Obesity and poverty...
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And in these instances... look up the Twinkie Diet. While it was just one guy (a professor at a University for diet and nutrition)... It still shows that even when all you have to eat is convience foods there is still no logical reason to be obese, except for laziness or simply not taking priority.0
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Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think ultimately greed is to blame. The people at the top don't want the world to be healthy. I know we can all make our own choices but they prey on weakness etc. You could then argue that you don't want the "government" controlling what we eat (even though they already do). World hunger and homelessness could probably be wiped out if we actually tried, but then who is we? someone else? someone in power? we couldn't possible make a difference? Think of smoking, it makes people sick and offers no benefit whatsoever. Here in Canada we have free health care and if you become sick from abusing your body then you are covered. It doesn't make very much sense to us but the the drug companies etc. love it.
In the end who is to blame for obese children? well it depends
Who is to blame for poverty, well that depends too...
Telling someone it is simply their fault that their children are fat is kind of a slap in the face unless you are going to offer some sort of help.0 -
I disagree for three reasons.
1. I know a family of 4 on food stamps, they receive $760 a month in food stamps. That is less than what I spend on food for my family of 4 and my kids are older.
2. I can think of a dozens fairly inexpensive meals/snacks/lunches.
3. It is calories in and calories out. I could lose weight on Mcdonalds if I wanted to.0 -
Is everyone saying that the people here who are obese are lazy?0
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Agreed. I was in a supermarket on my lunch break a few months ago. This store has an amazing food bar. Of course you pay by weight and it can get quite expensive. A couple in front of me paid 40.00 for their food with an EBT card.. I had nothing else to say. My mother could have gotten groceries for the week with that. But unfortunately we didn't qualify for Food stamps when I was a kid since she wouldn't quit her retail job to qualify.I know plenty of people who get food stamps and they have a hell of a lot more options that I do as I actually have to pay for my food. If they chose to they could buy fruits, vegetables, lean meats, etc but usually choose not to. Besides getting food stamps if they have kids under 5 they get WIC (fruit, veg, beans, juice, milk FREE) in addition to their stamps their kids get free lunch at school. Please don't try and blame this on anything other than personal responsibility. People get every opportunity to make good decisions0 -
I agree to some extent but we didn't have money growing up but to us McDonald's and Pizza were only eaten to celebrate a birthday or something (LOL), my dad said it is to expensive. My mom cooked all the meals, which included meat/chicken/fish, but that was only 1-2 times a week. We had vegetable soup, beans, lentils, fruit, milk, cereal, etc and we were so healthy. It was when I started making money that I would have more fast food and I gained weight. I am back to cooking my own meals and I come to the realization that I am also saving money.
You have to shop smart to get the right food at the right price. To do this you have to have some sort of information available to them which is what they lack. They go for the cheap and easy route and the kids learn from this and continue this pattern.0 -
I can make a meal for four from scratch with meat for about $5, you can't feed four for $5 at any fast food place. Veggies are not expensive, maybe organic is, but if it's either non-organic or over processed crap, veggies still win.
I have a real issue with the whole "it's too expensive to eat healthy" excuse. Yes, maybe a McDonalds salad cost more than a double cheeseburger, but if you make your salad at home and shop savvy, you should be able to eat pretty cheap.0 -
<---- college degree, under the povery line, lost 100lbs eating healthy
Thank you.I think it is offensive to equate poverty with lack of knowledge and education. Due to the struggling economy, even people with PhDs can be under the poverty line. I know of many intellectuals that have had trouble making ends meet. This type of thinking is stereotyping plain and simple and it is sadly quite prevalent in this entire thread.
On the other hand, I do agree with the interesting posts about this topic.
That aside, I really don't think the obesity problem has a single cause. It's a combination of our economy, lack of education in nutrition, change in our nations food supply(large companies selling boxed crap for dirt cheap and promising up that it's healthy), and our great American love of excess.
IMVHO the place to start is kids. They need to have mandatory nutrition classes and the old school home ec classes that teach basic skills of cooking healthy meals. These need to be continued from grade school through middle school through high school and make at least one nutrition course mandatory to college students. We require them to learn basic things like math, English, and biology... why shouldn't we expect them to learn how to take care of themselves with food. We need to have a working understanding how food effects our bodies and how to fuel it properly.
It's frightening to me to watch TV Shows like Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution and see kid who don't know where butter comes from.. or honey... or what an actual potato looks like.... how on earth can you hope to stop the obesity epidemic when the kids are CLUELESS on what food is?0 -
stop making EXCUSES and start making RESULTS. you are who YOU WANT TO BE. correlate that. slackers0
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I will probably be bashed for this... HOWEVER, I'm putting it out there anyway.
I agree with you 110% and have thought for a very long time, that we need to find a way to help the people we have living here in our own country, and slow down on helping the other countries. Part of the reason we are falling apart as a country is because we have stopped looking inside and taking care of our own. We MUST fix the things that are broken here before we can go to other countries and fix what is broken.
When we were a stronger country, helping others was vitally important, but in doing so we have lost sight of our own countries needs! I find it extremely sad.
Ok, I'm going to get off of my soap box, because I could go on forever with this :sad:
AMEN!
My thoughts are that there are so many reasons why we have such an obesity problem, it's almost impossible to narrow it down to just one thing. Yes, parents do a lot to encourage one type of eating or another. But, poverty is also a strong factor! I recently watched "Food Inc." that opened my eyes to this. A family was in the grocery store and the younger girl asked if they could buy some pears. How much do you get for a pound? The dad asked. You got 2 - maybe 3 if they were small pears. Nope, sorry to expensive the dad says. This family is forced to decide between healthy eating and the dads diabetic medication. If the dad doesn't get his medication, then they won't be making any more money but the way their eating I'm sure isn't helping his health issue . . . . a vicious circle. And we spend so much looking outside our own when we have HUGE problems within.
If they are really THAT strapped for cash though, it's not difficult to find a can of pears that was preserved in it's own juices (which means no HFCS or sugar substitutes) for $1, maybe a little more? They can still get pears just perhaps not fresh... or thay can wait until they are on sale because fruit and vegetables always go on sale. People just have to be willing to wait and look or buy frozen or buy canned. Or find a farm co-op where they can get produce fairly cheap (at least that's the case around here).0 -
While i agree with you to an extent i'll also argue that yes you can feed a family of 4 for less than $200 a week. My Weekly grocery budget is 1/2 of that! I buy in bulk and also shop seasonal fruits and veggies. I also shop at farmers markets and a little amish shop that is in my neighborhood. Its not just what they are eating, but the quantity.
That takes organization and planning. There also are few, if any, farmers' markets in economically depressed area.
I'm not saying that poor people have no responsibility for their kids' weight problems, but it's a whole lot easier if you have money and are depressed or distracted by the mere struggle to survive.0 -
I recently went to a talk about food security. Basically, it talked about the ability of people living at or below the poverty level, and their ability to feed themselves and their families. Basically what it came down to is this: if a single mother with two kids is on income assistance, she receives $1124 a month.
Now by my calculations:
Monthly income: $1124
Rent: $ 700
Basic telephone/cable: $ 65
Electricity: $ 40
Bus passes $ 122
So that leaves Mom with $197 a month to feed herself and her two kids. That's $49.25 a week, or $7.04 a day.
Where I live, 4 liters of milk costs $7.49. A 2 liter of pop is $1.49. A loaf of bread costs $2.29. A box of Kraft dinner is $1.09.
In this lecture, they talked about the "basic food basket" which is the food that one would need to buy to follow Canada's food guide for healthy eating. The cost in our community to meet those basic requirements was over $80/week for this hypothetical mother and her two kids.
If a parent is trying to feed herself and her kids on less than $50 a week, of course they are going to eat a lot of boxed meals.
Another issue addressed was the fact that in the cycle of poverty, a lot of times parents just don't know or have the skills to prepare healthful meals, so even though you might be able to cook a healthy stew for $15 that would feed them for three days, Mom might not have the skills or the tools available.
So my point, after this rather long post, is that I do agree, poverty certainly plays a role.
I don't know- I guess I see this as a bit of a stretch. Most places have renters assistance and/or less expensive apartments. There is also child daycare assistance available, and wic available (which is in addition to the income assistance (welfare). Also I am pretty sure food stamps is not the same program as welfare, so there is additional food to be accessed there. When I was on WIC as a new /young mother, they had vouchers for the farmers market. This is also assuming she is not working and getting an additional income and child support.
I remember when I was "low income". There are LOTS of programs available.0 -
While i agree with you to an extent i'll also argue that yes you can feed a family of 4 for less than $200 a week. My Weekly grocery budget is 1/2 of that! I buy in bulk and also shop seasonal fruits and veggies. I also shop at farmers markets and a little amish shop that is in my neighborhood. Its not just what they are eating, but the quantity.
Not getting into the debate but you have to HAVE the extra money to buy in bulk, so for the very poor it isn't an option.0 -
Agreed. I was in a supermarket on my lunch break a few months ago. This store has an amazing food bar. Of course you pay by weight and it can get quite expensive. A couple in front of me paid 40.00 for their food with an EBT card.. I had nothing else to say. My mother could have gotten groceries for the week with that. But unfortunately we didn't qualify for Food stamps when I was a kid since she wouldn't quit her retail job to qualify.I know plenty of people who get food stamps and they have a hell of a lot more options that I do as I actually have to pay for my food. If they chose to they could buy fruits, vegetables, lean meats, etc but usually choose not to. Besides getting food stamps if they have kids under 5 they get WIC (fruit, veg, beans, juice, milk FREE) in addition to their stamps their kids get free lunch at school. Please don't try and blame this on anything other than personal responsibility. People get every opportunity to make good decisions
My government professor told us a story once about when he was in the grocery store and this lady was complaining about not having enough food stamps to feed her and her kids for the month... what did she have in her basket? Steaks, produce that wasn't on sale, and other high ticket items... he took her back and taught her how to shop to make it last longer and to have more meals with it.0 -
While i agree with you to an extent i'll also argue that yes you can feed a family of 4 for less than $200 a week. My Weekly grocery budget is 1/2 of that! I buy in bulk and also shop seasonal fruits and veggies. I also shop at farmers markets and a little amish shop that is in my neighborhood. Its not just what they are eating, but the quantity.
Not getting into the debate but you have to HAVE the extra money to buy in bulk, so for the very poor it isn't an option.
I don't buy in bulk and I still spend about $100-$125 a week, I cook as if I'm cooking for 4, I have a toddler in diapers and three pets. I buy milk without the hormones and antibiotics (which costs about a dollar more) and I buy fresh and frozen produce when they are on sale... You can make the produce last an upwards of two weeks buy washing them in a vinegar and water bath. It's how I make two pounds of strawberries (that I buy for $5 or less) last for over two weeks.0 -
This makes sense for the US and Canada and other countries, but....
I live part of the year in the Dominican Republic. I rarely see over weight, fat, obese people there. The usual monthly income is around 200-300 dollars or less! But people aren't starving, they are a healthy weight.
Not to mention that Dominican people spend a huge part of their monthly income on things like their hair, cell phones and other things.
How do they do it?
Well...rice and beans is cheap and healthy. Veggies actually only cost a little bit less or the same as here in Canada in the summer time, but they eat them regularly. A chicken there is about three dollars. But when you look at the cost of living, that is still more than the 6 dollars I spend on a chicken here ( all things adjusted)
They very rarely crap or processed food. Those things are imported and very expensive.
Not to mention that most of my Dominican friends are a lot less active than we are....they all hate to walk anywhere and I have never seen one exercise on purpose.
The point is...you can be poor and eat properly, it is cheaper to eat properly if you eat the basics and stay away from processed food.
I have learned a lot from the Dominican people on how to live healthy, that is for sure.
You can be poor and not be fat. A bag of rice is a few dollars, a bag of beans is a few dollars...a chicken is a few dollars, basics that you actually cook into meals that are healthy, can be pretty cheap.
^^ This. It is poverty + our culture. Think of all the pictures of outdoor markets in other countries where you can buy free-range chicken, eggs, locally grown fruits and veggies. I am working in downtown Philly -plenty of poor and homeless in the underground subway area - and there are six Dunkin' Donuts in a .25 mile radius + numerous fast food establishments but you would be hard-pressed to find a crown of broccoli.0 -
Hi MFP's,
I am a candidate for a Master of Public Health with a specialty in epidemiology (epidemics,pandemics, chronic and infectious disease) and I have a background coordinating an NGO that dealt exclusively with food insecurity and improving the health and social outcomes of food insecure individuals. Poverty plays a significant role in both childhood and adult obesity.
This issues of food insecurity, food deserts (areas where fresh healthful food is inaccessible or otherwise unavailable) and obesity are intertwined in such a way that individuals without access may have to depend on boxed meals, fast food or other non-perishable options to ensure they are able to sufficiently feed themselves and their families until they can next access food. This is especially true for those who live in food deserts (which are typically populated by the poorest factions of the population). To make matters worse those who depend on food banks will often receive food that is filled with sodium, fat and preservatives and is often very calorie dense. Many food banks do not deal with fresh produce or perishable items and only collect or buy and distribute non-perishable goods. Often food banks could not maintain a stock of perishable foods even if they could collect those items because of the need for refrigeration of some products and because of the perishable nature of fruits and vegetables they may not be able to buy them in bulk or from farmers where they would more reasonably priced. On a regular basis food banks have to delegate funds, would they rather purchase X amount of canned soup or pasta and sauce or some significantly lesser amount of fresh vegetables, being able to feed more people will more likely win out over fresh more varied foods
Another underlying issue is that high fat high sugar foods, along with being inexpensive are also highly palatable and well advertised. As a result children will be more likely to want and ask for items like chips(crisps), boxed macaroni and cheese, Oreo's and other cookies, and sugary cereals like Fruit Loops, Cap't Crunch etc. that are loaded with refined sugar, refined flours, fat and overall are not very nutritious but are addictive. Parents and caregivers play a large role in childhood obesity because they provide and prepare food for young children and as a result they can choose whether or not to buy these items. However, parents may also feel that in giving their children these high fat, high sugar items that they are asking for they are making up for other areas where they may feel their children are being deprived (i.e. not being able to play in organized sports because of cost, not being able to spend much time with their children because of their busy work schedules, not being able to afford new toys, clothes etc.) This is not to say that that type of behavior is correct or that this is the case for all overweight children or parents living in poverty.
Put simply, we live in an environment where cheaper, easier more palatable food is less expensive than healthier alternatives, not to completely shift blame but we need to consider the roles played by the food industry and governments in the cost of food especially fresh food and the provision of (IMO) inadequate social assistance for those living in poverty. This is not to say that I necessarily think we should pour more tax dollars into welfare systems but perhaps subsidize the cost of fresh or fresh frozen healthful foods to make them more appealing and making regularly eating fresh unprocessed food financially feasible for the population as a whole. Though food deserts would need to be examined in order to improve livelihoods in those areas but overall if this were the case, perhaps we would not be facing such a widespread overweight and obesity epidemic in the west (the global north).
Many people living in poverty, even overweight and obese individuals are malnourished. I like to assume that all parents inevitably want the best for their children but simply may not be able to provide the foods that they need to have a healthy varied diet. So we can all assign "blame" as we see fit but as we look at the more holistic picture we may recognize that it is not as cut and dry as we may have thought. I really appreciate whoever posted this topic, its great that we have started the conversation about overweight and obesity and its contributing factors. Many of you have made really great and nuanced points that will contribute to a better understanding of the issue for all of us who read the forums. Keep up the great work MFP's!
Brit
Thank you for this. My close friend (who holds a degree in Sociology and recently finished her doctorate in Food Systems and Eating) and I have had this same conversation many times.0 -
If you spent $3 on a cheeseburger, fries and a coke at McDonald's you have gotten yourself a kid's meal which would have more calories, less nutrition than one of there $6 salads. I think what it boils down to is laziness. Yes it is easier to swing through a drive through, but if you buy a pound of hamburger meat ($3.50), some buns (usually can find on sale for $1 for 8), a sack of potatoes ($3) you can cook all of it yourself and have left over food for what it would cost to feed a family of four at McDonald's.
Well, I'll be dipped!
This little girl, A Yankee BTW, knows what the answer is,.....in a word.***** laziness!***** And she didn't even have to live in the South or read the New York Times or have some Elitest expert tell her the answer.
I'm not sure if you are attempting sarcasm or not, but allow me to respond. I lived with my mother in Texas when I was a child and she was *lazy* when it came to feeding her children. Half the time it was left up to us to combine whatever junk was in the cabinets to make food. I remember eating Trix cereal three meals a day for a few days straight because all I knew how to do was pour the milk. The few times I remember eating with my mother was when we were at the Mexican restaurant where she was a waitress. Making better choices and having work ethic have nothing to do with being from the north or the south or what your income is. It's about doing the best you can period. The money I make puts me just above the poverty line, so I don't qualify for any assistance. The food I buy is mostly healthy with the occasional pop-tart thrown in for mornings when I really don't feel like cooking. I enjoy cooking for my family because I know what I am putting in it and because it saves us money. You're right, I don't have to read the New York Times or listen to some elitist to do simple math. It's one of the joys of having some education and common sense.0 -
I addressed the title of the thread. And the reality is that one can still eat poorly and not get overweight or obese since it's calorie expenditure that makes the difference.If poverty was the cause of obesity, then 3rd would countries should be having the same issues.
While some of the stats are legit, you would think that making less and having less meant one would eat less. Unfortunately that's usually not the case. And lots of people would rather have "fun" stuff like computers and phones to spend their money on rather than actual whole food.
Before the cell phone boom (I'm not against them), how did families keep in touch or safe if they were away from each other? What's my point? Lots of families have phones and pay well over $150 a month for them rather than actual food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
No, sorry, but in third world countries there is an overall lack of food. No one is saying the people in poverty starve. They don't. They eat poorly. I have a very tight budget as a single mother. I have had to coupon clip and scrimp to feed my family. I can tell you without a doubt there have been times when I have bought things that I would not normally eat just to make sure my children have full bellies. As an example I had coupons for frozen family dinners and it made them free. I was broke so I bought it, or rather got if for free. I have learned how to shop with sales and use coupons to cook healthy meals however, it is not always that simple. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. In the last 5years food cost has increased while incomes have not, people sometimes just don't have enough.
Our fattest states just happen to be ones where the incomes are lower so the correlation of obese overweight people and coincide.
There always will be poverty somewhere. It's been this way since the beginning of man. How it's handled will dictate the outcome of whom is experiencing it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I recently went to a talk about food security. Basically, it talked about the ability of people living at or below the poverty level, and their ability to feed themselves and their families. Basically what it came down to is this: if a single mother with two kids is on income assistance, she receives $1124 a month.
Now by my calculations:
Monthly income: $1124
Rent: $ 700
Basic telephone/cable: $ 65
Electricity: $ 40
Bus passes $ 122
So that leaves Mom with $197 a month to feed herself and her two kids. That's $49.25 a week, or $7.04 a day.
Where I live, 4 liters of milk costs $7.49. A 2 liter of pop is $1.49. A loaf of bread costs $2.29. A box of Kraft dinner is $1.09.
In this lecture, they talked about the "basic food basket" which is the food that one would need to buy to follow Canada's food guide for healthy eating. The cost in our community to meet those basic requirements was over $80/week for this hypothetical mother and her two kids.
If a parent is trying to feed herself and her kids on less than $50 a week, of course they are going to eat a lot of boxed meals.
Another issue addressed was the fact that in the cycle of poverty, a lot of times parents just don't know or have the skills to prepare healthful meals, so even though you might be able to cook a healthy stew for $15 that would feed them for three days, Mom might not have the skills or the tools available.
So my point, after this rather long post, is that I do agree, poverty certainly plays a role.
Why isn't this mom getting a job, instead?0
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