Eat more calories and lose weight- What is really happening

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  • VBnotbitter
    VBnotbitter Posts: 820 Member
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    Now let's look at the average MFP user
    1. Probably not weighing out all foods. Estimates intake quite a bit.
    2. May dine out at a restaurant or casserole dishes that are hard to estimate
    3. May skip days or meals and have gaps in data from logging
    4. May not be aware of extra calories in food, or simply forget to add certain ingredients
    5. May not be accurately recording exercise (Choosing wrong intensity or including warm up and cool down time in workout)

    This makes so much sense to me. When I subscribe to a food delivery company who provide the whole days food to your set number of calories I loose weight every time. When I try to do it myself, however accurate I think I am being, I either don't loose or I gain.

    The problem is that having all your meals delivered is expensive and unsustainable, so I guess being more honest in tracking is the answer
  • iamluce
    iamluce Posts: 64 Member
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    Thanks Tony. The eat more crowd here was started by some people who wanted to promote their website by informing those that ate at 1200 cals, that they could eat more and still lose, but it obviously got out of hand. I agree, if your not losing weight, you simply are eating too much. I like the point you bring in about binge eating because you could eat 600 cals on Monday but eat it all back on Friday!

    oh you are wrong

    you are very very very wrong

    i don't normally binge, and when it does happen, it's always within my calorie allowance. i ate 1200 or less consistently for 6 months while exercising religiously 5 times a week, doing strength and cardio, plus walking A LOT. there was DEFINITELY a huge deficit going.

    even if i had been miscalculating my portions (which is unlikely because i always pick the highest calorie counts on items here and i don't accurately weigh food but i've got an estimate because i buy my food by weight. so even if i don't know how much a potato is, i know that i got 500 grams of potatos and have potatoes, so they can't be more than 100-150 each) i would still have been creating a deficit. i was eating the minimum a person should + exercising intensely more than 2 hours a day.

    i still didn't lose A POUND, or an inch. absolutely nothing changed, except i went a little bit insane.

    i got checked to see if there was something wrong with my metabolism. guess what? there wasn't.

    i wasn't losing because i wasn't eating enough. if you don't eat enough your body will hold on to the fat. the examples OP gave of people eating low cal are extreme cases and not ideals or role models.

    if you eat too much, you gain weight. if you eat too little, you mantain. you need to find a balance and create a proper healthy, mantainable deficit. that's it.
  • squirrelzzrule22
    squirrelzzrule22 Posts: 640 Member
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    I agree with you so so much. I've been thinking this for a while and I'm glad someone finally said it!!
  • Lisa1971
    Lisa1971 Posts: 3,069 Member
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    Do you have a link to that? Very interesting and this is SO ME!!!!!!
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    Increasing calories in (eating more) can result in increasing calories out (generally moving more - NEPA, less efficiency of movement and higher energy cost of processing food - TEF)

    This, along with more stringent focus on calories, less unconscious and not logged eating due to decreased feeling of deprivation therefore can result in a greater deficit than if calories in were lower.

    TDEE is not static.

    Find your calorie sweet spot: low enough that it creates fat loss but not so low it causes fat loss to slow unnecessarily.
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    Incidentally, this is one of the best reviews of what is really going on with metabolic slowdown from dieting (in reality falling activity levels are the biggest danger it seems...)

    http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=415
  • bunnymum150
    bunnymum150 Posts: 311
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    someone asked about "refeed" did I miss a response? I am thinking that it means upping your calories for some days??? thanks
  • astrampe
    astrampe Posts: 2,169 Member
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    Thanks for re-posting information already on the forums.

    It's not like there aren't people coming to this site asking for help and guidance daily or anything. Some people aren't as good as you at sorting things out.
    Well, his last line of arrogance makes me think he believes he a sentient guru about all things nutrition like he knows things that haven't been previously discussed.

    So glad the OP is not my trainer - if all the arrogant crap he posted is what he sells to paying clients it's almost criminal.....
  • englishjewel
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    Please explain refeed
  • juliegrey1
    juliegrey1 Posts: 202 Member
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    I just wonder amid all the science and you would know an awful lot more than me.If you eat clean home prepared food cooked from scratch nothing from packets and tins ect,and just ate enough to satisfy hunger would you really need all the science?I think eat well and move more sounds very simplistic I know but it does work!:smile:
  • peachfigs
    peachfigs Posts: 831 Member
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    bump
  • Lyadeia
    Lyadeia Posts: 4,603 Member
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    Hey, y'all. I just wanted to make this post to shed some light from my experience as a private practice RD specializing in weight loss on a concept I see posted so often in these forums:

    "Starvation Mode"

    How is it that people who can't lose weight on say... 1500 calories, drop to 1200 calories and still don't lose weight? Or even yet, someone who is eating 1000 calories increases their intake up to 1400 and they start losing weight. How does this happen?

    First, let's talk about some inconsistencies in the whole calorie counting process:
    1. Values for foods in MFP- caloric variance in foods with the same name
    2. Portion size estimations from user of MFP- there can even be variance when using measuring cups. Food scales are the most accurate.
    3. Variance in reported caloric value from restaurants
    4. Variance in the BMR TDEE and calories burned from exercise- these are all equations and estimations anyways

    So right there, you have a lot of variance. We can safely assume that foods entered in MFP may have some inaccuracies.

    Now let's look at the average MFP user
    1. Probably not weighing out all foods. Estimates intake quite a bit.
    2. May dine out at a restaurant or casserole dishes that are hard to estimate
    3. May skip days or meals and have gaps in data from logging
    4. May not be aware of extra calories in food, or simply forget to add certain ingredients
    5. May not be accurately recording exercise (Choosing wrong intensity or including warm up and cool down time in workout)

    Consider some special populations and individuals who are eating VERY low calorie diets, and are losing weight
    - prisoners of war
    - people with GI or absorption issues (crohn's disease, etc)
    - bariatric surgery patients
    - medically supervised protein sparing modified fasts
    ... all these individuals are on severely restricted calories and still lose weight

    The ONLY way to sustain a fat loss is to sustain a caloric deficit: big or small

    So here's my 2 cents on what really happens in "starvation mode"

    Scenario A: Individual cuts calories and doesn't lose any weight
    Possible reasons:
    1. general inconsistencies in tracking (examples above) means the original or new calorie values were inaccurate to begin with.
    2. this individual becomes less physically active after cutting calories
    3. individual binges more severely or often from feeling overly restricted
    4. individual is unaware of "sneaking" foods or bigger portion sizes

    Scenario B: Individual eats more and loses weight
    1. Greater accuracy is achieved as person consumes more, he or she pays more attention to accurate portion sizes
    2. Individual begins exercising more
    3. Eats more simple, single ingredient foods, which are usually easier to track and measure

    The take home point is that to achieve a weight loss, you have to sustain a deficit. There's no other way to do it. So to the 200 pound person only eating 1,000 calories and not losing weight, I would say, your 1,000 calories is probably a misestimation OR you are indeed eating 1,000 calories until you binge and eat back your deficit. (Or you need to get your thyroid checked, but this post is in regards to individuals with normally functioning thyroids).

    Bring on the flame posts and naysayers! My body is ready!

    :laugh:

    Forgot Scenario C, or which I am a part of...

    Person eats more and loses weight:

    --Has always meticulously weighed everything and tracked everything both before and after eating more calories.
    --Still exercises the same after eating more to include 4 weight training and 2 cardio sessions per week while getting in at least 10,000 steps daily
    --Hasn't changed what they ate because dammit, pizza and cheesecake taste good.

    Your scenarios you a lot of "may" in the statements. And they DO NOT represent all MFP users, and this one is insulted by your insinuations.

    I was on a plateau eating at 1500 calories, and then starting losing again once I increased to 1800 calories. I am now smaller, leaner, and tighter. You can go on and on about what you think I may have done wrong before, but by your OP, you'd be completely wrong.

    Have a nice day. :drinker:
  • floppybackend
    floppybackend Posts: 52 Member
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    4. Variance in the BMR TDEE and calories burned from exercise- these are all equations and estimations anyways

    Agree, ref to a recent post of over estimation of calorie burnt. Too many work out 100% for 60mins which is pretty impossible if you are overweight and unfit. Warm up, cool down, breaks, slowing could mean that actual workout would be more 20 - 30 mins. Hence calorie burnt could be more 180 not 800!!!
  • marciebrian
    marciebrian Posts: 853 Member
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    this posting is much too logical... thank you Tony for a moment of sanity... so sick of reading the whole starvation mode crap.:flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:
  • baptiste565
    baptiste565 Posts: 590 Member
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    thank you for being smart. there is so much misinformation in these forums.
  • sweetzoejane
    sweetzoejane Posts: 153 Member
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    You are likely describing a fairly high number of people on this site. I would imagine a lot of people are not tracking food and exercise calories accurately. However, there are a lot of people who are doing all of the right things, and are hungry, tired, have mood swings, aren't losing fat (or any weight at all), and are ready to give up.

    You fail completely at understanding the type of person so desperate to lose weight and so scared of food that they would eat <1200 calories a day. And you therefore completely don't understand the most important reasons for "eating more to lose more" - sanity, sustainability, and teaching women to take up space, eat like a normal human beings, and stop obessesive dieting behaviors.

    You do not fix someone's mind and behaviors by telling them to get a food scale and heart rate monitor and start tracking every single day for the next year.
  • showey27
    showey27 Posts: 8 Member
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    Ok - so I have been at this for about a month...calorie goal is 1424 per day. I exercise 3-5 days per week. I have lost 3 pounds. Now after reading the TDEE stuff on this thread, it looks as if I must get 1728 calories per day. So this is an increase of 300 calories a day. Since I have been under that mark for the last month, shouldn't I have lost more since my input/output is far different? I truly am scared to death to eat more calories as my brain has been trained from an early age to eat less. I don't feel hungry and through the day try to get a snack in but still find I have about 1/3 of my calories left to eat after 4:00 pm. Please advise. Thank you
  • showey27
    showey27 Posts: 8 Member
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    exactly! AND that by telling them to eat more simply means to them that they will gain more weight which means more impossible to lose. I am one of those SCARED people! Thank you! Please help!
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Increasing calories in (eating more) can result in increasing calories out (generally moving more - NEPA, less efficiency of movement and higher energy cost of processing food - TEF)

    This, along with more stringent focus on calories, less unconscious and not logged eating due to decreased feeling of deprivation therefore can result in a greater deficit than if calories in were lower.

    TDEE is not static.

    Find your calorie sweet spot: low enough that it creates fat loss but not so low it causes fat loss to slow unnecessarily.

    ^^this

    ETA: and not so low as to risk deficiencies.
  • WinnerVictorious
    WinnerVictorious Posts: 4,735 Member
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    I just wonder amid all the science and you would know an awful lot more than me.If you eat clean home prepared food cooked from scratch nothing from packets and tins ect,and just ate enough to satisfy hunger would you really need all the science?I think eat well and move more sounds very simplistic I know but it does work!:smile:

    free your mind of all of this "clean" nonsense. when it comes to weight loss, it's all about the energy equation.

    1 "clean" calorie = 1 "dirty" calorie

    it's simply a measure of the energy in food.

    you can get extremely fat eating nothing but "clean" food to excess. you can get extremely skinny eating nothing but "dirty" food on a calorie deficit.

    food is simply fuel. when it comes to weight loss, where that fuel comes from is irrelevant. nutrition is a different matter, but nutrition is not weight loss.