Still think 'eating organic' isn't worth it?
Replies
-
i love the free range argument, it really makes my day,
if we are worried about a chickens welfare, in terms of its living environment and quality of life, surely kidnapping its children everyday is the worst thing we can do? if chickens are emotional enough to be worried about sunshine then surely they would have a bond with there undeveloped embryo?
i mean, is it just me or is child abduction awful whether you live in a nice house or a crappy shack?
Maybe you got a point, but animals do take other animals eggs to eat. That is my justification.
I need the nutrients from that egg.
The abuse to animals is something we do not have to do0 -
This is a court finding about a farmer who couldn't figure out that inhaling herbicide might be a bad idea. This has nothing to do with the safety of our food.
People can talk about this until they're blue in the face, and they do, but scientific studies have not shown a consistent or significant safety or nutrition benefit from Organic food.
That's the completely inescapable bottom line.0 -
There's a whole lot of gray area between organic and inhaled pesticides, you know.0
-
i love the free range argument, it really makes my day,
if we are worried about a chickens welfare, in terms of its living environment and quality of life, surely kidnapping its children everyday is the worst thing we can do? if chickens are emotional enough to be worried about sunshine then surely they would have a bond with there undeveloped embryo?
i mean, is it just me or is child abduction awful whether you live in a nice house or a crappy shack?
No, it's more like talking it's periods or some other wacky vegan argument I heard once on the internets.
Repeat after me: Chickens are not people.
I am not a vegan, I am an omnivoric person.
My favorite food in the world is a bloody rib eye steak.
I am just saying respect the animal.0 -
i love the free range argument, it really makes my day,
if we are worried about a chickens welfare, in terms of its living environment and quality of life, surely kidnapping its children everyday is the worst thing we can do? if chickens are emotional enough to be worried about sunshine then surely they would have a bond with there undeveloped embryo?
i mean, is it just me or is child abduction awful whether you live in a nice house or a crappy shack?
No, it's more like talking it's periods or some other wacky vegan argument I heard once on the internets.
Repeat after me: Chickens are not people.
I am not a vegan, I am an omnivoric person.
My favorite food in the world is a bloody rib eye steak.
I am just saying respect the animal.
Why do you assume that people on this thread don't? It was a somewhat inflammatory comment.0 -
i love the free range argument, it really makes my day,
if we are worried about a chickens welfare, in terms of its living environment and quality of life, surely kidnapping its children everyday is the worst thing we can do? if chickens are emotional enough to be worried about sunshine then surely they would have a bond with there undeveloped embryo?
i mean, is it just me or is child abduction awful whether you live in a nice house or a crappy shack?
No, it's more like talking it's periods or some other wacky vegan argument I heard once on the internets.
Repeat after me: Chickens are not people.
I am not a vegan, I am an omnivoric person.
My favorite food in the world is a bloody rib eye steak.
I am just saying respect the animal.
Why do you assume that people on this thread don't? It was a somewhat inflammatory comment.
well he was referring to my free range arguement0 -
i love the free range argument, it really makes my day,
if we are worried about a chickens welfare, in terms of its living environment and quality of life, surely kidnapping its children everyday is the worst thing we can do? if chickens are emotional enough to be worried about sunshine then surely they would have a bond with there undeveloped embryo?
i mean, is it just me or is child abduction awful whether you live in a nice house or a crappy shack?
No, it's more like talking it's periods or some other wacky vegan argument I heard once on the internets.
Repeat after me: Chickens are not people.
I am not a vegan, I am an omnivoric person.
My favorite food in the world is a bloody rib eye steak.
I am just saying respect the animal.
Why do you assume that people on this thread don't? It was a somewhat inflammatory comment.
well he was referring to my free range arguement
Oh, okay then.0 -
i love the free range argument, it really makes my day,
if we are worried about a chickens welfare, in terms of its living environment and quality of life, surely kidnapping its children everyday is the worst thing we can do? if chickens are emotional enough to be worried about sunshine then surely they would have a bond with there undeveloped embryo?
i mean, is it just me or is child abduction awful whether you live in a nice house or a crappy shack?
Maybe you got a point, but animals do take other animals eggs to eat. That is my justification.
I need the nutrients from that egg.
The abuse to animals is something we do not have to do
Whoa, I missed the crazy in this post. Kidnapping their children? Emotional enough to worry about sunshine. The PETAnthropomorphizing is deep!
Their point is that they're crazy and left logic and rationale at the door. Animals eat eggs all the time, even animals we've never thought do it. I watched a deer eat a robin's egg once. It was interesting. A deer.0 -
are you going to pay for my groceries? i buy organic when i can, but sometimes it just too expensive.
Check your local farmer's markets, also, see what you can grow at home. Sometimes just a few little things help in the big picture. The one good thing is that organic foods are starting to really come down in price. A lot of times fruits and veggies are less than 50 cents more per kg/lb
Products in a farmer's market are not necessarily organic. In fact, most small farms can't afford to grow organically or afford the costly testing to prove they do.0 -
the fck? makes me wonder if the deer knew it was an egg or a mushroomi love the free range argument, it really makes my day,
if we are worried about a chickens welfare, in terms of its living environment and quality of life, surely kidnapping its children everyday is the worst thing we can do? if chickens are emotional enough to be worried about sunshine then surely they would have a bond with there undeveloped embryo?
i mean, is it just me or is child abduction awful whether you live in a nice house or a crappy shack?
Maybe you got a point, but animals do take other animals eggs to eat. That is my justification.
I need the nutrients from that egg.
The abuse to animals is something we do not have to do
Whoa, I missed the crazy in this post. Kidnapping their children? Emotional enough to worry about sunshine. The PETAnthropomorphizing is deep!
Their point is that they're crazy and left logic and rationale at the door. Animals eat eggs all the time, even animals we've never thought do it. I watched a deer eat a robin's egg once. It was interesting. A deer.0 -
are you going to pay for my groceries? i buy organic when i can, but sometimes it just too expensive.
Check your local farmer's markets, also, see what you can grow at home. Sometimes just a few little things help in the big picture. The one good thing is that organic foods are starting to really come down in price. A lot of times fruits and veggies are less than 50 cents more per kg/lb
Products in a farmer's market are not necessarily organic. In fact, most small farms can't afford to grow organically or afford the costly testing to prove they do.
and with some rare exceptions, they price as a commodity, again, leaving "organic" food only for the affluents.
As it should be of course, the rest can eat cake.
0 -
the fck? makes me wonder if the deer knew it was an egg or a mushroom
An animal researcher colleague of mine showed me a video of a deer eating a squirrel once. Stomped it until it stopped moving and then went to town. I was dumbfounded. Apparently, when there is a calcium deficiency, they'll forage for non-standard foods.0 -
Monsanto is responsible for a lot of crap. Those bast'ds have pretty much ruined/destroyed everything they've touched.
While I don't disagree with this, there is a pretty big difference in the amount one would inhale while cleaning a piece of equipment used to spread a chemical and the amount that would be found on a veg/fruit sprayed with it.0 -
i love the free range argument, it really makes my day,
if we are worried about a chickens welfare, in terms of its living environment and quality of life, surely kidnapping its children everyday is the worst thing we can do? if chickens are emotional enough to be worried about sunshine then surely they would have a bond with there undeveloped embryo?
i mean, is it just me or is child abduction awful whether you live in a nice house or a crappy shack?
The chicken eggs we eat aren't fertilized. Otherwise there would be a baby chicken in it, rather than just egg yolk.
Us women lose our eggs every month as well and I can tell you I couldn't care less if you took that away from me. It would be kinda gross, but I wouldn't have an emotional bond with it.0 -
are you going to pay for my groceries? i buy organic when i can, but sometimes it just too expensive.
what a crazy thing to say, we are all in the same boat trying to afford the best we can for our families. You should hit up Monsanto to pay for your groceries since they are working so hard to poison teh population in order to make money!
Seriously though: look in to a CSA, For $650 dollars, I get 6-8 months worth of veggies.... I just finished the organic veggies I put up last fall.0 -
are you going to pay for my groceries? i buy organic when i can, but sometimes it just too expensive.
what a crazy thing to say, we are all in the same boat trying to afford the best we can for our families. You should hit up Monsanto to pay for your groceries since they are working so hard to poison teh population in order to make money!
Seriously though: look in to a CSA, For $650 dollars, I get 6-8 months worth of veggies.... I just finished the organic veggies I put up last fall.
That's a great idea, if I can't afford it...I'll sue somebody until I can!!!0 -
I respect the right of others to eat organic, but it isn't for me.
i don't understand how anyone could say that eating stuff grown from the earth in the way it's been done for thousands of years "isn't for them" in comparison to supporting mega-corps like Monsanto using genetically modified organisms, pesticides, and invasive gene therapy. 1 hour of research into the disgusting business practices of Monsanto should scare anyone.
the only reason organic is more expensive is because corps like Monsanto have a stranglehold on big farm.
we shouldn't be calling naturally grown food 'organic'. It's 'normal'. Everything else should get stuck with a name.
Even the label 'organic' has been co-opted by big business thanks to the US gov't. I know many small farmers in my area that have always been organic... but can't afford the massive fees it can take to now 'prove' you're organic. Those fees and other obstacles were put in place by lobbyists working for Monsanto and other mega-corps.
THIS. Thank you! I couldn't have said it better.
this times a million!0 -
Genuine question: wouldn't the organic crops be "contaminated" with pesticides as well, because it is in all the water, air and soil already?0
-
I can't afford to buy strictly organic, we have seven in our family and a very limited budget. But our garden is huge this year and I'm not spraying anything with pesticides. I'm slowly building a seed collection of heirloom seeds, so I can keep my own seeds each year.
All we can do is the best we can.
0 -
i love the free range argument, it really makes my day,
if we are worried about a chickens welfare, in terms of its living environment and quality of life, surely kidnapping its children everyday is the worst thing we can do? if chickens are emotional enough to be worried about sunshine then surely they would have a bond with there undeveloped embryo?
i mean, is it just me or is child abduction awful whether you live in a nice house or a crappy shack?
you should do some reading on the benefits of free range/pastured... I used to think the same thing... it is not about keeping the animal happy, it is about the animal getting access to the diet and sun light it should have in nature. Chicken are omnivoures and in nature eat insects high in protein.... when fed a grain diet, the eggs (and chicken) is significantntly less nutricious. Corn and grain in general is a fairly non-nutritive filler.0 -
The article has nothing to do with organic food.
Organic farming is too inefficient to feed the population.
:drinker: THIS!!!!
For the people eating organic, what are your long term goals to prevent famine?0 -
are you going to pay for my groceries? i buy organic when i can, but sometimes it just too expensive.
what a crazy thing to say, we are all in the same boat trying to afford the best we can for our families. You should hit up Monsanto to pay for your groceries since they are working so hard to poison teh population in order to make money!
Seriously though: look in to a CSA, For $650 dollars, I get 6-8 months worth of veggies.... I just finished the organic veggies I put up last fall.
That's a great idea, if I can't afford it...I'll sue somebody until I can!!!
it makes more sense to hold the entity causing the problem accountable than to ask some random person sharing info on a chat board to support you.0 -
true but you'd probably be eating less of it..Genuine question: wouldn't the organic crops be "contaminated" with pesticides as well, because it is in all the water, air and soil already?
for me the takeaway from this is not necessarily to buy all organic products, but to work towards a situation where i can grow my own stuff as much as possible.
as others have noted, organic farming for the masses is unsustainable unless we're talking about killing off a lot of the population ahead of time so there are less mouths to feed in that fashion.
also part of me is only with the "local grown movement" (and it's really big here in the bay area) when the ingredients are tasty. i've had far too many local grown and raised crap recently that tastes bland and flavorless.0 -
Couple of things worth thinking about:
First without actually reading the ruling (I just read the article) it's unclear what Monsanto was found guilty of. It appears they were found guilty of lousy labeling; insufficient warnings and instruction about use of a toxic product, so the guy used it incorrectly and successfully sued.
Does make one wonder why a farmer is applying pesticides without protection, labeling or not, but OK. I'm sorry he has suffered.
Second, with regard to the product itself, it looks lousy, but the whole thing about "setting acceptable limits to zero" also happens when the data isn't available to ascertain what the long term effects might be, so the limits are set at zero to "err" on the conservative side. Looks like this stuff is pretty nasty at any rate, but then again, it is a POISON.
Third, the whole argument about whether or not to buy organic food can only take place in a post-agrarian civilization where produce is now mass produced, mass transported, and mass distributed. THAT only happens because of Monsanto (and its ilk) who have worked with what is collectively called "Big Agra" to kill pests and promote all kinds of crazy growth; the end result of which is the ability to commoditize food and deliver by means of a very efficient logistics chain. Without that chain we'd be back to local growers growing only what the climate and soil in their areas will produce, and with the "forces of nature" - and then people would be complaining about why the government isn't stepping in to feed them when drought strikes (as it has for the past 6 years in Texas) or insects run amok, and crops fail.
All that said - I buy, grow and eat organic whenever possible; I am not a fan of poisons in my food chain (no matter whether they're coming from the chemical industry or from "naturally occurring" poison) and I try to buy local. I think lots of folks have become extremely spoiled by the abundance of food in some places in the world and wouldn't have a clue what to do if the whole supply chain went away - myself included. This is not a defense of Monsanto, bad labeling, or pesticides; it's just a statement that it's a pretty complex situation that folks seem to want to boil down to "good guys" and "bad guys" and it ain't that simple.0 -
I respect the right of others to eat organic, but it isn't for me.
i don't understand how anyone could say that eating stuff grown from the earth in the way it's been done for thousands of years "isn't for them" in comparison to supporting mega-corps like Monsanto using genetically modified organisms, pesticides, and invasive gene therapy. 1 hour of research into the disgusting business practices of Monsanto should scare anyone.
the only reason organic is more expensive is because corps like Monsanto have a stranglehold on big farm.
we shouldn't be calling naturally grown food 'organic'. It's 'normal'. Everything else should get stuck with a name.
Even the label 'organic' has been co-opted by big business thanks to the US gov't. I know many small farmers in my area that have always been organic... but can't afford the massive fees it can take to now 'prove' you're organic. Those fees and other obstacles were put in place by lobbyists working for Monsanto and other mega-corps.
THIS. Thank you! I couldn't have said it better.
this times a million!
So, you all think anyone should be able to label their produce as organic, with no checks to see if it's true? Yeah, the honor system is always best in the food industry. :huh:0 -
Worth it to me. Can I afford it 100% of the time? no. So I belong to a CSA, grow some herbs/veggies, shop at farmer's markets and then buy the rest at the grocery store. Having the Dirty Dozen list helps to prioritize on which items I'll fork out the extra cash for organic.
To me, feeding myself and my family the highest quality food possible is a top priority. So is supporting local farms and farmers and keeping toxic chemicals out of the soil and water supply. I can't think of anything more important. Trade off, we don't have cable or new cars and I buy most of our clothes from thrift stores. I'm OK with that.0 -
I find it interesting that so many folks are trusting the government agency (the same one they say is subject to the whims of megacorps like Monsanto) to label and regulate our "organic" food?
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5068682
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2009-07-03/news/36836942_1_organic-label-organic-products-usda-organic
I don't like the idea of pesticides/chemicals in my food or GMO being the norm. But I also sure as hell don't trust the USDA to take on this task! And no...I'm not a wingnut...or maybe I am. 0 -
Why do people act like organic farmers don't use pesticides? They absolutely do.0
-
Why do people act like organic farmers don't use pesticides? They absolutely do.
The obvious answer seems the type of pesticides.0 -
Here's a, partial, list of substances allowed by the USDA to be used on food and still be labeled "Organic", which includes pesticides:
(a) As algicide, disinfectants, and sanitizer, including irrigation system cleaning systems.
(1) Alcohols.
(i) Ethanol.
(ii) Isopropanol.
(2) Chlorine materials—For pre-harvest use, residual chlorine levels in the water in direct crop contact or as water from cleaning irrigation systems applied to soil must not exceed the maximum residual disinfectant limit under the Safe Drinking Water Act, except that chlorine products may be used in edible sprout production according to EPA label directions.
(i) Calcium hypochlorite.
(ii) Chlorine dioxide.
(iii) Sodium hypochlorite.
(3) Copper sulfate—for use as an algicide in aquatic rice systems, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to those which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent.
(4) Hydrogen peroxide.
(5) Ozone gas—for use as an irrigation system cleaner only.
(6) Peracetic acid—for use in disinfecting equipment, seed, and asexually propagated planting material.
(7) Soap-based algicide/demossers.
(8) Sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate (CAS #-15630-89-4)—Federal law restricts the use of this substance in food crop production to approved food uses identified on the product label.
(b) As herbicides, weed barriers, as applicable.
(1) Herbicides, soap-based—for use in farmstead maintenance (roadways, ditches, right of ways, building perimeters) and ornamental crops.
(2) Mulches.
(i) Newspaper or other recycled paper, without glossy or colored inks.
(ii) Plastic mulch and covers (petroleum-based other than polyvinyl chloride (PVC)).
(c) As compost feedstocks—Newspapers or other recycled paper, without glossy or colored inks.
(d) As animal repellents—Soaps, ammonium—for use as a large animal repellant only, no contact with soil or edible portion of crop.
(e) As insecticides (including acaricides or mite control).
(1) Ammonium carbonate—for use as bait in insect traps only, no direct contact with crop or soil.
(2) Aqueous potassium silicate (CAS #-1312-76-1)—the silica, used in the manufacture of potassium silicate, must be sourced from naturally occurring sand.
(3) Boric acid—structural pest control, no direct contact with organic food or crops.
(4) Copper sulfate—for use as tadpole shrimp control in aquatic rice production, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to levels which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent.
(5) Elemental sulfur.
(6) Lime sulfur—including calcium polysulfide.
(7) Oils, horticultural—narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils.
(8) Soaps, insecticidal.
(9) Sticky traps/barriers.
(10) Sucrose octanoate esters (CAS #s—42922-74-7; 58064-47-4)—in accordance with approved labeling.
(f) As insect management. Pheromones.
(g) As rodenticides. Vitamin D3 .
(h) As slug or snail bait. Ferric phosphate (CAS # 10045-86-0).
(i) As plant disease control.
(1) Aqueous potassium silicate (CAS #-1312-76-1)—the silica, used in the manufacture of potassium silicate, must be sourced from naturally occurring sand.
(2) Coppers, fixed—copper hydroxide, copper oxide, copper oxychloride, includes products exempted from EPA tolerance, Provided, That, copper-based materials must be used in a manner that minimizes accumulation in the soil and shall not be used as herbicides.
(3) Copper sulfate—Substance must be used in a manner that minimizes accumulation of copper in the soil.
(4) Hydrated lime.
(5) Hydrogen peroxide.
(6) Lime sulfur.
(7) Oils, horticultural, narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils.
(8) Peracetic acid—for use to control fire blight bacteria.
(9) Potassium bicarbonate.
(10) Elemental sulfur.
(11) Streptomycin, for fire blight control in apples and pears only until October 21, 2014.
(12) Tetracycline, for fire blight control in apples and pears only until October 21, 2014.
(j) As plant or soil amendments.
(1) Aquatic plant extracts (other than hydrolyzed)—Extraction process is limited to the use of potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide; solvent amount used is limited to that amount necessary for extraction.
(2) Elemental sulfur.
(3) Humic acids—naturally occurring deposits, water and alkali extracts only.
(4) Lignin sulfonate—chelating agent, dust suppressant.
(5) Magnesium sulfate—allowed with a documented soil deficiency.
(6) Micronutrients—not to be used as a defoliant, herbicide, or desiccant. Those made from nitrates or chlorides are not allowed. Soil deficiency must be documented by testing.
(i) Soluble boron products.
(ii) Sulfates, carbonates, oxides, or silicates of zinc, copper, iron, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, and cobalt.
(7) Liquid fish products—can be pH adjusted with sulfuric, citric or phosphoric acid. The amount of acid used shall not exceed the minimum needed to lower the pH to 3.5.
(8) Vitamins, B1 , C, and E.
(9) Sulfurous acid (CAS # 7782-99-2) for on-farm generation of substance utilizing 99% purity elemental sulfur per paragraph (j)(2) of this section.
(k) As plant growth regulators. Ethylene gas—for regulation of pineapple flowering.
(l) As floating agents in postharvest handling.
(1) Lignin sulfonate.
(2) Sodium silicate—for tree fruit and fiber processing.
(m) As synthetic inert ingredients as classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), for use with nonsynthetic substances or synthetic substances listed in this section and used as an active pesticide ingredient in accordance with any limitations on the use of such substances.
(1) EPA List 4—Inerts of Minimal Concern.
(2) EPA List 3—Inerts of unknown toxicity—for use only in passive pheromone dispensers.
(n) Seed preparations. Hydrogen chloride (CAS # 7647-01-0)—for delinting cotton seed for planting.
(o) As production aids. Microcrystalline cheesewax (CAS #'s 64742-42-3, 8009-03-08, and 8002-74-2)-for use in log grown mushroom production. Must be made without either ethylene-propylene co-polymer or synthetic colors.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=08ed863d93110c01cb0728f8070a052f&rgn=div8&view=text&node=7:3.1.1.9.32.7.354.2&idno=70
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 176K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.6K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions