21 day 5000 calorie challenge: debunking the calorie myth?

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  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
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    Just had a rather long discussion on twitter with the person doing the experiment. His point seems to be that the calorie is not the best measure of energy as it applies to the human body and he wants to improve on it. I pointed out that by changing his macros from 30% carbs to 10%, he was skewing the data because he would be losing water weight at the same time gaining muscle/fat. His take was that while HE differentiated between water weight and “real” weight, a CALORIE does not. I think the point is specious relative to real weight gain, but have to grant him that the fact that by changing the macro-nutrient %'s, he offset the caloric changes short term. Again specious, but accurate. If it leads to some better way to measure energy in the human body, great, but my concern was that people would see the experiment and think that if they ate “clean” they could eat all they want and not gain weight. I expressed this concern and asked that he address it in his conclusion.

    Sounds like he is better at working out than thinking. Did he actually say a calorie doesn't know something? They are sentient now?
  • SteelySunshine
    SteelySunshine Posts: 1,092 Member
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    I am not impressed. If I chose to move for 8 hours a day or it was my job (as a trainer to move that much) I would burn at least 5000 calories a day. I aim to walk for an hour and a half a day and it says I burn off close to 900 calories. So, basically if I increased that a couple more hours I would be burning close to 5000 a day.
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
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    I think people take calories in/out out of context. The laws of thermodynamics do not state that all energy contained in food that enters my esophagus will 1- be absorbed into my bloodstream and B- be utilized in an efficient manner, and 3- never leave my body without having had its energy expended. Calories in/out is about the relationship between food energy and fat storage, and that 3500 calories is stored as one pound of fat. That much is true. Anyone who could disprove that would certainly earn themselves a Nobel prize.

    But just think, people will still be having to debunk this idiotic experiment years from now every week when it's mentioned on the forums as "proof" that cals in/out is BS.
  • freerange
    freerange Posts: 1,722 Member
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    Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

    Ambitious to put it nicely.

    WHy to folks assume the human body is nothing more than a furnace?
  • _Zardoz_
    _Zardoz_ Posts: 3,987 Member
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    Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

    Ambitious to put it nicely.

    WHy to folks assume the human body is nothing more than a furnace?
    Why do folks think science doesn't apply to dieting?


    Sounds like this guy has too much time on his hands and maybe needs a hobby
  • freerange
    freerange Posts: 1,722 Member
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    Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

    Ambitious to put it nicely.
    Idk what his maintenance calories are but there's a chance he could maintain. One of my gym bros is a bodybuilder and >200lbs with 5% body fat and he told me he maintains at 4,000 calories. If this dude upped his activity/exercise he could potentially maintain on 5,000. I just don't understand why anyone would want to eat that much.

    OK, so he proves that he can burn 5000kcal a day. good for him.

    But as I understand he is trying to disprove the "Calorie Myth" and the Calories in = Calories Out "Theory". See the original Post.

    These are no myths or theories its a law of physics.

    His experiment is therefor not based in Science which makes it objectively worthless.

    It is painfully obvious you, and most here, did not bother to go to the link and read. Try it, you'll like it. ;)
  • freerange
    freerange Posts: 1,722 Member
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    Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

    Ambitious to put it nicely.

    WHy to folks assume the human body is nothing more than a furnace?
    Why do folks think science doesn't apply to dieting?


    Sounds like this guy has too much time on his hands and maybe needs a hobby

    Why to folks without answers always answer a question with a question.:)

    Science? Like when science told us that the earth was the center of the universe?
  • 0OneTwo3
    0OneTwo3 Posts: 149 Member
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    Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

    Ambitious to put it nicely.
    Idk what his maintenance calories are but there's a chance he could maintain. One of my gym bros is a bodybuilder and >200lbs with 5% body fat and he told me he maintains at 4,000 calories. If this dude upped his activity/exercise he could potentially maintain on 5,000. I just don't understand why anyone would want to eat that much.

    OK, so he proves that he can burn 5000kcal a day. good for him.

    But as I understand he is trying to disprove the "Calorie Myth" and the Calories in = Calories Out "Theory". See the original Post.

    These are no myths or theories its a law of physics.

    His experiment is therefor not based in Science which makes it objectively worthless.

    It is painfully obvious you, and most here, did not bother to go to the link and read. Try it, you'll like it. ;)

    Oh, i read it, had a good laugh, and felt a bit sorry for the people he sold his BS to.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

    Ambitious to put it nicely.

    WHy to folks assume the human body is nothing more than a furnace?
    Why do folks think science doesn't apply to dieting?


    Sounds like this guy has too much time on his hands and maybe needs a hobby

    Why to folks without answers always answer a question with a question.:)

    Science? Like when science told us that the earth was the center of the universe?
    lol, that was presumption before we had the scientific means to determine otherwise.

    Strong argument 10/10
  • pcastagner
    pcastagner Posts: 1,606 Member
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    Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

    Ambitious to put it nicely.

    WHy to folks assume the human body is nothing more than a furnace?

    Not the law of furnaces, you goof. Thermodynamics. It says you can't make something from nothing. It doesn't rule out not gaining fat because certain foods don't get stored, but it DOES say you can't make fat without a calorie surplus.
    The first law of thermodynamics is a version of the law of conservation of energy, adapted for thermodynamic systems. The internal energy of an isolated system is constant and energy can be transformed from one form to another, but cannot be created or destroyed. The first law is often formulated by stating that the change in the internal energy of a closed system is equal to the amount of heat supplied to the system, minus the amount of work done by the system on its surroundings.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    So if you're saying eating a large amount of calories in healthy clean food won't make you put on weight, then how does healthy weight gain happen? You know for people who are underweight and want to put on some flesh in a healthy way?

    By weight lifting

    Here is my article on this topic :smile:

    http://cdnutritionandfitness.com/clean-vs-dirty-bulking/
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
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    Good for this guy. Testing his argument out on his own body.
  • sa11yjane
    sa11yjane Posts: 491 Member
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    bump
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
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    Ok let's see here guys...

    I'm 6'4, 194. I have calculated my BMR from the Harris-Benedict equation and applied the most rigorous category of "Very Heavy Exercise", resulting in a daily calorie expenditure of 3,876.

    I will now eat 12,000 calories per day.

    I should gain 16 pounds per week. But for some reason I don't, and I won 22 Olympic medals. So obviously eating fried eggs, pancakes with syrup, pasta, ham sandwiches with mayo, and entire pepperoni pizzas while ignoring calories is the way to go.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    Very interesting I notice that he is eating a lot of coconut oil and also walnuts both of these foods increase metabolism so could in theory prevent him form gaining weight. If he has a high metabolism he may well be able to eat 5000cals a day and not put on weight. Where as me who has been blessed with a slow metabolism would get fat just looking at his menu. a case in point is this lady and she doesn't eat clean.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/4660129/Ive-had-five-kids-eat-5000-calories-of-junk-food-a-day-and-size-6.html

    Certain foods increase metabolism? Do you have a list of these amazing super foods?
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

    Ambitious to put it nicely.

    WHy to folks assume the human body is nothing more than a furnace?

    Not the law of furnaces, you goof. Thermodynamics. It says you can't make something from nothing. It doesn't rule out not gaining fat because certain foods don't get stored, but it DOES say you can't make fat without a calorie surplus.
    The first law of thermodynamics is a version of the law of conservation of energy, adapted for thermodynamic systems. The internal energy of an isolated system is constant and energy can be transformed from one form to another, but cannot be created or destroyed. The first law is often formulated by stating that the change in the internal energy of a closed system is equal to the amount of heat supplied to the system, minus the amount of work done by the system on its surroundings.

    Are we back to the argument that excess protein calories are magically eliminated from the body again (and only excess carb and fat calories can be stored as fat)?
  • Iron_Feline
    Iron_Feline Posts: 10,750 Member
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    Arguing against the first law of thermodynamics?

    Ambitious to put it nicely.
    Idk what his maintenance calories are but there's a chance he could maintain. One of my gym bros is a bodybuilder and >200lbs with 5% body fat and he told me he maintains at 4,000 calories. If this dude upped his activity/exercise he could potentially maintain on 5,000. I just don't understand why anyone would want to eat that much.

    OK, so he proves that he can burn 5000kcal a day. good for him.

    But as I understand he is trying to disprove the "Calorie Myth" and the Calories in = Calories Out "Theory". See the original Post.

    These are no myths or theories its a law of physics.

    His experiment is therefor not based in Science which makes it objectively worthless.

    It is painfully obvious you, and most here, did not bother to go to the link and read. Try it, you'll like it. ;)

    Oh, i read it, had a good laugh, and felt a bit sorry for the people he sold his BS to.

    I too read it, chatted to him on twitter and concluded that his"experiment" is flawed and biased from the start.

    Vanity experiment proves nothing except to people who know nothing about science. :noway:
  • cwood2002
    cwood2002 Posts: 39 Member
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    I've struggled to lose weight for some time. I'm in the gym doing weight training and cardio 5 days a week. I'm 48 so my metabolism is not what is used to be. A co-worker who is training to be in a fitness competition mentioned MFP and told me to give it a try. Over the past week I cut out processed food, starches and alcohol in addition to using MFP to watch my overall carbs, sugar and calories. I take in about 1700 calories a day and only eat fresh food and a protein shake after working out. By no means am I starving. In one week I went from 181 to 177 and did not increase my exercise. The food prep takes a lot of planning but it seems to be working.

    I can cut out the processed food. ..........but, starches and alcohol too??!! :huh:
    Cmon, you gotta have something to enjoy.
    :drinker:
  • freerange
    freerange Posts: 1,722 Member
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    I too read it, chatted to him on twitter and concluded that his"experiment" is flawed and biased from the start.

    Vanity experiment proves nothing except to people who know nothing about science. :noway:

    Flawed in what way? Did he use the wrong measure to calculate is calorie expenditure? Perhaps he used the wrong measure to calculate his calorie intake? Tell us how it is flawed, just saying so does not make it so.

    Back to science, how about the science that told us, Stars cannot be bigger than 150 solar masses? The point is, scientific "facts" change all the time. To conclude that the law of thermodynamics is the only law governing caloric expenditure, and that "you" have all the answers is foolish. Anyone that would make a blanket statement such as you have and others here have is,,,,, well any thinking person would know you are full of the BS that was claimed by another poster.
  • freerange
    freerange Posts: 1,722 Member
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    It doesn't rule out not gaining fat because certain foods don't get stored,

    Well according to a few here it does

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