Why do people consider weight loss surgery cheating?
Replies
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To the OP:
What I'm not understanding is if you are having problems losing weight with your PCOS now, how is it going to change when you have the surgery? Will something in your hormones change that will make you more likely to lose weight, purely due to the surgery? It would seem logical that the weight may come back on (and you would still have extra trouble getting it off) if you still have PCOS, as you said PCOS is the cause for your weight problems.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22169760
Surg Obes Relat Dis. 2012 Jul-Aug;8(4):440-4. doi: 10.1016/j.soard.2011.09.022. Epub 2011 Oct 6.
Roux-en-Y gastric bypass ameliorates polycystic ovary syndrome and dramatically improves conception rates: a 9-year analysis.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) is a common cause of infertility, especially in the morbidly obese. We evaluated the long-term effects of Roux-en-Y gastric bypass on PCOS and infertility.
METHODS:
A total of 566 morbidly obese women underwent Roux-en-Y gastric bypass from 2000 to 2009. A total of 31 patients (5.5%) had a history of PCOS. Of the 31 patients, 6 were postmenopausal and 5 lost to follow-up and were excluded. Telephone interviews were conducted with the 20 eligible patients.
RESULTS:
The mean age and body mass index was 32 ± 5.8 years (range 22-42) and 52.8 ± 9.08 kg/m(2) (range 37-76) before surgery. All 20 patients had ≥ 2 of 3 diagnostic criteria for PCOS, including clinical or biochemical evidence of hyperandrogenism, anovulation, or polycystic ovaries. Of these, 85% had oligomenorrhea, 70% had hirsutism, and 45% had type 2 diabetes mellitus with medication. Before surgery, 8 patients conceived with or without hormonal treatment, 2 did not desire pregnancy, and 10 did not conceive. The mean follow-up was 46.7 months. After surgical weight loss, menstruation was corrected in 82%, hirsutism had resolved in 29%, and 77.8% of those with diabetes had complete remission. Of the 10 patients who did not conceive before surgery, 4 no longer desired pregnancy, and the remaining 6 patients had become pregnant within 3 years of surgery-5 without any hormonal treatment and 1 with in utero insemination.[/b]
CONCLUSION:
Surgical weight loss after Roux-en-Y gastric bypass achieves excellent amelioration of PCOS manifestations and the postoperative conception rate in infertile PCOS subjects desiring pregnancy was 100%.
I think most of those results are related to weight loss itself. If you can lose weight without the surgery and learn to work with your body, you will probably have similar results.0 -
I have a lot of thoughts on WLS. More thoughts after reading through this tread, but I haven't seen many speak to the question. The question is why do people consider it cheating.
Here is the truth as I see it and I am probably right. People think that fat people should be punished. Even doctors they will suggest a 1200 calorie or lower diet in some cases. A lot of people have that mindset, that if you are obese you must be on a very strict VLC diet. Even though time and time again for millions of people this hasn't proven to be effective in fact most people on VLC diets do lose weight. However, when they quit the diet and most will the vast majority will, they start binging and their diets become worse than ever. And there is the notion that if a person is obese and wants to lose weight they must go through grueling amounts of exercise. They must not eat anything with sugar, fat, or even complex carbohydrates. If they aren't eating a salad and some lean meat they are cheating on their diets. If they don't run 5 miles a day they are lazy and not committed. We have all seen the sitcoms where a character has a weight issue and all they are allowed to eat on their diet is lettuce and it's played for laughs when they try to sneak eat a submarine sandwich or some other normal food item. VLC diets plus this workout til you drop attitude is I believe largely responsible for so many people failing to stick to a lifestyle change that will allow them to lose and maintain.
I have seen this attitude even here. People mocked for not cutting calories enough. People being disrespected for their food choices or the timing of their meals. People being told they must do cardio and lift heavy. There are a lot of issues people don't agree on here as far as what is healthy. And I think a lot of people even here really believe that in order to be effective a person has to be starving and dropping from exhaustion from over exercising.
Now that being said I think there are pros and cons to WLS and for me the cons outweigh the pros. But, YMMV.
I agree about VLCD. I cannot follow a diet plan of 1200 calories or even 1500 calories and be satisfied. I would be hungry all day. I would lose weight quicker but it would be completely unpleasant. Following the WW plan and eating weekly points I do fine. I am pretty satisfied with what I am eating. I have not binged in two months. I believe I am eating around 1900 calories or more. It works for me and I have been losing great! 20 lbs in two months.0 -
As a person who lives with PCOS. Things quit working and we have to take hormones just to have a normal cycle. It is just easier to lose the weight specially when we get tired of having to use a pill to be normal.I am scheduled to have a gastric bypass on May 24th. I have family and friends making snide comments about my decision. And I keep reading online posts about how weight loss surgery is so horrible because it is cheating.
I have followed a doctor supervised diet and exercise regiment for over a year. My PCOS is making it impossible for me to lose weight. I've seen and endocrinologist and several other specialists and all are agreeing that it is a good idea if I have weight loss surgery because it will change my hormone composition.
I see weight loss surgery as a tool...you still have to follow a strict diet and exercise program if you are going to be healthy. You have to be extremely diligent in taking your supplements and protein intake. You can never eat sugary or fatty foods again. It's not as easy as people think.
Sorry about the rant....I guess I'm just in need of some support or validation of my new journey.
I have an honest question. How does making your stomach smaller change your hormones? Shouldn't you have hormone therapy to change your hormone levels?0 -
This is always going to be a touchy subject for a number of people. Full disclosure: I had the lap-band in December 2011. I'm 5'8" and 35 years old. At my highest weight I was 270. I am now about 15 pounds away from my goal of losing 108 pounds. Every day, and I mean EVERY DAY, I question whether or not I regret my decision to do it.
There are a number of well-informed comments on this thread and just as many well-meaning (albeit largely anecdotal) comments from someone who knows someone. Then there are a handful who I would argue are not well-informed but have a strong opinion one way or the other. And that's OK. I don't take offense at any of these comments, partly because of my own inner struggle with my choice.
When I first made the decision to do it, I successfully lost 30 pounds on the pre-op diet, which consisted of mostly protein shakes and one lean meal per day. Not surprising that I lost weight, but not a sustainable diet for a lifetime. If I’m being honest with myself, I know I stuck to that diet like glue because I was terrified that my enlarged liver would prevent me from being able to have the surgery done safely. And let me pause there…because surgery of any kind should never be undertaken lightly. It is painful, even when done as a laparoscopic procedure. It also has risks – very serious risks that need to be weighed by the person undergoing the procedure. Ideally, this person is also being supported by wise counsel from their physician as well as trusted family/friends who are genuinely concerned about their well-being.
To the OP’s question: why do people consider it cheating? Because ultimately, that is a subjective assessment that needs to be evaluated by each individual. There is no definitive answer. Do I think it’s cheating? No, I do not. It is not a magic wand. It requires sustained hard work, both physically and mentally. As many others have said, it is merely a tool. It is also only one of several tools that you will need to learn to wield properly in order to be successful. For me, at its most basic level, my lap band effectively utilizes operant conditioning to force me to change my behavior. Am I capable of eating more than I should? Yes. Do I feel good when I do that? Most certainly not. This becomes a very powerful incentive to change your behavior quickly. If done properly, you learn to adjust your lifestyle to your new surgically-imposed restrictions, which in time becomes the new standard for your behavior and your decisions.
As I noted, the surgery is only one of several tools you will need. Like anyone attempting to lose weight, you have to make wise choices about your food intake and you simply have to exercise if you wish to sustain your new, healthy lifestyle. I log every calorie and I work out regularly with a personal trainer. And to put it bluntly, you need to get your mind right. That means different things to different people, but to me it meant never giving up…no matter how difficult, no matter how frustrating, no matter how slowly the process may seem to be going at times. And ultimately, that was one of the most powerful things for me. I had made the choice to go down this path, drastic as it was, and I simply could not allow myself to fail.
As of this writing, I still have the band but I have had all the fluid removed, so it provides zero restriction. I am determined to go the rest of the way on my own. I often wish I had opted to make those same healthy lifestyle changes without the aid of the lap-band. I will never know if I would have been as successful over the course of the last year and a half, but I wish I would have tried. And I mean REALLY tried.
OP, I wish you all the best in your decision. Feel free to message me if you would like more information.
Thanks for telling your story. One question I have is that if it still takes sustained hard work, then why have the surgery at all? I can do the hard work without the surgery and not have the complications.0 -
Its the cowards way out
when we are out here working our *kitten* off cuz we gotta lose weight- the real way
Two of my most inspiring MFP friends had weight loss surgery. I did not. They have both lost about the same amount of weight as I have.
The ONLY difference between us is that they had the surgery and I didn't. All three of us log food religiously. All three of us workout all the time. All three of us have made lifelong changes in our approach to food and fitness. All three of us have to approach every challenge with willpower and hard work. All three of us are at risk of regaining weight if we fail to retain our new habits - in fact, studies show that of the three of us, I am the most likely to fail.
We all lost weight "the real way." We all worked our *kitten* off.
Well said. And, congrats on the amazing weight loss.0 -
I only think it's cheating when people hoop and holler about how great it is that they lost a big chunk of weight without acknowleging the surgery being the main reason. Similar to me taking credit for walking 37 miles into work when I drove a car. I know people I work with that have lost 150 lbs after surgery, but act like they did it on a treadmill.
Own it. If it's part of your process at getting healthy, then who cares what they think.
You work just as HARD, if not HARDER, after weight loss surgery than anyone does to lose the weight. It is only a TOOL. You still have to do the work. The weight doesn't just fall off. It means completely changing your life--immediately. ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT WE DON'T WORK AS HARD HAS NO CLUE.
Then why get the surgery? I am not against it or trying to be mean but if it is just as hard then why not do it the old fashioned way? Honest question.0 -
I only think it's cheating when people hoop and holler about how great it is that they lost a big chunk of weight without acknowleging the surgery being the main reason. Similar to me taking credit for walking 37 miles into work when I drove a car. I know people I work with that have lost 150 lbs after surgery, but act like they did it on a treadmill.
Own it. If it's part of your process at getting healthy, then who cares what they think.
You work just as HARD, if not HARDER, after weight loss surgery than anyone does to lose the weight. It is only a TOOL. You still have to do the work. The weight doesn't just fall off. It means completely changing your life--immediately. ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT WE DON'T WORK AS HARD HAS NO CLUE.
Then why get the surgery? I am not against it or trying to be mean but if it is just as hard then why not do it the old fashioned way? Honest question.
I agree with JD. I know a woman who had the surgery done who lied to her doc that she tried every other means possible to lose the weight and had the surgery done. She still is overweight.0 -
'The... patient should be made to understand that he or she must take charge of his own life. Don't take your body to the doctor as if he were a repair shop'. ~Quentin Regestein
^^^This^^^0 -
My boyfriend's mom just got gastric bypass and I am sorry, but I cannot view it as "hard work". In her case, she has to watch what she eats due to the surgery, but she doesn't exercise at all. Then, she brags about how great she looks. Seriously! There has been no effort on her end. Also, she would have lost weight IF she would have stopped drinking a bottle of wine every night and started to eat a little bit better. It annoyed me because she told me she couldn't work out (she could have! swimming is a great low-impact workout). I don't think her doctor even mentioned that she should try diet/exercise first. That's what I have a problem with, I suppose. That for some, this surgery is a crutch to avoid trying and failing at having your own self-control when it comes to food and physical activity.
I am sure each case is different, but she lost 60 pounds in two months due to a surgery, not through any hard work on her own merit. It's annoying to hear her tell me how much weight is falling off of her while I am working really hard to lose it the "natural" way. she is angry when i look toned and she doesn't..... and it's like, "yes, i exercise!"0 -
I only think it's cheating when people hoop and holler about how great it is that they lost a big chunk of weight without acknowleging the surgery being the main reason. Similar to me taking credit for walking 37 miles into work when I drove a car. I know people I work with that have lost 150 lbs after surgery, but act like they did it on a treadmill.
Own it. If it's part of your process at getting healthy, then who cares what they think.
You work just as HARD, if not HARDER, after weight loss surgery than anyone does to lose the weight. It is only a TOOL. You still have to do the work. The weight doesn't just fall off. It means completely changing your life--immediately. ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT WE DON'T WORK AS HARD HAS NO CLUE.
Then why get the surgery? I am not against it or trying to be mean but if it is just as hard then why not do it the old fashioned way? Honest question.
As someone who has had WLS, I do not agree that it's HARDER than doing things the natural way. Yes there are some things that take a bit more attention and may be more difficult than for someone who has not had WLS.. for example, getting proper hydration can be more difficult for SOME wls patients, or getting all of your macronutrient goals met might take a bit more planning than someone who has not had surgery, but HARDER? Not for me. It's LESS hard. I won't say easy, because it's not.. but it's LESS HARD. For me, not having constant hunger, and being satisfied with smaller portions makes the process LESS HARD... which actually allows me to be able to stick with it so I'm able to continue working hard to meet my goals!0 -
Its only cheating when... as many others have said, people act like the ton of weight they've lost in a matter of months is from their hardwork, diet and exercise. Never acknowledging any procedure was done. Then make the rest of us.. who- by the way- are trying to lose the same amount of weight... look and feel as if we're doing something wrong or don't have the right method/motivation/or discipline to lose the weight.
As you can probably tell, I've had a personal experience with a hs friend who did this, and it bothers me to no end.
In no way did she ever outright credit the surgery (just to a couple people) but yet she constantly bragged about how her hard work at the gym and eating right paid off and made it completely sound like her 100+ loss in less than 6 months was all from her hard work and motivation.
What bothered me even more... I didn't see her really start eating right or exercising like crazy until after the procedure. Why wasn't this attempted in the first place so that you could find out if you could really lose the weight without the procedure? Y
I see so many people here on MFP who take it slow and steady and it would take them twice as long or even more to lose the same amount of weight... but is it fair to them, in the mean time, to not make it known that you did have a weight loss surgery which is contributing to your loss? Absolutely NOT!
Many of these people work so hard and get demotivated when they can't lose weight fast enough to keep up with some of these people who get these procedures then completely credit themselves for all the work.
Ok... I'm done with my rant.0 -
Don't worry about what other people say or think. Do whtat you think needs to be done.
I personally have never met a successful person who has had weightloss surgery. Everyone i know either had severe complication that threatened their lives, or they let the surgery do all the work and never learned anything meaningful about nutrition and have now regained all their weight. I have also known one younger women who didn't exercise at all and his now extremely depressed because her body looks like a deflated balloon.
For me it would have been an attempt at an easy way out. This is my personal opinion for myself, but i really don't care what other people do to their bodies. I don't see what other peoples opinions or weightloss strategies matter.0 -
I only think it's cheating when people hoop and holler about how great it is that they lost a big chunk of weight without acknowleging the surgery being the main reason. Similar to me taking credit for walking 37 miles into work when I drove a car. I know people I work with that have lost 150 lbs after surgery, but act like they did it on a treadmill.
Own it. If it's part of your process at getting healthy, then who cares what they think.
You work just as HARD, if not HARDER, after weight loss surgery than anyone does to lose the weight. It is only a TOOL. You still have to do the work. The weight doesn't just fall off. It means completely changing your life--immediately. ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT WE DON'T WORK AS HARD HAS NO CLUE.
Then why get the surgery? I am not against it or trying to be mean but if it is just as hard then why not do it the old fashioned way? Honest question.
I run 5ks, I lift weights, I swim, I walk everyday with my kids, I have a 6 day rotation of workout dvd's that I do...I LOVE to be active. My husband is a wrestling coach and I have followed his plan to the letter (btw...he's an advocate for losing weight the healthy way and not by the extreme dangerous ways some wrestlers use) He is completely baffled as to why I have NEVER lost a SINGLE freakin pound. I eat healthy. I have seen a nutritionist for the past 3 years...it was she who initially told me about weight loss surgery. She and the other doctors I have seen said that my body will produce hormones differently once I have the surgery...it will help me lose weight like a "normal" person should.0 -
honestly, i don't think it is you, Kim, but rather the people who abuse the system. I work for a healthcare company and I can see why many doctors will tell people to do it. They cost a lot of money. Many people, like my boyfriend's mother, are doing it for the wrong reasons without trying first. I think that is why there are so many negative associations with it.0
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I find it disappointing that people are not more accepting to those that choose to have WLS, especially on this board. Struggling with obesity is no laughing matter, nor should any attempt to break those chains be looked at with scorn. To the OP that said it was cheating because they were working their azz off. I’m in the gym 5 days a week and the other two days I work out on my own. I run every day even with a serve case of Plantar fasciitis. I eat clean; I measure, track and log my food just like many of you do. I meet with a nutritionist monthly and have taken college level nutrition classes (as part of my chef’s training) to better understand food and how it impacts that body. I can probably tell you more about how and what you eat than most so called experts on this board.
I’ve been heavy my entire life with the exception of just a few times. It didn’t happen overnight, I didn’t wake up last Tuesday as a fat *kitten*. In my 40’s I lost 70lbs and kept it off for a number of years. I was a runner, did 10ks, halfs etc. I was diagnosed with Type II AFTER I lost the weight and was prescribed a boat load of meds by and over zealot Endocrinologist. Over time the weight creeped back as it always seemed to. It didn’t help that I went into the food business and owned my own café. Over time I gained 100lbs. I knew how to lose the weight, I had done so many times, but I also knew that at age 54, time was no longer on my side. I needed help to get back into the game. After a lot of research, last November, I had VSG surgery. To me, it leveled the playing field and gave me the opportunity to get my hands around getting my health in a better place. I fully understood and understand that this was a life style change. I was and am committed to living a healthy life style. The surgery is just another aid to help keep that discipline in check.
The surgery and the education that I have gotten, both pre-and post op, has been the key to my success. I have eliminated white processed foods; I have stopped drinking booze and beer and opt for a fine red wine, when I do drink. I eat a balanced diet, of chicken, fish and a minimal amount of red meat and pork. I eat healthy amounts of vegetables and fruits. I've identified the triggers in my life that cause me to overeat and I address them when they pop up. Yes, absolutely I could have done each and every one of these things without the surgery, but for me, the surgery was the catalyst that got me refocused. Will the weight come back? Who knows, but how can any of us guarantee that we won’t gain the weight that we have lost back? Please, if you can make me that guarantee, let me know. I have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale.
For those that admonish people that have WLS as cheaters, I say; is having a boob job cheating? Face lift or tummy tuck cheating? What about a V-job? Too lazy to slip on the rubber are you? Do you see where I am coming from? Yes, there are many that have WLS that game the system and there are an equal number that go into the process without the proper education or mindset to make the changes needed to be successful. But again, that is no reason to be resentful, or admonish their efforts. In fact, if you do know these people as many of you say, why not support them and help them learn the things that they need to know?
Weight loss and living a healthy life style, isn’t easy regardless of the path you chose. It shouldn’t be viewed as this secret society that only the ones that do it on their own should be allowed to be a part of. I don’t see WLS being the easy way. In fact in a lot of ways it is harder than doing it the old fashioned way. I am really sorry for the long post, but the negative comments in this thread and negative comments regularly seen on this board about folks that have had WLS, to me, seem hypocritical and ignorant. We should all celebrate the fact that we taking charge of our lives and making the changes necessary to live a longer and healthier life.0 -
I have no idea why people would think weight loss surgery is cheating. Overcoming obesity isn't a game, it's more like war. I don't care how you kill the *kitten*.0
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The same reason they think using a spinning pole is cheating. . .
They are uninformed. 0 -
I dont think i've ever heard that. I have never personally, nor would ever get weight loss surgery.
To call it cheating would be bull****, though. Because it takes work to keep off the weight and keep losing.0 -
because we have to do it with diet and exercise0
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I only think it's cheating when people hoop and holler about how great it is that they lost a big chunk of weight without acknowleging the surgery being the main reason. Similar to me taking credit for walking 37 miles into work when I drove a car. I know people I work with that have lost 150 lbs after surgery, but act like they did it on a treadmill.
Own it. If it's part of your process at getting healthy, then who cares what they think.
I agree with this. It's not cheating but it is a weight loss enhancing tool and I think it's a little annoying when people have WLS and go on about how they lost weight without being honest about everything that went into it. If you want WLS go for it and to hell what anyone thinks. If they think you cheated, so what. You'll have cheated your way to a great body and better healthy. They can deal. But when asked how you lost weight don't get all, "I just ate right and did pilates."0 -
People enjoy feeling superior to others and nitpick at things that are none of their business in order to feel that superiority.0
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I don't think it's cheating, I think a LOT of times it's unnecessary and stupid.0
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I definitely don't consider it cheating. As you said, it is a tool. As a matter of fact, if you don't follow the strict diet and exercise regime laid out for you, you can eat your way right out of it. I know several people who have had it done and ate their way right out of it. They are bigger now than they ever were. The key is changing your lifestyle.0
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I have a friend who had the surgery done a couple of years ago, but I was not impressed with her attitude. She decided that the year before the surgery, she should take advantage of eating all the "bad" food she could because it would be "the last time she could have it" She weighed about 300 lbs then and gained 70 lbs before she got the surgery. She lost about 100 pounds the first year and then went back to her old habits. She's somewhere around the 300 lb mark now.
So I think that educating yourself and trying to make a change BEFORE the surgery is crucial, because you need to start changing your habits to keep the weight off. You might lose a lot initially, but it won't stay off it you don't make those changes.0 -
I think it's great that you have already been following a diet and exercising. I have heard of some getting gastric bypass without making any lifestyle changes. They don't lose the weight the right way and a lot of people gain the weight back afterwards.0
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I don't think it's cheating, I think a LOT of times it's unnecessary and stupid.
Well first off, I reported you, Im offended by your post....and secondly, I agree about it being unneccesary but, I think that people that are bed ridden and stuff definitely could consider it an option.0 -
I think the people who succeed after surgery are not cheating. I know a couple of success stories where the person really have made a lifestyle change and worked on their emotional problems.
But I think sometimes people think it's going to be easy. I have a woman in my close family who had weight loss surgery. She is now gaining it all back. And she blaimes her kids because they didn't want to eat healthy food. Like she doesn't have a say in what kind of food is bought and prepaired.
Sometimes I feel they should use the money the surgery costs to get professional help and try weight loss the regular way. I'm guessing you could get a lot of hours of PT, dietitian and counseling for the price of surgery.0 -
I think it's cheating if the person getting the surgery has not tried to lose weight through calorie counting/some kind of change in diet and/or exercise.
If that person has tried and not succeeded (and was doing it correctly) then I think for health reasons it's fair to get the surgery.
But for most people who get it, it's the lazy way out.0 -
I don't think it' cheating. I have a friend who had lap band, but I can tell she has gained a lot of weight back. I didn't realize that could happen. I chose not to do surgery for the reason that I don't want to go through the difficulty of surgery and then have the same possibility of gaining back just as I would without surgery. I am trying without, but good luck to you.0
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I have a friend who had the surgery done a couple of years ago, but I was not impressed with her attitude. She decided that the year before the surgery, she should take advantage of eating all the "bad" food she could because it would be "the last time she could have it" She weighed about 300 lbs then and gained 70 lbs before she got the surgery. She lost about 100 pounds the first year and then went back to her old habits. She's somewhere around the 300 lb mark now.
So I think that educating yourself and trying to make a change BEFORE the surgery is crucial, because you need to start changing your habits to keep the weight off. You might lose a lot initially, but it won't stay off it you don't make those changes.
Such a shame.. I had a good friend who had Bypass and had a very similar mentality. Unfortunately, I knew she was going to fail before she even had the surgery..I kept my opinion to myself though and I HOPED she'd prove me wrong!!! She actually went to an all you can eat place the day before surgery... It's a cautionary tale.... and proof that WLS is not the "easy way out" if it was, then all weight loss surgery patients would be successful, but unfortunately many are not... It doesn't work unless you are willing to put in a good amount of effort!
When I began seriously considering WLS for myself, I knew I didn't want to go down the same path as my friend. Before my surgery I actually LOST 70 pounds from my highest weight. I am SOOOOOOO glad that I made those changes prior to my surgery, it just made the whole process run a lot smoother for me.0
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