Seriously discouraged

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

you find cows and pigs horrifying?!

I find factory farming and feed lots horrifying.

Kris

Then, eat organic!

When I eat red meat, I do.

Edited to say that, on the rare occasion I eat chicken, I also eat organic. And when I have the occasional eggs, I eat organic. In fact, most of what I eat is organic. Not being snotty, just wanted to clarify.

Kris

You might want to give up the fish oil and try Omega-3 Krill Oil (I use one by Natrol).

My levels:

Pre , after 30 days:
Total Chol 219 , 143
HDL 97, 78
LDL 114 , outside reporting range (to low to register)
TC/HDL 2.3 , 1.8 (ideal)
Triglycerides 45, 45

I was only taking one capsule a day, but you can safely take 2 per day.
If you are loosing fat (I didn't say weight), your triglyceride levels will be slightly elevated as the triglyceride leaves the fat cell and enters the blood stream.

This was very helpful, thank you!

Kris

why have you cut out all meat?

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

With diabetes I worry more about carb levels than fat levels. If you've increased your carbs to compensate for the protein that will have an impact on your blood sugar readings.

Good thinking, but I actually keep my carbs well controlled--not "Atkins" restricted, but low enough that my blood sugar is controlled through diet. Even on nights I have whole grains, my total carbs per meal are kept in a reasonable range and my blood sugar doesn't spike.

I know a lot of folks are into the "eat more meat," but "eating more meat" is what helped get me here. I've been a "meat with every meal" kind of person my whole life, and it hasn't done well by me.

Kris

whole grain intake has increased markedly

I'm guessing this is the problem. Have you been tested for wheat/gluten intolerance? Sometimes it doesn't present as celiac but can still be a metabolic inhibitor (thyroid disrupter). Especially for blood type O. Do you know your blood type? I'm type O and i'm amazed how much my energy levels have improved since i cut out gluten... even my early morning basal body temp has risen! (it was consistently a degree lower than normal for years, even on thyroid meds). Wouldn't hurt to get it checked out and then you would know for sure.

*edit - also of note: celiac can cause impairment of absorption of vitamin D because gluten allergy/intolerance can cause villous atrophy in the intestines.

I found this extremely interesting. *I* am O+ and for years and years had a low body temp (of a degree or more below "normal"). I've not gone gluten-free, but I've limited my bread/pasta consumption over the last year or so and my temperature readings are much more "normal" these days. I've never heard this before. Going to have to research.

Kris- Your TSH level is in the normal range (0.5-6.00). Did they do a free T4 test as well? I didn't see that listed. If so, the normal range is 0.7-1.8. I'm hypothyroid (diagnosed 3 years ago) and my most recent tests have my TSH at 2.49 and my Free T4 at 1.5, so my meds are well-regulated at the moment (thankfully). But perhaps what PhoenixEve said above relates to you as well...

Sadly, Jenni, I cannot inspire a physician to test more than my TSH--and I have asked. For years, I've asked. But my insurance will not cover the test, so doctors won't administer it because they say it's not called for. I haven't asked THIS doctor, so, when I see her again in six months, I'll specifically request it. Maybe I can make the family history of thyroid cancer pan into a more in-depth study.

Kris

whole grain intake has increased markedly

I'm guessing this is the problem. Have you been tested for wheat/gluten intolerance? Sometimes it doesn't present as celiac but can still be a metabolic inhibitor (thyroid disrupter). Especially for blood type O. Do you know your blood type? I'm type O and i'm amazed how much my energy levels have improved since i cut out gluten... even my early morning basal body temp has risen! (it was consistently a degree lower than normal for years, even on thyroid meds). Wouldn't hurt to get it checked out and then you would know for sure.

*edit - also of note: celiac can cause impairment of absorption of vitamin D because gluten allergy/intolerance can cause villous atrophy in the intestines.

I found this extremely interesting. *I* am O+ and for years and years had a low body temp (of a degree or more below "normal"). I've not gone gluten-free, but I've limited my bread/pasta consumption over the last year or so and my temperature readings are much more "normal" these days. I've never heard this before. Going to have to research.

Kris- Your TSH level is in the normal range (0.5-6.00). Did they do a free T4 test as well? I didn't see that listed. If so, the normal range is 0.7-1.8. I'm hypothyroid (diagnosed 3 years ago) and my most recent tests have my TSH at 2.49 and my Free T4 at 1.5, so my meds are well-regulated at the moment (thankfully). But perhaps what PhoenixEve said above relates to you as well...

Sadly, Jenni, I cannot inspire a physician to test more than my TSH--and I have asked. For years, I've asked. But my insurance will not cover the test, so doctors won't administer it because they say it's not called for. I haven't asked THIS doctor, so, when I see her again in six months, I'll specifically request it. Maybe I can make the family history of thyroid cancer pan into a more in-depth study.

Kris

It's not an expensive. Pay for it out of pocket.

That's a good thought. If she refuses, I'll do exactly that.

Kris

When you make radical changes to your diet, it can lead to some strange results, particularly for lipids, if you test them in the first 3 months or so.

I make a change to my diet and my LDL went up markedly so that my doctor wondered what was going on.

I retested it 6 months later and all my blood work was better than it's ever been.

You have to give your body time to adjust to a new diet. It can take anywhere from 3 to 6 months and in some cases, even a year.

It's good to have someone review your diet in case you've missed something.

I am also wondering why you have eliminated meat (unless you do not like it). Lean cuts of meat are good sources of protein.
But kudos on increasing your fish intake.
I wonder if you might be overdoing it on supplements though. In most cases (fish oil included), you are far better off getting those micronutrients from whole foods than a pill. When taken as a whole food, they interact with other nutrients to be more readily bioavailable and utilised by your body.

Thank you for the really thoughtful response!

I think you may be right on the fish oil--the research is promising, but I'd rather get it from the food than from a bottle.

I don't like beef, pork, or lamb enough to give up those calories, i.e., there are things I would rather be eating, things I feel confident are better for me. Until a month + ago, I was eating processed meat twice a week, hamburger 1-2 nights a week, Italian sausage once a week, and chicken with bacon once a week, and no matter how you slice it (yes, bad pun again), that's not good. I've decided that, if I absolutely MUST have a roast beef sandwich, we'll buy the grass fed, organic roast and slice it ourselves (we have a slicer). And if I MUST have a hamburger? Same thing--we'll buy the grass fed and grind it ourselves--at least then I know it all came from the same cow.

I feel compelled to say that, while eating those things, I was keeping my calories in check--in other words, for every cheeseburger (on whole grain/low carb bread with no fries, lol) I ate, those calories had to come from somewhere else. So my fruit and veggie and whole grains were taking a hit in favor of hamburgers, tacos, and steaks.

In my case, with my dietary peccadillos, I feel that a mostly pescatarian diet is the best way to go. I don't imagine I'm going to give up the steaks for Christmas dinner or the occasional chicken and melted cheddar sandwich, but I feel better about the way I'm eating now (I am far more aware of what's going into my stomach and where it comes from than I ever have been). Until a month+ ago, it was all about carbs and calories, but now I'm looking more closely at the whole picture. And, while my blood work was disappointing (I've decided I'm going to view that 3 point HDL raise as a victory, lol), the way I FEEL has been a real eye-opener.

I don't tend to be the "go with your gut/trust your instincts" kind of person--I'm more the "and where did that information come from?" type, but right now, my body is telling me that I feel better. Whether or not that means anything, I don't know. After all, I used to indulge in various substances as a kid, and I thought I felt pretty good then, too.

I really do appreciate your thoughtful response, and I think you're right--I need to give this more time. On the super-bright side, I have my pizza-munching kid loving swordfish and ahi, with a side of salad and veggies most nights. And that makes the rest of it worth it.

Kris

Megadoses of what cause cardiac risk, the D? I hadn't heard that before and I take 2 extra supplements a day, so I should probably find out.

36 days isn't a long time to change cholesterol and vitamin D levels. It took your body a lifetime to get where you are today, it will take more than 5 weeks to get it healthy again. I had low vitamin D levels and the doctor put me on prescription supplements. It took 6 months to get my levels where they needed to be.

Thank you, that's what I'm thinking. I won't take the prescription mega-doses--I have cardiac issues and my levels aren't so low that the mega-dose benefits outweigh the risks in my case. But I have upped my daily from 1000 to 2000 mg, and hopefully I'll see better results at my six month appointment.

Kris

Sorry, didn't mean cardiac, meant kidney!

Kris

Maybe you would be interested in this group: Vegetarians & Pescatarians. Perhaps some of the members have some first hand experience to share.

Oooh, thank you! Until I started eating this way, I'd never heard the term "Pescatarian."

Kris

I'm overweight with a BMI of around 35, though it's decreasing, slowly but surely. I recently had bloodwork done as well.

I was also found to have practically shockingly low Vitamin D levels - 9.4. My nurse who gave me the results told me she'd never seen a level so low in her entire career. I was put on a 6-month prescription of a weekly 50,000IU supplement and then told to re-test. Now that summer is upon us, I'm also going to try to force myself to get a little more sun - I have extremely fair skin and so I wear some kind of SPF on all exposed skin year-round, which obviously contributed to that. I need to find a balance there. But, anyway, my doctor told me it can easily take months and months to fix Vitamin D levels - she didn't even expect me to be where she wants me at my 6 month re-test. So, don't get discouraged there.

With regard to cholesterol, my numbers were outstanding, particularly for someone who is technically obese. My HDL was 67, triglycerides were 69, and LDL was 97. Don't get too caught up on LDL - it's important to keep that low, but it's far more important to keep triglycerides low and even more important to keep HDL high. It sounds like you're doing the right things to raise your HDL, but in order to lower triglycerides you need to decrease grains (really, carbs overall, but you don't want to be cutting out vegetables and moderate amounts of fruit). Trust me, I know how counter-intuitive that sounds, but give it a shot. That's how I eat - lots of "healthy" fats like almonds and olive oil, plenty of fruits and veggies, very few grains (of course a little here and there, but many days none and unless it's an extremely special occasion no more than one serving per day), and lots of protein - including saturated fats. It's almost paleo but not quite (and I'm not shooting for that, just to give you something to compare to).

Just think about it. I totally get what you're saying about physically feeling better eating how you are, but just consider it.

I've added fatty nuts, flax, olive oil, and, of course, veggies and fruits, but adding meats isn't just counterintuitive to me, it's out of the question for me. I am diabetic, my body handles saturated fats differently than a non-diabetic. Eating meat frequently and not restricting saturated fats over the years is what led me to where I am now. I do appreciate the thoughtfulness of your response, though--seriously, it took time and effort, and I appreciate it.

Kris

I didn't say you should increase saturated fats or meat, I just said that I include them as a part of my balanced diet. I suggested (as most others have) that you decrease grains/carbs. There's lots of ways to maintain a healthy, balanced diet without eating as many grains, even with limited meat. I've read two different blogs of low-carb vegans - it takes some effort, but it can be done. If you're serious about lowering your cholesterol, that's the way to do it.

Again, I appreciate the effort you've taken (I truly do--it's very kind of you to take the time and trouble). However, for every "low carb vegan" idea that comes my way (or paleo-type gig), there's an avalanche of research that tells me to increase my whole grains to lower my cholesterol, especially oats. Since my grains have been low until recently (in fact, I've been dodging rice until a month ago because of the carbs), I'm going to keep trying with the whole grains, since there is so much research out there backing their use (in a balanced diet) for helping with lipid profiles. However, should things not improve, I'll look to other approaches, including the lower carb (as I said, I'm already lower carb than most, it's how I keep my blood sugar so nice and even), should I find good research to back it up.

I have another question, not sure anyone can answer (I can't): about 30 minutes before my blood was taken, I screwed up and popped a breath mint. Not sure where my head was. I've seen conflicting answers to the "could this screw up my results" question. Does anyone know? It was "sugar-free," but had sugar alcohol and xylitol.

Kris

So, I dug through old scans backed up to disk and found my blood work from 2009. The cholesterol/triglyceride numbers are completely insane. Here are my numbers from 2009, 2012, and 2013, respectively:

2009:

CHOL 163
LDL 77.8
HDL 29
TRIG 281 (!!)

CHOL/HDL Ratio 5.6


2012:

CHOL 190
LDL 130
HDL 33
TRIG 136

2013:

CHOL 207
LDL 136
HDL 36
TRIG 177

Chol/HDL ratio 5.8

That looks all over the place to me. Yes, there have been some wild dietary changes in there, but there's also been a diagnosis of diabetes between the first (2009) and the second (2012).

I think I need to really think back on how I was eating and moving during those times. I can tell you that my activity increased and my diet improved between 2009 and 2012, but then there was a serious backslide for about ten months between 2012 and 2013, until a couple of months ago, with the real effort starting a little over a month ago.

Not sure what to say about this, besides the obvious--I need to stop yo-yoing and lapsing and keep myself on a more rational path.

Kris