Try exercising with a gun in your bra

Not trying to troll anyone here. I was not raised in a gun culture or in a paranoid one. I do not live in the boondocks I live and always lived in a city of over 1 million people ( and for years lots more than that) and I have NEVER felt unsafe.

Even if carrying handguns was legal here I would never think of doing so, especially not to work out. I run by myself every week. I go hiking in the woods by myself every week and the only thing I take with me is my cell phone.

I am in the process of moving to the US, my husband is American, and I am really wondering if the problem is that the country itself is completely unsafe or is everyone thinking it's normal to carry a gun every day ( and especially when running!) because there's a paranoid mentality going on that you were all raised with?

I'm trying to understand it.

Please do some searches for "running safety" on here. You will find quite a number of threads by women in the U.K. who are scared to run because they are regularly verbally assaulted by men and are truly afraid of being raped. Is it fair to assume that the U.K. is awash with women being assaulted when they run? I'm guessing no. You will likely find the U.S. to be a very safe place to live if you are not living in a poor and crime ridden neighborhood. We were not all raised with a "paranoid mentality" anymore than the all people in the U.K. are paranoid.

First thing First.: Not in the UK.

Let me change "paranoid" to having been raised in a culture of fear, it doesn't sound as negative. We have big cities here and some with gangs and high crime rates but people are not walking around every day fearing for their safety. Why are Americans so scared? That's what I'm trying to understand. How do you go through life fearing that someone will attack you EVERY day? I don't want my children to develop that fear.

I mean it's intelligence 101 not go walk alone or run alone in "bad neighbourhoods" and even if I could carry a gun or a knife or pepper spray I would not pull it on someone verbally assaulting me. What happened to ignoring idiots or telling them off?

I can honestly say that the thing that scares me the most about moving is having to live with people carrying guns on them, that's a lot more terrifying to me than the chance that I might fall victim to a criminal. ( But I'm moving to NE so I have better chance of getting lost in a cornfield than murdered)

As I stated above, we were not all raised with a "paranoid mentality" or a "culture of fear." You obviously watch way too much American TV and Hollywood movies.

The OP is running with a gun in her bra.......... and a lot of the posters find this to be normal behavior. That kind makes my point.

Anyways. Thank you for your answers.

So the one poster raising the point paints the entire U.S. under that light, but my pointing out that I am not like what is being portrayed in videos is not valid? Interesting. Well done, folks. Believe what you want to believe. I see intelligent discussion with this group is impossible.

That is an interesting red herring and I see you use them regularly in your attempts to persuade. I do not find them helpful or productive. You also missed my point. The argument that guns are a product of anger and fear are typical of the Northeastern academic set who are intent on proving their own superiority and seem to desire to be part of a special class that they themselves are out to create. I am originally from Florida, and very well educated, have lived abroad for a number of years, have made rather good money, and am certainly not angry and scared. Nice try though at painting all firearms owners with a very broad and negative brush.

That really isn't the point. Nice strawman.

Please elaborate if you are going to argue these points. She used a red herring and I called her on it. There are intelligent points to be made on both sides of the debate but I'm seeing way too much in terms of moral superiority and outright labeling of gun owners in the above which I find offensive.

As for the statistical arguments, I've read extensively on this subject and did quite a bit of work on it during law school. Most of the studies on the subject are skewed one way or the other and that makes for some frustration. I personally have no desire to get too deep into this argument because I'm bored with it. My only request is keep the argument on point. And while I disagree with you, your stats arguments were at least a good example of fair argumentation. The above was not.

The point is; that by saying that *you* dont fall into the category of being either part of the underclass or scared, you infer that the whole argument is invalid. It isn't - you have created (in this case made yourself into) a strawman to whom the trend does not apply. One person does not a trend make.

For what its worth, I live in the UK and I own legally-held firearms. So; I'm hardly what you would call anti-gun. However, I find the notion that one would be better protected by carrying a pistol in ones brassiere misguided to say the very least.

There is no trend. These "documentaries" intentionally select individuals because they portray what the producers what to portray. I find it interesting that you want to somehow separate me from the group of other firearms owners rather than actually listen to what I have to say on the subject. Come to the U.S. I'm happy to show you the good and the bad.

As for the brassiere comment, it depends on the individual's mind-set, her training, and the situation. The importance of judgment cannot be underestimated.

That is an interesting red herring and I see you use them regularly in your attempts to persuade. I do not find them helpful or productive. You also missed my point. The argument that guns are a product of anger and fear are typical of the Northeastern academic set who are intent on proving their own superiority and seem to desire to be part of a special class that they themselves are out to create. I am originally from Florida, and very well educated, have lived abroad for a number of years, have made rather good money, and am certainly not angry and scared. Nice try though at painting all firearms owners with a very broad and negative brush.

That really isn't the point. Nice strawman.

Please elaborate if you are going to argue these points. She used a red herring and I called her on it. There are intelligent points to be made on both sides of the debate but I'm seeing way too much in terms of moral superiority and outright labeling of gun owners in the above which I find offensive.

As for the statistical arguments, I've read extensively on this subject and did quite a bit of work on it during law school. Most of the studies on the subject are skewed one way or the other and that makes for some frustration. I personally have no desire to get too deep into this argument because I'm bored with it. My only request is keep the argument on point. And while I disagree with you, your stats arguments were at least a good example of fair argumentation. The above was not.

The point is; that by saying that *you* dont fall into the category of being either part of the underclass or scared, you infer that the whole argument is invalid. It isn't - you have created (in this case made yourself into) a strawman to whom the trend does not apply. One person does not a trend make.

For what its worth, I live in the UK and I own legally-held firearms. So; I'm hardly what you would call anti-gun. However, I find the notion that one would be better protected by carrying a pistol in ones brassiere misguided to say the very least.

There is no trend. These "documentaries" intentionally select individuals because they portray what the producers what to portray. I find it interesting that you want to somehow separate me from the group of other firearms owners rather than actually listen to what I have to say on the subject. Come to the U.S. I'm happy to show you the good and the bad.

As for the brassiere comment, it depends on the individual's mind-set, her training, and the situation. The importance of judgment cannot be underestimated.

In so stating, you have managed to gloss over that the US has a much higher rate of violent crime than comparable countries (I believe Switzerland was mentioned).

If there is no culture of fear - why do you suppose this is?

wow, who referred to "documentaries"? there is solid research, published in peer-reviewed journals, supporting the analysis above.

lovely lady moving to the US: the reason they're afraid is they don't trust each other (the diversity they celebrate correlates to inequalities), and they don't trust the state. use of guns-> historical accident around availability & production + because of certain interpretations of their constitution, they equate gun ownership with personhood & freedom, which is central to the idealized american identity. you'll take the guns from their cold, dead hands. (yup trolling now)

Not trying to troll anyone here. I was not raised in a gun culture or in a paranoid one. I do not live in the boondocks I live and always lived in a city of over 1 million people ( and for years lots more than that) and I have NEVER felt unsafe.

Even if carrying handguns was legal here I would never think of doing so, especially not to work out. I run by myself every week. I go hiking in the woods by myself every week and the only thing I take with me is my cell phone.

I am in the process of moving to the US, my husband is American, and I am really wondering if the problem is that the country itself is completely unsafe or is everyone thinking it's normal to carry a gun every day ( and especially when running!) because there's a paranoid mentality going on that you were all raised with?

I'm trying to understand it.

Please do some searches for "running safety" on here. You will find quite a number of threads by women in the U.K. who are scared to run because they are regularly verbally assaulted by men and are truly afraid of being raped. Is it fair to assume that the U.K. is awash with women being assaulted when they run? I'm guessing no. You will likely find the U.S. to be a very safe place to live if you are not living in a poor and crime ridden neighborhood. We were not all raised with a "paranoid mentality" anymore than the all people in the U.K. are paranoid.

First thing First.: Not in the UK.

Let me change "paranoid" to having been raised in a culture of fear, it doesn't sound as negative. We have big cities here and some with gangs and high crime rates but people are not walking around every day fearing for their safety. Why are Americans so scared? That's what I'm trying to understand. How do you go through life fearing that someone will attack you EVERY day? I don't want my children to develop that fear.

I mean it's intelligence 101 not go walk alone or run alone in "bad neighbourhoods" and even if I could carry a gun or a knife or pepper spray I would not pull it on someone verbally assaulting me. What happened to ignoring idiots or telling them off?

I can honestly say that the thing that scares me the most about moving is having to live with people carrying guns on them, that's a lot more terrifying to me than the chance that I might fall victim to a criminal. ( But I'm moving to NE so I have better chance of getting lost in a cornfield than murdered)

As I stated above, we were not all raised with a "paranoid mentality" or a "culture of fear." You obviously watch way too much American TV and Hollywood movies.

The OP is running with a gun in her bra.......... and a lot of the posters find this to be normal behavior. That kind makes my point.

Anyways. Thank you for your answers.

So the one poster raising the point paints the entire U.S. under that light, but my pointing out that I am not like what is being portrayed in videos is not valid? Interesting. Well done, folks. Believe what you want to believe. I see intelligent discussion with this group is impossible.

If I believed that I definitely would not have married an American nor would I be willingly moving to the US. It's just very hard for the rest of the world to wrap their minds around some things that a lot of you, not all of you, as US citizens find completely normal. For a lot of us it seems completely unhinged or paranoid but whenever you try to have a reasonable discussions about the root of the mentality your normally end up on the other end of someone turning the argument into " BALD EAGLE, FREEDOM, Y'ALL ARE COMMIES!! ' MURICA!!!!11111!!!!!!" or someone like you telling me I watch too much tv ...

I decided to teach my wife to shoot shortly after we started dating seriously. I wanted to make sure she was safe and figured she didn't have much experience. I went through a full safety lecture with my Glock, worked with her on her stance, etc. She patiently listened, nodded her head the entire time and never asked a question. When I was finished 'splain'n things to the little lady I took her to the range where she proceed to put round after round through the same hole. I've honestly never seen anything like it save for a friend who was an Army sniper. She then told me, yea, her uncle had given her the same lecture and taught her how to shoot when she was quite young. So yea, if anyone ever breaks into our house I'm handing her the pistol.

The facts tell the tale, and the bottom line is the violent crime rates in your countries are higher than that of the US. The difference being that in the US, it is the thugs who must be prudent as to who they decide to victimize. Thugs will always seek to gain the advantage and if guns are eliminated, then they will use clubs or knives.

That is an interesting red herring and I see you use them regularly in your attempts to persuade. I do not find them helpful or productive. You also missed my point. The argument that guns are a product of anger and fear are typical of the Northeastern academic set who are intent on proving their own superiority and seem to desire to be part of a special class that they themselves are out to create. I am originally from Florida, and very well educated, have lived abroad for a number of years, have made rather good money, and am certainly not angry and scared. Nice try though at painting all firearms owners with a very broad and negative brush.

That really isn't the point. Nice strawman.

Please elaborate if you are going to argue these points. She used a red herring and I called her on it. There are intelligent points to be made on both sides of the debate but I'm seeing way too much in terms of moral superiority and outright labeling of gun owners in the above which I find offensive.

As for the statistical arguments, I've read extensively on this subject and did quite a bit of work on it during law school. Most of the studies on the subject are skewed one way or the other and that makes for some frustration. I personally have no desire to get too deep into this argument because I'm bored with it. My only request is keep the argument on point. And while I disagree with you, your stats arguments were at least a good example of fair argumentation. The above was not.

The point is; that by saying that *you* dont fall into the category of being either part of the underclass or scared, you infer that the whole argument is invalid. It isn't - you have created (in this case made yourself into) a strawman to whom the trend does not apply. One person does not a trend make.

For what its worth, I live in the UK and I own legally-held firearms. So; I'm hardly what you would call anti-gun. However, I find the notion that one would be better protected by carrying a pistol in ones brassiere misguided to say the very least.

There is no trend. These "documentaries" intentionally select individuals because they portray what the producers what to portray. I find it interesting that you want to somehow separate me from the group of other firearms owners rather than actually listen to what I have to say on the subject. Come to the U.S. I'm happy to show you the good and the bad.

As for the brassiere comment, it depends on the individual's mind-set, her training, and the situation. The importance of judgment cannot be underestimated.

In so stating, you have managed to gloss over that the US has a much higher rate of violent crime than comparable countries (I believe Switzerland was mentioned).

If there is no culture of fear - why do you suppose this is?

Are you saying that a culture of fear causes violence? Or are you saying that we "should" have a culture of fear?

It definitely does.Fear breeds Fear and Violence.

Not trying to troll anyone here. I was not raised in a gun culture or in a paranoid one. I do not live in the boondocks I live and always lived in a city of over 1 million people ( and for years lots more than that) and I have NEVER felt unsafe.

Even if carrying handguns was legal here I would never think of doing so, especially not to work out. I run by myself every week. I go hiking in the woods by myself every week and the only thing I take with me is my cell phone.

I am in the process of moving to the US, my husband is American, and I am really wondering if the problem is that the country itself is completely unsafe or is everyone thinking it's normal to carry a gun every day ( and especially when running!) because there's a paranoid mentality going on that you were all raised with?

I'm trying to understand it.

Please do some searches for "running safety" on here. You will find quite a number of threads by women in the U.K. who are scared to run because they are regularly verbally assaulted by men and are truly afraid of being raped. Is it fair to assume that the U.K. is awash with women being assaulted when they run? I'm guessing no. You will likely find the U.S. to be a very safe place to live if you are not living in a poor and crime ridden neighborhood. We were not all raised with a "paranoid mentality" anymore than the all people in the U.K. are paranoid.

First thing First.: Not in the UK.

Let me change "paranoid" to having been raised in a culture of fear, it doesn't sound as negative. We have big cities here and some with gangs and high crime rates but people are not walking around every day fearing for their safety. Why are Americans so scared? That's what I'm trying to understand. How do you go through life fearing that someone will attack you EVERY day? I don't want my children to develop that fear.

I mean it's intelligence 101 not go walk alone or run alone in "bad neighbourhoods" and even if I could carry a gun or a knife or pepper spray I would not pull it on someone verbally assaulting me. What happened to ignoring idiots or telling them off?

I can honestly say that the thing that scares me the most about moving is having to live with people carrying guns on them, that's a lot more terrifying to me than the chance that I might fall victim to a criminal. ( But I'm moving to NE so I have better chance of getting lost in a cornfield than murdered)

As I stated above, we were not all raised with a "paranoid mentality" or a "culture of fear." You obviously watch way too much American TV and Hollywood movies.

The OP is running with a gun in her bra.......... and a lot of the posters find this to be normal behavior. That kind makes my point.

Anyways. Thank you for your answers.

So the one poster raising the point paints the entire U.S. under that light, but my pointing out that I am not like what is being portrayed in videos is not valid? Interesting. Well done, folks. Believe what you want to believe. I see intelligent discussion with this group is impossible.

why are you taking this so personally? you have referred to yourself in every comment. no one is wanting to attack you, per se. (or anyone, really).

you're right, stats would help. i'm being glib and loose and probably shouldn't. so, off to do some burpees and then take a walk in the park.

Another excellent use of the ad hominem, "why are you taking this so personally?" So very innocent and quite an effective rhetorical device. I'm not taking it personally, but I enjoy intelligent debate and there are rules engaging in that manner. If you and others are not willing to engage on such an intellectual level then I am not interested in the discussion as there is nothing to do but fling dirt at each other.

dude, your constant & emotive references to your n=1 sample (n=2 if we count mentions of your wife), in which "I'm not like that" = some kind of argument, come across as defensive, full stop (and also, as not-great arguments). it very much sounds as though there is significant personal investment in this subject.

also, i have not once flung dirt at you. i dare you to identify an instance in which that happened.

the rules of engagement - this is mfp? i admitted to being flippant, but i'm allowed, here.