Can you be fat and in starvation mode?
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Thank you for the recommendation - I'll check it out!0
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Gotcha - not really doing this either since I've been eating way below (nor logging all of my exercise consistenly) MFP currently has me at 1890MFP method is where you eat back exercise calories and net X amount. so if you need to net 2000 a day to lose one pound per week and your exercise for day gives you 500 you eat 2500 calories so that you are netting 2000 to lose one pound a day....or whatever your particular setting is...
my suggestion would be to pick a plan and stay with it for four to six weeks and see how it goes...whether that is MFP method, TDEE, or just bumping your current intake up by 100 calories a day....
The only way to get results is to pick a program and stick with it for four to six weeks and see how your body adapts...
can't hurt - the "eat less" method sure isn't working for me is it now!? I think my first goal will be just to get used to eating 1200 cals again... then keep easing it up as I add back in more exercise.0 -
Anyhow back to MFP - mfp method is eating back your exercise calories? Clarify that one for me.
MFP calculates your needed calories for what you need for daily life not including any exercise. So your deficit would work if you were to do no exercise. When you do exercise, you need to add more for fuel or else you are likely creating an unhealthy large deficit. Also, when you pick "I want to lose 2 pounds a week", it subtracts a flat 1,000 calories per day from what it calculated your needs without exercise are. (if you chose 1 pound a week, it would subtract 500 calories).
Thanks for the added explanation!
I think exercise or no exercise I haven't been eating enough. 0 -
How many anorexics do you see that are fat? Starvation mode is a myth.0
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If you don't eat enough you will always ends up into starvation mode even if you are fat.
UNTRUE
Quite true, but "enough" is a vague term. If you eat below a certain threshold (which varies from person to person) for a long term period, you will enter starvation mode. What this means is that your body will burn lean muscle tissue as well as fat as a bid to conserve energy. It requires more calories to maintain muscle than fat, so your body preserves fat reserves against a possible long-term shortage. This won't happen over a couple days, but it will eventually happen, even if you're fat. At this point, you will still lose weight, but the majority will not be fat. This is part of why anorexics look so skeletal. Their bodies have burned off their muscle tissue before burning off fat tissue, so they have very little muscle left.
I did it to myself after college (I spent six months eating 300 calories a day and working out for a minimum of an hour). It took me several years to reset my metabolism, during which I gained 100 lbs (more than I lost in the first place). I weighed less then than I do now, but I had five percentage points higher body fat than I do now, so I have had first hand experience with this phenomenon. It isn't fun.0 -
Can't speak to the starvation 'mode' issue, but there's always a compensatory backlash against deprivation (uncontrolled eating afterwards ) + induced eating disorders. Sure, in the short-term, you could lose a whack of weight, probably. But then you either have to risk your health by never stopping starving, or risk gaining it back and then some when you return to eating anywhere near normally.
It's much more sustainable to have a small deficit, and lose weight over a longer period of time. The weight is more likely to stay gone. (How many Biggest Losers contestants gained it back? Someone must know.)0 -
You can eat 3000 calories of crap and your body can be starved for good nutrition, and be really stressed out without it. Include some food allergies in there, really bad response.
You can eat 1000 calories of great nutritious food and feel full, and your body can be starved for enough calories/energy for your level of activity.
As mentioned, the muscle mass burnoff is well documented and easily seen.
The only ones that don't have issues are study participants, where they hand pick those that usually have had no diets or weight changes in the last 3- 12 months and meet their criteria for amount to lose and base BMR, to show their bodies are ready to go. And the length of the program isn't to the point of reaching goal weight or sometimes anywhere near it usually, but just a time period where a lot is lost on low calorie diets, 6-12 weeks, or shorter sometimes.
Those that do resistance training and eat enough protein don't lose muscle mass or lower their RMR.
But they also stop the program before they get to the point where adjustments need to be made to the intake level.
And I've seen the follow up reports of those released from those studies that have either tried to follow the exact same regimen and ran themselves into the ground because adjustment was required at some point, or they gave up and failed eventually.
There are actually many on MFP trying to lose the weight they gained back after such a program, and their tested RMR did eventually go down when left to their own without daily or weekly checkups and fine tuning of a program for them.
I'd suggest first thing is get a Bodpod test. With known LBM, you can know what your BMR and RMR potential could be - though at this point it's likely not.
Don't do an RMR test unless personally curious how far below potential it is currently, with idea to fix it.
You eat to a suppressed RMR, you won't last long and probably won't lose any weight anyway.
But at least with potential, you know what you can start eating up to, and with lifting, perhaps get some muscle mass back.
A lifetime of yo-yo dieting, losing more muscle mass each time, is a bad life of aggravation and disappointment, ultimately ending in failure usually.0 -
How many anorexics do you see that are fat? Starvation mode is a myth.
Look fat, or actually have a high % of fat compared to their weight even if it doesn't look like it?
They do jiggle where they have something to jiggle, because underlying muscle is about non-existent, with decent layer of fat on top. And the organ damage because those have been broken down.
Compare the thickness of their skin to a pro bodybuilder with very small % of fat.
And the ease by which they gain fat if they eat even a little bit more, because anything over their current extreme low eating level is surplus, with a body that knows exactly what to do with those extra calories in case the craziness continues.0 -
always get away with as much calories as you can so when you hit sticking points you have some numbers to work with to drop calories0
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Bump0
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Of course you can.... your body just eats muscle leaving you with fat. The longer you do it, the more time it will take to reverse the damage you have done to your metabolism. It can be done though, I've seen folks in their 50s turn it all around with patience, dedication and hard work
any links to a program you've seen used with success?
I can't really comment on a specific program.. all I can say though is of what I've seen, the people involved upped their calories and properly nourished their bodies. I think you mentioned having some health issues, I would ask around and see if there is anyone else out there who has the same one and ask what they are doing. If I had the same issues, I would happily oblige. 0 -
Can't speak to the starvation 'mode' issue, but there's always a compensatory backlash against deprivation (uncontrolled eating afterwards ) + induced eating disorders. Sure, in the short-term, you could lose a whack of weight, probably. But then you either have to risk your health by never stopping starving, or risk gaining it back and then some when you return to eating anywhere near normally.
It's much more sustainable to have a small deficit, and lose weight over a longer period of time. The weight is more likely to stay gone. (How many Biggest Losers contestants gained it back? Someone must know.)
I appreciate you replying, but I think you missed the essential point that I have ALREADY been reducing calories and NOT losing weight. I wasn't losing with an average small deficit, medium deficit, and not even a large deficit. (though obviously there are folks here - and everywhere quite honestly, that can't quite believe I can be so large and eat so little - so I MUST be closet eating or miscounting, or mismeasuring). I know full well about the risk of gaining... having regained the 40 lbs and more that I'd lost prior to having kids. I know a decent amount about bodybuilding, being fit. And eating healthy for different programs (because there is a wide range of what people consider "healthy" depending on what program they ascribe to. I knew that eating so little couldn't be good for me, but prior to this I felt that at some point my body MUST start letting go of the fat. Now having being doing reduced cals at various levels for the last few years, I think I can safely say that for ME, something is messed up. How I fix it - I'm not exactly sure yet.0 -
Of course you can.... your body just eats muscle leaving you with fat. The longer you do it, the more time it will take to reverse the damage you have done to your metabolism. It can be done though, I've seen folks in their 50s turn it all around with patience, dedication and hard work
any links to a program you've seen used with success?
I can't really comment on a specific program.. all I can say though is of what I've seen, the people involved upped their calories and properly nourished their bodies. I think you mentioned having some health issues, I would ask around and see if there is anyone else out there who has the same one and ask what they are doing. If I had the same issues, I would happily oblige.
ok - I think I was looking for specific examples like hey - see that person over there - they lost X amount, went through something similar etc. This is the program they used. But no worries - I'll keep looking on my own for said examples. I've connected already with a few people who have PCOS - but other than that, Sjogren's is fairly rare, and a lot of whatever the else I'm going through which the docs haven't figured out yet - they haven't "labeled" yet - so I've been a bit unsuccessful in locating other people in similar situations. Thanks for the advice though, I do appreciate that at least you took the time to reply (civily and respectfully).0 -
no... not really. it will eventually kick in and use its fat stores...
So far not the case for me - but perhaps it might have if I'd fasted with no meals whatsoever for weeks. Obviously no healthy minded person would recommend that though, and I don't think I want to go there myself.0 -
lol well no wonder I couldn't find my thread on the nutrition board... apparently I posted it on fitness and exercise.0
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I didn't have time to read the whole thread but have you seen an endocrinologist? Preferably a woman that specializes in women's issues.
I started my journey at 250 about 2 years ago. I have had a diagnosed underactive thyroid for years. I would work out, eat well (not perfectly) and not lose a thing. I finally found a new endocrinologist who looks at the whole body - emotional, physical, nutritional. She's crazy but man, she knows her stuff. She added a small amount of a different thyroid hormone to my regimen and I have been able to lose weight! Slowly and steadily. I also took a nutrition class that focused on clean eating and knowing your body type.
I'm now just 18.4 pounds shy of my first goal of 160. I'd like to be 150 but I know that I am going to have to learn to be 160 for awhile before I can get down to 150. (Goal is to maintain 160 for a year, add on more muscle mass and then go for the last 10.) But it has taken me 2 years to get here. I was plateaued at 190 for the longest time - about 6 months through the winter so I added in this site and it is now coming off again.
I have found that sometimes I eat too few calories but am full. The past two days when it has been hot and humid I only ate about 1000 but it was quality veggies and lean meat and I was honestly full and really didn't want to eat. (My goal is set to 1230 before adding in earned exercise calories.) But I know I am going to use those calories on a date tomorrow night
so I try to look at the whole picture of the week not the individual day.
Don't give up! It is possible!!
ETA: Doing the math I've only lost about a half a pound a week over the two years. Of course some weeks it is 4 and some weeks it is 0. It is hard when it is 0 for a long time. I sometimes think my body is a slow learner. 0 -
I didn't have time to read the whole thread but have you seen an endocrinologist? Preferably a woman that specializes in women's issues.
I started my journey at 250 about 2 years ago. I have had a diagnosed underactive thyroid for years. I would work out, eat well (not perfectly) and not lose a thing. I finally found a new endocrinologist who looks at the whole body - emotional, physical, nutritional. She's crazy but man, she knows her stuff. She added a small amount of a different thyroid hormone to my regimen and I have been able to lose weight! Slowly and steadily. I also took a nutrition class that focused on clean eating and knowing your body type.
I'm now just 18.4 pounds shy of my first goal of 160. I'd like to be 150 but I know that I am going to have to learn to be 160 for awhile before I can get down to 150. (Goal is to maintain 160 for a year, add on more muscle mass and then go for the last 10.) But it has taken me 2 years to get here. I was plateaued at 190 for the longest time - about 6 months through the winter so I added in this site and it is now coming off again.
I have found that sometimes I eat too few calories but am full. The past two days when it has been hot and humid I only ate about 1000 but it was quality veggies and lean meat and I was honestly full and really didn't want to eat. (My goal is set to 1230 before adding in earned exercise calories.) But I know I am going to use those calories on a date tomorrow night so I try to look at the whole picture of the week not the individual day.
Don't give up! It is possible!!
ETA: Doing the math I've only lost about a half a pound a week over the two years. Of course some weeks it is 4 and some weeks it is 0. It is hard when it is 0 for a long time. I sometimes think my body is a slow learner.
Thanks for the encouragement - yes. I see an endocrinologist for the PCOS and blood sugar stuff, unfortunately because my thyroid is "lab normal" (just within normal) - she so far won't treat me. I plan on going back in to her to bring up some of this stuff though... yet again. I've lost more hair (on the sides though - not in the typical PCOS spots), and my tongue has started swelling at night - I wake up with teeth marks in the side of it? Of course - if I haven't been eating enough then perhaps the hair is falling out due to that.
I have a few other hypothyroid symptoms, but again - always just within 'lab normal'.
When I was losing weight previously with the body for life - it was the same for me - several lbs one week, sometimes none for weeks - it's hard but you do learn to get through it. It took me 3 years to go from size 22 to 14, I lost 38 lbs and went from 50% body fat to 26% (caliper measurements). I still wasn't where I wanted to be when the shoulder injury happened, and then life after kids - I let it derail me. At this point I'd be totally stoked with 1/4 a lb a week average loss.0 -
I've not read all of the comments. But I really urge you to get off wheat and gluten- it is likely causing many of your problems- food going through you aka the runs, unexplained weight gain, inability to lose weight, loss of appetite, , vertigo, Fibromyalgia, depression, pain in your joints and muscles- that was me in a nut shell and a lot more before I went gluten free - except for the Fibromyalgia... I have Celiac Disease and a lot of what you talk about are symptoms of this disease- it affects the entire body.. Many people don't realize gluten intolerance /sensitivity to wheat cause more than just tummy issues.All caused by the body's inability to process the proteins in wheat, barley rye and oats.. At the very least go gluten free for a month just to test it and see if you feel better, if you begin to lose weight . I am two years post being gluten free and nearlly all of my symptoms have disappeared.. I have dropped weight .not as fast as I would like but it's coming along.. The main thing is my body is healing and I feel 100% better. Good luck hun. If you want more info on gluten free /celiac disease feel free to message me.
I've been trying to be gluten free for a while, mostly successful, save for again - the trip up meals when we're out and about on the weekend and end up eating out for a meal. I wouldn't say that I'm 100% free though - even eliminating those occasional meals out - I'm still getting small amounts of gluten in the soy sauce that I use to cook. I have noticed a link between eating gluten and a spike the next day in joint pain, fatigue, even a possible trigger for migraines. I've also noticed that after being off of it for a few weeks when I did have some - it triggered the gastric spasms and IBS issues big time. So far no weightloss with going gluten free though (perhaps that will come with time though if I"m eating enough)
Sending you a msg as I would def love any gluten free recipes, meals, and tips on finding gluten free food on the go (my biggest trip up at this point).0 -
It is actually quite difficult to go into starvation mode, especially if you are eating regularly. It's like the whole "I gained a lb but I have been exercising so it must be muscle" - Maybe but unlikely, it takes longer than a dew days at the gym to build 1lb of pure muscle.
You cannot be an over weight person, eat low calories and not lose weight. Metabolism may well slow but it soon picks up again.0 -
You can eat 3000 calories of crap and your body can be starved for good nutrition, and be really stressed out without it. Include some food allergies in there, really bad response.
You can eat 1000 calories of great nutritious food and feel full, and your body can be starved for enough calories/energy for your level of activity.
As mentioned, the muscle mass burnoff is well documented and easily seen.
The only ones that don't have issues are study participants, where they hand pick those that usually have had no diets or weight changes in the last 3- 12 months and meet their criteria for amount to lose and base BMR, to show their bodies are ready to go. And the length of the program isn't to the point of reaching goal weight or sometimes anywhere near it usually, but just a time period where a lot is lost on low calorie diets, 6-12 weeks, or shorter sometimes.
Those that do resistance training and eat enough protein don't lose muscle mass or lower their RMR.
But they also stop the program before they get to the point where adjustments need to be made to the intake level.
And I've seen the follow up reports of those released from those studies that have either tried to follow the exact same regimen and ran themselves into the ground because adjustment was required at some point, or they gave up and failed eventually.
There are actually many on MFP trying to lose the weight they gained back after such a program, and their tested RMR did eventually go down when left to their own without daily or weekly checkups and fine tuning of a program for them.
I'd suggest first thing is get a Bodpod test. With known LBM, you can know what your BMR and RMR potential could be - though at this point it's likely not.
Don't do an RMR test unless personally curious how far below potential it is currently, with idea to fix it.
You eat to a suppressed RMR, you won't last long and probably won't lose any weight anyway.
But at least with potential, you know what you can start eating up to, and with lifting, perhaps get some muscle mass back.
A lifetime of yo-yo dieting, losing more muscle mass each time, is a bad life of aggravation and disappointment, ultimately ending in failure usually.
Yep - I agree - quality of food matters just as much as quantity (which is probably my biggest beef with the standard "calories in < calories out" quote). I've looked around and I might actually be able to get a bodypod test done - I'm excited about that!0
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