Clean vs Processed - Bragging

Which is more my point. When both of these groups usually eat both clean and processed foods, shouldn't we all just agree that clean foods are good (because there really isn't any evidence that eating natural food is unhealthy) but that in today's society few people eat that way all the time, and that it's not unhealthy to eat processed too?

This is right! Most people do both.

From what I've seen, the "clean" eaters take flexible dieting and turn it into something it's not. They chastise it by saying there is not way you can eat poptarts all the time and be healthy. The point that is being missed is that most flexible dieters eat nutritious foods 80-90% of the time. When they talk about eating poptarts, ice cream, etc., it's just for fun and not meant to be a major part or their daily intake.

Right. That's my point. Most everyone eats both clean and unclean. So why do some wish to portray that they do one and some the other?

I think someone had the right idea earlier when they said it comes down to what you are more proud of (paraphrasing their answer). Some are proud that they've cleaned up their diet, even if not 100%, while some are proud that they haven't had to give up the processed stuff.

But eating clean is not just about eating non-processed foods. It's about eating non GMO foods and responsibly raised meats. Just eating fresh fruits, veggies and meats is not clean eating. Unfortunately, GMO's have even snuck their way into organic produce so unless you are buying local organic (farmer's markets), it's hard to eat clean. And FWIW, I have never met a person who eats 100% clean!

Ding! Ding! Ding! Reasons I stay well away from the clean eaters. Nothing will ever be good enough until we're living in meadows in little mushroom shaped houses, singing songs, and dancing around campfires while raising our food with a wooden hoe and a flint stone knife.

The clean eaters probably feel like they are eating really well and want to feel proud about it.

The 'dirty' eaters are probably proud they can eat processed food and still hit their goals.

I'm neither of these people so this is only speculation. I'm sure it will all kick off with the members of each gang in due time

well i have a sense of pride in that i was able to overcome my addictions to food, but it was an inward sense of great accomplishment, aka a sense of pride. thats what we should all feel when we overcome something that was plaguing us.

The only way for me to eat clean is if i wash Big macs or double stuff oreos.

That's a little off topic, but to stay on topic: Why did you feel compelled to come and share that tidbit with us?

who CARES about this topic lol. let this topic burn in that special spot in hell the contributors have created for it.

I agree OP... both sides get craaaaazy then call the other ones crazy. I was really interested in hearing all the arguments on both sides... but I don't feel like reading through 10 pages of obnoxious.

Can you please tell me your definition of natural?

Not sure I'd call it bragging, but I do IIFYM, and I've been told by so many people that I can't be healthy unless I eat exclusively unprocessed, natural foods, so it just feels good that I'm healthy eating food that tastes good, and not depriving myself.

^^^ this. I post on threads saying things like "I eat "unhealthy" foods in moderation and still maintain a healthy body composition" because I want others to see that it's possible to do this. I wouldn't call it boasting, just providing information to counteract the claims by many (not just on this forum but everywhere) who claim that you have to give up (add long list of foods here) to be successful at weight loss. It's not true. You don't have to. You have to feed your body the nutrition it needs without going OTT on certain nutrients. Some foods will help you achieve that better than others, but all foods are okay so long as you're careful about portion sizes and not eating too much of certain nutrients, when you view your diet as a whole.

I agree wholeheartedly that when you look at what everyone's actually eating, it's mostly the same. The main difference is that the IIFYM people eat what small amounts of "junk" food they can squeeze into their macros and feel happy about it, while the clean eaters who try to eat 100% clean often get tempted and eat similar amounts of junk food, yet feel guilty and stressed about it. (and those who say they eat 80% clean or whatever percentage and don't feel guilty, but call themselves clean eaters, actually are following the philosophy of IIFYM without being so strict about it, so shouldn't have any beef with IIFYMers who are doing the exact same thing as them, just IIFYMers are stricter about counting the macronutrients in the "junk food" they eat and ending up with a balanced diet at the end of each day). My main message would be call yourself what you like but lose the guilt and stop telling people that eating a small amount of "junk food" as part of a healthy, balanced diet is going to do anyone any harm (medical issues not included).



[tongue somewhat in cheek]

as to why it becomes such a big fight all the time, it's because we're primates and when you understand how primate social systems work, peoples' behaviour on internet forums makes a whole lot more sense. Basically, when someone challenges your opinion, it triggers some innate primate neural networks that makes you see it as a threat to your position in the dominance heirachy, and if it's someone who's not on your friends list or you haven't seen around that much that's challenging you, you see it as a challenge from someone who's right at the bottom of the dominance heirachy, so you're quite indignant about being challenged by them, so you react the same way any other primate reacts when their position in the dominance heirachy is challenged... i.e. by asserting your position. If we weren't so constrained by our primate brain wiring, we might be able to view their opinion objectively, consider it carefully, and argue against it using logic and reason. Instead we resort to chest beating and stick waving and argue back indignantly without fully considering what they have to say, and feel this strong primal urge to defend our position rather than questioning whether we're actually correct or not.

[/tongue somewhat in cheek]

This'll make someone's head explode.

I dont know why people are so catty about either group

congrats on being able to eat processed
congrats on being able to eat unprocessed.

some people like eating processed, some people dont like the taste (i havent liked the taste of processed since told im prediabetic and started to actually chew my food, have you ever chewed bread more than 5 times?)

Labels are bad, even nutritional labels on food are wrong to a degree.

GMO is processed food. If the food has been altered by man, it's processed. In the US, food may not be labeled organic if it is GMO. Local doesn't matter for clean eating. At least not as it was originally defined way back in the day.

I realize there are any number of bastarized definitions these days, but when I first heard of the term clean eating (many years ago) it was all about processing. All about man's involvement in the food chain (or the lack thereof). It's about natural food. Shipping is not processing as it does not change the natural state or content of food.

GMO is genetically modified food. Genetically modified by man - meaning adding, reducing or mutating genes. GMO's are in a lot of processed foods, but there are processed foods out there with no GMOs. Processed food is food that has had so much stuff added to it or had to be purified or preserved in some way just to be edible (basically packaged, canned). And where I live, locally grown does matter for eating clean. By eating locally grown produce, I know exactly where it's coming from. I know the lemons and apricots come from a tree in my yard, my apples, strawberries, lettuce, etc. from a small family farm 30 minutes away that I can actually go and pick myself if I had time to! Exactly what do you mean by 'natural'? Just curious.

All the clean eating debates lately have made me very curious about something. Why is that some feel the desire to brag about how much preprared or processed or junk (or whatever term you like) food they eat, while others brag about eating clean?

Often, if you check the open diaries, both contain both good amounts of both clean and processed/preprepared foods. So, what is it that makes 2 different people who eat similar diets brag about and deny/not mention the different parts of their diet?

I think that it's basically this:

"processed food eaters"- their point is that it's not necessary to be excessively restrictive in the types of food you eat as long as you hit your macros and calorie goals. The idea being if people are restricting themselves too much, they will eventually fall off the bandwagon and binge/relapse/quit.

"clean food eaters"- this crowd thinks that for your health and wellness, it is imperative that you eat whole unprocessed foods as much as possible. Some people go extreme, like 100% raw foodism, but a lot are moderates- ie. I eat mostly whole foods, but I go out to eat once in a while, make exceptions now and again. They want to encourage people to eat more whole foods because the more whole foods you eat, the more you prefer whole foods. You actually lose the taste for processed foods (I can't stand a lot of processed crap after eating mostly whole foods for a number of years). They are also correct that whole foods have more vitamins and nutrients and fiber than processed food.

It's like catholics and protestants fighting, in my opinion. I just couldn't care. You are what you are. Just don't tell me that I have to eat ALL whole foods or that eating whole foods is a "load of bunk" and I'm good with you.

My question is.. Do you react the same way in these threads as you do in real life? If you feel its important that you inform the public about health issues/non-issues do you normally jump on people when they say things you disagree with?

I ask because on a weekly basis, I get unsolicited advice on weight loss. In the past month I have been told about: Atkins...Plexus Slim... Eating Clean.. Stuff they saw on Dr. Oz...Crossfit...Fear of getting bulky from Crossfit... and some kind of spray that you put under your tounge.... So if I hear all of these things all of the time.. then surely you hear them pretty often. Do you react by being a jerk and bragging about the poptarts that you ate?