Question for self professed "sugar addicts"

I quoted her, and told her, it is irrelevant - so yes? Yes i did.

If you had kept your nose out, we wouldn't be having this conversation - it's because of threads like this people start to worry about their MEASLY 60g sugar content when they don't have to.

It's more because MFP has a sugar default target that isn't related to anything.

I quoted her, and told her, it is irrelevant - so yes? Yes i did.

If you had kept your nose out, we wouldn't be having this conversation - it's because of threads like this people start to worry about their MEASLY 60g sugar content when they don't have to.

It's more because MFP has a sugar default target that isn't related to anything.

I agree, but these threads don't help issues when you've got a bunch of information which isn't even true floating around all day.

I get that, but regardless - Food is delicious and it feels good to eat food you love, but there is nothing GOOD to come from it, as in.. you will get fat if you keep consuming.

Gambling: Win lots of money, Lose lots of money.

Win = Feel great

Lose = Feel sad

Food: Eat food and claim addiction

eat it = get fat

don't eat it = dont get fat

It's not comparable to a food addiction, so its irrelevant?

It's entirely relevant.

Gambling:

Win = Feel great
Lose = Feel sad

Eating:
Eat = feel great
Get fat = feel sad

What you do are refusing to see is is that with behavioral addictions, it is the "Feel Great" part that makes the addiction!

Gamblers continue to gamble, even when they have lost tremendous amounts of money they could not afford to lose, because they have become addicted to the high provided by the "feel great" part of gambling.

This is true for any behavioral addiction, whether it is sex, internet games, checking your cell phone messages, pornography, or whatever.

I notice you are still not answering the question regarding gambling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_gambling

Although the term gambling addiction is used in the recovery movement,[1] pathological gambling is considered by the American Psychiatric Association to be an impulse control disorder rather than an addiction.[2] However, for the DSM 5.0 Pathological Gambling is being considered as an Addictive Disorder as opposed to an impulse-control disorder.

Currently, gambling is considered an "impulse control disorder":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_control_disorder

Just like Kleptomania or compulsive shopping.

These things are not "made up".

I think you're missing the important part I keep trying to get across.

From gambling; there is a chance of a GREAT outcome, to un-do all the bad you've done if you've lost money, as an example.

From eating, there is NO chance of ANY great out come, you're just going to continue to get fatter.

If the person can't realise that, they're stupid, surely?

I quoted her, and told her, it is irrelevant - so yes? Yes i did.

If you had kept your nose out, we wouldn't be having this conversation - it's because of threads like this people start to worry about their MEASLY 60g sugar content when they don't have to.

You told it was irrelevant to anything. that is nonsense. If you wanted my nose out you shouldn't have posted on a public forum.

My trigger foods tend to be carbs aka sugar - my whole diet was pretty much carbs and processed sugars. Once I cut all of that out and I started eating Fruits and Vegetables, I lost a lot of weight.
I would commend anyone on a highly processed diet of chips and cookies and pizza to pick up a piece of fruit because the damage the fruit has isnt near comparable to the sugar in Chips Ahoy.
That being said, once they get the processed sugar under control , then they can focus on their sugar levels in fruit etc etc .

This was my experience also.

I do not think there is anything "magical" about cutting out processed foods. It's probably healthier for you just because of the lack of chemicals, but that's beside the point.

The biggest problem with processed foods is that they are extremely calorie dense and extremely tempting to eat.

When you cut them out of your diet and eat only "natural" foods you will find that there simply aren't that many natural foods that you can eat to satisfaction and gain weight on.

You can eat two slices of pizza and take on 700 calories. Try eating a similar volume of any kind of "natural" food and try and hit 800 calories.

Very hard to do.

When you cut out high-carb foods you are going to naturally be cutting out calorie-dense foods and tempting foods. Makes it much easier to lose weight.

Actual logic should be redundant at this point but it's not.... nice explanation

I quoted her, and told her, it is irrelevant - so yes? Yes i did.

If you had kept your nose out, we wouldn't be having this conversation - it's because of threads like this people start to worry about their MEASLY 60g sugar content when they don't have to.

You told it was irrelevant to anything. that is nonsense. If you wanted my nose out you shouldn't have posted on a public forum.

For her, it is. Therefor, it is not nonsense. From her post she clearly was worried about her sugar intake as if it was damaging her, she didn't mention a medical issue - she does not need to worry about her sugar intake.

Have a great day.

I quoted her, and told her, it is irrelevant - so yes? Yes i did.

If you had kept your nose out, we wouldn't be having this conversation - it's because of threads like this people start to worry about their MEASLY 60g sugar content when they don't have to.

You told it was irrelevant to anything. that is nonsense. If you wanted my nose out you shouldn't have posted on a public forum.

For her, it is. Therefor, it is not nonsense. From her post she clearly was worried about her sugar intake as if it was damaging her, she didn't mention a medical issue - she does not need to worry about her sugar intake.

Have a great day.

It might be damaging her.

I think you're missing the important part I keep trying to get across.

From gambling; there is a chance of a GREAT outcome, to un-do all the bad you've done if you've lost money, as an example.

From eating, there is NO chance of ANY great out come, you're just going to continue to get fatter.

If the person can't realise that, they're stupid, surely?

What you are missing here is that the definition of "Feels great" varies from person to person. It's not necessarily the magnitude of the pleasure reward that dictates the addiction. Any source of pleasure can be addicting.

For eating, there is a huge chance of a great outcome - the pleasure you experience from eating it! And unlike gambling, which only pays off sometimes, yummy food pays off every time!.

And no, they aren't stupid for not realizing the downside of indulging in the behavior they are simply addicted and cannot stop!.

Most people with addictions are well aware of the negative consequences of their behavior. Many gambling addicts end up committing suicide because of it.

They aren't stupid and they absolutely realize the problem - they just can't control themselves.

You seem to be in denial about behavioral addictions. I suggest you read up on it.

Also - if a person is functioning, ie going to work, living 'normally', maintaining relationships - then they're not an addict, medically speaking.

Completely false. Many smokers go to work, live normally, and maintain relationships, but they are addicted to nicotine through a physiological addiction, and my be behaviorally conditioned to smoke also.

Even for behavioral addictions, many people are high-level functioning, at least until and unless the behavior catches up with them (i.e. gambling, kleptomania, video games, etc.)

OP: since you have absolutely no experience with metabolic disorders because you have never "let yourself go", I don't know why you feel the need speak on this topic. Yet again.

To answer your question: fruit is indeed something that needs to be limited if one is a "sugar addict". But nothing here applies to you, so why don't you just forget about it?

When you cut them out of your diet and eat only "natural" foods you will find that there simply aren't that many natural foods that you can eat to satisfaction and gain weight on.

You can eat two slices of pizza and take on 700 calories. Try eating a similar volume of any kind of "natural" food and try and hit 800 calories.

Are avocado and baby back ribs unnatural?

REALLY? Which way did that hair split, left or right? Don't worry, whichever direction you pick I will sit here and argue against.

The original argument was correct and doesn't need to have its miniscule holes exposed. It was sound advice and good proof for why "clean eating" is not a magic weight loss plan.

:laugh: This made me laugh, given the thread topic.

Diagnostic criteria for 312.31 Pathological Gambling

A. Persistent and recurrent maladaptive gambling behavior as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. is preoccupied with gambling (e.g. preoccupied with reliving past gambling experiences, handicapping or planning the next venture, or thinking of ways to get money with which to gamble)
2. needs to gamble with increasing amounts of money in order to achieve the desired excitement
3. has repeated unsuccessful efforts to control, cut back, or stop gambling
4. is restless or irritable when attempting to cut down or stop gambling
5. gambles as a way of escaping from problems or of relieving a dysphoric mood (e.g. feelings of helplessness, guilt, anxiety, depression)
6. after losing money gambling, often returns another day to get even ("chasing" one's losses)
7. lies to family members, therapist, or others to conceal the extent of involvement with gambling
8. has committed illegal acts such as forgery, fraud, theft, or embezzlement to finance gambling
9. has jeopardized or lost a significant relationship, job, or educational or career opportunity because of gambling
10. relies on others to provide money to relieve a desperate financial situation caused by gambling

B. The gambling behavior is not better accounted for by a Manic Episode

Diagnostic criteria for Substance Dependence

A maladaptive pattern of substance use, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of the following, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:
1. tolerance, as defined by either of the following:
a. a need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve intoxication or desired effect
b. markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of the substance
2. withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following:
a. the characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance (refer to Criteria A and B of the criteria sets for Withdrawal from the specific substances)
b. the same (or a closely related) substance is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms
3. the substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended
4. there is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control substance use
5. a great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain the substance (e.g. visiting multiple doctors or driving long distances), use the substance (e.g. chain smoking), or recover from its effects
6. important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of substance use.
7. the substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance (e.g. current cocaine use despite recognition of cocaine-induced depression, or continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made worse by alcohol consumption)

Specify if :
With Physiological Dependence: evidence of tolerance or withdrawal (i.e. either item 1 or 2 is present)
Without Physiological Dependence: no evidence of tolerance or withdrawal (i.e. neither item 1 or 2 is present)

Source: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR)
American Psychiatric Association

Edited for typo

Diagnostic criteria for 312.31 Pathological Gambling

A. Persistent and recurrent maladaptive gambling behavior as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. is preoccupied with gambling (e.g. preoccupied with reliving past gambling experiences, handicapping or planning the next venture, or thinking of ways to get money with which to gamble)
2. needs to gamble with increasing amounts of money in order to achieve the desired excitement
3. has repeated unsuccessful efforts to control, cut back, or stop gambling
4. is restless or irritable when attempting to cut down or stop gambling
5. gambles as a way of escaping from problems or of relieving a dysphoric mood (e.g. feelings of helplessness, guilt, anxiety, depression)
6. after losing money gambling, often returns another day to get even ("chasing" one's losses)
7. lies to family members, therapist, or others to conceal the extent of involvement with gambling
8. has committed illegal acts such as forgery, fraud, theft, or embezzlement to finance gambling
9. has jeopardized or lost a significant relationship, job, or educational or career opportunity because of gambling
10. relies on others to provide money to relieve a desperate financial situation caused by gambling

B. The gambling behavior is not better accounted for by a Manic Episode

Diagnostic criteria for Substance Dependence

A maladaptive pattern of substance use, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of the following, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:
1. tolerance, as defined by either of the following:
a. a need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve intoxication or desired effect
b. markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of the substance
2. withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following:
a. the characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance (refer to Criteria A and B of the criteria sets for Withdrawal from the specific substances)
b. the same (or a closely related) substance is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms
3. the substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended
4. there is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control substance use
5. a great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain the substance (e.g. visiting multiple doctors or driving long distances), use the substance (e.g. chain smoking), or recover from its effects
6. important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of substance use.
7. the substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance (e.g. current cocaine use despite recognition of cocaine-induced depression, or continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made worse by alcohol consumption)

Specify if :
With Physiological Dependence: evidence of tolerance or withdrawal (i.e. either item 1 or 2 is present)
Without Physiological Dependence: no evidence of tolerance or withdrawal (i.e. neither item 1 or 2 is present)

Source: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR)
American Psychiatric Association

Edited for typo

Off topic much?

Eh. There has been mention of addiction throughout the thread, specifically substances and gambling.

If a person drinks coffee every day and then stops they are going to get a "caffiene" headache..why because their brain is chemically addicted to caffeine while they also may have the physical habit of reaching for coffee.

While caffeine is not has hard to quit as heroin and the withdrawal symptoms are not as strong It is still an additiction. Just because it is a socially acceptable addiction does not mean it is not one.

In contrast a person who has an addiction to sugar resulting in overeating and obesity does not have a socially acceptable addiction.

Some would argue that having one alcoholic beverage once a week with friends is not an addiction but if the only thing you ever do with friends is drink alcohol..it begins to take on new levels of acceptability.

I think I probably am addicted to sugar like others have said, I can not just eat a little bit and be fine. I also don't gamble or drink because when exposed to those I think I would also crave them more than others. Maybe I have an addictive personality...don't know but I can attest that when I crave sugar I feel physically ill, sweaty, heart racing, will spend money that I dont have...any of the above until I get it and then afterward guilty and I have lied about food intake..

Funny thing where I see it different than other additions is that I do not always feel this way daily but I would say at least once a week. I take metformin because my fasting sugars are high but not through out the day.. I would like to see more research done on the topic.