Our culture is set up for obesity.

It is amazing how many people think that preferring an option to purchase a normal single meal when going out for dinner or lunch = wanting to police restaurants.

That an option of being required to purchase 2-3 dinners at that one seating (one fresh and 2 stale ones to take home) is a far more reasonable alternative to so many posters there than a normal portion size And that if this is not my preferred choice, than there is something wrong with me.

This! I completely agree with you 100% I can't believe how many people are taking this so personally. Also I can't believe how people can't acknowledge that culture does play a factor in the way we go about our lives! Yes in the end you are ultimately responsible for you but the way you were raised and the society you were raised in plays a big role in what decisions you end up making down the line.

I don't see many people taking this personally... but what I do see is a bunch of people making excuses as if what they do isn't at the very least partially their fault and they have no control over what happens to them.

Agreed with the bold part

Because the culture argument goes away when you have people immigrating into North America coming from cultures without this "large size" food issue and still getting obese....that is why I say it doesn't play a part...it's all about personal choices...

Just so I am clear....because American culture likes to large size everything, cars, boats, buildings, and for this topic food....it absovles people of bad personal choices to eat everything in those large sizes and prevents them from doing exercise???????

K still sounds like a cop out to me...but whatever

Just so you're clear -- you're the one only saying "it absovles people of bad personal choices to eat everything in those large sizes".

It sounds like a cop out, because that attitude is a cop out -- unfortunately, it's also a straw man, because you're the only one saying it.

I am the only one saying that our culture is not setting us up for obesity that it is our own personal choices do that? Interesting...I thought for sure that there were others saying the same thing...my bad.

It is amazing how many people think that preferring an option to purchase a normal single meal when going out for dinner or lunch = wanting to police restaurants.

That an option of being required to purchase 2-3 dinners at that one seating (one fresh and 2 stale ones to take home) is a far more reasonable alternative to so many posters there than a normal portion size And that if this is not my preferred choice, than there is something wrong with me.

This! I completely agree with you 100% I can't believe how many people are taking this so personally. Also I can't believe how people can't acknowledge that culture does play a factor in the way we go about our lives! Yes in the end you are ultimately responsible for you but the way you were raised and the society you were raised in plays a big role in what decisions you end up making down the line.

I don't see many people taking this personally... but what I do see is a bunch of people making excuses as if what they do isn't at the very least partially their fault and they have no control over what happens to them.

Agreed with the bold part

Because the culture argument goes away when you have people immigrating into North America coming from cultures without this "large size" food issue and still getting obese....that is why I say it doesn't play a part...it's all about personal choices...

That's a pretty great argument against your hypothesis, actually. People from other cultures come to America and get obese. A couple of things could be happening here:

1. There's something about American food itself that is inherently fattening (i.e. they are eating the same as they always have, and getting fat) -- I think we can rule that out.
2. They started to adopt American culture, and that was a factor in them gaining weight, or
3. A person who previously had ironclad willpower and no issues with overeating or lack of exercise, switched into an indolent, slothful fatty absent any external pressures or changes.

The third is pretty hard to believe.

I completely agree! I don't think it helps either when your parents tell you 'eat all that's on your plate- don't be rude!'

We do tell our daughter this - at home, and only if she is asking for some dessert and is claiming she's still hungry yet hasn't finished her meal, knowing that she likes the food on her plate. We don't supersize our plates at home, and I put a lot of healthy foods into our meal plan.

Perhaps the better plan would be to cut the dessert size rather than force her to finish the plate. Or switch desserts to fruit.

Here is an interesting article from cnn. I found plenty similar. I see none advocating telling a child to finish their plate.


Pushing kids to eat may cause obesity later – The Chart - CNN.com Blogs

While growing up, many children may have heard "clean your plate" or been denied candy. But how do parental attitudes toward food affect a child's weight?

Denying certain foods to children or pressuring them to eat every bit of a meal are common practices among many parents. But researchers at the University of Minnesota found parents who restricted foods were more likely to have overweight or obese children. And while those who pressured children to eat all of their meals mostly had children of normal weight, it adversely affected the way those children ate as they grew older, according to the study published Monday in the journal Pediatrics.

Investigators combined data from two separate research studies. The first, EAT 2010 (Eating and Activity in Teens), studied around 2,800 middle and high school students from public schools in Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota. Participants in the project responded to survey questionnaires designed to examine dietary intake and weight status.

Researchers combined that data with information from the Project F-EAT (Families and Eating and Activity Among Teens), a study designed to examine factors within the family environment on weight in adolescents.

From the combined information, researchers were able to gain a better understanding of how parents' approach to food and feeding is related to adolescents' weight. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, obesity now affects 17% of all children and adolescents in the United States - triple the rate from just a generation ago.

“We found that between 50 and 60% of parents from our sample reported requiring that their child eat all of the food on their plate at a meal," said researcher Katie Loth, the study's lead author. "Further, we found that between 30-40% of parents from within our sample reported encouraging their child to continue eating even after their child stated that they were full.

"While these pressure-to-eat behaviors were more frequent among parents of non-overweight adolescents, they were still endorsed quite frequently by parents of overweight and obese adolescents, indicating that many parents endorse these behaviors regardless of their child's current weight status," she said.

Researchers also found dads were more likely than moms to pressure their sons and daughters to eat, and adolescent boys were pressured more than adolescent girls.

“Parental pressure to eat can be detrimental to children because it takes away from a child's ability to respond naturally to their own hunger," said Loth. “Instead, (it) encourages them to respond to cues in their environment which can lead to unhealthy weight gain over time.”

The data also showed that restricting food from kids was a common practice of either parent, in both boys and girls.

“Research has shown that when a parent places a restriction on a particular food item (i.e. no treats) that a child becomes more interested in consuming that food item and will often overeat that food when given the opportunity,” Loth continued. “Instead, parents should be encouraged to allow their children to eat all foods in moderation.”

Investigators believe that parents should keep an eye on their child's weight and make an effort to better understand good eating practices, instead of worrying about whether their kids clean their plates or have a cookie now and then.

Study authors recommended such practices as eating regular family meals, having nutritious snacks at home, choosing healthy foods and encouraging young people to make better food choices as a way to fight weight problems, Loth said.

And most importantly,  “parents should also work hard to model healthy eating and a healthy relationship with food to their child" by eating a well-balanced diet, Loth said.

Something interesting to me. My DD is obese. But when she goes out to eat, she eats only till she is satisfied and stops....she NEVER finishes all her food. I end up taking it home and making another meal of it. I was always told that thin people eat till they are satisfied and stop. If that is so, my DD should be thin....but she isn't.

All I know... and this may be my post 3pm slump talking too... but all this talk about resturants and huge *kitten* portion sizes is making me want a freaking huge chicken fried steak (of which I will only eat about 1/3) smothered in white gravy with a side of fries....

Thankfully, I don't have any money at the moment to eat out...

All I know... and this may be my post 3pm slump talking too... but all this talk about resturants and huge *kitten* portion sizes is making me want a freaking huge chicken fried steak (of which I will only eat about 1/3) smothered in white gravy with a side of fries....

Thankfully, I don't have any money at the moment to eat out...

I'm wanting a giant pasta platter myself, with tiny chunks of crawdad and garlic bread on the side. I'm even willing to divide the serving in half and bring a delicious, jealousy inducing portion to work for lunch tomorrow.

Sadly no such dish is currently available in my town, and I don't care to go crawdad fishing after work. Kinda glad the Southern-style restaurant went out of business, they were the one place with food on the menu I can't make yet.

Even original portions are big! One slice of my homemade pizza is between 270-350 calories.

Even original portions are big! One slice of my homemade pizza is between 270-350 calories.

Err -- I think the picture has two slices at 500 calories.

This article is fairly long, but a good read. Im interested in what people think of it. It sounds a little condescending, but I can also see where she's coming from (a frustrated and discouraged surgeon's point of view).

http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2013/march/1361848247/karen-hitchcock/fat-city

An excerpt:

The doctors I work with have an excellent grasp of the bio-psycho-social factors that contribute to our patients’ states, but we are only doctors. All we have are the tools of our trade: our ears, our voices, our hands, our pills and our scalpels. The waiting rooms are full, the waiting lists are long, the demand is swelling. Obesity is in many ways the logical endpoint of the way we live. Prevention beats palliation, but we’d need psychologists, motivational speakers, social workers, dieticians and physiotherapists to work with us in order to have any hope of tackling the problem. We’d need policy makers and activists. All we have are doctors like me.

Ostensibly cheap food heavily taxes both the individual and the community in terms of disease and redirected health resources. If longevity and the avoidance of disease remain among humanity’s aims, we should try to prevent ourselves from getting very fat. Forget obesity as a disease; it’s a ruse. For whatever reason, the majority of the population can no longer say I have had enough. For whatever reason, the majority of human beings respond to advertisements inviting them to enter a pleasure state by eating a day’s worth of calories in one sitting, again and again. In the face of this, we are stuffed. We could say, “You are free agents, totally free, so pay for your own consequences.” We could make people pay at the point of choice, via a food tax, or we could limit choice. The other option, always unspoken, is: let us have our cake. Let’s just eat and eat, get fatter and fatter, and work out how best to live with it. This is where we are heading now: fatness, outside of morality, as an accepted consequence of the world as we have made it.

This article is fairly long, but a good read. Im interested in what people think of it. It sounds a little condescending, but I can also see where she's coming from (a frustrated and discouraged surgeon's point of view).

http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2013/march/1361848247/karen-hitchcock/fat-city

An excerpt:

The doctors I work with have an excellent grasp of the bio-psycho-social factors that contribute to our patients’ states, but we are only doctors. All we have are the tools of our trade: our ears, our voices, our hands, our pills and our scalpels. The waiting rooms are full, the waiting lists are long, the demand is swelling. Obesity is in many ways the logical endpoint of the way we live. Prevention beats palliation, but we’d need psychologists, motivational speakers, social workers, dieticians and physiotherapists to work with us in order to have any hope of tackling the problem. We’d need policy makers and activists. All we have are doctors like me.

Ostensibly cheap food heavily taxes both the individual and the community in terms of disease and redirected health resources. If longevity and the avoidance of disease remain among humanity’s aims, we should try to prevent ourselves from getting very fat. Forget obesity as a disease; it’s a ruse. For whatever reason, the majority of the population can no longer say I have had enough. For whatever reason, the majority of human beings respond to advertisements inviting them to enter a pleasure state by eating a day’s worth of calories in one sitting, again and again. In the face of this, we are stuffed. We could say, “You are free agents, totally free, so pay for your own consequences.” We could make people pay at the point of choice, via a food tax, or we could limit choice. The other option, always unspoken, is: let us have our cake. Let’s just eat and eat, get fatter and fatter, and work out how best to live with it. This is where we are heading now: fatness, outside of morality, as an accepted consequence of the world as we have made it.

This is pretty heavyhanded...but I think that what she's saying is:

Whatever the reason, whatever the cause, the solution has to come from you.

Whatever I hope healthcare will do in future is to say: "We are here to help you find those solutions because we realize how much work this takes."

I'm still making my way through the comments, but here's my two cents.

Are portion sizes out of control at a lot of restaurants? Yup.
Are a lot of meals at restaurants insanely unhealthy? Yup.

Do people have control over how much they eat? Yup.
Do people have the choice to not eat out? Yup.

My point is, I think both culture and individual choices both play a role. Almost all of the comments I've read so far are trying to make this a black and white issue, and you simply can't do that with this topic.

I think North America has leaned towards quick/cheap, and mostly unhealthy, meal choices for a while. The second post on this thread even highlighted how much larger portion sizes have become. Every day we are inundated by ads that depict huge burgers, "value" meals, etc. People see that stuff and it sticks in their mind- so when they're in a bind, is their first thought always "Hmm, maybe I should go pick up a quick salad from the store?" Usually, no. What comes to mind for many people is the most recent fast food/restaurant advertisement they saw.

Thankfully, I believe our country is starting to move away from that mindset. I've noticed that our country, as a whole, is becoming more aware of the importance of eating right/exercising. There seems to be a trend of "Fit is the new skinny", there are more restaurants making healthy-ish items available, etc.

As for everyone preaching the "Just don't eat out!", "Take 1/2 a day to prep your weekly meals!", etc arguments that's not always realistic (please note that I recognize there are many reasonable options being mentioned as well). We don't know what happens in the life of every other poster here. For some people it's totally possible to make all the right choices, eat left overs instead of eating everything at once, spend time doing weekly prep, etc but for some it may NOT be possible. Who are we to judge and argue 'til we're blue in the face "Yes you CAN do it simply because *I* can!". It's pointless. With that being said, I do 100% believe individuals need to take responsibility. The reality is we know what to expect at restaurants and fast food chains. It's very likely that as adults, we're going to slip up now and again and overeat, etc. If it happens, move on, and try to make changes in your life so it doesn't happen as often.

I think it would be great if at some point in the future businesses began to recognize the needs/desires of those who would like smaller, healthier portions. Do I think it's going to happen overnight? Surely not. But people who do desire that change are customers too- why shouldn't their needs be catered to in some capacity, just like they cater to the "big portions" crowd?

I hope all of that made sense. :flowerforyou:

On my recent trip to New Orleans, when I asked for people's recommendations for restaurants, I would get same comment from more than one person -- people rave about restaurants, because the portions are "MASSIVE". I felt that it would be a waste of time to explain to them that "massive" is not necessarily what I am looking for in a meal.

You don't have to eat all of it.

SIGH. how can I explain to a man with abs like this that leaving food in a vacation/food mecca like N.O. would be next to impossible for someone who grew up like me? It's easier on a 'resort' type vacation if you have a kitchenette..and can reheat for lunch.... but OH THE GLORY OF THAT FOOD THERE...you couldn't just LEAVE it! it would be sinful.. then again.. on vacation... just go for it!!! and walk a little more... or something.... indulging that infrequently won't hurt

Puhleaze...if I've said it once, I've said it 100 times. Calories do not count in New Orleans people. You get a huge pass to eat carte blanche...and do whatever else.

In regards to making kids eat everything on their plat make them fat.....not in our case,

We required my 5 kids to eat what we put on their plate....but it was small, seriously two bites of each item, then they were allowed to have more of whatever they wanted. We did not want "picky" kids, complaining kids, they are all adults now, not a single one is obese, or fat.

conversely, I know someone who was not forced to finish her food, she ate only what she wanted....she is now very, very overweight.

It's about portion size and what your eating. It's not healthy to eat the child eat only the corn served and nothing else, or not eat then go for a snack....

In regards to making kids eat everything on their plat make them fat.....not in our case,

We required my 5 kids to eat what we put on their plate....but it was small, seriously two bites of each item, then they were allowed to have more of whatever they wanted. We did not want "picky" kids, complaining kids, they are all adults now, not a single one is obese, or fat.

conversely, I know someone who was not forced to finish her food, she ate only what she wanted....she is now very, very overweight.

It's about portion size and what your eating. It's not healthy to eat the child eat only the corn served and nothing else, or not eat then go for a snack....

I do this with my kids also. You can have 2nds if you finish the veggies or what have you. You don't get to eat 3 pieces of garlic bread and leave the salmon and the salad lol. A friend of mine lets her kid eat cookies and crackers and granola bars all day "snacking" and then come dinner she leaves the more nutritious stuff. OF COURSE kids are going to choose what tastes good. Before you know if, you have a kid who will ONLY eat chips and sweets. A kid isn't going to starve if they miss a couple of meals but their growing bodies need nutrition not just full bellies. Let them miss a meal and I guarantee you they'll take down those eggs and berries the next morning :P