Smith machine or squat rack

Forget the smith machine and learn it right the first time.

dis.

Squat rack. There's nothing you can do on a Smith that free weights don't do better. Your ego will take a hit for a few weeks, but the massive gains you make will last a lifetime.

Also make sure you do them proper. Going heavy and half squatting squatting with terrible form will get you hurt.

Can any of you name one stabilizer muscle that is used in a barbell squat that isn't used in a smith machine squat?

To be honest, when I crack open my kinesiology or anatomy text books I can't find any reference to "stabilizer" muscles at all! It's almost like the entire muscle classification doesn't exist with the scientific literature!

http://doctoryessis.com/2013/01/02/what-are-stabilizer-muscles/

:laugh:

Muscle growth is caused by lifting to failure. Period. Your muscle doesn't give a damn about what the heck you use. There are advantages and disadvantages to using machines and free weights. Personally, I use both depending on my needs. People like Dorian Yates advocate the same philosophy, and that guy is a 6 time Mr. Olympian, so don't tell me you can't make gains using a machine.

This macho bs about the squat rack is really starting to irritate the crap out of me. Get to the gym. Move the weight until you cannot move it any more. Eat a bunch of protein. Profit.

Are you looking for the answer of what muscles aren't really utilized much at all in a smith machine (like internal obliques and transverse abdominus, which are used to keep the bar from pitching to one side or the other in a freeweight squat)? Or the answer of which muscles aren't utilized quite as well (muscle activity is almost twice as high in the quads when using a barbel as when using the Smith)?

Also, my muscles may or may not give a damn about what I use, but my joints/ligaments/tendons do, and squatting with a Smith changes the range of motion of the squat, putting more stress on your lower back and knees (2 places that are already probably not up to snuff for beginning lifters).

I have no beef with someone who feels more comfortable using the Smith Machine because of safety, but to claim there is no difference between the two is naive at best.

I never meant to convey that they are the same lifts. It's a fact that the smith machine reduces the role that the hips play in the movement, which is important if you are a competitive athlete. Anytime you use a machine, the muscle groups associated with the lift will be activated differently... I am skeptical of your claim regarding 50% more activation of the quads though....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19855308

Electromyographic activity was significantly higher by 34, 26, and 49 in the gastrocnemius, biceps femoris, and vastus medialis, respectively, during the free weight squat compared to the Smith machine squat (p < 0.05). There were no significant differences between free weight and Smith machine squat for any of the other muscles; however, the EMG averaged over all muscles during the free weight squat was 43% higher when compared to the Smith machine squat (p < 0.05). The free weight squat may be more beneficial than the Smith machine squat for individuals who are looking to strengthen plantar flexors, knee flexors, and knee extensors.

http://www.academia.edu/167785/A_methodological_and_performance_comparison_of_free_weight_and_Smith-machine_jump_squats

Only mean power was found to be dissimilar between conditions (p=0.000), with the free weight condition producing superior mean power values (ES=0.60-1.41). No other differences were observed. The results of this study suggest that both conditions are acceptable methods of assessing the lower body for strength and power qualities, but that some kinetic values may differ as a result of the testing procedures. It is important to note that this research used elite national-level volleyball players as its participants; as such care must be taken when applying these results outside this population.

[link]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=26&amp;ved=0CFsQFjAFOBQ&amp;url=http://media.wix.com/ugd/7aa42b_ee8b530450bcaea8c645bd9c3788d39c.pdf?dn=ContentServer.pdf&amp;ei=dAEuUvOPOIjS9gSE1IHoAg&amp;usg=AFQjCNFnaY4-DKudD8eUvJAx-cA-vh2o-w&amp;sig2=dCDE2yJ7RhQ5wRqZVI71Jw[/link]

The overall activation was greater in the first article because the lifters had to use the muscles around their knees more to prevent rocking horizontally, but everywhere else, there was no difference. There is zero evidence to support the claim that quads are activated 50% more during the lift, or that the joints and lower back are under more stress. I couldn't find any evidence to support either of those claims.

I am not saying it isn't true... I just can't find any research to support it.

I'm at work at the moment, but I'll try to provide you with a link to the study i referred to when I get home. I believe it was Canadian, but dont quote me on that part.

However, those muscles in the knee area you referred to? Part of your core stabilizing system in addition to the muscles I mentioned earlier. It isn't about muscle activity with core muscles, they aren't meant to create dynamic movement. It's about the load they can handle and still perform the functions of balance and stability.

Personally, I would prefer to do free weight squats if I had a lifting partner or a power cage. I do not have either of those luxuries, so lifting to failure takes priority. I don't know about you guys, but if I am in a squat rack with 400+ lbs on my back and I lift to failure, I could seriously hurt myself.

For those of you who have bad joints, I would recommend doing a higher rep count with less weight, or doing one set with an emphasis on time under tension and a slower cadence. Lifting a lot of weight, free weight or smith machine, will snap your **** up bad if you can't control the weight and have terrible form. A lot of people who try to lift heavy will compensate for the increased load by powering through their set faster and by leveraging momentum.

For example, the next time you guys do squats, time how long it takes you to do one rep. If you're reaching the bottom of your squat in less than 3 or 4 seconds, you are going too fast and not controlling the weight. F = MA. If you are accelerating on your downward motion, the force will be greater, and the strain on your joints and risk of injury will be greater.

If there is anything to stress about lifting, it is this, "Go slow." Time under tension has much greater value than an arbitrary set/rep count and it prevents you from getting injured. Set and Rep counts are essentially useless without a relationship to time.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22106173

Personally, I would prefer to do free weight squats if I had a lifting partner or a power cage. I do not have either of those luxuries

This is my issue as well. For those who would say "Get some free weights" or "go to a different gym" I say this: I can't afford to, so if you would like to contribute to my gym fund, I'll give you PayPal info. I would love to have just free weights/squat rack/whatever, or be able to afford to go to a gym with those available. I can't afford either one, so therefore I make do with the few weights and the Smith machine that I do have access to. FWIW, I do other forms of squats as well (body weight, dumbell, etc) and lunges, so it's better than nothing.

Personally, I would prefer to do free weight squats if I had a lifting partner or a power cage. I do not have either of those luxuries

This is my issue as well. For those who would say "Get some free weights" or "go to a different gym" I say this: I can't afford to, so if you would like to contribute to my gym fund, I'll give you PayPal info. I would love to have just free weights/squat rack/whatever, or be able to afford to go to a gym with those available. I can't afford either one, so therefore I make do with the few weights and the Smith machine that I do have access to. FWIW, I do other forms of squats as well (body weight, dumbell, etc) and lunges, so it's better than nothing.

I go to a nice gym and they don't have squat racks. Even with a squat rack though, you still need a lifting partner. I have seen guys in high school drop 600 lbs on a cheap squat rack and have observed how the momentum of the weight can make the rack tip over. Youtube is filled with videos like these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGf3oPiqmwA

Also, just to play devil's advocate here, I (and many others) go to gyms that may not be as full-featured when it comes to free weights; they cram as many cardio machines into the space as they can. My little satellite gym for example only has a smith machine and no free rack.

I don't think that is really devil's advocate since the OP has the option of both.

Personally, I would prefer to do free weight squats if I had a lifting partner or a power cage. I do not have either of those luxuries

This is my issue as well. For those who would say "Get some free weights" or "go to a different gym" I say this: I can't afford to, so if you would like to contribute to my gym fund, I'll give you PayPal info. I would love to have just free weights/squat rack/whatever, or be able to afford to go to a gym with those available. I can't afford either one, so therefore I make do with the few weights and the Smith machine that I do have access to. FWIW, I do other forms of squats as well (body weight, dumbell, etc) and lunges, so it's better than nothing.

I go to a nice gym and they don't have squat racks. Even with a squat rack though, you still need a lifting partner. I have seen guys in high school drop 600 lbs on a cheap squat rack and have observed how the momentum of the weight can make the rack tip over. Youtube is filled with videos like these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGf3oPiqmwA

If your squat rack is set up correctly, this isn't an issue because the weights don't have that far to fall. Also, properly dumping weights is a little different from dropping them like they did in that video. Not even a Smith Machine can fix stupidity.

This is my issue as well. For those who would say "Get some free weights" or "go to a different gym" I say this: I can't afford to, so if you would like to contribute to my gym fund, I'll give you PayPal info. I would love to have just free weights/squat rack/whatever, or be able to afford to go to a gym with those available. I can't afford either one, so therefore I make do with the few weights and the Smith machine that I do have access to. FWIW, I do other forms of squats as well (body weight, dumbell, etc) and lunges, so it's better than nothing.

Yeah I love how everyone's immediate answer is 'if your gym doesn't offer XYZ go find a new gym!" That's awesome for those people who have the luxury of a multitude of gyms in close proximity and that are (obviously) quite affordable. It's sadly not always the case.

I go to Planet Fitness. My husband has the black card so it's $20/month and I go for free No, they don't have a squat rack and have a smith machine but to quit there and go to the gym that does offer that would mean upping my membership to close to $100/month (for both of us) and if I wanted to take any of the exercise classes offered it'd be more money. Add in the fact that it would tack about 10-15 minutes on to my commute to the gym (currently it's about 1/2 an hour) I'll stick with PF based on the price and convenience. Does it suck not having a squat rack and some 'fancy' equipment? Sometimes yes but I make do by doing dumbbell squats and other things for my legs.

I think if you total up the fuel costs for that 60-minute round trip 3-4x per week, and the monthly dues on top of it, a nice used set of barbell weights becomes much more affordable. All you really need is a squat rack, a flat bench, an olympic barbell, and a set of iron. 2 of each size plate should be fine to start with. That can be had around here in great shape for less than $500, or less than a year of gym membership plus fuel. There's also the time factor... you would get back an hour of driving time in your day. I'm certainly not trying to tell you what to do, just pointing out that it might be more affordable than you think to build a very effective home gym.

Hey! Love squats and just got into heavy lifting! Is it best to use the Smith machine instead of the squat rack??

Squat rack, always always always.

Been using a Smith's machine for my 5x5 workouts and yesterday I tried with free weights. Much, much, harder and I could tell I had to really work to stabilize and use more muscle. I think the Smith's machine was a great way to start out and try to work on technique but at the same time it ended up hindering my technique to some degree and I nearly hurt my back doing military presses. I also had to start off using less weight when working with free weights so it was somewhat discouraging feeling like I was starting over again. But in the long run, I think free weights is a better choice.

Squat rack. /thread

I can tell you that both would be preferable to lifting that snake you have around your neck. Sorry, but eewww...