parents: college savings OR other enrichment activities?

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  • hookilau
    hookilau Posts: 3,134 Member
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    I paid for my own college and it REALLY made me think twice about skipping class. I definitely appreciated it much more. My parents helped, but I forked over most of it.

    We did this with our eldest & most adventurous child :laugh: First, we paid for her community college classes, she flunked & didn't go :huh: She decided she wanted to work & increased her hours to full time & enjoyed the fruits of her labor for a while....now she's back in school :bigsmile: This time, she's paying of it all on her own and she's going to EVERY. SINGLE. CLASS. :laugh:

    Even better, she's actually taking it seriously as she now sees at 24, that she's wasted a bit of time & she now has the maturity to see it through.

    I always knew she could do it, just was hoping she'd catch on before I closed my eyes for the last time :laugh:
  • Morninglory81
    Morninglory81 Posts: 1,190 Member
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    When did college tuition become the parents responsibility?
  • pteryndactyl
    pteryndactyl Posts: 303 Member
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    I don't have kids yet (sorry) but I fully intend on focusing on various types of enrichment more-so than strictly college savings. It's just not me, nor my lifestyle. I traveled as a kid. Some of my first memories are of having tea parties in ancient, abandoned castles in Spain. Then, my parents had some money issues and I was on my own for college. While I was in college, money became OK again and we started traveling again...I've been to 16 new countries within the last 5 years. Do I wish they had spent that money on my tuition? No! (I must add, my latest trip to Asia was largely funded by me as well.) I have traveled more extensively than most of my peers and I have a bigger worldview because of it. I understand cultural differences, I'm more empathetic, I'm more confident in myself, and I'm not so egocentric as to think my country is the only one that matters (not saying all, but many, Americans think so).

    Also, perhaps due to my own experiences, my chosen career field will likely take me abroad to live in another country so I wouldn't be surprised if my children not only traveled the world, but lived in various places too! (A sort of joke of mine, I'll consider myself a failure if my children aren't fluent in at least 2 languages by middle school.)

    That's my ~plan~, of course life can be unexpected so who knows. Basically, I'm all for alternative learning experiences. Your kids will learn so much more about the Great Wall by walking on it than they would out of a textbook.
  • NatalieWinning
    NatalieWinning Posts: 999 Member
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    I have 4 kids. 3 are in their mid to late 20's, one is 13. They all earned half their age allowance IF they did their progressive responsibilities. Clean the room by Sunday (if not by Sunday then they still have to clean it, but got no allowance) and extra job opportunities as well as responsibilities. I didn't keep the budget secret for adults only. We occasionally splurged and traveled. They are only young once. I didn't want close minded kids that never saw the world. If they wanted "junk" I had them buy it with their own allowance. They learned pretty quick that some junk isn't worth what they paid. They saved up for some of that junk and learned to make choices - first small and then large.

    I know the 13 year old is headed for College of some sort. The first did and had huge student loans, but is very responsibly paying them off. She had a paper route at 10yrs old (It was a great deal of work for me to oversee it at first but that's how they learn). She had plenty of money because she's always had a job, she's spent a lot on silly fun things, but she doesn't regret it at all. She still would rather have money for fun than "things". That's not a bad way to live. She's exceptional as a student and has a career she worked toward, doing very well. One joined the military and is getting his classes during the military on their bill, mostly. Also working his way up in that career while plodding away being a responsible adult. One wasn't cut out for school and maybe never will be. He's been taking care of his own business for years now, he's also made his own luck and is basically living a life that's pretty exciting overall, but also grounded in paying his way. In other words, they watched some of their peers take a dive because they never had to take care of their own stuff, and they turned out pretty mature with their budgets from early progressive practice. Going on to college was their choices, not mandated. I wished I had more, but it worked out so far.

    I pretty much gave all I had (not much) to the first child. We'll be doing the pitiful savings route for the last. They all worked when they were old enough and had spending money of their own and made choices like borrowing my car and having the deductible in the bank in case they wrecked it, or buying a car and making their own insurance payments. The older ones bought their own cell phones if they wanted one and handled the bill. Plenty of mistakes were made. What they do say is that they don't regret the money they wasted. And that they knew how to handle their money much better than their peers once they left home.

    Of course, it would have been ideal to have the college money help. But they turned out budget minded and frugal, yet still knew how to have fun. They did things, and were in things in a moderate way. They have all traveled all along, and done interesting things, and that continued into young adulthood. I think learning early a gradual budget responsibility that was on their terms was what made them responsible adults. I like that they aren't only focused on getting more things, too, but living life.

    In other words. Prepare as much as you can, but not instead of also having a life and getting experiences now. Teach them to be financially responsible, accountable, and still have as much fun as budgets allow. We're going somewhere cool every so often now that there is only one at home. Sometimes we have to stretch more than we should for it. But I know it's worth it. All things in moderation and flexibility.
  • MzManiak
    MzManiak Posts: 1,361 Member
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    I spend any extra money on their activities/ vacations/ etc. Once they go off to college/ join the miltary/ etc... I can spend that extra money on tuition, books, savings, whatever. No sense in humbugging it now, saving for the future, when the future is never really promised, kwim?
  • huango
    huango Posts: 1,007 Member
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    Thank you very much for your input and experiences.

    With these responses, now you see why I am often torn about our decision.

    Yes, it would be great to graduate w/out a TON of loans.
    - I had the most loans compared to my friends, which really limited my decisions when choosing my career/1st job. I HAD to take the higher paying job (so not fun and not my cup of tea: coding lines and lines in a cubicle) to pay off my large debt (quite small compared to what kids are graduating with today), unlike some of my friends who had options (or parents to support them while they get on their feet).

    Yes, my children will go to college, and live on campus.
    - I "GREW UP" so much during my 4 years at a great small engineering college. I learned so much, academically AND about life, about who I was, and made my life-long friends.
    - My cousins who lived at home while going to college had totally different experiences from me and I actually feel bad for them (not really, since they're doctors and lawyers now :) )
    - My kids are pretty left-brain so I do see a future in engineering or something along that path. So yes, definitely college-bound.

    We are pretty fortunate that our budget does allow for the basics which include:
    - food/shelter/clothing
    - swim lessons
    - musical lessons
    - foreign language school
    - sports fees (we know about ski-program costs, but haven't ventured into golf or sailing yet). Daughter might have to work at the ranch to pay toward her riding lessons.


    Many plans/ideas/trips:
    - Machu Picchu, Peru
    - Redwood forest/National park, CA
    - Italy for amazing Italian food/culture
    - Brazil for soccer/culture: GOAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!
    - skiing in Whistler, British Columbia


    Just read some more posts:
    - thank you very much for your advice/feedback.
    - Natalie "Prepare as much as you can... Teach them to be financially responsible, accountable, and still have as much fun as budgets allow." <--- I like that.
    - HumAlong: "I have a bigger worldview because of it. I understand cultural differences, I'm more empathetic, I'm more confident in myself.." <--- That is what I hope for my children, and I hope to be a positive influence/impact on my children based on our decision for life-experiences.


    Oh, yes, we need to do all of this stuff DURING school vacations or summer vacations, according to DH who does not like taking the kids out of school time. Yes, they will miss so much of art class where they glue 2 toilet paper tubes together to become binoculars.


    Don't get me started on my other thought:
    - If my children are smart/capable enough to get admitted into an Ivy League school, how can I as a parent not support that decision, but to suggest a less expensive school?

    While I don't see myself as a failure, I do regret that I was not good enough for MIT.
    I do truly loved my colleges (BS, MBA), but there's always that "did not get into top tier school".

    I have many years.
    DS flips between wanting to own a restaurant (he loves food) to wanting to be the fry guy (loves French fries) to wanting to cure cancer to being the best skier to being a ninja.
    DD wants to be Taylor Swift or an engineer "like Mommy" or a Mommy or a doctor or a vet or entomologist (she freaks me out with her comfort with bugs and worms/snails, she holds them like you would hold a ladybug).

    Appreciate more of your experiences.
    Thanks,
    Amanda
  • teresamwhite
    teresamwhite Posts: 947 Member
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    It's not required to pay for tuition for your kids...I get that. And I have no intention of paying for everything, and my kids know they have to get good grades and take advantage of opportunities as they present themselves in order to get the most out of their lives. They also save half of their allowances, lawn mowing and babysitting money, money from recycling, half their cash gifts for birthdays and the holidays, because they know they need to contribute financially for their futures, too. (My kids are 14 and 10, BTW) Our famlies are involved, too. Mine are the only kids with three bachelor uncles, and two uncles that are married, but no kids. So we respond, when they ask about gifts, "A savings bond would be nice! College ain't cheap!" My dad is really good about that...he is a no-nonsense military vet and he would prefer to give them an investment rather than a plastic toy that will be forgotten and donated next year.

    I believe it's my responsibility, though, to get them a good start in life, YMMV. I worked with them to read before they started kindergarten, for example. When they express an interest, we research it together and find ways to apply that.

    It costs me roughly $30 per month for each kid, since they were born, to build a cushion for them. That's 2-3 evenings of eating out for most families, or a serious afternoon's worth of clipping coupons for the month. To me, it's worth it so they can start their professional lives without crippling debt...not "be debt-free", but manageable on their expected incomes as new graduates.
  • NatalieWinning
    NatalieWinning Posts: 999 Member
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    One huge thing I learned is that you can't imagine for your kids what they will be or whats best. They are not you. They didn't grow up in your era. They will find it themselves and your experience and lifetime put on them will limit them. Direct them to a good direction and prepare them, yeah. But you can't imagine what their best road will be. What the best road to that will be. Those jobs may not be around, then. I couldn't have guided my kids to the places they put themselves. The background work was good. That was my job. Laying down a path would have put up walls for them. It didn't hurt they weren't too good to do what it took to get where they wanted to be. Build that kind of kid and step back and watch them bloom.
  • Momf3boys
    Momf3boys Posts: 1,637 Member
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    For those using 529's. Be careful. They seem scammy, sort of.

    Edited to add: I shouldn't use the word scammy. They aren't, but the rules around them are very tight, uncomfortably so. I decided that's a bad route.

    How so? I think each state is different...I live in Maryland. I chose the Prepaid college fund...it is guaranteed and backed by Congress (not that I trust Congress...lol). I paid for it when my children were infants. It guarantees that college tuition will be paid for. For instance, I paid the college tuition rates for the year 2000 yet my oldest son won't go until AT LEAST 2018...with the prepaid college fund he has up to 10 years AFTER he graduates high school to start college. There are also instances where you can be refunded the money. Also, if any of the kids get scholarships then the money can be used for other things, such as books and housing. I thoroughly researched the program before I gave a dime to it.

    There are lots of options out there and I'm in no way giving my kids a "free ride". However, my parents weren't in the position to assist me when it was time for me to go to college...I paid for what college I did attend, about a year and a half. I was extremely fortunate that I got the job that I got when I got it. I work for the federal government and I see who is hired. When I was hired they came to my high school and recruited...they don't do that anymore and they pretty much only look for people who have college degrees. I want my children to have the opportunity to go to school and further their education without the worry of starting out their adult life in extreme debt. We live in a different time now. A college degree doesn't guarantee you a job but it does assist you in obtaining one.
  • AliciaStinger
    AliciaStinger Posts: 402 Member
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    I supply my children with food and shelter. Can't really afford much else.

    This is my family. I'm 22 years old, and when your kids get to be my age, they may appreciate if you knew what I'm about to share with you: I was home schooled 3rd grade through 9th, and I know full well that I was able to retain information best when I was enjoying the experience. My parents traveled for business when I was little. I've been to 48 states and Canada. I saw three space shuttle launches, several natural landmarks (Garden of the Gods, Yellowstone Park, etc.), as well as national landmarks (Statue of Liberty, Liberty Bell, Jamestown Settlement, The Alamo, and Civil War battle grounds). I saw Hollywood, Elvis' birthplace, Graceland, and been to the homes of Mark Twain and Thomas Jefferson. BUT, traveling was how my parents brought in enough money to keep feeding and clothing two growing kids. These weren't just "enrichment activities"; this WAS our history and geography education, and it was on the way to where we needed to go.

    So, knowing that these things had a huge and lasting impact on me, what would I recommend? Buy your kids a museum pass and some Rosetta Stone software and SAVE FOR THEIR COLLEGE COSTS. Here's why:

    1. I'm 22 years old and I can't afford to finish college. It costs almost $5,000 per semester to go to my "cheap" state university, and they won't let me start a new semester until I've paid off the old one. Even with my full-time job, I can only afford 1.5 semesters of college per year. It shouldn't take seven years to complete my Bachelor's degree, but I don't have much choice.

    2. Your kids aren't going to remember this stuff in 10 years. They'll remember the car breaking down, and eating something that grosses them out, but all of the facts you want them to learn will be forgotten.

    (2a - By the way, maybe I'm just a stupid, poor kid, but what kind of "enrichment" is "sleep-away camp"? Take your kids to your local forest preserve or nature museum and let them have sleep overs. Same difference.)

    3. Don't sacrifice the education your kids need for one that does them no good. I admire your desire for your kids to have these wonderful and irreplaceable experiences, but a high school diploma just doesn't cut it anymore.

    4. When your kids get to be teens and young adults, their values and priorities are going to shift just a little bit. For example, between the trip to China and a small car, your 16 year old is most likely going to want the car. China is not going to make them look cool, get them to school or work, or take their dates to the movies. China is not going to relax them after a bad day, give them a place to scream out their frustrations, or cry/sing as loud as they want to a breakup song when they're heartbroken. There are pictures of the Ice Caps online; they're going to want to see something "exciting" like the nearest big city, or the next state over.

    5. Finally, if you put aside money for college, they can use it on whatever becomes most important to them. They may want to start a clinic or a food pantry. They may want to put down money on a house. They may want to travel (when they're old enough to remember the experience) to somewhere they've heard or read about. If they don't - if going to school and getting a degree is what they want to do - then they have that option, too.

    Again, I admire your desire for your kids to experience these wonderful things, but it's not practical and it doesn't really do them as much good as saving for their future. A parent's responsibility is to provide his/her children with what they need, and these days, a college education is considered necessary. It's honestly the best thing you could ever give to/do for your kids. Good luck!
  • kikokateyy
    kikokateyy Posts: 136 Member
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    Travel with them. They will learn lots and it will give them a different perspective on things. My parents never paid for college. Instead they paid for 'experiences'. My sister and I were both in marching bands. They paid for us to travel to Japan, Malaysia, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Holland, Belgium, France, the UK, Turkey and all over Canada and the States. I am so thankful my parents did that for us. We were able to experience different cultures which helped us in knowing what we wanted to do.


    Have these experiences with your kids. They will remember, they will be thankful later on. The memories will last.
  • kikokateyy
    kikokateyy Posts: 136 Member
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    3. Don't sacrifice the education your kids need for one that does them no good. I admire your desire for your kids to have these wonderful and irreplaceable experiences, but a high school diploma just doesn't cut it anymore.

    I dont think they are sacraficing their kids education at all. They are giving them more knowledge by traveling and sending them away then a book could ever teach them. Just because they are choosing to have different experiences than paying for college doesnt mean their sacraficing their education....
  • hookilau
    hookilau Posts: 3,134 Member
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    PS...

    I have 2 other siblings that my parents paid for BOTH of their college educations. (my education came via the school of hard knocks, middle kid syndrome...whatever)

    Both never used their degrees to earn a living. One graduated from Syracuse with a degree in accounting (about 20 yrs ago) after graduating from Hillcrest H.S. with college classes to be on the fast track to become a nurse, the other from St. John's University for some kind of IT related thing (about 10 yrs ago, that was impressive).

    BOTH are dependant upon my parents for support. One with a family, the other, at 34, still living at home with no plans to leave or get more than a part time job. He likes working as an unpaid intern :huh: It's gratifying. :ohwell:

    I didn't go to college, I had things to do :laugh:

    My point is, my parents are now regretting their decision to 'over-parent' my siblings by insisting that they remain at home and not get jobs while at school because their job WAS school....in other words, don't worry about working or how to pay for school, I'll pay for it as long as you get good grades and end up with a degree.

    It turned out to be an epic fail for both of them as they never learned how to manage, juggle and sacrifice. Unbelievably, my parents paid (and in one case is STILL paying) for college loans.

    It's a balance you have to strike. Be partners with your young adult children and guide them, but be careful not to pull rank :blushing:
  • BigDaddyRonnie
    BigDaddyRonnie Posts: 506 Member
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    why is there no option for "hookers and blow"?

    I see a couple of them chimed in!
  • AliciaStinger
    AliciaStinger Posts: 402 Member
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    Amanda,

    I just read your post responding to others. In my opinion, if you think swimming, music, and language lessons are "basics", then your priorities are a little out of whack. My dad took me to the public pool and taught me how to swim. Music is a wonderful thing - I'm a musician - but doesn't your kids' school offer music classes? Language lessons...again, most public schools offer these. If not, your kids could just as easily benefit from a one-time payment for Rosetta Stone software or some language videotapes at your library.

    My mom graduated from a great school, and then completed graduate school. Same with my dad. You know where life put us? My dad was laid off from his job with a defense contractor for reporting safety violations, and lost the job he loved best - air traffic controller - in the air traffic controller strike in the 80's. Even if he wanted to get his job back, he can't because he's narcoleptic. You know what he is now? A bus driver.

    My mom worked in a biotech lab in the 80's, opened two successful businesses with my dad in the late 80's (sold eyeglasses, and did political t-shirts and novelty items), and closed those businesses in the mid-2000's to work at Northwestern University and then for the American Society of Anesthesiologists. She has been unemployed for two years and 10 months. My brother is working 60 hours a week. My dad's working close to 50 hours a week and going to school to be a paramedic. My dad works a little over 40 hours a week. I'm averaging 47 hours a week, and at $24,000/year (which is only 17,500 after taxes), I'm the "breadwinner". At 22 years old, I'm supporting my family because, guess what, *kitten* happens.

    You should enjoy your life in whatever way you see fit, but if you need to ask a bunch of strangers whether you should save for the future or blow it all on what you call "enrichment activities" - wow, really? You're living in the kind of life that millions of Americans can't even afford to dream about at night, but you never know what's going to happen. I'm changing my advice to you. Blow that money now and make your kids pay for college themselves; maybe they'll be more financially responsible for their kids and understand what "basics" really are.
  • ldrosophila
    ldrosophila Posts: 7,512 Member
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    I'm mixed on this on one hand yes save for college, but on the other hand what if college isnt in your child's future? Is it more important to make memories or save?

    I dont know if you can have your cake and eat it too...

    I was lucky I had scholarships, loans, and I was able to live with my Grandma who put me through school.
  • AliciaStinger
    AliciaStinger Posts: 402 Member
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    3. Don't sacrifice the education your kids need for one that does them no good. I admire your desire for your kids to have these wonderful and irreplaceable experiences, but a high school diploma just doesn't cut it anymore.

    I dont think they are sacraficing their kids education at all. They are giving them more knowledge by traveling and sending them away then a book could ever teach them. Just because they are choosing to have different experiences than paying for college doesnt mean their sacraficing their education....

    She flat out asked if she should save money for her kids' education or spend it on camp and vacations. I skipped first grade and was home schooled until high school. I know about "different experiences". Her kids are too young to fully appreciate or remember what they're learning. These vacations are most likely not providing her kids with anything of real or lasting value (besides pictures), especially when compared to a college education.
  • running_shoe
    running_shoe Posts: 180 Member
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    Definitely save for school. As someone who has just sent her only child off the university, let me just say what a colossal relief it is that it does not effect my current account. The trips are nice, but a luxury they will have to afford for themselves.