"Metabolic Damage"
Replies
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This is great stuff. So what are your thoughts on someone recovering from a VLCD? Do you suppose they'd have more success taking a full diet break and eating at maintenance (or even above), for a set period, or should they continue to plug along with the 'diet', but at a far more reasonable deficit than before?People just need to take the decision and process of fat loss more seriously. There are many monumental decisions that we make in life - such as marriage, children and buying a home - which ought require extensive consideration. I believe fat loss to be up there with those. Unfortunately, this is a goal that most take too casually and end up making things far more difficult than need be with some rather undesirable consequences.
Within 24 hours, leptin serum concentration levels decrease upon restricting calories. This is how quickly and attune the body is at monitoring and responding to changes in energy balance. The longer one restricts, the more alterations occur and the further from baseline the values become. Of course, maintaining a severe deficit during this restrictive state will accelerate this decline at a faster rate.
When people reference a slowing down of the metabolism, a more accurate description is the body is becoming less proficient at using energy for the sake of conservation. In other words, your adjusted TDEE lessens to save energy as a result of chronic restriction. Thus, for example, your RMR demands less energy and you burn less calories from exercise. Your body doesn't consider what you're doing as a diet - it views it as the beginning of a famine and will try to protect itself. It will do so by two principle methods: reducing energy expenditure and returning to a certain 'set weight" during refeeds following rapid weight loss.
If one researches scholarly studies on VLCD that assessed changes in RMR/TDEE, LBM, as well as metabolic hormones such as leptin and ghrelin (and they're respective receptors), you'll notice significant alterations from baseline. These adaptations are not only responsible for obesity relapse in previously obese persons and recovering anorexics, but also why future fat loss interventions become more difficult and unsuccessful. Although there are few long-term studies on the subject, the lingering effects of these adaptations can persist for years.0 -
This is great stuff. So what are your thoughts on someone recovering from a VLCD? Do you suppose they'd have more success taking a full diet break and eating at maintenance (or even above), for a set period, or should they continue to plug along with the 'diet', but at a far more reasonable deficit than before?People just need to take the decision and process of fat loss more seriously. There are many monumental decisions that we make in life - such as marriage, children and buying a home - which ought require extensive consideration. I believe fat loss to be up there with those. Unfortunately, this is a goal that most take too casually and end up making things far more difficult than need be with some rather undesirable consequences.
Within 24 hours, leptin serum concentration levels decrease upon restricting calories. This is how quickly and attune the body is at monitoring and responding to changes in energy balance. The longer one restricts, the more alterations occur and the further from baseline the values become. Of course, maintaining a severe deficit during this restrictive state will accelerate this decline at a faster rate.
When people reference a slowing down of the metabolism, a more accurate description is the body is becoming less proficient at using energy for the sake of conservation. In other words, your adjusted TDEE lessens to save energy as a result of chronic restriction. Thus, for example, your RMR demands less energy and you burn less calories from exercise. Your body doesn't consider what you're doing as a diet - it views it as the beginning of a famine and will try to protect itself. It will do so by two principle methods: reducing energy expenditure and returning to a certain 'set weight" during refeeds following rapid weight loss.
If one researches scholarly studies on VLCD that assessed changes in RMR/TDEE, LBM, as well as metabolic hormones such as leptin and ghrelin (and they're respective receptors), you'll notice significant alterations from baseline. These adaptations are not only responsible for obesity relapse in previously obese persons and recovering anorexics, but also why future fat loss interventions become more difficult and unsuccessful. Although there are few long-term studies on the subject, the lingering effects of these adaptations can persist for years.
what r u considering a vlcd?0 -
No, a few posts earlier, I explained I have a friend who has lost and then regained about 100lbs after using HCG. Her doctor won't advise her, and she has asked me what I think she should do. She is currently eating on a small deficit, exercising regularly and seeing no results for months now. I am just wondering if she shouldn't take a break entirely and go back to dieting later. Frankly, I do not want to give her any advice at ALL, it is too big of an issue for my knowledge, but she isn't getting any help from anyone and I fear that she will eventually give up and go for another round of HCG.
This is great stuff. So what are your thoughts on someone recovering from a VLCD? Do you suppose they'd have more success taking a full diet break and eating at maintenance (or even above), for a set period, or should they continue to plug along with the 'diet', but at a far more reasonable deficit than before?People just need to take the decision and process of fat loss more seriously. There are many monumental decisions that we make in life - such as marriage, children and buying a home - which ought require extensive consideration. I believe fat loss to be up there with those. Unfortunately, this is a goal that most take too casually and end up making things far more difficult than need be with some rather undesirable consequences.
Within 24 hours, leptin serum concentration levels decrease upon restricting calories. This is how quickly and attune the body is at monitoring and responding to changes in energy balance. The longer one restricts, the more alterations occur and the further from baseline the values become. Of course, maintaining a severe deficit during this restrictive state will accelerate this decline at a faster rate.
When people reference a slowing down of the metabolism, a more accurate description is the body is becoming less proficient at using energy for the sake of conservation. In other words, your adjusted TDEE lessens to save energy as a result of chronic restriction. Thus, for example, your RMR demands less energy and you burn less calories from exercise. Your body doesn't consider what you're doing as a diet - it views it as the beginning of a famine and will try to protect itself. It will do so by two principle methods: reducing energy expenditure and returning to a certain 'set weight" during refeeds following rapid weight loss.
If one researches scholarly studies on VLCD that assessed changes in RMR/TDEE, LBM, as well as metabolic hormones such as leptin and ghrelin (and they're respective receptors), you'll notice significant alterations from baseline. These adaptations are not only responsible for obesity relapse in previously obese persons and recovering anorexics, but also why future fat loss interventions become more difficult and unsuccessful. Although there are few long-term studies on the subject, the lingering effects of these adaptations can persist for years.
what r u considering a vlcd?0 -
So much bad information in this thread.
Here is a peer reviewed, researched thread with 13 pages of intelligent discussion. Look through it for facts, not internet hype:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1077746-starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss0 -
Hi Katie,
I also did the HCG diet a couple of years ago and I did indeed lose about 50 pounds and struggled for 2 years to keep it off. I was able to keep 25 pounds off but it was very hard. I have to basically do a very low carb diet. Then around July of this year I decided to trash the low carb and started eating more normal diet that included counting calories instead of carbs. I am much happier now eating fruits, grains and vegetables. I also bought turbo fire and I have become addicted to exercise. I am slowing correnting my metabolism. I have not lost much weight since, but the important this is I am not gaining anymore. I started HCG weighing 200 pounds in 2010 I went down to 150 and kept it off for a year and slowly gained up to 186. I count calories now and exercise every day for 30 min to 1 hour doing different exercise, such as zumba, turbo fire and just this week I bought T25. I am down to 171.8 and feel great. My goal is to get down to 160 and then will see where I go. I am taking it slow and steady. I try to follow a 1200 calorie diet but do occassionally go up to 1500 and still am not gaining the weight back. I love my life now. I have also changed my eating and don't get as hugry as I used to when strict dieting.
thanks for this post. I reminded me of my messed up metabolism.
virgithegr80 -
Exactly a year ago I went on a crash diet for a month. I went from 195lbs to 167lbs . After, I kept losing by doing low cardio (1 hour at 3mph) but on February it stopped at 152lbs. Every since then, I haven't been able to lose any weight
I kept on doing the cardio until now and I haven't lost any weight. I've tried eating 1300, 1400, 1500, 1600 calories but no matter how low I go I don't lose weight.... I think I ****ed up my metabolism ...
I joined a gym though so I'm trying to lift weights... Idk what to do though.... Should I do the reverse diet while doing no exercise or should I keep on lifting ?
And what are some good workouts I could do to burn fat and gain muscle?0 -
Personally, I prefer people to engage in fat loss when everything is operating as optimal as possible. If she recently finished her VLCD diet, I'd suggest she weighs all her food and eats the maximum amount of calories until she reaches relative weight homeostasis.
This is great stuff. So what are your thoughts on someone recovering from a VLCD? Do you suppose they'd have more success taking a full diet break and eating at maintenance (or even above), for a set period, or should they continue to plug along with the 'diet', but at a far more reasonable deficit than before?People just need to take the decision and process of fat loss more seriously. There are many monumental decisions that we make in life - such as marriage, children and buying a home - which ought require extensive consideration. I believe fat loss to be up there with those. Unfortunately, this is a goal that most take too casually and end up making things far more difficult than need be with some rather undesirable consequences.
Within 24 hours, leptin serum concentration levels decrease upon restricting calories. This is how quickly and attune the body is at monitoring and responding to changes in energy balance. The longer one restricts, the more alterations occur and the further from baseline the values become. Of course, maintaining a severe deficit during this restrictive state will accelerate this decline at a faster rate.
When people reference a slowing down of the metabolism, a more accurate description is the body is becoming less proficient at using energy for the sake of conservation. In other words, your adjusted TDEE lessens to save energy as a result of chronic restriction. Thus, for example, your RMR demands less energy and you burn less calories from exercise. Your body doesn't consider what you're doing as a diet - it views it as the beginning of a famine and will try to protect itself. It will do so by two principle methods: reducing energy expenditure and returning to a certain 'set weight" during refeeds following rapid weight loss.
If one researches scholarly studies on VLCD that assessed changes in RMR/TDEE, LBM, as well as metabolic hormones such as leptin and ghrelin (and they're respective receptors), you'll notice significant alterations from baseline. These adaptations are not only responsible for obesity relapse in previously obese persons and recovering anorexics, but also why future fat loss interventions become more difficult and unsuccessful. Although there are few long-term studies on the subject, the lingering effects of these adaptations can persist for years.
This is another option, but she could visit an endocrinologist and test her metabolic hormones/RMR. After eating at maintenance for a few months, redo the tests again to see if the levels are improving. If they are, then she can continue to eat at maintenance until the doctors feel her hormones and ability to burn the most calories (higher TDEE) has recovered enough. Upon which, she can then go pursue fat loss again. I'm just not big on restricting for fat loss when a person's metabolic state isn't at its best.0 -
Thank you, that's the thought I had too and she has mentioned it herself. In her case, she is stalled anyway, and tired of dieting, so she is receptive to eating as much as possible at maintenance,( but not to the point of gaining) and then restarting a diet with a 'reasonable' deficit later when she feels that everything has evened out again. As for the endocrinologist, probably not happening... we're kind of the boondocks up here when it comes to doctors. :ohwell:
Personally, I prefer people to engage in fat loss when everything is operating as optimal as possible. If she recently finished her VLCD diet, I'd suggest she weighs all her food and eats the maximum amount of calories until she reaches relative weight homeostasis.
This is great stuff. So what are your thoughts on someone recovering from a VLCD? Do you suppose they'd have more success taking a full diet break and eating at maintenance (or even above), for a set period, or should they continue to plug along with the 'diet', but at a far more reasonable deficit than before?People just need to take the decision and process of fat loss more seriously. There are many monumental decisions that we make in life - such as marriage, children and buying a home - which ought require extensive consideration. I believe fat loss to be up there with those. Unfortunately, this is a goal that most take too casually and end up making things far more difficult than need be with some rather undesirable consequences.
Within 24 hours, leptin serum concentration levels decrease upon restricting calories. This is how quickly and attune the body is at monitoring and responding to changes in energy balance. The longer one restricts, the more alterations occur and the further from baseline the values become. Of course, maintaining a severe deficit during this restrictive state will accelerate this decline at a faster rate.
When people reference a slowing down of the metabolism, a more accurate description is the body is becoming less proficient at using energy for the sake of conservation. In other words, your adjusted TDEE lessens to save energy as a result of chronic restriction. Thus, for example, your RMR demands less energy and you burn less calories from exercise. Your body doesn't consider what you're doing as a diet - it views it as the beginning of a famine and will try to protect itself. It will do so by two principle methods: reducing energy expenditure and returning to a certain 'set weight" during refeeds following rapid weight loss.
If one researches scholarly studies on VLCD that assessed changes in RMR/TDEE, LBM, as well as metabolic hormones such as leptin and ghrelin (and they're respective receptors), you'll notice significant alterations from baseline. These adaptations are not only responsible for obesity relapse in previously obese persons and recovering anorexics, but also why future fat loss interventions become more difficult and unsuccessful. Although there are few long-term studies on the subject, the lingering effects of these adaptations can persist for years.
This is another option, but she could visit an endocrinologist and test her metabolic hormones/RMR. After eating at maintenance for a few months, redo the tests again to see if the levels are improving. If they are, then she can continue to eat at maintenance until the doctors feel her hormones and ability to burn the most calories (higher TDEE) has recovered enough. Upon which, she can then go pursue fat loss again. I'm just not big on restricting for fat loss when a person's metabolic state isn't at its best.0 -
I have a massive health-crush on Dr. Layne Norton.
I find him to be an absolute retard
My opinion0 -
Ok, so what is an HCG diet?
Regarding "Metabolic Damage"....
Great term, but don't think it means anything.
The human body is a pretty remarkable thing, and its primary goal above all else, is about self preservation.
All it takes is a person setting a goal, and then doing the proper research on how to obtain that goal....and getting info from different sources is also good. But it has to come from that person, those things cannot come from someone else.
But once you get your numbers right, the body (if it is a healthy person) can pretty much turn on a dime.....look at all those time scenarios when a person quits smoking.....the body begins to re-adjust pretty fast.0 -
I don't know about every country, but here in Canada, and I believe the US and UK, actual HCG cannot be prescribed for weight loss, so these 'clinics' prescribe placebos instead. We just got a 'clinic' here about 18 months ago and about half a dozen of these ladies who work in an office near my workplace all started the diet. At the time, I was about 300lbs and just starting out myself and a few of them explained about the diet and I did a little research... And I learned enough to know that I wanted no part of it. If they explained it right, it is very low calorie, 500-800 a day, high protein, no exercise. So, classic turtle and hare story here: they all lost quite a bit of weight very quickly. Some were only 20lbs overweight, and one was almost as big as me and kept after me to try it, as she was so thrilled with her results. Very nice lady, but I wasn't going there. I like food too much. Fast forward 18 months. I've been on MFP for a year, slowly getting to goal and ALL of them have gained all of the weight back, plus some. The one who was almost as big as me is now twice as big as me. She has gone for at least three rounds of HCG but gains everything back as soon as she goes into whatever their maintenance program is. So she dropped the whole diet about 3 months ago and is doing it the sensible way, exercising and eating at a reasonable deficit, but is not seeing any results and she believes she has "wrecked her metabolism". Now I know that isn't actually what happened, but clearly her body adapted somewhat to the VLCD and now she's having trouble doing it the right way. I have talked to her about weighing food and not overestimating workout calories, but those things could still be tripping her up for all I know. She has commented that she is going to take a diet break and just eat as much as she can to still msintain and the more I read on it, the more sensible that idea seems. Bottom line, HCG is a horrible idea.Ok, so what is an HCG diet?
Regarding "Metabolic Damage"....
Great term, but don't think it means anything.
The human body is a pretty remarkable thing, and its primary goal above all else, is about self preservation.
All it takes is a person setting a goal, and then doing the proper research on how to obtain that goal....and getting info from different sources is also good. But it has to come from that person, those things cannot come from someone else.
But once you get your numbers right, the body (if it is a healthy person) can pretty much turn on a dime.....look at all those time scenarios when a person quits smoking.....the body begins to re-adjust pretty fast.0 -
Ok,
The problem I see with that then is people rapidly increasing their caloric intake, without moderately increasing it.....
So going from one extreme (very low calorie) to the other (very High calorie).....Yeah I can see a train-wreck happening there....
But I dont' see it as a "wrecked metabolism".....it is just not allowing your metabolism to step itself up gradually......
And by the time the person realizes what is happening, well it is too late....
They have overshot their mark.0 -
I read through this thread here a while back. It's a common enough problem. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1006178-life-after-hcg-weight-loss-disaster-help?hl=Hcg+disaster0
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An acquaintance of mine used the HCG diet to lose about 100lbs, but she rapidly gained it all back, plus some. She has quit the program but now she has found she can no longer lose weight normally; despite exercising and eating at a moderate deficit, she says the scale just won't move. Her doctor has pretty much written her off, as "you made your bed, now lay in," and hasn't given her any advice.She knows I lost weight the 'old fashioned way' and has asked for my input. This issue is far beyond my current knowledge, but it is good to read of someone who is coming back from it successfully. It makes me think she should just keep plodding away and doing it the way she is now and that she will eventually see success again. EIther that or take a full diet break for a while and give her body a rest?
Any doctor who "pretty much writes you off" should not be a doctor. She needs to find one who treats her with respect.
That said, were I in her position, I would calculate my BMR and TDEE, and eat my TDEE (plus eat back exercise calories) for a few weeks. Any gains or losses will allow her to tweak these numbers. Then I'd eat at a sensible deficit to lose the weight I wanted to lose.
Agreed. I did the same for YEARS - undereating and overexercising. I have been trying to fix my metabolism for the last year or so. I'm currently pregnant so I'm not monitoring caloric intake however, I think if your friend eats at maintenance for a while she should be able to turn things around. It may take months though so she should be prepared.0 -
If you are willing to put in the time and effort in the gym, you can virtually eat any type of food you want as long as your caloric intake is in a deficit and you will lose weight. I am living proof of that (yes that is anecdotal but it is still working. I bust my butt in the gym and eat whatever I like) Every week I go to the "fat doctor" weigh in and get my bodyfat done and every week I am down fat, up muscle, and bodyfat started 7 weeks ago at 28% and this week I am at 19.2%. I was stuck in neutral running their diet. Eating meat only with a few veg/fruit sprinkled in and ultra low calorie. 1200kcal or less a day, my body said NOPE we will not be losing weight like this. (I was working out too hard and so my metabolism went to survival mode. aka metabolic damage) As soon as I upped my calories, spread out my macros and added in the foods I like but with control, I began to see gains like I could never have hoped for otherwise.
^^^^This... I did the same thing for over a year. WAY too little calories, (over night, too. I went from eating an unknown amount of daily calories and eating whatever I wanted) to dieting "clean" at 1200 max calories a day, plus over an hour of cardio daily, and lifting 90+ minutes daily. My metabolism crashed. My digestive system stopped almost completely (still messed up and seeing a specialist to fix internal damage), my mood was bottomed out, my period stopped and has only just returned, I have short term memory problems, my blood pressure was too low to even donate blood (76/43 with a 47 bpm heart rate), and I even passed out on two different occassions. I was seeing visual results, so I kept going, thinking I just had to "tough" it out. Ridiculous.
I started reverse dieting a little over a year ago, and am now at 2300+ calories on average, with over 200 carbs. I lift four days a week and only do cardio (HIIT style) once a week or so, just for a mental release. If I mountain bike or hike, I will eat an extra 500-800 calories to make up for it. I have gained 20 pounds, but only one jean size. (I am close to moving into the next size, though because my quads and hams have grown so much) I can't express how thankful I am for learning about reverse dieting. It saved my life. :-)0 -
Never fear--I too started that horrible diet. NOTHING LOST FAST STAYS LOST!!!!! My Dr. took my off of it and I now have a trainer. And the best news she ever gave me is that NEVER DIET--PEOPLE FAIL AT DIETS. I am on a lifestyle change, because I will always watch what I eat and I will always exercise for the rest of my life. HENCE--lifestyle change. My Dr. assured me I was fine, my bloodwork is fine and my amount of exercise is fine. My trainer is very strict with us as well and we admire her for it. Think about what you want sugar---a quick fix that will bounce right back or a GREAT LIFE !!!0
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So much great information!0
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Metabolic damage is really a misnomer. Yes you do slow down your metabolism and make it do bad things but Layne has been proven wrong on many levels. He has used biased study methods, has had his studies get poor reviews in peer review process.
I am not saying that Layne is a bad person or anything like that, he has helped many but there are many many many more people out there to learn from than that guy.
Whenever you go into ultra low calorie intake and ultra high calorie burn, your metabolism will literally say F#&K you and stop burning fat and actually store every single calorie you put into it because your body is built to survive. If you stay on that ultra low calorie diet for a long time like years, yes you will get really skinny, i.e. anorexia style skinny but otherwise in the short term your body will win the battle and you will actually get bigger vs. smaller.
Bios3training is a place to learn from, Icecreamfittness is another very great resource. Marc Lobliner of Tigerfitness gives excellent advice. (YouTube fitness channels)
If you are willing to put in the time and effort in the gym, you can virtually eat any type of food you want as long as your caloric intake is in a deficit and you will lose weight. I am living proof of that (yes that is anecdotal but it is still working. I bust my butt in the gym and eat whatever I like) Every week I go to the "fat doctor" weigh in and get my bodyfat done and every week I am down fat, up muscle, and bodyfat started 7 weeks ago at 28% and this week I am at 19.2%. I was stuck in neutral running their diet. Eating meat only with a few veg/fruit sprinkled in and ultra low calorie. 1200kcal or less a day, my body said NOPE we will not be losing weight like this. (I was working out too hard and so my metabolism went to survival mode. aka metabolic damage) As soon as I upped my calories, spread out my macros and added in the foods I like but with control, I began to see gains like I could never have hoped for otherwise.
If you're going to make the assertion that Layne is wrong please do reference the specific claims that you disagree with and why. It's not useful to provide an empty critique.0 -
Ok, so what is an HCG diet?
Regarding "Metabolic Damage"....
Great term, but don't think it means anything.
The human body is a pretty remarkable thing, and its primary goal above all else, is about self preservation.
All it takes is a person setting a goal, and then doing the proper research on how to obtain that goal....and getting info from different sources is also good. But it has to come from that person, those things cannot come from someone else.
But once you get your numbers right, the body (if it is a healthy person) can pretty much turn on a dime.....look at all those time scenarios when a person quits smoking.....the body begins to re-adjust pretty fast.
IT doesn't mean anything? How about it's a descriptor of what occurs in the body when it determines that self-preservation is at risk.
If you haven't guessed, I wholly agree with Layne Norton and have experienced it myself. At 11-13% bodyfat I was running maybe 70miles a week and lifting, I looked great and I was a mess hormonally, physically, and emotionally. I was eating ~2000-2300 calories a day despite "burning" well over 3000 each day but I was simply maintaining. Any time I'd eat what one would estimate my TDEE at I would gain weight FAST. Real weight, not water weight or a temporary fluctuation. I decreased my workouts to what they should be--maybe an hour or so a day--and quickly gained ~20 pounds in 9 weeks. At the same time I was eating ~2000-2300 calories a day so MAYBE a surplus of 300 calories a day on average--certainly not 1000+ extra calories a day; however, my body simply FREAKED OUT! I have also gone through recovery from anorexia--at which time I gained from 68 pounds up to 95 pounds all by eating 1200-1700 calories a day (and doing some daily exercise). I've done enough research and lived at the extreme where self-preservation is a real risk. I can say without doubt that "metabolic damage" is real and I don't care what anyone chooses to call it. Semantics and technicalities are a way to avoid the underlying message which is quite real and true.0 -
People just need to take the decision and process of fat loss more seriously. There are many monumental decisions that we make in life - such as marriage, children and buying a home - which ought require extensive consideration. I believe fat loss to be up there with those. Unfortunately, this is a goal that most take too casually and end up making things far more difficult than need be with some rather undesirable consequences.
Within 24 hours, leptin serum concentration levels decrease upon restricting calories. This is how quickly and attune the body is at monitoring and responding to changes in energy balance. The longer one restricts, the more alterations occur and the further from baseline the values become. Of course, maintaining a severe deficit during this restrictive state will accelerate this decline at a faster rate.
When people reference a slowing down of the metabolism, a more accurate description is the body is becoming less proficient at using energy for the sake of conservation. In other words, your adjusted TDEE lessens to save energy as a result of chronic restriction. Thus, for example, your RMR demands less energy and you burn less calories from exercise. Your body doesn't consider what you're doing as a diet - it views it as the beginning of a famine and will try to protect itself. It will do so by two principle methods: reducing energy expenditure and returning to a certain 'set weight" during refeeds following rapid weight loss.
If one researches scholarly studies on VLCD that assessed changes in RMR/TDEE, LBM, as well as metabolic hormones such as leptin and ghrelin (and they're respective receptors), you'll notice significant alterations from baseline. These adaptations are not only responsible for obesity relapse in previously obese persons and recovering anorexics, but also why future fat loss interventions become more difficult and unsuccessful. Although there are few long-term studies on the subject, the lingering effects of these adaptations can persist for years.
QFT! Loved this!0 -
layne is supposed to be a scientist yet when he brought up metabolic damage he offered no scientific data. he offered broscience.Metabolic damage is really a misnomer. Yes you do slow down your metabolism and make it do bad things but Layne has been proven wrong on many levels. He has used biased study methods, has had his studies get poor reviews in peer review process.
I am not saying that Layne is a bad person or anything like that, he has helped many but there are many many many more people out there to learn from than that guy.
Whenever you go into ultra low calorie intake and ultra high calorie burn, your metabolism will literally say F#&K you and stop burning fat and actually store every single calorie you put into it because your body is built to survive. If you stay on that ultra low calorie diet for a long time like years, yes you will get really skinny, i.e. anorexia style skinny but otherwise in the short term your body will win the battle and you will actually get bigger vs. smaller.
Bios3training is a place to learn from, Icecreamfittness is another very great resource. Marc Lobliner of Tigerfitness gives excellent advice. (YouTube fitness channels)
If you are willing to put in the time and effort in the gym, you can virtually eat any type of food you want as long as your caloric intake is in a deficit and you will lose weight. I am living proof of that (yes that is anecdotal but it is still working. I bust my butt in the gym and eat whatever I like) Every week I go to the "fat doctor" weigh in and get my bodyfat done and every week I am down fat, up muscle, and bodyfat started 7 weeks ago at 28% and this week I am at 19.2%. I was stuck in neutral running their diet. Eating meat only with a few veg/fruit sprinkled in and ultra low calorie. 1200kcal or less a day, my body said NOPE we will not be losing weight like this. (I was working out too hard and so my metabolism went to survival mode. aka metabolic damage) As soon as I upped my calories, spread out my macros and added in the foods I like but with control, I began to see gains like I could never have hoped for otherwise.
If you're going to make the assertion that Layne is wrong please do reference the specific claims that you disagree with and why. It's not useful to provide an empty critique.0 -
layne is supposed to be a scientist yet when he brought up metabolic damage he offered no scientific data. he offered broscience.Metabolic damage is really a misnomer. Yes you do slow down your metabolism and make it do bad things but Layne has been proven wrong on many levels. He has used biased study methods, has had his studies get poor reviews in peer review process.
I am not saying that Layne is a bad person or anything like that, he has helped many but there are many many many more people out there to learn from than that guy.
Whenever you go into ultra low calorie intake and ultra high calorie burn, your metabolism will literally say F#&K you and stop burning fat and actually store every single calorie you put into it because your body is built to survive. If you stay on that ultra low calorie diet for a long time like years, yes you will get really skinny, i.e. anorexia style skinny but otherwise in the short term your body will win the battle and you will actually get bigger vs. smaller.
Bios3training is a place to learn from, Icecreamfittness is another very great resource. Marc Lobliner of Tigerfitness gives excellent advice. (YouTube fitness channels)
If you are willing to put in the time and effort in the gym, you can virtually eat any type of food you want as long as your caloric intake is in a deficit and you will lose weight. I am living proof of that (yes that is anecdotal but it is still working. I bust my butt in the gym and eat whatever I like) Every week I go to the "fat doctor" weigh in and get my bodyfat done and every week I am down fat, up muscle, and bodyfat started 7 weeks ago at 28% and this week I am at 19.2%. I was stuck in neutral running their diet. Eating meat only with a few veg/fruit sprinkled in and ultra low calorie. 1200kcal or less a day, my body said NOPE we will not be losing weight like this. (I was working out too hard and so my metabolism went to survival mode. aka metabolic damage) As soon as I upped my calories, spread out my macros and added in the foods I like but with control, I began to see gains like I could never have hoped for otherwise.
If you're going to make the assertion that Layne is wrong please do reference the specific claims that you disagree with and why. It's not useful to provide an empty critique.
Thank you for doing nothing to further the critique that he's wrong. With or without scientific data--the experiences of NUMEROUS people does not constitute broscience.0 -
Whenever you go into ultra low calorie intake and ultra high calorie burn, your metabolism will literally say F#&K you and stop burning fat and actually store every single calorie you put into it because your body is built to survive. If you stay on that ultra low calorie diet for a long time like years, yes you will get really skinny, i.e. anorexia style skinny but otherwise in the short term your body will win the battle and you will actually get bigger vs. smaller.
:noway:
so THAT explains all the fatties running around in 3rd world countries.0 -
I suggest the folks who claim to hold onto fat because they aren't eating enough read this article, it sums it up nicely
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/0 -
i had a pretty bad ED from ages 19 - 21. it took a good five years before i felt like my system was functioning normally.0
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bookmarking to read later as well....lots of interesting information! I often wonder if I have "damaged" my metabolism from diet pills and ultra low cal diets in the past... I gained a lot of weight once I stopped. The weight is coming off so much slower this time- hoping I might find some tips here to help. Thanks all!0
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Interesting topic, bump for later reading.0
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IT doesn't mean anything? How about it's a descriptor of what occurs in the body when it determines that self-preservation is at risk.
If you haven't guessed, I wholly agree with Layne Norton and have experienced it myself. At 11-13% bodyfat I was running maybe 70miles a week and lifting, I looked great and I was a mess hormonally, physically, and emotionally. I was eating ~2000-2300 calories a day despite "burning" well over 3000 each day but I was simply maintaining. Any time I'd eat what one would estimate my TDEE at I would gain weight FAST. Real weight, not water weight or a temporary fluctuation. I decreased my workouts to what they should be--maybe an hour or so a day--and quickly gained ~20 pounds in 9 weeks. At the same time I was eating ~2000-2300 calories a day so MAYBE a surplus of 300 calories a day on average--certainly not 1000+ extra calories a day; however, my body simply FREAKED OUT! I have also gone through recovery from anorexia--at which time I gained from 68 pounds up to 95 pounds all by eating 1200-1700 calories a day (and doing some daily exercise). I've done enough research and lived at the extreme where self-preservation is a real risk. I can say without doubt that "metabolic damage" is real and I don't care what anyone chooses to call it. Semantics and technicalities are a way to avoid the underlying message which is quite real and true.
I am not saying that Layne is right or wrong....I don't care.
My view on this is that the metabolism is not damaged...
If you are alive and breathing, then you are "metabloising" something...
When you are dead, you can say that the metabolism is damaged.
If you cut calories, then your body is going to react in a way that preserves itself....no different than a pregnant woman who cuts way back on her caloric intake in order to stay "skinny".....she can do that all she wants, but she will suffer while the body does things to protect the fetus.
Obviously this is a personal experience for you, so my intent is not to offend you.
But I don't think damage is the right word.....
Has the metabolism slowed down?? Yes, very much so.
Will it take time to get it going yes?? Yes. It will.
Will it get back to where it is working as desired?? Most likely yes.
Is that damage? To me no, it is working how it was intended to work. It works to preserve the life.
Your body has amazing coping mechanisms......so when you screw things up, it will take time to get it working right again.
But I don't see it as "damage", I see it as how God (or nature, your choice) intended.0 -
bump0
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IT doesn't mean anything? How about it's a descriptor of what occurs in the body when it determines that self-preservation is at risk.
If you haven't guessed, I wholly agree with Layne Norton and have experienced it myself. At 11-13% bodyfat I was running maybe 70miles a week and lifting, I looked great and I was a mess hormonally, physically, and emotionally. I was eating ~2000-2300 calories a day despite "burning" well over 3000 each day but I was simply maintaining. Any time I'd eat what one would estimate my TDEE at I would gain weight FAST. Real weight, not water weight or a temporary fluctuation. I decreased my workouts to what they should be--maybe an hour or so a day--and quickly gained ~20 pounds in 9 weeks. At the same time I was eating ~2000-2300 calories a day so MAYBE a surplus of 300 calories a day on average--certainly not 1000+ extra calories a day; however, my body simply FREAKED OUT! I have also gone through recovery from anorexia--at which time I gained from 68 pounds up to 95 pounds all by eating 1200-1700 calories a day (and doing some daily exercise). I've done enough research and lived at the extreme where self-preservation is a real risk. I can say without doubt that "metabolic damage" is real and I don't care what anyone chooses to call it. Semantics and technicalities are a way to avoid the underlying message which is quite real and true.
I am not saying that Layne is right or wrong....I don't care.
My view on this is that the metabolism is not damaged...
If you are alive and breathing, then you are "metabloising" something...
When you are dead, you can say that the metabolism is damaged.
If you cut calories, then your body is going to react in a way that preserves itself....no different than a pregnant woman who cuts way back on her caloric intake in order to stay "skinny".....she can do that all she wants, but she will suffer while the body does things to protect the fetus.
Obviously this is a personal experience for you, so my intent is not to offend you.
But I don't think damage is the right word.....
Has the metabolism slowed down?? Yes, very much so.
Will it take time to get it going yes?? Yes. It will.
Will it get back to where it is working as desired?? Most likely yes.
Is that damage? To me no, it is working how it was intended to work. It works to preserve the life.
Your body has amazing coping mechanisms......so when you screw things up, it will take time to get it working right again.
But I don't see it as "damage", I see it as how God (or nature, your choice) intended.
i understand what you're saying. but you're just arguing semantics. i'm pretty sure everything you just said is the same as what someone else would call "metabolic damage".0
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