Have people's concepts of normal become too fat?

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  • spookiefox
    spookiefox Posts: 215 Member
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    I rather suspect it's actually that our idea of 'ideal weight/body shape' has become too thin. The 'ideal' displayed by Hollywood, the music and print media industries is actually representative of an underweight or very-low-range 'normal' BMI*, in most cases (I'm speaking predominantly of females here), with a very low body fat percentage (unhealthily low for women of childbearing age in many cases) and reflects (again, in general) a physique that is only physically-achievable by less than 5% of the population.

    The 'ideal' figures of most of the last century were much, much closer to the 'average' female form, and were achievable or at least emulatable in a healthy way by more women, thus the contrast between 'ideal' and 'realistic' was much less startling. Compare celebrities of the past such as Ava Gardner, Sophia Loren, Jayne Russell, Doris Day or Marilyn Monroe to Reese Witherspoon, Kristen Stewart, Anne Hathaway et al, and this becomes evident very quickly. Even a young Meryl Streep or Diane Keaton was much closer to 'average' in size than the current crop of ultra-thin actresses.

    *Which is not a good measure of individual health, but this isn't the place to go into that!

    Exactly. ^

    Yup. And then it's ex post facto justified as a concern for health and/or the public cost of this supposed unhealth.
  • CollieFit
    CollieFit Posts: 1,683 Member
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    Ps your analogy with female cancers is rather rubbish as not procreating provides protection from certain cancers as well as increasing the risk of others...
  • spookiefox
    spookiefox Posts: 215 Member
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    in the uk even the "special k " advert girl is now fat and wearing a one piece !!!
    I would hardly say she was "fat" :noway:

    That women on the special k advert is not fat. And as for bashing plus size models....its not like they are fat.....they are just bigger than the usual models. I think they are sexy but everyone has their own opinions i guess :)

    Mmmmm... yeah! Most of the so-called plus-sized models are VERY sexy.
  • belgerian
    belgerian Posts: 1,059 Member
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    YES
  • spookiefox
    spookiefox Posts: 215 Member
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    Ps your analogy with female cancers is rather rubbish as not procreating provides protection from certain cancers as well as increasing the risk of others...

    Which cancer am I protected from because I have no had children?
  • ash8184
    ash8184 Posts: 701 Member
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    (In the US) I feel like we have gone from having normal body image (up to the 1960s) to too thin (70s, 80s, 90s) to celebrating being overweight (American TV shows "Mike & Molly" and the BBW movement). Ideally, we'd all be comfortable in our bodies AND at a healthy weight, not one or the other! Being obese is nothing to celebrate, as is an eating disorder or being too thin.

    IMHO, a lot of "too thin" or "too fat" is more complicated than a height and weight. It's how active you are, your frame, muscle mass, and how good you feel about yourself. But for sure, 5 or 10lbs on either side of an ideal weight isn't too big of a deal... it's when you get in to the 40, 50lbs either way that it becomes a problem!
  • jeffd247
    jeffd247 Posts: 319 Member
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    Ps your analogy with female cancers is rather rubbish as not procreating provides protection from certain cancers as well as increasing the risk of others...

    Which cancer am I protected from because I have no had children?

    It's called Chronic Bratatosis Disease. It's a cancer that attacks your brain due to a non-stop onslaught of nagging, whining and defiance. It's not fatal, it can't kill you but it can drive you crazy.
  • sabified
    sabified Posts: 1,051 Member
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    I certainly think so. I was out in the sun on Monday - a really lovely, warm day in my neck of the woods - and was quietly astounded at how many fat people they were. This comes from a former fatty. But I would say a good 80% of the people I saw were at the very least overweight, with some being so large they couldn't walk properly.

    I often get told not to lose more weight because I'll look "skinny", or "anorexic". I am actually borderline overweight, according to the BMI, and very far from skinny indeed.

    My friend has a six year old sister, and there's a worryingly high number of fat children in her class. When I was in school - which wasn't THAT long ago in the scheme of things - there was one token fat kid, and it was me. And, compared to some of the children I've seen, I wasn't anywhere near as big.

    I'm all for body confidence and acceptance of all shapes and sizes, but I sometimes think that things have swung too much the other way. Body shapes are being normalised, and that's not necessarily a good thing when it's impacting on people's health. Comfort zones are very, very dangerous.

    This exactly! I was the token fat kid as well... nowadays it seems like there's the token "skinny clique" (talking abt an older age group, not 6yr olds) and everyone else is chubby!
  • spookiefox
    spookiefox Posts: 215 Member
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    You misunderstood what I said. Someone's obesity may not be anyone's business but the SUBJECT of obesity is a public health crisis, it's a legitimate topic of debate in a country where healthcare is funded by the tax payer!

    It is NOT a "public health crisis." Remember back in the 1990s when they told us of the first generation of kids whose life expectancy was NOT longer than their parents? Supposedly because of obesity? Turns out they were wrong. That generation will live longer than their parents too. This is an imaginary "crisis" and unless you're also talking about people wearing sunscreen and riding motorcycles and scooters and every other thing associated with increased risk of illness and death, it's just fat shaming.
  • Knsclptr30
    Knsclptr30 Posts: 38
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    I disagree most plus size models do not have the curvy Brazilian type of feminine body with thick sculpted glute/hips and good waist to hip ratio.
  • spookiefox
    spookiefox Posts: 215 Member
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    Ps your analogy with female cancers is rather rubbish as not procreating provides protection from certain cancers as well as increasing the risk of others...

    Which cancer am I protected from because I have no had children?

    It's called Chronic Bratatosis Disease. It's a cancer that attacks your brain due to a non-stop onslaught of nagging, whining and defiance. It's not fatal, it can't kill you but it can drive you crazy.

    I have nieces and nephews, I'm familiar with Chronic Bratatosis Disease. You can get it even from stranger's kids at the grocery store. If anything, being childless lowers your immunity. LOL
  • FrauMama
    FrauMama Posts: 169 Member
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    Yes. Absolutely.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    The average dress size in the US a few years ago was 12. Now it's 14. Both are not small sizes (I think they translate to 14 and 16 UK, but I'm not sure). I was just this side of obese on the BMI scale when I wore a size 12. Even a tall woman in a size 14 is a pretty good sized woman.

    But yet I hear all the time how pop culture needs to start putting out larger "role models" because, after all, size 14 is average and therefore "normal."

    It's overweight. Just because the average is overweight doesn't make it a healthy weight or size. It just means more people are overweight. That isn't something to celebrate.

    So, yes to the thread title.
  • ctalimenti
    ctalimenti Posts: 865 Member
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    I think people's concepts of normal have indeed become "fatter." That's why there are so many people who are satisfied with being an overweight BMI and go on and on about how they will never be in the healthy range because they think that the healthy range is "sickly" or "anorexic" or whatever derogatory word they can come up with to justify being overweight.

    I see more skinny bashing than I do fat bashing online, especially on Facebook. I am so sick of that "real women have curves" bull**** going around. I'm more into a lean and athletic look for myself, but that doesn't make an overweight curvy woman a better or more real woman than I am.

    I am glad that people are starting to accept themselves more...that's awesome. Less of this self hate thing is great! But, it seems that with that has come more loathing for smaller/leaner people, and the fact that people consider overweight and chubby "normal."

    Agreed
  • ctalimenti
    ctalimenti Posts: 865 Member
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    The average dress size in the US a few years ago was 12. Now it's 14. Both are not small sizes (I think they translate to 14 and 16 UK, but I'm not sure). I was just this side of obese on the BMI scale when I wore a size 12. Even a tall woman in a size 14 is a pretty good sized woman.

    But yet I hear all the time how pop culture needs to start putting out larger "role models" because, after all, size 14 is average and therefore "normal."

    It's overweight. Just because the average is overweight doesn't make it a healthy weight or size. It just means more people are overweight. That isn't something to celebrate.

    So, yes to the thread title.

    Absolutely
  • spookiefox
    spookiefox Posts: 215 Member
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    The average dress size in the US a few years ago was 12. Now it's 14. Both are not small sizes (I think they translate to 14 and 16 UK, but I'm not sure). I was just this side of obese on the BMI scale when I wore a size 12. Even a tall woman in a size 14 is a pretty good sized woman.

    But yet I hear all the time how pop culture needs to start putting out larger "role models" because, after all, size 14 is average and therefore "normal."

    It's overweight. Just because the average is overweight doesn't make it a healthy weight or size. It just means more people are overweight. That isn't something to celebrate.

    So, yes to the thread title.

    "Overweight" is not a synonym for "unhealthy." In fact it's not a useful word at all. You cannot determine health or unhealth by looking.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    The average dress size in the US a few years ago was 12. Now it's 14. Both are not small sizes (I think they translate to 14 and 16 UK, but I'm not sure). I was just this side of obese on the BMI scale when I wore a size 12. Even a tall woman in a size 14 is a pretty good sized woman.

    But yet I hear all the time how pop culture needs to start putting out larger "role models" because, after all, size 14 is average and therefore "normal."

    It's overweight. Just because the average is overweight doesn't make it a healthy weight or size. It just means more people are overweight. That isn't something to celebrate.

    So, yes to the thread title.

    "Overweight" is not a synonym for "unhealthy." In fact it's not a useful word at all. You cannot determine health or unhealth by looking.
    No.

    But I can determine that if you remain overweight for long enough -- especially as overweight as people have become in general -- that even if you never develop heart disease or diabetes, your joints are going to give on you and you are going to have trouble even walking short distances. Your quality of life will be lower.
  • Mr_Bad_Example
    Mr_Bad_Example Posts: 2,403 Member
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    I don't know, but I hate when my concepts of normal start gaining weight and getting fat. It's so hard to burn those pesky ideological pounds.
  • Inshape13
    Inshape13 Posts: 680 Member
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    I never really thought about that because I get the "you're losing too much weight" frequently and it does come down to people's perception of what they think is a normal weight. I am right in the middle of the bmi for my weight/height so this has always irritated me. Thanks for the post.
  • spookiefox
    spookiefox Posts: 215 Member
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    The average dress size in the US a few years ago was 12. Now it's 14. Both are not small sizes (I think they translate to 14 and 16 UK, but I'm not sure). I was just this side of obese on the BMI scale when I wore a size 12. Even a tall woman in a size 14 is a pretty good sized woman.

    But yet I hear all the time how pop culture needs to start putting out larger "role models" because, after all, size 14 is average and therefore "normal."

    It's overweight. Just because the average is overweight doesn't make it a healthy weight or size. It just means more people are overweight. That isn't something to celebrate.

    So, yes to the thread title.

    "Overweight" is not a synonym for "unhealthy." In fact it's not a useful word at all. You cannot determine health or unhealth by looking.
    No.

    But I can determine that if you remain overweight for long enough -- especially as overweight as people have become in general -- that even if you never develop heart disease or diabetes, your joints are going to give on you and you are going to have trouble even walking short distances. Your quality of life will be lower.

    Maybe your quality of life will be lower. Maybe mine would. But "it ain't necessarily so." Quality of life is dependent on SO many things and is entirely, 100%, subjective. I had a friend in college with a poster that said "If you give up wine, women, and song you won''t live longer, but it'll sure SEEM longer." This is just another red herring to justify a bunch of concern over something that is each person's private business. You ALSO cannot determine my "quality of life" by looking.

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