Starting a KETO Diet next week! Need advice and support
Replies
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False. It's actually been proven through archaeology and anthropology that humans evolved eating over 50% carbs. Also, on a ketogenic diet, you burn through just as much muscle, if not more. Most peer reviewed studies I've read show much higher rates of LBM loss on ketogenic diets when protein and calories are held constant. Like SideSteel said, sufficent protein and calorie deficit is the key to fat loss, ketogenic is irrelevant.If you want to lose 10-15 lbs and 'tone up', you should eat at a small deficit and do strength training.
It sounds like what you actually want to do is body recomposition, which is a process that involves eating at maintenance and building muscle while slowly reducing fat.
It is beyond me why anyone would look at a diet designed as a treatment for epileptic children who are resistant to anti-seizure meds and say "YES! That's my ticket to weight loss!" But, shrug.
Another silly person who doesn't know what they are talking about.
Explain to me, please, how it is silly? Or did you just ignorantly bash the truth?
'Ignorantly bash the truth' .. this is unbelievably hypocritcal considering your comments that Keto is solely a diet for treating epilepsy?
Yes, this is incredibly silly. On a Ketogenic Diet, your body burns fat as energy first. On a standard Glycolyctic diet your body first burns carbs, then muscle, then finally fat. So yes, being in Ketosis, along with a calorie deficit is a ticket to weight loss. Ketosis is a primal state, what do you think Human's eat before agriculture (5000-6000 years ago) in the last millions of years of human evolution? Fat, Meat, Berries.
ROFL!
False.
Nice random completely ridiculous statement with no proof.
Human Evolution + Grain = http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/grains-and-human-evolution.html
Humans have existed hundreds of thousands of years. Agriculture has existing for roughly 10,000 years, 5000 for most of Europe/Americas.
'Just as much muscle, if not more?' that is absolutely nonsense. I have already outlined in my previous post how the body burns fat in Ketosis. On a normal diet, the body HAS to burn muscle to then burn fat. On a ketogenic diet, you can solely burn fat and lose fat, without touching muscle. The whole basis of a ketogenic diet is that it is hugely muscle sparing.
http://josepharcita.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/guide-to-ketosis.html0 -
What do you do on the KETO diet??
Suspend disbelief.0 -
What do you do on the KETO diet??
Suspend disbelief.
LOL0 -
'Just as much muscle, if not more?' that is absolutely nonsense. I have already outlined in my previous post how the body burns fat in Ketosis. On a normal diet, the body HAS to burn muscle to then burn fat. On a ketogenic diet, you can solely burn fat and lose fat, without touching muscle. The whole basis of a ketogenic diet is that it is hugely muscle sparing.
Protein sparing effects are due to protein intake, not ketosis.
If ketogenic diets guaranteed 100% retention of skeletal muscle then all bodybuilders would do them all the time.0 -
i did a keto diet for a year, lost 100 lbs. switched from keto to a well balanced diet with 40-50% carbs per day, and lost another 100 lbs. thus i don't really believe that coming of keto is some magical weight gainer, maybe just a little water weight at first that goes away in a week or so. Back on the topic of keto, the best thing i can say is to stay away from processed meats so you don't retain water from the ridiculous amount of sodium that they contain.
I did this with 25 and 50lbs. People blame carbs for their weight re-gain all the time, it's maddening. Stay in a deficit, keep losing weight. I don't get why this is so challenging. Probably because most people demonize carbs and sugar and when they inevitably cave they go hog wild and have all the "bad" foods they couldn't have before in gluttonous amounts. If you don't have a medical reason to avoid carbs, it doesn't make sense to torture yourself.0 -
False. It's actually been proven through archaeology and anthropology that humans evolved eating over 50% carbs. Also, on a ketogenic diet, you burn through just as much muscle, if not more. Most peer reviewed studies I've read show much higher rates of LBM loss on ketogenic diets when protein and calories are held constant. Like SideSteel said, sufficent protein and calorie deficit is the key to fat loss, ketogenic is irrelevant.If you want to lose 10-15 lbs and 'tone up', you should eat at a small deficit and do strength training.
It sounds like what you actually want to do is body recomposition, which is a process that involves eating at maintenance and building muscle while slowly reducing fat.
It is beyond me why anyone would look at a diet designed as a treatment for epileptic children who are resistant to anti-seizure meds and say "YES! That's my ticket to weight loss!" But, shrug.
Another silly person who doesn't know what they are talking about.
Explain to me, please, how it is silly? Or did you just ignorantly bash the truth?
'Ignorantly bash the truth' .. this is unbelievably hypocritcal considering your comments that Keto is solely a diet for treating epilepsy?
Yes, this is incredibly silly. On a Ketogenic Diet, your body burns fat as energy first. On a standard Glycolyctic diet your body first burns carbs, then muscle, then finally fat. So yes, being in Ketosis, along with a calorie deficit is a ticket to weight loss. Ketosis is a primal state, what do you think Human's eat before agriculture (5000-6000 years ago) in the last millions of years of human evolution? Fat, Meat, Berries.
ROFL!
False.
Nice random completely ridiculous statement with no proof.
Human Evolution + Grain = http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/grains-and-human-evolution.html
Humans have existed hundreds of thousands of years. Agriculture has existing for roughly 10,000 years, 5000 for most of Europe/Americas.
'Just as much muscle, if not more?' that is absolutely nonsense. I have already outlined in my previous post how the body burns fat in Ketosis. On a normal diet, the body HAS to burn muscle to then burn fat. On a ketogenic diet, you can solely burn fat and lose fat, without touching muscle. The whole basis of a ketogenic diet is that it is hugely muscle sparing.
http://josepharcita.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/guide-to-ketosis.html
It is odd then, that mult studies show inferior LBM retention on low carb/keto diets. As already mentioned increased fat oxidation is in response to increased dietary fat intake, not increased body fat oxidation
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/24/3/290.full.pdf
"However, similar to body weight, fat mass and lean body mass decreased significantly more in the very low carbohydrate group[b/] compared with the low fat group at both 3 and 6 months"
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/88/4/1617.long
Comparison of energy-restricted very low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets on weight loss and body composition in overweight men and women
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC538279/figure/F1/
Which diet looks better for lbm retention?0 -
You will lose muscle as well as fat. The only way to tone up (as you call it) is to lift heavy weights. And you will not have any energy to do that.
Nonsense. You can't do much volume, but you don't need volume to PRESERVE muscle. You need intensity. Greg Nuckols (holds world record squat and combined 3 lift totals in his drug tested weight class) uses a ketogenic diet to cut weight for competition, and he's not going into catabolism. You just have to understand what is going on.
To OP: cut out cardio while you're doing Keto, and do small amounts of heavy lifting. Personally, I recommend a Reverse Pyramid Training (RPT) regimen, 3 days per week, based around Squats, either Overhead Press or Bench Press, and Deadlifts. Shoot for maybe 3-4 reps on your first set, then drop 10% and go for one more than the first, drop the same amount for a third set and try to get one more rep than the second set. Maybe walk a bit when you're done, then call it done.0 -
What do you do on the KETO diet??
Suspend disbelief.
LOL
Nice to hear we are still on talking terms despite my well documented dalliances and sometime obsession with the low carb world.
Look all, take it from someone who has been down the keto path, there is no point to the average schmo cutting back on the carbs for fat loss. Really, there isn't. No fracking insulin storage this or fat burning beast that.
I don't post this to be contrary, just to flag the fact there is no need to deprive anyone of anything, generally.
Have bread, pasta, ice cream ... Enjoy.
Eat what you like in moderation, no magic bullets out there just burn more than you consume and you'll be fine.0 -
no magic bullets out there just burn more than you consume and you'll be fine.
This. That won't stop people from looking or claiming though lol0 -
If you want to lose 10-15 lbs and 'tone up', you should eat at a small deficit and do strength training.
It sounds like what you actually want to do is body recomposition, which is a process that involves eating at maintenance and building muscle while slowly reducing fat.
It is beyond me why anyone would look at a diet designed as a treatment for epileptic children who are resistant to anti-seizure meds and say "YES! That's my ticket to weight loss!" But, shrug.
Another silly person who doesn't know what they are talking about.
Explain to me, please, how it is silly? Or did you just ignorantly bash the truth?
Truth-bashing is so popular on MFP that they may as well have a whole forum section dedicated to it. Call it the "Lies we tell to make people feel good" section.
What is "silly" is the idea that you can "tone up" by just labeling carbs are being "good" or "bad" then avoiding the alleged "bad ones."
When people say they want to "tone up," they usually mean eliminate body fat and have some sort of definition in their muscles. That can't be done without strength training. And the quickest way is heavy lifting.0 -
If you want to lose 10-15 lbs and 'tone up', you should eat at a small deficit and do strength training.
It sounds like what you actually want to do is body recomposition, which is a process that involves eating at maintenance and building muscle while slowly reducing fat.
It is beyond me why anyone would look at a diet designed as a treatment for epileptic children who are resistant to anti-seizure meds and say "YES! That's my ticket to weight loss!" But, shrug.
Another silly person who doesn't know what they are talking about.
Explain to me, please, how it is silly? Or did you just ignorantly bash the truth?
Truth-bashing is so popular on MFP that they may as well have a whole forum section dedicated to it. Call it the "Lies we tell to make people feel good" section.
What is "silly" is the idea that you can "tone up" by just labeling carbs are being "good" or "bad" then avoiding the alleged "bad ones."
When people say they want to "tone up," they usually mean eliminate body fat and have some sort of definition in their muscles. That can't be done without strength training. And the quickest way is heavy lifting.
That's true. However, if one cuts carbs and loses fat, then one can appear to be physically toned. The muscle is there, just under a layer of fat. Meh. Works well for some depending on how much mass they have.0 -
You are on the wrong site if you just want to lose 12-15 lbs. Enjoy your size.
Some on this site actually want to gain weight.
Shocking, I know, but it's a crazy world.0 -
carbs
that is all
eating high carb has helped me lose weight and tone up!0 -
What do you do on the KETO diet??
Suspend disbelief.
LOL
Nice to hear we are still on talking terms despite my well documented dalliances and sometime obsession with the low carb world.
Look all, take it from someone who has been down the keto path, there is no point to the average schmo cutting back on the carbs for fat loss. Really, there isn't. No fracking insulin storage this or fat burning beast that.
I don't post this to be contrary, just to flag the fact there is no need to deprive anyone of anything, generally.
Have bread, pasta, ice cream ... Enjoy.
Eat what you like in moderation, no magic bullets out there just burn more than you consume and you'll be fine.
I have to admit, seeing you go from a rather die-hard low carb enthusiast to a more moderate view, was both refreshing, and a "holy *kitten*!" moment.0 -
If you want to lose 10-15 lbs and 'tone up', you should eat at a small deficit and do strength training.
It sounds like what you actually want to do is body recomposition, which is a process that involves eating at maintenance and building muscle while slowly reducing fat.
It is beyond me why anyone would look at a diet designed as a treatment for epileptic children who are resistant to anti-seizure meds and say "YES! That's my ticket to weight loss!" But, shrug.
Another silly person who doesn't know what they are talking about.
Explain to me, please, how it is silly? Or did you just ignorantly bash the truth?
Truth-bashing is so popular on MFP that they may as well have a whole forum section dedicated to it. Call it the "Lies we tell to make people feel good" section.
What is "silly" is the idea that you can "tone up" by just labeling carbs are being "good" or "bad" then avoiding the alleged "bad ones."
When people say they want to "tone up," they usually mean eliminate body fat and have some sort of definition in their muscles. That can't be done without strength training. And the quickest way is heavy lifting.
That's true. However, if one cuts carbs and loses fat, then one can appear to be physically toned. The muscle is there, just under a layer of fat. Meh. Works well for some depending on how much mass they have.
Yes, for some it works. I know some people that have avoided so-called "bad carbs" for many years and remain happy with their diets. More often than not, it doesn't hold for the long-term. The ones that can hang with it are the exception, not the rule.
The problem is that someone like the OP can be at a healthy bodyweight but still be dissatisfied with "flab." Lots of people get down to their ideal weight, or what they thought was their ideal weight, and are still dissatisfied with their appearance because losing fat does not give them the change in body comp they they originally wanted. Too many people get focused on the scale and then they realize that magic number doesn't really improve their appearance, especially those like the OP. They believe that they need to lose weight, but actually the right lifting program and adequate protein would give the desired appearance, often without a change in the number on the scale at all.
The OP is a beautiful young lady who doesn't appear to need to lose an ounce. I stand by my comment that a lifting routine would make her happier in the long run than worrying about carbs.0 -
ROFL!
False.
Nice random completely ridiculous statement with no proof.
Human Evolution + Grain = http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/grains-and-human-evolution.html
Humans have existed hundreds of thousands of years. Agriculture has existing for roughly 10,000 years, 5000 for most of Europe/Americas.
'Just as much muscle, if not more?' that is absolutely nonsense. I have already outlined in my previous post how the body burns fat in Ketosis. On a normal diet, the body HAS to burn muscle to then burn fat. On a ketogenic diet, you can solely burn fat and lose fat, without touching muscle. The whole basis of a ketogenic diet is that it is hugely muscle sparing.
http://josepharcita.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/guide-to-ketosis.html
Just because humans didn't get the majority of their carbohydrates from grain until we started to cultivate them for that purpose (although we would have eaten wild grains before that - its probably why we wanted to cultivate them) - does not mean they did not eat a carb-rich diet, its just that modern humans have forgotten where to look for other sources of carbs.0 -
Yes, for some it works. I know some people that have avoided so-called "bad carbs" for many years and remain happy with their diets. More often than not, it doesn't hold for the long-term. The ones that can hang with it are the exception, not the rule.
The problem is that someone like the OP can be at a healthy bodyweight but still be dissatisfied with "flab." Lots of people get down to their ideal weight, or what they thought was their ideal weight, and are still dissatisfied with their appearance because losing fat does not give them the change in body comp they they originally wanted. Too many people get focused on the scale and then they realize that magic number doesn't really improve their appearance, especially those like the OP. They believe that they need to lose weight, but actually the right lifting program and adequate protein would give the desired appearance, often without a change in the number on the scale at all.
The OP is a beautiful young lady who doesn't appear to need to lose an ounce. I stand by my comment that a lifting routine would make her happier in the long run than worrying about carbs.
I get what you're saying.
Things can be so complicated, eh?0 -
I get what you're saying.
Things can be so complicated, eh?
Oh, yeah! My new mantra is "Eat the food; lift the weights." :bigsmile:0 -
1. Carbs are not the same thing as grains.
False. It's actually been proven through archaeology and anthropology that humans evolved eating over 50% carbs. Also, on a ketogenic diet, you burn through just as much muscle, if not more. Most peer reviewed studies I've read show much higher rates of LBM loss on ketogenic diets when protein and calories are held constant. Like SideSteel said, sufficent protein and calorie deficit is the key to fat loss, ketogenic is irrelevant.If you want to lose 10-15 lbs and 'tone up', you should eat at a small deficit and do strength training.
It sounds like what you actually want to do is body recomposition, which is a process that involves eating at maintenance and building muscle while slowly reducing fat.
It is beyond me why anyone would look at a diet designed as a treatment for epileptic children who are resistant to anti-seizure meds and say "YES! That's my ticket to weight loss!" But, shrug.
Another silly person who doesn't know what they are talking about.
Explain to me, please, how it is silly? Or did you just ignorantly bash the truth?
'Ignorantly bash the truth' .. this is unbelievably hypocritcal considering your comments that Keto is solely a diet for treating epilepsy?
Yes, this is incredibly silly. On a Ketogenic Diet, your body burns fat as energy first. On a standard Glycolyctic diet your body first burns carbs, then muscle, then finally fat. So yes, being in Ketosis, along with a calorie deficit is a ticket to weight loss. Ketosis is a primal state, what do you think Human's eat before agriculture (5000-6000 years ago) in the last millions of years of human evolution? Fat, Meat, Berries.
ROFL!
False.
Nice random completely ridiculous statement with no proof.
Human Evolution + Grain = http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/grains-and-human-evolution.html
Humans have existed hundreds of thousands of years. Agriculture has existing for roughly 10,000 years, 5000 for most of Europe/Americas.
'Just as much muscle, if not more?' that is absolutely nonsense. I have already outlined in my previous post how the body burns fat in Ketosis. On a normal diet, the body HAS to burn muscle to then burn fat. On a ketogenic diet, you can solely burn fat and lose fat, without touching muscle. The whole basis of a ketogenic diet is that it is hugely muscle sparing.
http://josepharcita.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/guide-to-ketosis.html
2. Care to explain exactly how and why the body MUST BURN MUSCLE before fat (which is completely false, the body is burning fat 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.)0 -
Bump for later :-)0
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Why, oh, why, oh, why did I ever tag this post?
It's never worth sifting through all the stupid arguments from all these idiots for the one or two sensible nuggets from people.
Mental note-- stay in your private group where you belong, Marla.
*bangs head on desk*0 -
bump0
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Why, oh, why, oh, why did I ever tag this post?
It's never worth sifting through all the stupid arguments from all these idiots for the one or two sensible nuggets from people.
Mental note-- stay in your private group where you belong, Marla.
*bangs head on desk*
I don't think it's fair to say they're idiots, they just mistakingly demonize sugar and I'm sure they'll figure it out for themselves in time. Most of these people are probably pretty intelligent but lack critical thinking skills.0 -
This turned into something I didnt want lol All I wanted was advice and support and some of you have really helped so thank you for that...0
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Don't listen to the nonsense. Check this page out http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com. It's a great place to start. I'm not a pro at the keto but I have had some success. Any question just ask.0
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Threads about anything that is not simply "eat less than you burn (preferably doughnuts and ice cream)" ALWAYS turn into ugliness here. It sucks. Made me leave this site once after a long time here, and will probably do the same again. It's unfortunate that blocking people who repeatedly make unhelpful, rude, and downright mean posts doesn't mean you don't SEE their replies. Because some people apparently thrive on attacking anyone who does anything different than them, or questions conventional "wisdom".
I am all for constructive criticism and presenting an opposing viewpoint with tact but, sadly, on MFP that rarely happens. It's extremely discouraging.0 -
Threads about anything that is not simply "eat less than you burn (preferably doughnuts and ice cream)" ALWAYS turn into ugliness here. It sucks. Made me leave this site once after a long time here, and will probably do the same again. It's unfortunate that blocking people who repeatedly make unhelpful, rude, and downright mean posts doesn't mean you don't SEE their replies. Because some people apparently thrive on attacking anyone who does anything different than them, or questions conventional "wisdom".
I am all for constructive criticism and presenting an opposing viewpoint with tact but, sadly, on MFP that rarely happens. It's extremely discouraging.
you're right...there are a couple of people who troll the boards (about 7 to be exact) with the purpose of entrapping newer users and pick apart every last detail of the sentences posted. It's because they have nothing better to do, have reached their goal & are behaving like the class clowns.
When they run into someone just as focused on the minutia that they use to pick apart other people, they handle them a little more gingerly and move on to less experienced people who are already vulnerable, attempting to work out their issues to lose weight.
Then there are the 'stockholm syndrome' types....they get so beaten down by the ferociousness of the argument that they concede and become one of the 'we're only telling you this for your own good, grow a thicker skin' crowd.
I use my ignore button with impunity. It actually amuses me when I run into threads where I can't follow the conversation because all the usual suspects have show up to show their butts to each other :laugh: :blushing: It's funny to see the person they start with not answer them and they continue on anyway, first trying to bait the person, then, just making rude comments to each other :huh: whatever. if you fall into the trap and respond, they actually report you:sick:
It's a reliable pattern. These people clearly don't have a great deal of face to face interaction with real people in real life.
I wouldn't sweat it. Good luck on your journeys friends....low carb, keto, Atkins etc. all seem to benefit everyone I know who have tried it, however, just as people who feel IIFYM don't care for my method, I don't care much for theirs either.
We agree that we disagree....and if they insist or repeatedly ask for studies and try to pull me in deeper with more things to pick apart, I click IGNORE.
PS: the answer to my above post is:
a. you're mad because you don't want to hear the truth
b. you're mad because I don't agree with you
c. mmmmmm....poptarts
d. oh noes another mean people thread
Meh :laugh:0 -
You are on the wrong site if you just want to lose 12-15 lbs. Enjoy your size.
Boy I must be totally off my rocker being here. I'm trying to gain. FML. Oh, wait, this is MyFITNESSPal, not MyOMFGHUGEFATPal0 -
This is totally cool--Don't listen to the nonsense. Check this page out http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com. It's a great place to start. I'm not a pro at the keto but I have had some success. Any question just ask.
Thank you.0 -
Instead of being a downer, I will answer your question. I wanted to loose only the 35 lbs I gained after quitting smoking. I suggest reading the New Atkins book for a more full understanding of Ketosis.
I eat a lot of veggies and proteins. Chicken, Pork, Fish, Beef. Breakfast is usually Bacon & Eggs, Steak and Broccoli, Ground Beef, Broccoli, with Cheddar Cheese. Salads for lunch. Lots of butter and oil. As many calories as I want to eat till I am full but no more than the number of carbs I am supposed to eat that week.
First 2 weeks is no more than 20 net carbs per day. Then you increase 5 carbs a week until you stop loosing weight. Maintenance stage is at that number so you don't loose or gain. The book explains it better.
I lost about a pound a day for the first two weeks. Exercise was 30-45 min walks every day and 35-45 minutes of UFC Trainer 4 times a week. Not much exercise is needed though.
Side effects, I was a bit light headed at times but it passed. I miss pizza, beer, and bread the most. But now that I am very close to my goal weight I enjoy cheat days a bit more often than I should but I am not gaining, just staying at the weight I am. I now drink Bacardi instead of beer.
Do not listen to the people who do not understand ketosis, they fear/bash what they do not understand. Change the fuel you eat and make your body go into fat burning mode instead of fat storing mode. When you eat less calories and less fat your body does what? STORES IT! Remove carbs and sugars from your diet and your body burns fat that it has stored.
My girlfriend and I are very happy with the "lifestyle" and the results. It's great to know I will never feel hungry because I can eat as many calories as I want. I eat between 1800 and 2400 a day and still loose consistently. As with any diet, you learn to eat healthy and modify the way you look at food and eat. It is for life not just a few weeks to shed some extra weight. But with the beauty of Ketosis is once you understand it, you can jump back into the various stages at any time to increase or decrease the level of weight loss.
Good luck and if you want to ask questions and receive responses from people who know what they are talking about head over to forums.atkins.com and see for yourself why so many people have had success with this diet/"lifestyle" since the 70's when it was introduced by a DOCTOR!
this!!!! ^^^^^
I did Atkins and loved it, I plan to go back on it again soon. The book is super helpful. <(^^)>0
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