Doctor Says Phentermine Long Term Not a Problem....Really?
Replies
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Well, wise, that is questionable! I just try not to judge others - I am not always successful there either. And my characterization of folks here on the thread was a bit tongue and cheek.
The thing about long term is, it is long term! It is kind of hard to know what your response will be until you get there. And how risky overall that is, to me, still remains somewhat unknown. Aside from serious health risks, it occurs to me that you will know if you tolerate it or not. As we all know long term commitments can be very short!
Regardless of what you decide, I wish you luck.0 -
Yes, I was told it was ok to take Phen for as long as I want. I now have a hole in my heart valve which I now need to take medication for the rest of my life.
Yes, go ahead and take it because your doctor said it was OK!!
THE END!!!!
Phentermine alone has never cause a hole in any valves. Only when it was combined with fenfluramine was it known to cause heart valve problems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phentermine
The current state of knowledge is actually that isolated cases of valvular reflux have been reported but not at a rate significant for concern. However, given that there are no studies on the long term use efficacy and safety of phen alone it is incorrect to assume that "it must be safe" - it is only approved for short term use - even the new combos which do not have a duration limiter at this point, specifically state cessation points if the patient does not reach x% decrease y% bodyweight in so many weeks.
Adverse reactions occur at a rate of about 5%. Which is not surprising - no effective treatment is without risk but these do not seem to be serious adverse effects.
In general these adverse reactions are low. However, consider that there are also increases risks of anxiety (see the study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3260065/)
Given the economic and historic associated health risk and the absence of long term data the reaction of people here is valid.
It is preferable to attempt a non-drug lifestyle solution first, failing that, these treatments do seem to be preferable versus surgical or "just staying fat" given their own cost and health related risk.
In the absence of long term data, there is a Korean post-market study that demonstrates a high level of adverse effects but not of a serious nature.
Now, the OP has clearly decided that this is her path so in reality I'm only posting this for those that are looking for information and might have a more open mindset.
Yes, there are adverse effects.
No long term studies give a good information of phen being a good treatment choice. Post-market studies do show significant adverse effects for a "less than mortal" nature.
It is a possible treatment path (obviously) but the preferable path should be lifestyle intervention first, when possible.
http://pdf.medrang.co.kr/Kafm/034/Jkafm034-05-02.pdf
Which is a long way of saying there has been no proof of holes in heart valves....like I said before.
BTW: Why did you pick a study done in South Korea?
Err, no there are cases of individual heart reflux damage (as state by the FDA and which would be in the adverse effects reporting network - which I am not allowed to copy here, had I looked them up). They are not statistically significant. There is a small difference between "no proof" and proof of uncertain value. (This might seem perhaps pedantic to you.) It is sufficient evidence to suggest further study.
The Korea study seems like an ok post market study, many others aren't published or available freely. It also has a large number of participants and a nice summary table of AEs. If you have a different source and prefer to post it, feel free, it's your thread.0 -
You're right, as is your doctor. It's safe. It's not a problem. You'll be fine.
There.0 -
Yes, I was told it was ok to take Phen for as long as I want. I now have a hole in my heart valve which I now need to take medication for the rest of my life.
Yes, go ahead and take it because your doctor said it was OK!!
THE END!!!!
Phentermine alone has never cause a hole in any valves. Only when it was combined with fenfluramine was it known to cause heart valve problems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phentermine
The current state of knowledge is actually that isolated cases of valvular reflux have been reported but not at a rate significant for concern. However, given that there are no studies on the long term use efficacy and safety of phen alone it is incorrect to assume that "it must be safe" - it is only approved for short term use - even the new combos which do not have a duration limiter at this point, specifically state cessation points if the patient does not reach x% decrease y% bodyweight in so many weeks.
Adverse reactions occur at a rate of about 5%. Which is not surprising - no effective treatment is without risk but these do not seem to be serious adverse effects.
In general these adverse reactions are low. However, consider that there are also increases risks of anxiety (see the study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3260065/)
Given the economic and historic associated health risk and the absence of long term data the reaction of people here is valid.
It is preferable to attempt a non-drug lifestyle solution first, failing that, these treatments do seem to be preferable versus surgical or "just staying fat" given their own cost and health related risk.
In the absence of long term data, there is a Korean post-market study that demonstrates a high level of adverse effects but not of a serious nature.
Now, the OP has clearly decided that this is her path so in reality I'm only posting this for those that are looking for information and might have a more open mindset.
Yes, there are adverse effects.
No long term studies give a good information of phen being a good treatment choice. Post-market studies do show significant adverse effects for a "less than mortal" nature.
It is a possible treatment path (obviously) but the preferable path should be lifestyle intervention first, when possible.
http://pdf.medrang.co.kr/Kafm/034/Jkafm034-05-02.pdf
Which is a long way of saying there has been no proof of holes in heart valves....like I said before.
BTW: Why did you pick a study done in South Korea?
Err, no there are cases of individual heart reflux damage (as state by the FDA and which would be in the adverse effects reporting network - which I am not allowed to copy here, had I looked them up). They are not statistically significant. There is a small difference between "no proof" and proof of uncertain value. (This might seem perhaps pedantic to you.) It is sufficient evidence to suggest further study.
The Korea study seems like an ok post market study, many others aren't published or available freely. It also has a large number of participants and a nice summary table of AEs. If you have a different source and prefer to post it, feel free, it's your thread.
Scroll up/back and read on another post on Phentermine and Fenfluramine and which chemicals they directly influence. There in lies your answer as to why there is NO PROOF of heart valve holes and it will clear up the confusion as to why there is "uncertain value" which does means it is correlative and is statistically insignificant. But I am guessing you already knew this anyway.0 -
You're right, as is your doctor. It's safe. It's not a problem. You'll be fine.
There.
Not asking if I was "right" or if it is safe or if I will be fine. Please read the OP if any confusion.0 -
bump0
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Actually Phen has been removed from the EU market because unlike your certainty, health care professional do have some doubts about efficacy/safety profile.Yes, I was told it was ok to take Phen for as long as I want. I now have a hole in my heart valve which I now need to take medication for the rest of my life.
Yes, go ahead and take it because your doctor said it was OK!!
THE END!!!!
Phentermine alone has never cause a hole in any valves. Only when it was combined with fenfluramine was it known to cause heart valve problems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phentermine
Wait, wait, wait... So no one's allowed to make sweeping statements regarding your health, but it's perfectly okay for you to tell this woman that the hole in her heart valve isn't real because Wikipedia says so?
To be honest, I've just sat here and read almost all of this thread, having PCOS myself and thinking I might be of some help, but you've been so incredibly rude to people who are only trying to help you, I'm only responding so I haven't completely wasted the last hour of my life. You asked if using Phentermine was something you should do long term, people answered with a loud and resounding no, and you thought the appropriate response was to dismiss them basically as nutjobs? Your question has been answered. Just because people don't use Wikipedia (of all things) to reinforce their opinions doesn't make them any less valid. If that's still not good enough for you, then take the second most common piece of advice this thread has offered you and seek an opinion from a different doctor.
People on this thread have provided alot of false information as well as their own hyperbole and opinions on Phentermine, much of which has not been based in facts. Also, as I stated before, I never asked for anyone's advice. The OP was an information mining expedition on those that knew of, have heard of or had personal experience long term on just phentermine. I think I have gotten less than a handful of people giving me actual medical journal links on the matter and no one that has reported being on phentermine for long term (i.e. 5, 10, 15 years)
So yes, I am calling BS on phentermine alone causing holes in valves. Here is why: Fenfluramine (the drug that was combined with Fen-Phen) causing valvular heart disease and pulmonary hypertension had already been correlated to have bad effects of systemic serotonin. It had already been known for decades that two of the major side-effects of the carcinoid syndrome (i.e. tumors or lesions) in which EXCESSIVE serotonin is produced endogenously resulting in valvular disease and pulmonary hypertension. Several studies were able to note a relationship to an excessive activation of the serotonin receptor, thus raising the potential for vale and pulmonary hypertension issues. Fenfluramine has been removed from the market, Phentermine has not.
Only approved by FDA for short term use. So an argument that it's ok for long term use is moot.Phentermine since its FDA approval in 1959 has never alone been linked to heart valve or pulmonary HTN problems. It was only until is combined use with Fenfluramine that it got any type of press to such. That is because phentermine works primarily on norepinephrine which has not been know to cause problems with valves or pulmonary HTN. Norepinephrine functions primarily to activate flight or fight and dosen't affect the smooth muscle tissue/cardiac muscles.
So sorry if you think that I and the science/facts are "rude", but there is just no way that phentermine causes holes in heart valves based on the chemical make up and how it affects the body. It is like saying aspirin gives people tumors...there is no scientific proof to claim such. Are there people that have taken aspirin that have gotten tumors?...probably. But the likelihood they got it from the aspirin it unlikely, just as holes in hearts from phentermine is just as unlikely.
I love aspirin examples. As to cancer and aspirin, it's funny you should raise the point, there is very strong evidence that aspirin reduces the risk of a few few types of cancer. However, it is also likely involved in pancreatic cancer. Furthermore, it might seem like a banal treatment but asprin and NSAIDs are directly responsible for 10 000+ deaths per year.
protective role:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23800934
http://213.4.18.135:48080/64.pdf
pancreatic cancer study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14709735
Really, if you want to compare phen to a "safe" treatment don't chose aspirin.0 -
I can't give you any info on prolonged use or side effects that could happen 5,10,15 yrs down the line i can only share my experience with it and hope that it will help you.
I did lose weight while taking it, the pill didn't make me lose the weight... the fact that it made me feel like i was on crack and not hungry whatsoever made me lose weight.
One night while in the bathroom i started to feel like i couldn't breath and was having really awful chest pains. I burst out the the bathroom and fell on the floor, im freaking out and telling my husband im having a f@*&ing heart attack. I was only 24 and like 30ish lbs overweight mind you.
It was the scariest thing ever, he called 911, fire fighters and paramedics came over and monitored me. Now i didn't have a heart attack but it sure felt like i was having one. My husband was so upset and freaked out he flushed those god awful pills down the toilet.
If you value your health try and lose the weight the normal healthy way. You are not morbidly obese, so you don't need to go on some VLC diet or use extreme tactics to lose the weight, just healthy eating, a calorie deficit and 30-60 min of exercise 3-5 days a week and you will start losing AND you won't have to compromise your health while doing so.0 -
Yes, I was told it was ok to take Phen for as long as I want. I now have a hole in my heart valve which I now need to take medication for the rest of my life.
Yes, go ahead and take it because your doctor said it was OK!!
THE END!!!!
Phentermine alone has never cause a hole in any valves. Only when it was combined with fenfluramine was it known to cause heart valve problems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phentermine
The current state of knowledge is actually that isolated cases of valvular reflux have been reported but not at a rate significant for concern. However, given that there are no studies on the long term use efficacy and safety of phen alone it is incorrect to assume that "it must be safe" - it is only approved for short term use - even the new combos which do not have a duration limiter at this point, specifically state cessation points if the patient does not reach x% decrease y% bodyweight in so many weeks.
Adverse reactions occur at a rate of about 5%. Which is not surprising - no effective treatment is without risk but these do not seem to be serious adverse effects.
In general these adverse reactions are low. However, consider that there are also increases risks of anxiety (see the study here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3260065/)
Given the economic and historic associated health risk and the absence of long term data the reaction of people here is valid.
It is preferable to attempt a non-drug lifestyle solution first, failing that, these treatments do seem to be preferable versus surgical or "just staying fat" given their own cost and health related risk.
In the absence of long term data, there is a Korean post-market study that demonstrates a high level of adverse effects but not of a serious nature.
Now, the OP has clearly decided that this is her path so in reality I'm only posting this for those that are looking for information and might have a more open mindset.
Yes, there are adverse effects.
No long term studies give a good information of phen being a good treatment choice. Post-market studies do show significant adverse effects for a "less than mortal" nature.
It is a possible treatment path (obviously) but the preferable path should be lifestyle intervention first, when possible.
http://pdf.medrang.co.kr/Kafm/034/Jkafm034-05-02.pdf
Which is a long way of saying there has been no proof of holes in heart valves....like I said before.
BTW: Why did you pick a study done in South Korea?
Err, no there are cases of individual heart reflux damage (as state by the FDA and which would be in the adverse effects reporting network - which I am not allowed to copy here, had I looked them up). They are not statistically significant. There is a small difference between "no proof" and proof of uncertain value. (This might seem perhaps pedantic to you.) It is sufficient evidence to suggest further study.
The Korea study seems like an ok post market study, many others aren't published or available freely. It also has a large number of participants and a nice summary table of AEs. If you have a different source and prefer to post it, feel free, it's your thread.
Scroll up/back and read on another post on Phentermine and Fenfluramine and which chemicals they directly influence. There in lies your answer as to why there is NO PROOF of heart valve holes and it will clear up the confusion as to why there is "uncertain value" which does means it is correlative and is statistically insignificant. But I am guessing you already knew this anyway.
I read your post - as someone with deep pharma background (I am not involved in any way in the manufacture or marketing of phen or competitor products nor diet drugs) I would never consider that any drug has such pure specificity that it only affects one molecule and that there is not a cascade of effects. Knowing a high level biochemical interaction, especially in weight loss drugs, has resulted in the fiascos such as phen-fen combos.
I can think of at least several mechanism of epinephrine and heart disease - for example, comorbidity of heart inflammation due to infection (quite common) which would then show up in a cascade. Sure, possible not single cause but concommitant cause.0 -
Actually Phen has been removed from the EU market because unlike your certainty, health care professional do have some doubts about efficacy/safety profile.Yes, I was told it was ok to take Phen for as long as I want. I now have a hole in my heart valve which I now need to take medication for the rest of my life.
Yes, go ahead and take it because your doctor said it was OK!!
THE END!!!!
Phentermine alone has never cause a hole in any valves. Only when it was combined with fenfluramine was it known to cause heart valve problems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phentermine
Wait, wait, wait... So no one's allowed to make sweeping statements regarding your health, but it's perfectly okay for you to tell this woman that the hole in her heart valve isn't real because Wikipedia says so?
To be honest, I've just sat here and read almost all of this thread, having PCOS myself and thinking I might be of some help, but you've been so incredibly rude to people who are only trying to help you, I'm only responding so I haven't completely wasted the last hour of my life. You asked if using Phentermine was something you should do long term, people answered with a loud and resounding no, and you thought the appropriate response was to dismiss them basically as nutjobs? Your question has been answered. Just because people don't use Wikipedia (of all things) to reinforce their opinions doesn't make them any less valid. If that's still not good enough for you, then take the second most common piece of advice this thread has offered you and seek an opinion from a different doctor.
People on this thread have provided alot of false information as well as their own hyperbole and opinions on Phentermine, much of which has not been based in facts. Also, as I stated before, I never asked for anyone's advice. The OP was an information mining expedition on those that knew of, have heard of or had personal experience long term on just phentermine. I think I have gotten less than a handful of people giving me actual medical journal links on the matter and no one that has reported being on phentermine for long term (i.e. 5, 10, 15 years)
So yes, I am calling BS on phentermine alone causing holes in valves. Here is why: Fenfluramine (the drug that was combined with Fen-Phen) causing valvular heart disease and pulmonary hypertension had already been correlated to have bad effects of systemic serotonin. It had already been known for decades that two of the major side-effects of the carcinoid syndrome (i.e. tumors or lesions) in which EXCESSIVE serotonin is produced endogenously resulting in valvular disease and pulmonary hypertension. Several studies were able to note a relationship to an excessive activation of the serotonin receptor, thus raising the potential for vale and pulmonary hypertension issues. Fenfluramine has been removed from the market, Phentermine has not.
Only approved by FDA for short term use. So an argument that it's ok for long term use is moot.Phentermine since its FDA approval in 1959 has never alone been linked to heart valve or pulmonary HTN problems. It was only until is combined use with Fenfluramine that it got any type of press to such. That is because phentermine works primarily on norepinephrine which has not been know to cause problems with valves or pulmonary HTN. Norepinephrine functions primarily to activate flight or fight and dosen't affect the smooth muscle tissue/cardiac muscles.
So sorry if you think that I and the science/facts are "rude", but there is just no way that phentermine causes holes in heart valves based on the chemical make up and how it affects the body. It is like saying aspirin gives people tumors...there is no scientific proof to claim such. Are there people that have taken aspirin that have gotten tumors?...probably. But the likelihood they got it from the aspirin it unlikely, just as holes in hearts from phentermine is just as unlikely.
I love aspirin examples. As to cancer and aspirin, it's funny you should raise the point, there is very strong evidence that aspirin reduces the risk of a few few types of cancer. However, it is also likely involved in pancreatic cancer. Furthermore, it might seem like a banal treatment but asprin and NSAIDs are directly responsible for 10 000+ deaths per year.
protective role:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23800934
http://213.4.18.135:48080/64.pdf
pancreatic cancer study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14709735
Really, if you want to compare phen to a "safe" treatment don't chose aspirin.
Really, wasn't comparing Phentermine to aspirin. I was comparing how it is absurd to say I got X, Y ,Z from this drug when there is no statistically significant evidence to say otherwise. Aspirin was just a "For example"
Thanks for all the rest of the information on Aspirin though...I am sure someone will find it useful.
Additional Relevant to the UK and EU all surrounding the Fen-Phen (i.e bad heart valves) scare and why they pulled it...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/710340.stm0 -
I read your post - as someone with deep pharma background (I am not involved in any way in the manufacture or marketing of phen or competitor products nor diet drugs) I would never consider that any drug has such pure specificity that it only affects one molecule and that there is not a cascade of effects. Knowing a high level biochemical interaction, especially in weight loss drugs, has resulted in the fiascos such as phen-fen combos.
I can think of at least several mechanism of epinephrine and heart disease - for example, comorbidity of heart inflammation due to infection (quite common) which would then show up in a cascade. Sure, possible not single cause but concommitant cause.
Didn't make the argument that a drug only effects one molecule or the negating cascade effects. Nor did I state that norepinephrine does not affect the heart, it most certainly does in much the same way that fear, excitement and anger do. I am saying that (once again) given what Phentermine does, it is highly unlikely it affects smooth muscle/cardiac muscle to cause degradation in the tissue.
Curious, If Phentermine causes heart valve holes....how is it that laws suit against phentermine are not being filed for this issue? They do not have that on their posted side effects....which several posters have been so kind as to provide on this thread.0 -
I can't give you any info on prolonged use or side effects that could happen 5,10,15 yrs down the line i can only share my experience with it and hope that it will help you.
I did lose weight while taking it, the pill didn't make me lose the weight... the fact that it made me feel like i was on crack and not hungry whatsoever made me lose weight.
One night while in the bathroom i started to feel like i couldn't breath and was having really awful chest pains. I burst out the the bathroom and fell on the floor, im freaking out and telling my husband im having a f@*&ing heart attack. I was only 24 and like 30ish lbs overweight mind you.
It was the scariest thing ever, he called 911, fire fighters and paramedics came over and monitored me. Now i didn't have a heart attack but it sure felt like i was having one. My husband was so upset and freaked out he flushed those god awful pills down the toilet.
If you value your health try and lose the weight the normal healthy way. You are not morbidly obese, so you don't need to go on some VLC diet or use extreme tactics to lose the weight, just healthy eating, a calorie deficit and 30-60 min of exercise 3-5 days a week and you will start losing AND you won't have to compromise your health while doing so.
Sounds like you had a panic attack. Scary stuff for sure, and yes, phentermine can cause adverse reactions like anxiety. For some people.0 -
Hey OP. You can search for studies yourself.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
All people can do is do those same searches and report back to you (as has been happening). I advise you to seek out your own answers at this point.
Good luck! :flowerforyou:0 -
You're getting loads of advice from a website where people LOVE posting their opinions and sometimes, talking out of their *kitten*. I suggest that you go and ask for a second opinion from another doctor, as that is likely to give the most accurate assessment (and will be personalised to your medical history).0
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Hey OP. You can search for studies yourself.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
All people can do is do those same searches and report back to you (as has been happening). I advise you to seek out your own answers at this point.
Good luck! :flowerforyou:
Thanks and have been to this site via another poster leading me there.
By this point...it is just...I dunno...guessing it is just entertainment going back and forth with some folks.
Another little Gem I got from someone that posted was The Journal of Obesity (Who knew there was a Medical Journal just for Obesity?) Been looking at this journal and other studies done via this Journal and it has been interesting and informative. :-)0 -
Really, wasn't comparing Phentermine to aspirin. I was comparing how it is absurd to say I got X, Y ,Z from this drug when there is no statistically significant evidence to say otherwise. Aspirin was just a "For example"
Thanks for all the rest of the information on Aspirin though...I am sure someone will find it useful.
Additional Relevant to the UK and EU all surrounding the Fen-Phen (i.e bad heart valves) scare and why they pulled it...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/710340.stm
Ah, but it was your example that was absurd.
If you are interested in the real reason for EU refusal of Phen - go to the source, EMA now publishes info on product reviews.
From the Qsiva filing.
.Safety issues
Known adverse events with the use of phentermine are palpitations, tachycardia, elevation of blood
pressure, psychosis, CNS and gastrointestinal effects and with the use of topiramate paraesthesia, changes
in taste, ocular disorders, psychiatric and cognitive disorders. Many of these adverse events were also
reported with Qsiva as a fixed-dose combination of phentermine/topiramate in four pivotal Phase III studies
and two supportive Phase II studies. There was a dose-dependent increase in the incidence of depression
(3.8% in the mid dose group vs. 7.7% in the highest dose group, with 3.4% in the placebo group), anxiety
(4.8% vs. 7.9%, respectively, with 2.6% in the placebo group), insomnia (6.8% vs. 10.8%, respectively,
with 5.7% in the placebo group), paraesthesia (11.8% vs. 17.3%, respectively, with 1.2% in the placebo
group) and cognitive disorders (5.0% vs. 7.6%, respectively, with 1.5% in the placebo group; mainly
attention disturbances, memory impairment and language disorders). In the setting of long term use of this
product in a large population, the frequency of adverse psychiatric effects and their consequences, as well as
the cognitive effects, are unknownPhentermine’s mechanism of action is of concern as it has sympathomimetic properties inducing cardiac stimulation and its use is associated with an increase in heart rate. It is only being approved for short term periods of treatment (less than three months) and its long term cardiac toxicity is unknown.
http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Other/human/002350/WC500147577.pdf
As to your claim that there are no cardio cases, I can, really as last suggestion offer, the text from the labelthere have been rare cases of PPH in patients who reportedly have taken phentermine alone.The possible role of phentermine in the etiology of these valvulopathies has not been established and their course in individuals after the drugs are stopped is not known. The possibility of an association between valvular heart disease and the use of phentermine alone cannot be ruled out; there have been rare cases of valvular heart disease in patients who reportedly have taken phentermine alone.
So while I agree that it is highly unlikely to have a risk og heart disease, this is different from no cases.
Anyway, best of luck on your weight loss and quest for a doctor.
PS - Along with JoO there are another half dozen reputable journals around obesity and metabolism.0 -
Maybe you're not going to hear that magical answer 'yes, it's okay' because it hasn't been truely approved for long- term use.
Phentermine should be used as a short term drug to help patients to start losing weight while the patient is undergoing permanent long term changes in their attitude towards food and exercise. The body starts to build up a resistance to the effects of Phentermine after a few weeks of treatment, by which time the patient should be well on their way to a new lifestyle and ready to stop taking Phentermine while continuing to maintain a healthy weight on their own. Taking Phentermine is not a substitute for proper diet. For maximum effect, Phentermine must be used in conjunction with a diet and exercise program.
There are many reasons for this. Personally, anyone willing to take amphetamines long-term can't be that concerned with their overall well-being of health. In, time the body will form a tolerance requiring you to up the dose. If a Dr. Was to tell you that you could remain on the same dose for 20 years and it was to remain effective, he would be lying, and the pill would basically be a psychological placebo. Eventually you would be on such a high dose, that the side effects would outweigh any benefit.
I have history in pharmaceutical work, addiction and addiction treatment and to be honest I don't think you'll find an answer here. I also could find a dr. To prescribe me any variety of pharmaceuticals and tell me they were safe for long term. This is the pill happy world we live in. Quick fix Miracles in a capsule. <enter sarcasm>0 -
Phentermine, although chemically related, is not an amphetamine. Studies have also shown that it is non-addictive (unlike amphetamines). I don't know about a decrease in effectiveness over time, but if there is, that is certainly something to be considered.I have history in pharmaceutical work, addiction and addiction treatment0 -
Hey from reading forums about this mfp HATES people needing a boost. Hence people get snarled at for asking about it, its a lazy, its innappropriate blah blah. each to their own.
From experience with Duromine (same stuff) You are suppose to eat 2000 calories and burn 500 off a day. It suppressed my apatite, i couldn't sleep, i was MOODY and agitated beyond my belief. One day I would be F the world the next day I would be crying about anything from my hair not being right or clothes not sitting right or not being able to do something, literally anything.
Heart rate was pumping and I felt alive and did a lot of cleaning haha. I was so thirsty and I was monitoring myself everyday!
I had read about so many people losing HEAPS and I was like OH YEAH! I lost like 2 kilos in a month and nothing the next month hell i didnt even have side effects and by the third month I was so bloody hungry and I just felt the need to eat more than I had been and then i became highly emotional again and blah lol. I think I recorded a months worth to a blog on mfp, i hate diaries so I tend to quit after a while lol.
Anyways although it may be unethical, it isn't anyone's business and haters are going to hate. There are various reasons why people take it. They could be obese and have medical issues that prevent weight loss, they might have no energy even with the right foods and it may be the key to a start. Or it may be all of the above and more.
All i know is its a 3 month monitored journey to kick start weight loss for those who have had massive difficulties. The pros and cons are different for everyone.
Long term- My Dr said it doesn't have addictive qualities, 3 month trial, see how it goes to kick start me in the right direction after all my issues made it impossible for me to lose weight alone........
It isnt meant for long term use and once your under 30BMI your not eligible, however I have no idea what the initials stand for so you may be the case that it benefits for long term?
However I seen another Dr and he said it is pointless, people dont change their ways and it comes all back on and the "MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO LOSE WEIGHT AND KEEP IT OFF IS starvation"
So for you haters out there picking on people for legally and responsibly seeking assistance with the guidance of their Dr. Who do you want to punch in the face more people who get assistance from knowledgeable Dr's who suggest a short term prescription with diet and exercise or people who take the advice of the Dr starvation "dont eat until your satisfied, if you feel satisfied you have eaten too much, eat but smaller amounts and you should always feel hungry and go to bed hungry and EXERCISE IS POINTLESS!....." ?0 -
Maybe you're not going to hear that magical answer 'yes, it's okay' because it hasn't been truely approved for long- term use.
Phentermine should be used as a short term drug to help patients to start losing weight while the patient is undergoing permanent long term changes in their attitude towards food and exercise. The body starts to build up a resistance to the effects of Phentermine after a few weeks of treatment, by which time the patient should be well on their way to a new lifestyle and ready to stop taking Phentermine while continuing to maintain a healthy weight on their own. Taking Phentermine is not a substitute for proper diet. For maximum effect, Phentermine must be used in conjunction with a diet and exercise program.
There are many reasons for this. Personally, anyone willing to take amphetamines long-term can't be that concerned with their overall well-being of health. In, time the body will form a tolerance requiring you to up the dose. If a Dr. Was to tell you that you could remain on the same dose for 20 years and it was to remain effective, he would be lying, and the pill would basically be a psychological placebo. Eventually you would be on such a high dose, that the side effects would outweigh any benefit.
I have history in pharmaceutical work, addiction and addiction treatment and to be honest I don't think you'll find an answer here. I also could find a dr. To prescribe me any variety of pharmaceuticals and tell me they were safe for long term. This is the pill happy world we live in. Quick fix Miracles in a capsule. <enter sarcasm>
I wasn't asking a yes no question or seeking permission for anything...again..please refer to the original OP.....In fact....I have given up getting an answer via the original OP as it has been derailed beyond repair. Most of what people are posting now is just a repeating of something that has already been said (again, none of what was ever asked) or posted including continued judgements and opinions on those that would take phentermine.
And as someone already pointed out, Phentermine has been studied and there is no evidence of addiction.0 -
I didn't read all of the post and maybe I'm way off base but I'm insulin resistant and prediabetic and I've never been more than 5 pounds overweight. I don't have PCOS, but I've never understood why people act like you lose weight any differently. It may be harder, but it is not impossible. Take the phentermine if you want. Several people have already said it's not a good idea and you can lose weight without it. Do what you want, but you don't need it to lose weight. There are side effects and there is no telling how you will respond to this long term.0
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Cut your white carbs out and you will lose weight and feel great... no need for long term medication... whether its addictive or not, its not natural . Ive taken it before, and yes I lost weight, but gained it back once I stopped taking it... as far as long term, I would get a different doctor for a 2nd opinion as most research shows that its not a medication to be used for the rest of your life, most are prescribed it for 3-9 months.0
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Really, wasn't comparing Phentermine to aspirin. I was comparing how it is absurd to say I got X, Y ,Z from this drug when there is no statistically significant evidence to say otherwise. Aspirin was just a "For example"
Thanks for all the rest of the information on Aspirin though...I am sure someone will find it useful.
Additional Relevant to the UK and EU all surrounding the Fen-Phen (i.e bad heart valves) scare and why they pulled it...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/710340.stm
Ah, but it was your example that was absurd.
If you are interested in the real reason for EU refusal of Phen - go to the source, EMA now publishes info on product reviews.
From the Qsiva filing.
.Safety issues
Known adverse events with the use of phentermine are palpitations, tachycardia, elevation of blood
pressure, psychosis, CNS and gastrointestinal effects and with the use of topiramate paraesthesia, changes
in taste, ocular disorders, psychiatric and cognitive disorders. Many of these adverse events were also
reported with Qsiva as a fixed-dose combination of phentermine/topiramate in four pivotal Phase III studies
and two supportive Phase II studies. There was a dose-dependent increase in the incidence of depression
(3.8% in the mid dose group vs. 7.7% in the highest dose group, with 3.4% in the placebo group), anxiety
(4.8% vs. 7.9%, respectively, with 2.6% in the placebo group), insomnia (6.8% vs. 10.8%, respectively,
with 5.7% in the placebo group), paraesthesia (11.8% vs. 17.3%, respectively, with 1.2% in the placebo
group) and cognitive disorders (5.0% vs. 7.6%, respectively, with 1.5% in the placebo group; mainly
attention disturbances, memory impairment and language disorders). In the setting of long term use of this
product in a large population, the frequency of adverse psychiatric effects and their consequences, as well as
the cognitive effects, are unknownPhentermine’s mechanism of action is of concern as it has sympathomimetic properties inducing cardiac stimulation and its use is associated with an increase in heart rate. It is only being approved for short term periods of treatment (less than three months) and its long term cardiac toxicity is unknown.
http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Other/human/002350/WC500147577.pdf
As to your claim that there are no cardio cases, I can, really as last suggestion offer, the text from the labelthere have been rare cases of PPH in patients who reportedly have taken phentermine alone.The possible role of phentermine in the etiology of these valvulopathies has not been established and their course in individuals after the drugs are stopped is not known. The possibility of an association between valvular heart disease and the use of phentermine alone cannot be ruled out; there have been rare cases of valvular heart disease in patients who reportedly have taken phentermine alone.
So while I agree that it is highly unlikely to have a risk og heart disease, this is different from no cases.
Anyway, best of luck on your weight loss and quest for a doctor.
PS - Along with JoO there are another half dozen reputable journals around obesity and metabolism.
It is pointless continue to debate with you as you are ignoring all facts that I have stated (as well as glossing over the facts in your own cut and paste information) as well as forgoing all reason. You even ignored point blank the stated reason Phentermine was banned in the UK via my link and began to provide your own "Truth"...but I am learning people who do not like or believe in phentermine this is a running theme.... and the ideological debate will continue and those pesky things like facts will be overlooked for more visceral information like strongly stated judgements and opinions......That is what is truly absurd.0 -
Really, wasn't comparing Phentermine to aspirin. I was comparing how it is absurd to say I got X, Y ,Z from this drug when there is no statistically significant evidence to say otherwise. Aspirin was just a "For example"
Thanks for all the rest of the information on Aspirin though...I am sure someone will find it useful.
Additional Relevant to the UK and EU all surrounding the Fen-Phen (i.e bad heart valves) scare and why they pulled it...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/710340.stm
Ah, but it was your example that was absurd.
If you are interested in the real reason for EU refusal of Phen - go to the source, EMA now publishes info on product reviews.
From the Qsiva filing.
.Safety issues
Known adverse events with the use of phentermine are palpitations, tachycardia, elevation of blood
pressure, psychosis, CNS and gastrointestinal effects and with the use of topiramate paraesthesia, changes
in taste, ocular disorders, psychiatric and cognitive disorders. Many of these adverse events were also
reported with Qsiva as a fixed-dose combination of phentermine/topiramate in four pivotal Phase III studies
and two supportive Phase II studies. There was a dose-dependent increase in the incidence of depression
(3.8% in the mid dose group vs. 7.7% in the highest dose group, with 3.4% in the placebo group), anxiety
(4.8% vs. 7.9%, respectively, with 2.6% in the placebo group), insomnia (6.8% vs. 10.8%, respectively,
with 5.7% in the placebo group), paraesthesia (11.8% vs. 17.3%, respectively, with 1.2% in the placebo
group) and cognitive disorders (5.0% vs. 7.6%, respectively, with 1.5% in the placebo group; mainly
attention disturbances, memory impairment and language disorders). In the setting of long term use of this
product in a large population, the frequency of adverse psychiatric effects and their consequences, as well as
the cognitive effects, are unknownPhentermine’s mechanism of action is of concern as it has sympathomimetic properties inducing cardiac stimulation and its use is associated with an increase in heart rate. It is only being approved for short term periods of treatment (less than three months) and its long term cardiac toxicity is unknown.
http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Other/human/002350/WC500147577.pdf
As to your claim that there are no cardio cases, I can, really as last suggestion offer, the text from the labelthere have been rare cases of PPH in patients who reportedly have taken phentermine alone.The possible role of phentermine in the etiology of these valvulopathies has not been established and their course in individuals after the drugs are stopped is not known. The possibility of an association between valvular heart disease and the use of phentermine alone cannot be ruled out; there have been rare cases of valvular heart disease in patients who reportedly have taken phentermine alone.
So while I agree that it is highly unlikely to have a risk og heart disease, this is different from no cases.
Anyway, best of luck on your weight loss and quest for a doctor.
PS - Along with JoO there are another half dozen reputable journals around obesity and metabolism.
It is pointless continue to debate with you as you are ignoring all facts that I have stated (as well as glossing over the facts in your own cut and paste information) as well as forgoing all reason. You even ignored point blank the stated reason Phentermine was banned in the UK via my link and began to provide your own "Truth"...but I am learning people who do not like or believe in phentermine this is a running theme.... and the ideological debate will continue and those pesky things like facts will be overlooked for more visceral information like strongly stated judgements and opinions......That is what is truly absurd.
You're arguing that *Evg* is participating in selective debating and cherry picking?
I truly wish there was an ability to unsubscribe from threads so I could pretend like this thread doesn't exist and not see when there are updates to it.0 -
I didn't read all of the post and maybe I'm way off base but I'm insulin resistant and prediabetic and I've never been more than 5 pounds overweight. I don't have PCOS, but I've never understood why people act like you lose weight any differently. It may be harder, but it is not impossible. Take the phentermine if you want. Several people have already said it's not a good idea and you can lose weight without it. Do what you want, but you don't need it to lose weight. There are side effects and there is no telling how you will respond to this long term.
Because there are several different types of PCOS and obviously people lose weight differntly and I explained some posts ago why it is different/harder for some with PCOS to lose weight....not all with PCOS.
You are in good company however of people who didn't fully read or understand the OP and of the ranks of posters who provided unsolicited advice and opinions that I didn't ask for about phentermine.0 -
You're arguing that *Evg* is participating in selective debating and cherry picking?
I truly wish there was an ability to unsubscribe from threads so I could pretend like this thread doesn't exist and not see when there are updates to it.
Have at it. It is within you control not to respond or even read posts....so good luck to you with that.0 -
You have a baby ... You worked very hard to have said baby ... I assume you would like to be around to see said baby grow into an adult ...
Gut if not, go ahead, ignore what everyone hear is telling you, and take what amounts to pharmaceutical meth, long-term ...
Traditional diet and exercise, it works ... I have a thyroid condition, I have to be a bit more careful than the average person to maintain, You have PCOS, you have to be a bit more careful, too ... Boohoo, suck it up and stop complaining ...0 -
You have a baby ... You worked very hard to have said baby ... I assume you would like to be around to see said baby grow into an adult ...
Gut if not, go ahead, ignore what everyone hear is telling you, and take what amounts to pharmaceutical meth, long-term ...
Traditional diet and exercise, it works ... I have a thyroid condition, I have to be a bit more careful than the average person to maintain, You have PCOS, you have to be a bit more careful, too ... Boohoo, suck it up and stop complaining ...
Never asked if I should take Phentermine long term...never stated I wanted to take phetermine long term....never asked for anyone's advice about if i should or should not take phentermine...never....BLAH....this is hopeless.....I can't barely even type refer to the original OP anymore....just going to cut and paste from now on I think.
I am thinking to myself people can not really be this dense...right???0 -
i'm still waiting for someone to pop in here with a Phen success story. All these posts and not a single one. Sure, a bunch of people, including the OP, have stated that they "lost weight while on it, but then gained it back for 'different reasons' other than just ceasing to take the drug. Tons of users, lots of bad reactions and side effects, but not one person that was like, "Yep, I took it, lost all the weight, stopped taking it and have been eating normally and not gaining back the weight for X years. Yeah, this really sounds like a drug I'd want to be on for a long time. All the side effects and none of the success.
Can someone pop over to the Success Stories section of the site and see if there are any Phen tales in there? Damn sure aren't any over here.0 -
Bump0
This discussion has been closed.
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