Doctor Says Phentermine Long Term Not a Problem....Really?

Am I bullying you? In what way? By continuing to post? Because I called your plan to make this thread span 3 years silly? I haven't expressed any manner of opinion about your Phen use or offered any manner of unwanted advice. Where does the bully aspects come in?

Again...any confusion...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber-bullying

So. What have I done with "intent to harm"?

Rule #1- Don't feed the Trolls

I am done feeding the Trolls

No one is trolling. The closest would actually be you.

Am I bullying you? In what way? By continuing to post? Because I called your plan to make this thread span 3 years silly? I haven't expressed any manner of opinion about your Phen use or offered any manner of unwanted advice. Where does the bully aspects come in?

Again...any confusion...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber-bullying

So. What have I done with "intent to harm"?

Rule #1- Don't feed the Trolls

I am done feeding the Trolls

Hah.

I actually laughed out loud.

Really, wasn't comparing Phentermine to aspirin. I was comparing how it is absurd to say I got X, Y ,Z from this drug when there is no statistically significant evidence to say otherwise. Aspirin was just a "For example"

Thanks for all the rest of the information on Aspirin though...I am sure someone will find it useful.

Additional Relevant to the UK and EU all surrounding the Fen-Phen (i.e bad heart valves) scare and why they pulled it...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/710340.stm

Ah, but it was your example that was absurd.

If you are interested in the real reason for EU refusal of Phen - go to the source, EMA now publishes info on product reviews.

From the Qsiva filing.

Safety issues
Known adverse events with the use of phentermine are palpitations, tachycardia, elevation of blood
pressure, psychosis, CNS and gastrointestinal effects and with the use of topiramate paraesthesia, changes
in taste, ocular disorders, psychiatric and cognitive disorders. Many of these adverse events were also
reported with Qsiva as a fixed-dose combination of phentermine/topiramate in four pivotal Phase III studies
and two supportive Phase II studies. There was a dose-dependent increase in the incidence of depression
(3.8% in the mid dose group vs. 7.7% in the highest dose group, with 3.4% in the placebo group), anxiety
(4.8% vs. 7.9%, respectively, with 2.6% in the placebo group), insomnia (6.8% vs. 10.8%, respectively,
with 5.7% in the placebo group), paraesthesia (11.8% vs. 17.3%, respectively, with 1.2% in the placebo
group) and cognitive disorders (5.0% vs. 7.6%, respectively, with 1.5% in the placebo group; mainly
attention disturbances, memory impairment and language disorders). In the setting of long term use of this
product in a large population, the frequency of adverse psychiatric effects and their consequences, as well as
the cognitive effects, are unknown

.

Phentermine’s mechanism of action is of concern as it has sympathomimetic properties inducing cardiac stimulation and its use is associated with an increase in heart rate. It is only being approved for short term periods of treatment (less than three months) and its long term cardiac toxicity is unknown.

http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Other/human/002350/WC500147577.pdf

As to your claim that there are no cardio cases, I can, really as last suggestion offer, the text from the label

there have been rare cases of PPH in patients who reportedly have taken phentermine alone.

The possible role of phentermine in the etiology of these valvulopathies has not been established and their course in individuals after the drugs are stopped is not known. The possibility of an association between valvular heart disease and the use of phentermine alone cannot be ruled out; there have been rare cases of valvular heart disease in patients who reportedly have taken phentermine alone.

So while I agree that it is highly unlikely to have a risk og heart disease, this is different from no cases.

Anyway, best of luck on your weight loss and quest for a doctor.

PS - Along with JoO there are another half dozen reputable journals around obesity and metabolism.

It is pointless continue to debate with you as you are ignoring all facts that I have stated (as well as glossing over the facts in your own cut and paste information) as well as forgoing all reason. You even ignored point blank the stated reason Phentermine was banned in the UK via my link and began to provide your own "Truth"...but I am learning people who do not like or believe in phentermine this is a running theme.... and the ideological debate will continue and those pesky things like facts will be overlooked for more visceral information like strongly stated judgements and opinions......That is what is truly absurd.

You posted a link to a BBC news opinion piece. I posted the actual EMA report and insert info. With regards to why it was banned in EU I would image the actual agency report is not cherry picking. It contains all the review info. If you truly want to discuss the UK decision, it would be my pleasure, but I think we are likely beyond that point, at least in this thread, but since I brought up EU legislation I stuck with that. The UK pharmaco-economics processes are actually very interesting and would suggest, for anyone interested to look up NICE and fourth barrier legislation.

And from the beginning I have stated that phen does have a role in some strategies for weight loss, it is less than ideal due to certain risks and I would only recommend it as a second choice (a recommendation that I understand doesn't concern you - as it's not only the opinion of a stranger on the Internet, and I fully agree with your approach - to ignore opinion) I've provided mostly the available info and facts from research studies were available and the fact that in the absence of long term studies, you are taking a risk on your DRs word, who is willing to prescribe off label. I'm sorry, but if anything I'm one of the likeliest posters here to take a information driven stance that tends to neutrality. You have received at no point any judgement from me about your person, the quality of your doctor (I actually do not even recommend you change doctors but that you discuss your concerns), or your choice.

The use of the word absurd was yours first. I do apologize if my bouncing it back is the cause of your upset.

Again, phen is a tool in an arsenal, it can be reasonably used, but long term success requires a methodological change in lifestyle and taking phen long term is outside of the indications, has potential unknown and unstudied risks.

If we had been talking about cholesterol drugs (in which I do have a vested interest that they be used - they provided a paycheck, in part) I would still take the same approach: indication and literature suggests that lifestyle change is both the first line of treatment and the lowest in risk incidence. Only on failure of lifestyle modification does it make sense to initiate treatment or at higher marker levels.

At this point, I do understand that you have made your point and I believe there is enough information for the casual reader interested in this to make their own decision and/or look for further information. With that, good luck, if you or others want more info from medical journals feel free to PM me. Pubmed and MESH can be a pain to navigate because medical keyword searches are sometimes very specific.

Cheers.