Are Oreos more addicting than cocaine/morphine?
Replies
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LMAO....I like this one.0 -
Alan Aragon certainly isn't an expert in this area. He has a Master of Science in Nutrition and he would have limited understanding of complex neurobiological mechanisms as well as suitable and acceptable methodology for certain types of studies. For example, would he understand and be able to interpret studies on regulation of certain types of receptors in discrete brain regions in response to certain nutrients? In my opinion, it's important to understand the limitations of 'fitness gurus" and other 'experts' and be a little open-minded to other perspectives.
Read the article and it will explain some of the methods used such as brain imaging, gene and protein expression studies, behavioral studies etc. I posted details from a review article for that very reason. It is controversial but there is a good deal of evidence to suggest that addiction to certain foods is highly likely in some individuals. I'm not certain why the strong opposition to the idea.
So what instrument are they using to determine the addictiveness of the foods?
What is the dependency?
The article you posted is highly controversial and right now sugar addiction is inconclusive.
so what will happen with the withdrawal of these particular foods?
brain imaging only does so much to see what addiction can cause. there. Alan Aragon has talked about the poorly controlled studies. Regardless, sugar and the any drug should not be compared. People have seen the similar effect of people who chronically exercise and release of dopamine, then they compare that to a "drug".
i understand it can exist in a few though
I guess you are though because you do understand it can exist in some people.0 -
I'm pretty sure the article is a joke.
But just the same...Not Even Once!0 -
I'm pretty sure the article is a joke.
But just the same...Not Even Once!
Their tone strongly implies that it is a joke. Also the news coverage stated that is was not published or peer reviewed.0 -
The next hit series on HBO: Baking Bad.
^^FTW!! Starring Paula Dean.
Or Martha Stewart.0 -
No one sits around all day eating oreos until their life falls apart around them. There have been no instances back when sugar was a rare commodity (that I know of) where people killed so they could get their sugar fix. People who are seriously addicted to cocaine and heroin neglect to take care of themselves and that includes forgetting to eat. Even oreos.
Personal anecdote but my life got to this point. I almost lost my job because I was caught taking extra food from the cafeteria, my boss came into my office and found it piled with empty soda cups, all I looked forward to after work was coming home and eating, I ate until it hurt, I'd leave the trash on the floor, I wouldnt talk to family, my coworkers started to comment on my hygiene and honestly I'd stay up all night eating, playing on the computer barely roll out of bed with no time for a shower. My binges and how I would create them was all I would really think about, working for each paycheck it went to rent, gas, and food, I could easily blow $500 for one week of binge just on going out to fast food and purchasing groceries. My Mom cried in front of me when she finally came out to visit. She was disgusted at the house and the weight I had gained. I truly had spiraled out of control. She did help me, but I would continue to lie and hide my addiction.
I still have days when it literally hurts and I just want to binge so bad. I just want to hide myself and be with my food. The fight not to go back is tremendous it occurs with every meal, and if I dont fight then I easily fall back into addictive patterns (because food is the one substance you dont get to abstain from). Food numbs, it can take away pain, yes Virginia it is addictive.
you seem to lack the understanding of what addiction really is. Your problem is most likely due to coping mechanisms or even a neurological problem where satiety cannot be reached.
Most people abuse drugs and alcohol as a coping mechanism. Can't speak from the neurological aspect, but I suspect that type of condition is rare.
the thing is that there is an chemical addiction for drugs, this doesnt apply the same for food. its different.
Dependence is dependence. Regardless of whether it is a chemical or just a compulsion, ultimately, the brain responds the exact same way when the dependence is satisfied.
Like I said earlier, dependence will occur far faster with chemicals than with food because our bodies are meant to consume food, but that doesn't mean that dependence cannot be created.
Again, it takes a lot to become "dependent" on food the way that a junkie is dependent upon heroine. But it's not impossible, and dismissing food addiction is just as offensive to the true food addict as blaming a lack of will power on addiction is to a narcotic addict.0 -
Short answer: no.
Long answer: no.
Backwards answer: On.0 -
I'm pretty sure the article is a joke.
But just the same...Not Even Once!
Their tone strongly implies that it is a joke. Also the news coverage stated that is was not published or peer reviewed.
Except for serious news media outlets published the story, giving credence.
I hate the media. This study was obviously bogus!0 -
No one sits around all day eating oreos until their life falls apart around them. There have been no instances back when sugar was a rare commodity (that I know of) where people killed so they could get their sugar fix. People who are seriously addicted to cocaine and heroin neglect to take care of themselves and that includes forgetting to eat. Even oreos.
Personal anecdote but my life got to this point. I almost lost my job because I was caught taking extra food from the cafeteria, my boss came into my office and found it piled with empty soda cups, all I looked forward to after work was coming home and eating, I ate until it hurt, I'd leave the trash on the floor, I wouldnt talk to family, my coworkers started to comment on my hygiene and honestly I'd stay up all night eating, playing on the computer barely roll out of bed with no time for a shower. My binges and how I would create them was all I would really think about, working for each paycheck it went to rent, gas, and food, I could easily blow $500 for one week of binge just on going out to fast food and purchasing groceries. My Mom cried in front of me when she finally came out to visit. She was disgusted at the house and the weight I had gained. I truly had spiraled out of control. She did help me, but I would continue to lie and hide my addiction.
I still have days when it literally hurts and I just want to binge so bad. I just want to hide myself and be with my food. The fight not to go back is tremendous it occurs with every meal, and if I dont fight then I easily fall back into addictive patterns (because food is the one substance you dont get to abstain from). Food numbs, it can take away pain, yes Virginia it is addictive.
you seem to lack the understanding of what addiction really is. Your problem is most likely due to coping mechanisms or even a neurological problem where satiety cannot be reached.
Most people abuse drugs and alcohol as a coping mechanism. Can't speak from the neurological aspect, but I suspect that type of condition is rare.
the thing is that there is an chemical addiction for drugs, this doesnt apply the same for food. its different.
Dependence is dependence. Regardless of whether it is a chemical or just a compulsion, ultimately, the brain responds the exact same way when the dependence is satisfied.
Like I said earlier, dependence will occur far faster with chemicals than with food because our bodies are meant to consume food, but that doesn't mean that dependence cannot be created.
Again, it takes a lot to become "dependent" on food the way that a junkie is dependent upon heroine. But it's not impossible, and dismissing food addiction is just as offensive to the true food addict as blaming a lack of will power on addiction is to a narcotic addict.
An eating disorder is not the same as an addiction. The sooner you stop treating them as the same thing the better for your health. Your problem isn't a physical addiction, it's a psychological compulsion. Well, IANAD, but that's how it seems from what you've said.
In any case, unless you've been both a junkie and a "food addict", I don't think you should compare the two as glibly as you have.0 -
No one sits around all day eating oreos until their life falls apart around them. There have been no instances back when sugar was a rare commodity (that I know of) where people killed so they could get their sugar fix. People who are seriously addicted to cocaine and heroin neglect to take care of themselves and that includes forgetting to eat. Even oreos.
Personal anecdote but my life got to this point. I almost lost my job because I was caught taking extra food from the cafeteria, my boss came into my office and found it piled with empty soda cups, all I looked forward to after work was coming home and eating, I ate until it hurt, I'd leave the trash on the floor, I wouldnt talk to family, my coworkers started to comment on my hygiene and honestly I'd stay up all night eating, playing on the computer barely roll out of bed with no time for a shower. My binges and how I would create them was all I would really think about, working for each paycheck it went to rent, gas, and food, I could easily blow $500 for one week of binge just on going out to fast food and purchasing groceries. My Mom cried in front of me when she finally came out to visit. She was disgusted at the house and the weight I had gained. I truly had spiraled out of control. She did help me, but I would continue to lie and hide my addiction.
I still have days when it literally hurts and I just want to binge so bad. I just want to hide myself and be with my food. The fight not to go back is tremendous it occurs with every meal, and if I dont fight then I easily fall back into addictive patterns (because food is the one substance you dont get to abstain from). Food numbs, it can take away pain, yes Virginia it is addictive.
you seem to lack the understanding of what addiction really is. Your problem is most likely due to coping mechanisms or even a neurological problem where satiety cannot be reached.
Most people abuse drugs and alcohol as a coping mechanism. Can't speak from the neurological aspect, but I suspect that type of condition is rare.
the thing is that there is an chemical addiction for drugs, this doesnt apply the same for food. its different.
Dependence is dependence. Regardless of whether it is a chemical or just a compulsion, ultimately, the brain responds the exact same way when the dependence is satisfied.
Like I said earlier, dependence will occur far faster with chemicals than with food because our bodies are meant to consume food, but that doesn't mean that dependence cannot be created.
Again, it takes a lot to become "dependent" on food the way that a junkie is dependent upon heroine. But it's not impossible, and dismissing food addiction is just as offensive to the true food addict as blaming a lack of will power on addiction is to a narcotic addict.
An eating disorder is not the same as an addiction. The sooner you stop treating them as the same thing the better for your health. Your problem isn't a physical addiction, it's a psychological compulsion. Well, IANAD, but that's how it seems from what you've said.
In any case, unless you've been both a junkie and a "food addict", I don't think you should compare the two as glibly as you have.
Actually, I am a recovering addict. 8 years clean in December. But your input is really helpful, thanks.
If you read back through the thread, I stated that I have met several people on this site that had a similar story as mine, except with food.
You're not a very empathetic person. Obviously, you haven't had much experience with either type of addiction yourself.0 -
http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/no-oreos-arent-as-addictive-as-cocaine
Given a choice between Oreos and cocaine, the mice chose cocaine. If they were addicted to Oreos, then they would have chosen the Oreos.But when the study is picked up by major media outlets throughout the country, it can do real damage, according to Carl Erickson, director of the University of Texas' Addiction Science Research and Education Center.
"I think that a study like this can be devastating with respect to public understanding of what addiction is and what it's not," Erickson said. "First of all, there's no science behind food being addicting in spite of what general public feels. Reporters often publish this sensationalism trying to get people to think you can be addicted to lingerie, to food, to a cell phone, to the tanning booth."0 -
I'm pretty sure the article is a joke.
But just the same...Not Even Once!
Their tone strongly implies that it is a joke. Also the news coverage stated that is was not published or peer reviewed.
Yes, they didn't bother to actually look at the study at all. It was a bogus study.0 -
no they are not!! I have eaten Oreo's I have never been addicted to them nor do I know of anyone who is really addicted to them. However, I was a therapist in a drug treatment center so I have seen what cocaine/morphine does to a person. Believe me Oreo's don't begin to touch that. There is a very big difference between wanting Oreo's and being addicted. Stay out of the cookie aisle and find something more positive to do. you will forget about wanting cookies if you keep busy and start building some good feelings about yourself.
QFT0 -
People are way to quick to attribute compulsion or simple lack of will power to addiction IMO.
Yep, because "studies" like this skew public perception of what addiction actually is. :ohwell:
bad habits =/= addiction0 -
If I start on a package of Oreos, it is tough for me to stop. But I have NEVER gone out to buy them at 3 a.m. because I couldn't get through the night without them (or any other food, for that matter).People are way to quick to attribute compulsion or simple lack of will power to addiction IMO.
Yep, because "studies" like this skew public perception of what addiction actually is. :ohwell:
bad habits =/= addiction
So, yeah, I like them and will compulsively eat them, but I don't physically or psychologically need them.
People don't seem to get the difference, do they?
(See??? We agree a lot!)0 -
If I start on a package of Oreos, it is tough for me to stop. But I have NEVER gone out to buy them at 3 a.m. because I couldn't get through the night without them (or any other food, for that matter).People are way to quick to attribute compulsion or simple lack of will power to addiction IMO.
Yep, because "studies" like this skew public perception of what addiction actually is. :ohwell:
bad habits =/= addiction
So, yeah, I like them and will compulsively eat them, but I don't physically or psychologically need them.
People don't seem to get the difference, do they?
(See??? We agree a lot!)
Yes, there is a big difference. I have learned to stop at 4 Oreos, and I have 6 oz of whole milk with them. I used to shock my friends when we were kids that I could eat *one* Lay's potato chips and defy the commercials. (I was never real wild about potato chips though, or cocaine for that matter. :laugh:
) 0 -
This morning I gave serious consideration to making an Oreo protein smoothie but then substituted spinach for the Oreos. What's wrong with me?0
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Oreos are a gateway drug for me..
It start with Oreos, lead to ice cream, and ends with cocaine...0 -
Are we still on this??
I just want you to know that on my cheat day this weekend, I am buying Oreos.
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Oreos are a gateway drug for me..
It start with Oreos, lead to ice cream, and ends with cocaine...
If you start with Cocaine, you won't want the Oreos or ice cream. Just sayin.0 -
Oreos are a gateway drug for me..
It start with Oreos, lead to ice cream, and ends with cocaine...
If you start with Cocaine, you won't want the Oreos or ice cream. Just sayin.
YES! But you may drink too much alcohol because you don't feel drunk so my guess is it'd be a wash lol0 -
Oreos are a gateway drug for me..
It start with Oreos, lead to ice cream, and ends with cocaine...
If you start with Cocaine, you won't want the Oreos or ice cream. Just sayin.
YES! But you may drink too much alcohol because you don't feel drunk so my guess is it'd be a wash lol
Why drink alcohol with your cocaine? That seems wasteful to me.0 -
Are we still on this??
I just want you to know that on my cheat day this weekend, I am buying Oreos.
Cheat? Oreos aren't cheating. They're just fats and carbs, with a touch of protein. Adding milk bumps the protein. :flowerforyou:0 -
yeah i heard this on the radio this morning... i call bull****!0
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To paraphrase from a Bob Saget: Have you ever sucked a **** for an oreo?..... Then no0
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Give a drug addict the choice between cocaine and an oreo.... they'll pick the cocaine everytime.0
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plus i don't want to know what they were doing with the rats in order to find their pleasure zone.0
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Are we still on this??
I just want you to know that on my cheat day this weekend, I am buying Oreos.
>implying Oreos are cheating0 -
I haven't read the responses, but here are my two cents (I should say 5 cents since we will soon not have any more pennies here )
This sounds ridiculous to me, linking things that don't necessarily go together....
So oreos taste better than rice cakes... 'everyone' knows that. If it tastes better, or course it will make you happier.
Drug/alcohol addiction also cannot be compared as because you have a physical dependency to it, doesn't mean it's pleasurable. My aunt is an alcoholic, and trust me, she's far from being a happy person, she's even more miserable when she drinks.
Sometimes, I wonder how scientists come to their conclusions... I think they need to study happy addicts and unhappy addicts and compare the effects of drugs/alcohol on them... then they might show that 'pleasure' and 'dependency' may not be so connected (not a scientist, but might be an interesting paper to write for one if it's not been done).
After that, they may start separating the term 'conditioning' and 'addiction' too. i.e. I am conditioned to eat to feel better does not = I am addicted (though I admit some people may truly be addicted to food, I don't think that most people who say they are, truly are).0
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