PALEO: pros, cons and whatever else you may think?

Butter is awesome.

But I'm not paleo. I assume butter is OK in paleo because it doesn't include any ingredients that didn't exist back then, even if Paleolithic man had neither the technology nor knowledge to actually make butter.

It is awesome, but I have heard many people say shy away from it...
Do to the fact it is hydrogenated, and can be a "cholesterol bomb" waiting to go off.....

I guess I would need a steady diet of it and then get some blood work done to see.

What? Butter is not hydrogenated. Hydrogenation is a chemical process applied to unsaturated fats to make them saturated or less unsaturated. Butter does not go through this process.

Hydrogenation is not necessarily bad either. Partial hydrogenation leads to trans fats, which are pretty bad. Trans fats are, by definition, only partially saturated. However, full hydrogenation leads to saturated fats and not trans fats.

As for cholesterol, dietary cholesterol has almost zero impact on serum cholesterol. Butter doesn't even have that much cholesterol anyway.

Butter is awesome.

But I'm not paleo. I assume butter is OK in paleo because it doesn't include any ingredients that didn't exist back then, even if Paleolithic man had neither the technology nor knowledge to actually make butter.

It is awesome, but I have heard many people say shy away from it...
Do to the fact it is hydrogenated, and can be a "cholesterol bomb" waiting to go off.....

I guess I would need a steady diet of it and then get some blood work done to see.

What? Butter is not hydrogenated. Hydrogenation is a chemical process applied to unsaturated fats to make them saturated or less unsaturated. Butter does not go through this process.

Hydrogenation is not necessarily bad either. Partial hydrogenation leads to trans fats, which are pretty bad. Trans fats are, by definition, only partially saturated. However, full hydrogenation leads to saturated fats and not trans fats.

As for cholesterol, dietary cholesterol has almost zero impact on serum cholesterol. Butter doesn't even have that much cholesterol anyway.

Thank, you that is what I meant.
Brain fart....sorry.

But Trans Fat, is what I was going for......not sure why Hydrogenated pop'd in my mind....coffee needed I guess.

But isn't butter pretty much trans-fat?

Yeah, I get that. But I still maintain my point that it may not mesh with "eat whatever you like".

It's not "eat whatever you like." It's "eat whatever you like if it fits your nutrient goals." And it meshes just fine.

Why is it that some can always remember the "eat whatever you like" part but can't seem to remember the "If It Fits Your Macros" part. Within that context, you are free to set any additional micronutrient goals you like and "eat to avoid disease risk" quite easily. Is this really that difficult a concept to grasp?

Because people cannot accept a world where there are no demon foods that must be avoided.

Or, perhaps, it's because one was replying to a post that said ONLY:

Eat what you enjoy. That's the whole point of all this! Eat what you like, and don't avoid foods you like because they're "not paleo" or "not clean" or whatever.

Pros: Real food, whole food, high protein... you will find it satisfies your appetite because of all the high protein, the lack of processed food is bound to be healthy.

Cons: For me, the main thing that stops me from going paleo is the fact that it generally discourages consumption of dairy, and I love dairy products. A large portion of my daily protein comes from cottage cheese. The lack of grains wouldn't really bother me, I rarely eat grains myself, not because I am actively trying to avoid them, but in the process of trying to keep my protein high and calories low, I find them difficult to include in my diet in any significant amount.

Another con, though not if you do it right, is that some who claim to follow the paleo diet eat things like eggs and bacon in abundance. I won't really get on eggs too much because I don't really think they are bad for you, but I doubt paleo man was often lucky enough to stumble on dozens of eggs every week... he probably had eggs now and then when he could find them, one or two at a time. But bacon... unless you are buying organic, nitrate and nitrite free bacon, it is NOT something that paleo man would ever have eaten, and it is processed heavily.

Basically I think the paleo diet is a great alternative for those who can motivate themselves to stick to it, as long as it is done correctly (no processed meats). I personally would have a hard time following it and sticking to it, and I'm losing weight fine without it.

I think any diet that emphasises whole, unprocessed, natural foods, gives you enough protein and keeps you within your calorie goal is a good choice.

And also
I guess it would be margarine, not butter
I always forget there is a difference between those two....


So margarine,
Yes or no?

Depends on how you define margarine. Traditionally margarine was made primarily of partially hydrogenated oils and thus contained mostly trans fats. However, the vast majority of products sold as "margarine" or "spread" these days contain little to no trans fat.

Eat what you enjoy. That's the whole point of all this! Eat what you like, and don't avoid foods you like because they're "not paleo" or "not clean" or whatever.

Avoiding foods because some fad diet with a cute name says they're bad is a terrible idea.

It always bothers me when people say "eat whatever you like" or "eat what you want". It so subjective without knowing what one likes or wants.

While I do agree that one should enjoy their meals, there is a certain balance that is optimal for health. And there is a certain imbalance that is greatly increases risk of disease.

Yes, and the balance is determined by nutrient content. Hence the phrase "if it fits your macros."

To achieve the right balance, focus on nutrients not labels.

I honestly don't know much about IIFYM, but I assume that you set a calorie goal and macro percentage goals and go from there. My question is, what about micro-nutrients? What about things like your Omega 3:6 ratio? What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Are all of these considered?

You can track and plan any or all of those things. I personally don't think tracking most micronutrients is much to worry about. If you're hitting your macros and getting a few servings of fruits and veggies every day then I think you're doing fine. Focus on a micronutrient if you actually demonstrate a deficiency in that nutrient.

The entire point of IIFYM as an eating philosophy is that it's the nutrients that matter, so pay attention to the nutrients that matter to you (or that you believe matter to you). If you're particularly concerned about vitamin D or omega 3:6 ratio, then it makes sense to pay attention to those things directly instead of adopting some restrictive diet that, by proxy, may help manage those things.

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

Side note: IIFYM sounds a lot like what the majority of people who call themselves "paleo" (myself included) do. We've just decided what we do and don't eat based on self-education of what does/does not make us feel our best. Sometimes we even eat those things we know don't make us feel the best (gasp!), but we typically are thoughtful about weather it's worth it or not (ie. in a social situation or a food we particularly love). I would venture to guess that while some of us may have started out eating only foods that we thought a caveman would eat, most of us don't actually believe that we are eating like cave people. Just eating the best possible way for our physical and mental health.

*edited for spelling

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

If you believe that, then don't eat those foods.

Any diet that recommends REAL food only should not be classed with any eating plan that allows franken-foods...

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

If you believe that, then don't eat those foods.

So... then why spend so much time jumping into every paleo thread and saying how silly it is? I'm sure there are foods that you don't eat (for whatever reason)?

And you still haven't answered my question. Does IIFYM address things like nutrient absorption and bio-availability?

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

If you believe that, then don't eat those foods.

So... then why spend so much time jumping into every paleo thread and saying how silly it is? I'm sure there are foods that you don't eat (for whatever reason)?

And you still haven't answered my question. Does IIFYM address things like nutrient absorption and bio-availability?

IIFYM doesn't compete with paleo. You should start another thread if you have in-depth questions about IIFYM.

So... what I'm saying is, that just because someone says they "eat paleo" does not automatically make them an idiot who blindly follows along with some plan to only eat foods that could be found in cave kitchens. For the most part, it means they have considered a whole lot of what goes into nutrition (more than just calories or macros), self-experimented and continue to educate themselves daily while enjoying a variety of enjoyable foods.

PROS:

It can work well and quickly for weight loss
No need for the hassle of calorie counting
Can help regularise cravings
Can help with digestive discomfort

CONS:

Restrictive food choice
Lack of cake
Can be expensive
Can be hard to implement into day to day life
Did I mention lack of cake?

Agreed. I lost 25 pounds in less than 2 months with Paleo. No carbs, no sugars, no dairy...lots of meat, eggs, and nuts. Be prepared to do a LOT of cooking and prep everyday.

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

If you believe that, then don't eat those foods.

So... then why spend so much time jumping into every paleo thread and saying how silly it is? I'm sure there are foods that you don't eat (for whatever reason)?

And you still haven't answered my question. Does IIFYM address things like nutrient absorption and bio-availability?

IIFYM doesn't compete with paleo. You should start another thread if you have in-depth questions about IIFYM.

Great idea! I'm sure there are threads like that out there already, but they are probably (like this one) full of garbage arguments that I don't have time to read through.

So... what I'm saying is, that just because someone says they "eat paleo" does not automatically make them an idiot who blindly follows along with some plan to only eat foods that could be found in cave kitchens. For the most part, it means they have considered a whole lot of what goes into nutrition (more than just calories or macros), self-experimented and continue to educate themselves daily while enjoying a variety of enjoyable foods.

What I often draw exception to is when people try to push their dietary restrictions on others for bogus reasons. If you want to eat paleo then fine, eat paleo. But don't try to tell other people never to eat black beans or potatoes again because those foods are inherently unhealthy.

I assume that people interested in eating paleo are going research why things like black beans may not be part of a healthy eating plan and make a decision whether or not to eat them based on that. I certainly have never "pushed my dietary restrictions on others."

Just because someone says they eat paleo doesn't mean they're an idiot; nor does it mean they're a very smart person who has carefully considered and studied multiple aspects of nutrition in depth and did a lot of experimenting.

True, but you seem to assume that anyone eating paleo is doing it because they think it's what the caveman did. I'm sure some are, but probably not the majority.

What about nutrient absorption and bio-availability? Some of the "demon foods" are believed to have anti-nutrients that make absorbing the nutrients from your fruits & veggies impossible. Some of the recommended foods are thought to help with nutrient absorption.

If you believe that, then don't eat those foods.

So... then why spend so much time jumping into every paleo thread and saying how silly it is? I'm sure there are foods that you don't eat (for whatever reason)?

And you still haven't answered my question. Does IIFYM address things like nutrient absorption and bio-availability?

IIFYM doesn't compete with paleo. You should start another thread if you have in-depth questions about IIFYM.

Great idea! I'm sure there are threads like that out there already, but they are probably (like this one) full of garbage arguments that I don't have time to read through.

I don't think there's an IIFYM group, but there are a lot of people on the forum very knowledgeable about the practice. It's really simple though. Set nutrition goals that matter to YOU and hit them. Consider any aspects you feel are appropriate.

So paleo is just IIFYM without the counting? :bigsmile:

Paleo is compatible with IIFYM. They are not competing diets. You can do IIFYM and paleo at the same time.