PALEO: pros, cons and whatever else you may think?
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Nobody said that. Ever.It sure is a shame that so many people here are solely interested in picking apart and trying to discredit something that other people find success with.
'You lost weight, cured what you thought were chronic ailments, and are completely happy with this lifestyle? NO U R WRONG EAT UR POPTARTS FFS'0 -
I know, its a parody.Nobody said that. Ever.0 -
i wonder if paleojoe will understand why i told her to leaveI have done the reasearch. None of what you've claimed has merit. You are also confused about how this works. The person making the claim bears the burden of proof. So basically, put up or shut up. Stop trying to play it off. Either you have it or you don't. Simple really and doesn't require lengthy and rambling posts.0 -
I know, its a parody.
Or a straw man.0 -
I don't know but I sure do. She goes on and on as if volume of words makes her opinions true but doesn' t have time to find these phantom studies? Riiiiiight!i wonder if paleojoe will understand why i told her to leave0 -
All I've got to say is Migraines don't always have a food trigger. My husband suffered from bad migraines that kept him out of work several times a month. We tried several medications ( only one worth anything was Maxalt ), getting his eyes examined, removing food etc. Turns out every eye doctor never though to check for astigmatism because he has better then 20/20 vision. Got him glasses for that and problem solved.
Oh yeah, I'm not saying Whole30/paleo is the cure-all, I'm just saying that it can be (and usually is) an eye-opener regarding how food affects us (on an individual basis).0 -
Or a straw man.
nope, because this happened:
paleo did not lead to your weight loss...eating in a caloric deficit did ...
If paleo made you lose weight, then why did you not gain it all back when you stopped paleo?0 -
Thoughtful discussion should always be encouraged.0
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Two words - plant foods.
However you get more and more of them, and less and less meat / dairy / processed foods, the healthier your body will function.
I believe processed foods are far worse for us than eating meat, but I don't believe our ancestors ate meat by choice, they ate meat out of necessity and ingenuity. If going paleo first gets humans off processed foods, it is a great start AND going to make them healthier.
However, I believe the step beyond paleo is weaning off most meat and dairy. Or, at least, limiting it to a much smaller fraction of our current American diet % AND making sure meat food sources are sustainable, ethical, and clean.
There are other reasons to eat less meat than just aiming for better health - just think of all the good karma you can stock up on treating animals ethically and conserving the environment - WHILE treating your body right at the same time. Win / Win / Win!
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Two words - plant foods.
However you get more and more of them, and less and less meat / dairy / processed foods, the healthier your body will function.
I believe processed foods are far worse for us than eating meat, but I don't believe our ancestors ate meat by choice, they ate meat out of necessity and ingenuity. If going paleo first gets humans off processed foods, it is a great start AND going to make them healthier.
However, I believe the step beyond paleo is weaning off most meat and dairy. Or, at least, limiting it to a much smaller fraction of our current American diet % AND making sure meat food sources are sustainable, ethical, and clean.
There are other reasons to eat less meat than just aiming for better health - just think of all the good karma you can stock up on treating animals ethically and conserving the environment - WHILE treating your body right at the same time. Win / Win / Win!
so what evidence do you have that meat is unhealthy? You do realize some of the people with lowest incidence of heart disease are heavy animal product consumers? The French should be a model for the US who consume little processed but high amounts of animal products and alcohol.(French paradox)
Animal protein are optimal for recovery whether it is traumatic or surgical, The reason why is due to the amino acid profile of meat and it being extremely high in essential amino acids, there are also other substances that cannot be taken from plants such as b12.
What makes eating meat unhealthy?0 -
This is just my observation. I find it's too restrictive and hence people who are on this diet tend to yo yo. They have a hard time maintaing weight loss. Just from what I've seen.0
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so what evidence do you have that meat is unhealthy? You do realize some of the people with lowest incidence of heart disease are heavy animal product consumers? The French should be a model for the US who consume little processed but high amounts of animal products and alcohol.(French paradox)
Animal protein are optimal for recovery whether it is traumatic or surgical, The reason why is due to the amino acid profile of meat and it being extremely high in essential amino acids, there are also other substances that cannot be taken from plants such as b12.
What makes eating meat unhealthy?
You took the words right out of my mouth...0 -
So because someone told you the truth they're telling you to eat pop tarts? Cognitive dissonance much?0 -
As for health...I do believe its better for you, I have tons of enegry all the time, I sleep better, infact I tend to require less sleep to feel well rested. And I never get sick when I am eating paleo. My kids and husband will all get something, not me if I am eating paleo. So clearly it does the immune system good, as for mysterious illness that you can't feel, that's the first I've ever heard of that. I highly doubt it seeing how in my experience it seems to boost my immune into superdrive so I doubt their is some werid illness lurking, lol.
I;m sure its not for everyone since everyones body chemistry is different. But for many its the only way to go
As for following a book or actual diet plan, meh... lean meats, veggies, fruit, nuts....pretty self explanatory.
I'm not sure your last sentence really describes the Paleo diet. And while I am happy that you found something that works for you, I think your post would be more correct if it started with "I do believe its better for me". If it was really best for everyone, why in the world would you not be feeding your children a Paleo diet?0 -
I'm not sure your last sentence really describes the Paleo diet. And while I am happy that you found something that works for you, I think your post would be more correct if it started with "I do believe its better for me". If it was really best for everyone, why in the world would you not be feeding your children a Paleo diet?
This is pretty much where I fall in context of a paleo diet. I have no studies to back it up but for me, I just feel better when I stick to a paleo template. Like any other diet it's there for anyone who wants to try it... for whatever reason they want to try it.0 -
Not a study because I don't have time to go finding your research for you, but this discusses some studies so if you're actually interested you'll go read those:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57483789-10391704/
Again, since my only point is that more people today believe they're grain sensitive than, say, 25 years ago, I'm not really sure why you're bothering to argue the point that is basically common knowledge at this point. The huge rise in gluten-free products for example is a pretty good indication that this is becoming more of a priority for people because more people are realizing they're sensitive (and some are just jumping on the fad food bandwagon as well)
I read the article and it somewhat agrees with you. More people today believe they are gluten (not grain) sensitive today than 60 years ago (the comparison is with the 1950's). And more people actually do have celiac disease now than in the 1950's (many undiagnosed). BUT, more people think they have it and don't, than actually have it. It's the popular ailment to have right now.
But it's still < 1% of the US population that is allergic to gluten. More people are allergic to tree nuts than gluten. About 3 times as many people are allergic to shellfish as gluten. This does not make shellfish or tree nuts an "unhealthy food" for anyone without the allergy.
The problem with gluten (and soy) allergies are not that they are more common, it's that gluten and soy are so much harder to avoid since both are widely used as food additives.0 -
I'm not entirely sure whom, but it appears that one of us doesn't fully understand the concepts of a "straw man" argument/logical fallacy.0 -
Exactly.Not a study...
Yet you have time to make endless frivolous posts on an internet chat board. The only reasonable conclusion is that you have no legitimate sources to bring to the table....because I don't have time to go finding your research for you...
Which is fine, most don't. But save us some time and stop pretending otherwise...0 -
I read the article and it somewhat agrees with you. More people today believe they are gluten (not grain) sensitive today than 60 years ago (the comparison is with the 1950's). And more people actually do have celiac disease now than in the 1950's (many undiagnosed). BUT, more people think they have it and don't, than actually have it. It's the popular ailment to have right now.
But it's still < 1% of the US population that is allergic to gluten. More people are allergic to tree nuts than gluten. About 3 times as many people are allergic to shellfish as gluten. This does not make shellfish or tree nuts an "unhealthy food" for anyone without the allergy.
The problem with gluten (and soy) allergies are not that they are more common, it's that gluten and soy are so much harder to avoid since both are widely used as food additives.
Oh it's not because some people have grain/gluten sensitivities that I personally believe grains are a less healthy food; like you say, there are many foods I personally consider pretty healthy that people are sensitive or outright allergic to as well.
The context of that article and my stating that more people today think they have grain sensitivities was simply because someone said it wasn't true, and that less people today have/think they have grain sensitivities than people before today. And that's simply not true. I fully agree that it's a small part of the population that believes/is aware they have these sensitivities.0 -
Oh it's not because some people have grain/gluten sensitivities that I personally believe grains are a less healthy food; like you say, there are many foods I personally consider pretty healthy that people are sensitive or outright allergic to as well.
What are your reasons for thinking grains are a less healthy food? Less heatlhy than what?0 -
"The Paleo Diet: Claims vs. Evidence" by Alan Aragon
http://www.nsca.com/uploadedFiles/NSCA/Inactive_Content/Program_Books/PTC_2013_Program_Book/Aragon.pdf0 -
Agreed Paleojoe, and I don't think children need to follow anything other than eating healthy...(unless they have food senstivities like my daughter has to dairy) Children are growing at a rapid rate (especially their brains) and require so much more in their diet. As adults we have totally different requirements for food compared to a growing child.
I totally agree that children need to eat heatlhy. But that brings me back to the question of why the Paleo Diet excludes healthy foods.0 -
I totally agree that children need to eat heatlhy. But that brings me back to the question of why the Paleo Diet excludes healthy foods.
What "healthy" foods does the paleo diet exclude? What nutrients are missing when one adopts a paleo diet?0 -
So because someone told you the truth they're telling you to eat pop tarts? Cognitive dissonance much?
no, but you see it in pretty much every 'healthy food' thread. The argument that there is no such thing as healthy food, people x and y eat piles of poptarts and still lose weight, etc etc. For some reason poptarts and pizza are the go-to examples. Now, because that guy flat out told me that eating paleo has nothing to do with weight loss, we can see that he is in the cals in/cals out camp. So I refered to poptarts, banking on the likelihood of that guy & other people here making those sort of comments in the past.
Also, I find it really interesting (or maybe frustrating) how you guys ignore everything you don't have an argument against. The majority of my first post was ignored and only the weight loss was mentioned (to argue against). You quote it and say 'because he told you the truth' - again, ignoring the rest of my post and focusing solely on the weight loss aspect. Nobody responded to my subsequent story about how I was 3x more successful eating paleo than everything in moderation. But a couple of you have to jump in and try to discredit a post that was clearly an exaggerated parody of commonly held opinions.
AND while I'm at it, not once have I said that you don't need a caloric deficit. I do not disagree with that. But there is more to health than weightloss. And for lots of people, there are better ways to lose weight than eating 1500 calories of icecream and pizza every day.0 -
I'm not sure which "first post" your talking about but if you mean the one where you, your partner and some friends "feel better" eating paleo, that is what would be called anecdotal evidence. If that's how you want to eat, go right ahead. But that does not make an evidence based case for any health or metabolic superiority for the "paleo diet". Who knows, could just be placebo effect.
no, but you see it in pretty much every 'healthy food' thread. The argument that there is no such thing as healthy food, people x and y eat piles of poptarts and still lose weight, etc etc. For some reason poptarts and pizza are the go-to examples. Now, because that guy flat out told me that eating paleo has nothing to do with weight loss, we can see that he is in the cals in/cals out camp. So I refered to poptarts, banking on the likelihood of that guy & other people here making those sort of comments in the past.
Also, I find it really interesting (or maybe frustrating) how you guys ignore everything you don't have an argument against. The majority of my first post was ignored and only the weight loss was mentioned (to argue against). You quote it and say 'because he told you the truth' - again, ignoring the rest of my post and focusing solely on the weight loss aspect. Nobody responded to my subsequent story about how I was 3x more successful eating paleo than everything in moderation. But a couple of you have to jump in and try to discredit a post that was clearly an exaggerated parody of commonly held opinions.
AND while I'm at it, not once have I said that you don't need a caloric deficit. I do not disagree with that. But there is more to health than weightloss. And for lots of people, there are better ways to lose weight than eating 1500 calories of icecream and pizza every day.
As far as discrediting you, no one really needs to do that. With statements like the one bolded above and the poptarts one, you are doing quite a good job of that yourself.0 -
Nobody responded to my subsequent story about how I was 3x more successful eating paleo than everything in moderation.
Then be happy you found a path that works for you! 0 -
Cool. I don't believe I have attempted to use my own experience as universal evidence, or told anyone they should do things my way. Just said that it works for me & I like it. I've then had people like yourself tell me that I'm wrong and pick fights about it. I could maybe understand this if I were endangering my health in any way, but I don't understand your motivation.I'm not sure which "first post" your talking about but if you mean the one where you, your partner and some friends "feel better" eating paleo, that is what would be called anecdotal evidence. If that's how you want to eat, go right ahead. But that does not make an evidence based case for any health or metabolic superiority for the "paleo diet". Who knows, could just be placebo effect.
As far as discrediting you, no one really needs to do that. With statements like the one bolded above and the poptarts one, you are doing quite a good job of that yourself.
Regarding your second point.. If there is no such thing as healthy or unhealthy food, I don't see how I have discredited myself. I'm sure most people here would say that you would still lose weight eating 1500 cals of icecream every day. Sure its an extreme example, but one I have seen used on this forum numerous times.
thank you, I am! I'm back on it after a long break and I actually really missed it. I ate so much delicious pork belly last night
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thank you, I am! I'm back on it after a long break and I actually really missed it. I ate so much delicious pork belly last night
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Cool. I don't believe I have attempted to use my own experience as universal evidence, or told anyone they should do things my way. Just said that it works for me & I like it. I've then had people like yourself tell me that I'm wrong and pick fights about it. I could maybe understand this if I were endangering my health in any way, but I don't understand your motivation.
Regarding your second point.. If there is no such thing as healthy or unhealthy food, I don't see how I have discredited myself. I'm sure most people here would say that you would still lose weight eating 1500 cals of icecream every day. Sure its an extreme example, but one I have seen used on this forum numerous times.
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Sorry, I seem to have screwed up the quotes and can't figure out how to fix it!0
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