Distance runners: How to work past 90 minutes?
QueenBishOTUniverse
Posts: 14,121 Member
Ok, so I do a long run once a week in addition to HIIT twice a week and strength training 3 times a week. My long run is always after my rest day which is also my "cheat" day so I'm usually coming off a bit of a calorie surplus going in to the run. I've been able to run for 90 minutes non stop since early November but can't seem to break past this time. Doesn't matter if I slow down and just go 5mph the whole time, which is a very easy pace for me, still can't get past 90 minutes. I feel great for the first 80-85 and am sure that this will be the week I get all the way to 2 hours and then BAM, legs and feet are TOAST. They feel like lead and just don't want to move anymore. Cardiovascularly I still feel great, I still have tons of energy, but my legs and feet are just done. So....mental block, muscle energy block, or some sort of overtraining?
If I'm being unreasonable trying to run that much while doing my other workouts I can accept that, but if there is a way to work past this without having to give up my other workouts I would love some tips or advice from those with more experience.
If I'm being unreasonable trying to run that much while doing my other workouts I can accept that, but if there is a way to work past this without having to give up my other workouts I would love some tips or advice from those with more experience.
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That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.0 -
Speaking for myself, I hit an absolute wall at around 80 minutes, unless I'm refuelling along the way. Same symptoms as yours, lungs feel great, but it's like the Motivation Gene just mutated out of ever cell in my lower body.
Even with fuelling, however, I can only stretch it out for another 60 minutes, and then I'm done-done. Body just can't metabolize food fast enough for the per-minute burn of my large-framed body.
Hope that helps!0 -
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Sounds like you need to invest in a running belt to bring along fuels. The feeling of confusion, lead-filled legs...that is called "Hitting the Wall" and it is all too common and usually a result of improper fueling. What are you eating/drinking before/during your run. Energy bars, GU gels, sport beans, are all options.
You can also save energy by bringing in run/walk breaks if needed. Kind of sounds contradictory to run -and- walk, but it does help and a lot of distance runner's Galloway it. That is just an option, as many people prefer just to straight through it.
As for your HIIT...are those also runs? If not then you might be hitting a progression wall as well due to not running enough during the week. Just a possibility.0 -
My HIIT is also running 30 minutes, middle 10 minutes doing sprint work. I have tried working in 5 minute walking breaks, only seems to cause my muscles to tighten up and makes it harder for me to start running again, but doesn't help me run any longer. As for what I'm eating, not anything specific, I usually run a couple hours after my dinner, mostly cause I'm a night owl, especially on weekends which is when I do my long run. I'm averaging 2300-2500 calories a day and try to make sure I have a good balance of all three macros and get plenty of fluids. My diary is open so you're welcome to take a look and offer advice if interested.
For the refueling, do you spread that out throughout the run? How much how often etc? Was thinking this might be the issue given what is happening with my legs, but wasn't sure how to start working this in. I have had some bad experiences in the past involving food *before* running so am a little gun shy on this....0 -
My guess would be you just haven't built up enough of a running base to handle 90+ mins. How many miles are you getting during the week? Your long run shouldn't be more 1/3 of your weekly mileage. Increase what you run during the week and see if that helps.
Personally I got my long run originally up to the 2+ range following a half marathon training plan (I was slow back then, about 13 min miles). Now I can run for 2 or 3 hours on long run day with no issues. I do have breakfast and coffee before heading out too.0 -
That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
lolwut?
op: Do you use any kind of energy gels during your run? that's a long time to run without refueling
Also, perhaps incorporating brief walk periods (Galloway method) could help?0 -
My HIIT is also running 30 minutes, middle 10 minutes doing sprint work. I have tried working in 5 minute walking breaks, only seems to cause my muscles to tighten up and makes it harder for me to start running again, but doesn't help me run any longer. As for what I'm eating, not anything specific, I usually run a couple hours after my dinner, mostly cause I'm a night owl, especially on weekends which is when I do my long run. I'm averaging 2300-2500 calories a day and try to make sure I have a good balance of all three macros and get plenty of fluids. My diary is open so you're welcome to take a look and offer advice if interested.
For the refueling, do you spread that out throughout the run? How much how often etc? Was thinking this might be the issue given what is happening with my legs, but wasn't sure how to start working this in. I have had some bad experiences in the past involving food *before* running so am a little gun shy on this....
I like the gatorade prime chews. Easy to carry and taste like candy. I'll eat my first package at about 45 mins, and then one pack every half hour or so. They're 100 calories of carbs per pack. They've never made me cramp or feel nauseated which I've experienced with other foods.0 -
sorry this post is just full of rubbish I won't spend time pointing out the specifics but ignore it.That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
Just run slow once you get the distance you can the build on your speed.0 -
sorry this post is just full of rubbish I won't spend time pointing out the specifics but ignore it.That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
Just run slow once you get the distance you can the build on your speed.
Educate me, I love learning. Please inform me on all of the average people running 90+ minutes without a break. The OP said running slowly doesn't work. The OP isn't talking about distance or speed, but time. Read the post before you come in here with your, "I know everything, but I won't share any of it" attitude.0 -
leave your watch in your pocket. don't look at it at all.
also, instead of going on your rest and cheat day, try not going over in surplus in calories the day before. sure, rest your legs, but stay around your calorie goals. a little over is okay. maybe the excess food is making you sluggish.0 -
For the refueling, do you spread that out throughout the run? How much how often etc? Was thinking this might be the issue given what is happening with my legs, but wasn't sure how to start working this in. I have had some bad experiences in the past involving food *before* running so am a little gun shy on this....
on my long cardio days, i'll have a piece of toast and peanut butter about 15-20 minutes before i head out. then i have a gel pack about every 45-60 minutes. pick up a few of the different brands, but i have found that i like the Cliff ones the best. they have the consitancy of cake frosting and are delicious.
if you think that a gel might not be right for you, you can try the jelly bean type fuel, or the gummi ones.0 -
That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
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That's ridiculous. I have been a runner for 6 years and I routinely used to run up to 2 hours on my long run. And I didn't make running my life.0 -
For the refueling, do you spread that out throughout the run? How much how often etc? Was thinking this might be the issue given what is happening with my legs, but wasn't sure how to start working this in. I have had some bad experiences in the past involving food *before* running so am a little gun shy on this....
This you will just have to play with and see what works for you. Everyone is different. I usually carb shot every 45 minutes. So that might mean I take several, or only one...all depends on how long I go out for. I will usually start the run with a carb shot as well. I always bring water with me and drink water while taking the carb shot. I haven't hit the mark where I need to start bringing drinks with me, along side the water, but I will be crossing that line here soon.
As far as what to use, just try some. If you are worried about GI issues then I would maybe work your run around some place where you could use the bathroom if needed. That is what I do when I try new carb shots.0 -
Sounds like you need to invest in a running belt to bring along fuels. The feeling of confusion, lead-filled legs...that is called "Hitting the Wall" and it is all too common and usually a result of improper fueling. What are you eating/drinking before/during your run. Energy bars, GU gels, sport beans, are all options.
You can also save energy by bringing in run/walk breaks if needed. Kind of sounds contradictory to run -and- walk, but it does help and a lot of distance runner's Galloway it. That is just an option, as many people prefer just to straight through it.
As for your HIIT...are those also runs? If not then you might be hitting a progression wall as well due to not running enough during the week. Just a possibility.
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This0 -
That's ridiculous. I have been a runner for 6 years and I routinely used to run up to 2 hours on my long run. And I didn't make running my life.
You are in the fraction of a percent of people who can do it. I'd say that counts as making running your life. I bet you're 100% dedicated to it, right? It seems the OP is spending most of their time and energy on HIIT.0 -
I believe from what I've read that glycogen runs out after 90 mins. If you are running for periods above lactate threshold you are going to have to fuel as you go with gels etc.
If you stay within certain heart rate zones (1-3) you can train the body to use more fat as fuel and expand your aerobic capacity,. Do you use a HRM and zones? It's very nerdy and interesting but the answer lies there I'm sure.
I am currently doing this, so carb consumption is lower on the list right now. Come February leading up to my triathlons I'm going to be burning away in my upper zones again. Can't wait! Talk about being high as a kite! My muscular, cardiovascular aerobic and anaerobic endurance should be well built by then. I am following a periodization plan (step like builds and rests in 3-5 week chunks getting more intense nearer races) - Joe Friel. It's my second year of running. God there's so much info out there.
Haha to the suggestion normal people don't run long distance. What have hunter gatherers been doing for 1000s of years? Even all the mums and pathetic celebrity's in my area run marathons for breakfast. Agree on watching the joints though. You don't want to be at all overweight doing all this shizzle.0 -
sorry this post is just full of rubbish I won't spend time pointing out the specifics but ignore it.That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
Just run slow once you get the distance you can the build on your speed.
Educate me, I love learning. Please inform me on all of the average people running 90+ minutes without a break. The OP said running slowly doesn't work. The OP isn't talking about distance or speed, but time. Read the post before you come in here with your, "I know everything, but I won't share any of it" attitude.
I'm average. Maybe even below average. I had to work very hard, harder than a lot of people I know to get to run 2+ hour long runs (no walking). I average 25 mpw if I'm lucky, usually more like 20, because I have so many other things I have to do with my time. And I do other exercise as well.0 -
sorry this post is just full of rubbish I won't spend time pointing out the specifics but ignore it.That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
Just run slow once you get the distance you can the build on your speed.
Educate me, I love learning. Please inform me on all of the average people running 90+ minutes without a break. The OP said running slowly doesn't work. The OP isn't talking about distance or speed, but time. Read the post before you come in here with your, "I know everything, but I won't share any of it" attitude.
<<<Average person who runs 2+ hours on long run days with out a break.
The OP is talking about hitting a wall during running, which is a fueling issue not a dedication issue.0 -
My HIIT is also running 30 minutes, middle 10 minutes doing sprint work. I have tried working in 5 minute walking breaks, only seems to cause my muscles to tighten up and makes it harder for me to start running again, but doesn't help me run any longer. As for what I'm eating, not anything specific, I usually run a couple hours after my dinner, mostly cause I'm a night owl, especially on weekends which is when I do my long run. I'm averaging 2300-2500 calories a day and try to make sure I have a good balance of all three macros and get plenty of fluids. My diary is open so you're welcome to take a look and offer advice if interested.
For the refueling, do you spread that out throughout the run? How much how often etc? Was thinking this might be the issue given what is happening with my legs, but wasn't sure how to start working this in. I have had some bad experiences in the past involving food *before* running so am a little gun shy on this....
You'll have to experiment with mid-run fueling to see what works for you. The gels, jelly beans, and chews recommend consuming one packet about every 45 minutes during exercise. They are pretty easy to tear open and eat while on the move. I usually don't use them unless I'm running longer than six miles.
Another thing to remember is hydration during a long run. It's easy to drink during a road race with water points every mile or so along the way. During individual runs it's up to you to carry your drinks or arrange for somebody to help out during the run. A handheld bottle, hydration belt, or camelbak comes in handy.0 -
That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you.
Huh?0 -
sorry this post is just full of rubbish I won't spend time pointing out the specifics but ignore it.That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
Just run slow once you get the distance you can the build on your speed.
Educate me, I love learning. Please inform me on all of the average people running 90+ minutes without a break. The OP said running slowly doesn't work. The OP isn't talking about distance or speed, but time. Read the post before you come in here with your, "I know everything, but I won't share any of it" attitude.
<<<Average person who runs 2+ hours on long run days with out a break.
The OP is talking about hitting a wall during running, which is a fueling issue not a dedication issue.
Seems like a dedication issue to me, because the OP seems mostly dedicated to high intensity interval training. The long runs only come on rest days, so mentally the OP is in "rest mode." I've done miles and miles and a 2+ hour run before. It is a mental drain on us people who don't train for it.0 -
That's ridiculous. I have been a runner for 6 years and I routinely used to run up to 2 hours on my long run. And I didn't make running my life.
You are in the fraction of a percent of people who can do it. I'd say that counts as making running your life. I bet you're 100% dedicated to it, right? It seems the OP is spending most of their time and energy on HIIT.
And you are a prime example of why non-runners should not comment on runner threads, because you have no idea of anythign you are talking about. Time and distance pretty much go hand in hand. For some if might be time, others it might be distance where the wall hits...but for a runner it is never about dedication.0 -
That is a long time to be running.Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
Wrong, wrong, wrong...........
There is no evidence that running is bad for your knees (barring a pre-exisiting problem) in fact several studies have suggested that the opposite is true ie runners suffer lower rates of arthritis.
To the OP - try focusing on a distance goal rather than a time.0 -
Seems like a dedication issue to me, because the OP seems mostly dedicated to high intensity interval training. The long runs only come on rest days, so mentally the OP is in "rest mode." I've done miles and miles and a 2+ hour run before. It is a mental drain on us people who don't train for it.
her long runs come after a rest/cheat day.0 -
I would definitely throw in some kind of fuel during your run. Usually on my long slow runs, that are going 90 minutes or more, I usual use gummy squares or I will add something to my water. I am not a fan of Gatorade. It make me queasy. Gu is okay, but I am not fond of the texture. There are energy beans which aren't bad. If you want to go a more natural route, you can take a banana with you.
Do you run HIIT on your long runs? That could be part of your problem. When I am trying to build up my mileage for half marathons, I make sure my long slow runs are about 30-45 seconds slower than my usual pace. That way I build up endurance to go the distance. You will get there.0 -
OP, can you please list your weekly training schedule?0
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sorry this post is just full of rubbish I won't spend time pointing out the specifics but ignore it.That is a long time to be running. Bad for your knees, bad for your muscles, maybe slightly good for your heart. It is up to you if you want to run that long, I suppose.
It is probably in your head. Very few modern people are mentally capable of running that long since it isn't a life or death situation. You aren't chasing down food and you aren't running from a predator (there are no other mammals in the world that can run as long as humans without needing a break.) Since the goal is only to finish the run, you have less of a primal drive pushing you. Only the people who make running their life can go into the 2+ hour range I'd say. If you aren't 100% dedicated, then it just won't happen. No shame in that, though.
Just run slow once you get the distance you can the build on your speed.
Educate me, I love learning. Please inform me on all of the average people running 90+ minutes without a break. The OP said running slowly doesn't work. The OP isn't talking about distance or speed, but time. Read the post before you come in here with your, "I know everything, but I won't share any of it" attitude.
Fat, Middle aged, professional women, with a busy life, and a love of heavy weights. Below average!
My longest continuous run is 3 hours.
Educated?0 -
Seems like a dedication issue to me, because the OP seems mostly dedicated to high intensity interval training. The long runs only come on rest days, so mentally the OP is in "rest mode." I've done miles and miles and a 2+ hour run before. It is a mental drain on us people who don't train for it.
her long runs come after a rest/cheat day.
So she is coming off a rest day going into a 2 hour run while spending most of her time training for HIIT. That seems like a mental and commitment issue to me. Her mind just isn't prepared for it when she is dedicated to something else.0
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