what to do about kid failing
Grimmerick
Posts: 3,342 Member
in Chit-Chat
My stepson is 17 and taking algebra, he is absolutely failing miserably his highest grade was a 76 and that was a friggin homework grade. He came to live with us in August of last year and didn't have good influences or study habits where he was, he does ok in his other classes. He just can't seem to get his crap together in this algebra class, I have him tutoring Saturdays and staying after Mondays. I have been nice, mean, strict, lenient and now I feel like I just don't care anymore because I feel like he isn't TRULY putting in the effort. He turns in all of his assignments but he even fails the homework, I asked how he failed homework since he had time to check his answers to make sure he was doing it right. He acted like he didn't know how to check his answers which I know he does because I showed him how and by now should be friggin common sense. Also he can probably plug any problem into search on his tablet and get a step by step answer, he is just lazy and not using his brain. I am not sure what he hopes to accomplish by failing this class considering his butt is going to go to summer school or get held back. Either way he HAS to pass this class and I have told him this. I am at my wits end, what do I do? I've kinda just stopped caring because he's gotta grow up sometime and realize some things just don't go away. Part of me wants to just let this happen and him just learn the hard way. But does anyone have any ideas before I do this or is it just better to let him learn this life lesson on his own?
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Replies
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Maye he's just not good at algebra.
I completely and totally suck at math. When I was growing up I had all the help in the world -- mind you this was pre-internet where you can look stuff up -- my father, who is an accountant, helped me. I stayed after class for extra work, I had friends who were better at math help me and I just could not get it.
I still can't. I can't even do simple math in my head! :blushing:0 -
Dont give up on him just yet. Why not continue to work with him and possibly try another tutor?0
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I am ok with him not being great at math, but he still needs to at least pass, which I know he can at least do that. Everybody else has to.0
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My English teacher used to tell students "you have a right to pass, and you also have a right to fail." If he is choosing to fail, then it's his choice, and his business. I know you want what's best for your son, but he has to want it too or nothing you do will matter. Let him know that if he needs help, you are available, and make yourself available if he comes to you for help. If he doesn't, let him fail and learn that being lazy makes you work twice as hard in the end. If you can't get through to him, perhaps having to spend some of his vacation in summer school will.0
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*Failed Algebra Crew*0
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Dont give up on him just yet. Why not continue to work with him and possibly try another tutor?
I feel like it isn't the tutor, I feel like it is him. I have seen him understand and do problems and he does ok. But I feel like he only works to understand the problems that come easily to him and refuses to put in the effort to understand the ones he doesn't get right away, no matter what I say or do to help him.0 -
People who suck at math just don't understand it... He may just have the wrong teacher/tutor for him... or like you have speculated maybe he just didn't want to be good at it and understand it... if that's the case, then just let him fail at it. He is a big boy now... he needs to learn from his mistakes.
ETA: FTR, one of my brothers utterly sucked at math and didn't study either until he found an application to it that he could "see"... for my brother it was electrical and HVAC work.0 -
I am going through the exact same thing as you except my son is 15. He is "LAZY". So, I took away his TV / XBOX, so when he comes home and goes to his room, there is NOTHING he can do BUT homework! (He wasn't doing it at all). He did tell me he doesn't understand it at all so I called the school and requested he get tested for an IEP. This way, if he passes the IEP, I know my son is just being lazy and I'll give up. If he fails the IEP, then he'll get the help he needs.
His coach told him he cannot come to practice until he gets 30 mins min of extra help each day with a note from the teacher saying that he did get the xtra help.
This just started on Monday. So I'll wait until he gets tested in 6 weeks (it's a long process before he can get tested)... if it turns out he passes this IEP, then I'll tell him he's gonna fail in life... oh well. TOUGH LOVE0 -
Bribery... some people might not agree but an incentive to work towards a goal isn't a terrible idea. Money, a new video game, the new shoes all the kids are wearing.
OR...
Take something away until his grades are up. Oh- I'm sorry, you want to watch tv? Too bad- go in your room and study. Take his door off, no privacy... He is living in your house and the only thing you need to provide to him is a roof and food. Privacy is a privilege that needs to be earned. His job as a student is to pass his classes.
Is he sports motivated? No playing on the team until his grades are better.
Try to find what makes him happy and take it away. Might sound mean but that should give him the motivation.0 -
Never give up on kids. Their goal is to get you off their back. They succeed by wearing you down. If you keep at it, they will eventually realize that you're not giving up and they will change the behavior if they can. Algebra is hard for some people and they never get it, so that may be the problem.
Try a different tutor and / or talk to the teacher about any suggestions they might have. Have him do the homework then check it with him (don't check it yourself, make him part of the process). When he sees that you are relentless, he may try harder just to get you off his back.0 -
Maye he's just not good at algebra.
I completely and totally suck at math. When I was growing up I had all the help in the world -- mind you this was pre-internet where you can look stuff up -- my father, who is an accountant, helped me. I stayed after class for extra work, I had friends who were better at math help me and I just could not get it.
I still can't. I can't even do simple math in my head! :blushing:
^^^^ this is good advice. If he's doing well in other subjects, and he's doing the work in algebra but still can't do it, then maybe he isn't good at maths!
also look up dyscalculia, it's similar to dyslexia but involves cognitive deficits to do with number and arithmetic (it's related to dyslexia and someone could have one of them and not the other, or both of them). not saying he has that (impossible to say with just the info in your OP), but it's something you need to look into. I have dyslexia, it was never diagnosed when I was at school, I really struggled with reading comprehension and writing essays at school, but because I was top of the class in maths and extremely good at science, no-one believed me that i actually had difficulty and was constantly told I was lazy and berated over it, when I was working my *kitten* off. I was told all the things that were wrong with my essays and other work in English - and in science that I was getting Bs not As because my answers to essay questions were bad or I misread exam questions sometimes, when teachers knew that I could give much better answers orally..... I can see how that looks like someone who's bright but lazy..... but a kid who's bright but struggling in one specific area of the curriculum may have a specific learning disability e.g. dyscalculia. They don't affect intelligence, i.e. people with them could be anywhere on the ability range and bright kids with learning disabilities are the most likely to end up not getting the help they need, because their ability masks the disability, and teachers and parents are often not aware of how hard they're working just to try and keep up in that area. It's extremely frustrating and depressing to go through that as a child when you don't even understand yourself why you find it so hard and why everyone else seems to be able to do it easily when you can't.
So as to your question what he hopes to achieve by failing algebra.... kids who turn in all their assignments are not choosing to fail. Maybe they're genuinely struggling. The ones who choose to fail do no work at all, or just skip school altogether.0 -
I was a smart kid (and adult, workin on my masters!) But algebra was and still is AWFUL! I am just math stupid. I took algebra, needed tutors and BARELY passed, my mom made me take it a second time, and I flat out failed it. Maybe he is putting in the effort and just isn't getting it.
Talk to him, see where he's at! It sounds like you're doing all the right things, but maybe he needs something different!0 -
*Failed Algebra Crew*
If math was muscles you would have passed with flying colors
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*Failed Algebra Crew*
If math was muscles you would have passed with flying colors
ya i quit math, started lifting the same year.0 -
^^ThisMy English teacher used to tell students "you have a right to pass, and you also have a right to fail." If he is choosing to fail, then it's his choice, and his business. I know you want what's best for your son, but he has to want it too or nothing you do will matter. Let him know that if he needs help, you are available, and make yourself available if he comes to you for help. If he doesn't, let him fail and learn that being lazy makes you work twice as hard in the end. If you can't get through to him, perhaps having to spend some of his vacation in summer school will.
You have provided him with the tools he needs, you have shown him you are there for him - now it's got to be on him. Sometimes you have to work extra hard, and not give up. . .and sometimes you need to work even harder and not give up. Kids need to learn this, and sometimes allowing them to fail is a lesson they need to learn. My teenager didn't think a teacher would actually fail him - he's briliant and really thought that because he was smart they would pass him anyway. They didn't. He learned that even if its hard, and if he doesn't understand, then HE needs to ask for help and keep trying, because we are all here for him.0 -
Have you tried talking to him? Maybe there's a problem there that you don't know about? If he's part of finding a solution it will work better.0
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Took me 3 tries to pass college algebra, maybe he's just not a math person.0
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Just_Jennie and I have one thing in common - algebra is not now nor ever will be our subject.
I was the same age as your son, in high school, about to flunk algebra and not graduate. Had to pass in order to graduate. Luckily I had a girlfriend who understood that gibberish and could communicate it to me. I passed with a D-. Dad and brothers were whizzes at math. Dad was not pleased. Geometry was a breeze; algebra was a nightmare. And from my recollection of algebra, it isn't just having the answer that counts on the homework or test. It's all about how you arrived at the answer, so knowing where the answer is at in the back of the book doesn't always do you that much good.
Fast forward 10 years and I'm now in college (spent some time in the service between then and then). I am finding that without all the distractions of being 17 and in high school in the 70s, I can focus better, study better and knock down some outstanding grades (3.762 GPA for the 2 years). I figure with this, I can go back and try algebra and be better at it this time around.
Did not work out that way. I spent 8 hours on the first homework assignment and still only had it 1/2 done.
The moral of the story is that algebra ain't everyone's cup of tea. The really funny part about it is that I can't think of a time since when I've ever, EVER used it (went into police work where algebra isn't at the top of the skills list). I know now from almost 60 years of personal experience that I just don't deal well with the abstracts. I deal real well with the concrete, tangible stuff. Geometry (shapes), physics and the like I can rock.
Now, to be honest, I don't read anywhere in your post where you've asked him where the problem lies. Maybe he just doesn't grasp the more abstract concepts of algebra. It is probably more embarrassing to him than it is for you. Might be some other underlying issues at work here. I also catch a bit of a hint that this is having way too much of an impact on you, meaning that you're looking at this as something you have to make sure he succeeds at for some reason. Learning how to handle failure is even more important than learning how to handle success.
If I were in your shoes, I'd take a lot of deep breaths, then check with a guidance counselor to see if there is some other class that could be substituted for this math credit. I dropped my college algebra for astronomy. Consider testing to see if there is a learning impediment there. There is a host of things you could be considering...and probably better places for such an inquiry than a fitness/dieting forum.0 -
Sign him up for Khan Academy (free online classes, mainly math) instead of tutoring him. It was recommended for my 8 year old son. They explain math in a different way that just "clicks". And this is from me, an accountant in real life and someone who was fairly good in science and math during my long ago high school years. My son is very achievement oriented so their badge system works for him.
Regulate use of tablet (only for school/homework) since you're going to have to keep an eye on him. Take away phone, and anything else that gives him entertainment. Explain as he does the work and achieves the grade (a passing grade) that he'll get things back.
Otherwise, let him fail, make him go to summer school. That also is a wake up call, spending your summer in school rather than out enjoying the break.0 -
Alright... First off - I don't think you should deter him more by calling him (or alluding to the fact that you think he is) lazy. If he's passing his other courses, then it doesn't sound like that's the issue.
I just want to put a perspective on the matter... I think I'm a fairly intelligent and motivated person; however, I was taking this course and just could not for the life of me wrap my mind around one of the chapters in my last class - because of this I kept procrastinating because I didn't want to face the thought of feeling so incompetent. I procrastinated to the point where I basically did 80% of the course in 3 days (a course that should have taken about 2 months). As a 28-year-old I don't have parents pushing me so I had to realize on my own why I needed to do this. The only reason why I was even able to get through those 3 days was knowing if I didn't pass the upcoming exam, I'd have to redo everything I just did (including the difficult parts) all over again. PS... I ended up with an 86% once I pushed through the one chapter...
Basically... My suggestion? Acknowledge the fact that it's difficult,adjusting to a new environment is also difficult and that that is demotivating, but remind him that it needs to be done or he'll have to attend summer school and do it all over again or whatever else he'll have to do to make up for the course if he doesn't pass this time around.0 -
Let him fail. You can't do the work for him and this is causing you much stress. Maybe learning the lesson the hard way is the answer. I have been there.
I also have a stepson. He failed 7th grade, 8th grade and was failing 9th grade when he dropped out (with his mother's permission). He enrolled in an "online" school to get past the requirements of having to be in school until he was 16. I put "online" in quotes in this case because this particularly online school was not accredited. I know there are some good ones out there and a viable option for some kids under some circumstances but this one was not. Anyway, to make a long story short, my stepson is now 19 and has come to the realization that he screwed up, with his mother's help. 9 months ago, he got his GED and enrolled in airplane mechanic school and is doing *really* well. He even APOLOGIZED to his father and me for not realizing we were only trying to help him when we were pushing him about doing his homework and going to school and being downright rotten to us.0 -
When I ask him how he feels like he is doing or did on a quiz or test, he ALWAYS says he feels like he did well. Then he always has failed it. I ask him what is wrong and he says he just doesnt' understand it, but before a test he tells me he feels confident that he will do well. He has done this everytime. I have even sat with him while he was doing homework to help and he did pretty well then still failed the test miserably or quiz miserably. So he tells me he understands it and then fails. Tutors Saturday, Monday stays after with the math teacher.0
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My stepson is 17 and taking algebra, he is absolutely failing miserably his highest grade was a 76 and that was a friggin homework grade. He came to live with us in August of last year and didn't have good influences or study habits where he was, he does ok in his other classes. He just can't seem to get his crap together in this algebra class, I have him tutoring Saturdays and staying after Mondays. I have been nice, mean, strict, lenient and now I feel like I just don't care anymore because I feel like he isn't TRULY putting in the effort. He turns in all of his assignments but he even fails the homework, I asked how he failed homework since he had time to check his answers to make sure he was doing it right. He acted like he didn't know how to check his answers which I know he does because I showed him how and by now should be friggin common sense. Also he can probably plug any problem into search on his tablet and get a step by step answer, he is just lazy and not using his brain. I am not sure what he hopes to accomplish by failing this class considering his butt is going to go to summer school or get held back. Either way he HAS to pass this class and I have told him this. I am at my wits end, what do I do? I've kinda just stopped caring because he's gotta grow up sometime and realize some things just don't go away. Part of me wants to just let this happen and him just learn the hard way. But does anyone have any ideas before I do this or is it just better to let him learn this life lesson on his own?
Whos helping him and checking the homework?
Hes not failing. YOU ARE
ETA: Most reasonable parents that put an effort toward their kids schooling will go over their homework WITH them (not do it for them) and help check to ensure they are understanding whats going on and help check to make sure the answers are right. It doesnt do anyone good if they come home, think they are doing it right, then go back to school with everything done completely wrong.
So if you arent willing to put forth an effort why should the kid? You are the adult and clearly not setting an example. And by quitting? What kind of message does that send? Im glad you arent my parent.
Send the kid to my house, Ill help him.0 -
What does his father say? I understand his father might not have been the custodial parent in the past but I assume he's been in his son's life from Day 1. Maybe he has some insight? I hate to sound rude since you were just giving us the rundown in a quick post but it seems like it's just you and the 17 yr old...what is his father's involvement? That may be part of the solution.
Good luck with this.0 -
If my parents felt like my failure was a result of lack of effort and not a learning disability, a really terrible teacher, or some other extenuating circumstance, they would've let me fail and forced me to deal with the consequences.0
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Alright... First off - I don't think you should deter him more by calling him (or alluding to the fact that you think he is) lazy. If he's passing his other courses, then it doesn't sound like that's the issue.
I just want to put a perspective on the matter... I think I'm a fairly intelligent and motivated person; however, I was taking this course and just could not for the life of me wrap my mind around one of the chapters in my last class - because of this I kept procrastinating because I didn't want to face the thought of feeling so incompetent. I procrastinated to the point where I basically did 80% of the course in 3 days (a course that should have taken about 2 months). As a 28-year-old I don't have parents pushing me so I had to realize on my own why I needed to do this. The only reason why I was even able to get through those 3 days was knowing if I didn't pass the upcoming exam, I'd have to redo everything I just did (including the difficult parts) all over again. PS... I ended up with an 86% once I pushed through the one chapter...
Basically... My suggestion? Acknowledge the fact that it's difficult,adjusting to a new environment is also difficult and that that is demotivating, but remind him that it needs to be done or he'll have to attend summer school and do it all over again or whatever else he'll have to do to make up for the course if he doesn't pass this time around.
Just gotta be clear on this. I would NEVER call him lazy or treat him that way. He is passing his other classes but not with flying colors. The easy classes he has a's and b's in. History is a C and he has missing assignments that are IN class assignments, because she doesnt' give homework. How do you not complete and turn in an in class assignment? Anywho thank you for your advice and I have actually already done your suggestion, I try to be as real with him as I can. Sucks I am only 30 and don't have any kids of my own so I only have my own experience.0 -
If my parents felt like my failure was a result of lack of effort and not a learning disability, a really terrible teacher, or some other extenuating circumstance, they would've let me fail and forced me to deal with the consequences.
I am positive he doesn't have a learning disability I have already looked into this.0 -
I am going through the exact same thing as you except my son is 15. He is "LAZY". So, I took away his TV / XBOX, so when he comes home and goes to his room, there is NOTHING he can do BUT homework! (He wasn't doing it at all). He did tell me he doesn't understand it at all so I called the school and requested he get tested for an IEP. This way, if he passes the IEP, I know my son is just being lazy and I'll give up. If he fails the IEP, then he'll get the help he needs.
His coach told him he cannot come to practice until he gets 30 mins min of extra help each day with a note from the teacher saying that he did get the xtra help.
This just started on Monday. So I'll wait until he gets tested in 6 weeks (it's a long process before he can get tested)... if it turns out he passes this IEP, then I'll tell him he's gonna fail in life... oh well. TOUGH LOVE
Ok. I am a special education teacher....you CANNOT pass or fail an IEP. You complete a comprehensive assessment. IF he has a learning disability-which he very well could-I hope you apologize for calling him lazy. Students with learning disabilities have average IQ or intellect, but their brains process things differently than yours or mine...so while he may be 'smart' his brain cannot figure out math the way other kids his age would.
Oh, and another tidbit...if you want to expedite the process, you could ask that they complete the evaluation concurrent to the interventions. They may or may not do it, but it's worth a shot.0 -
My stepson is 17 and taking algebra, he is absolutely failing miserably his highest grade was a 76 and that was a friggin homework grade. He came to live with us in August of last year and didn't have good influences or study habits where he was, he does ok in his other classes. He just can't seem to get his crap together in this algebra class, I have him tutoring Saturdays and staying after Mondays. I have been nice, mean, strict, lenient and now I feel like I just don't care anymore because I feel like he isn't TRULY putting in the effort. He turns in all of his assignments but he even fails the homework, I asked how he failed homework since he had time to check his answers to make sure he was doing it right. He acted like he didn't know how to check his answers which I know he does because I showed him how and by now should be friggin common sense. Also he can probably plug any problem into search on his tablet and get a step by step answer, he is just lazy and not using his brain. I am not sure what he hopes to accomplish by failing this class considering his butt is going to go to summer school or get held back. Either way he HAS to pass this class and I have told him this. I am at my wits end, what do I do? I've kinda just stopped caring because he's gotta grow up sometime and realize some things just don't go away. Part of me wants to just let this happen and him just learn the hard way. But does anyone have any ideas before I do this or is it just better to let him learn this life lesson on his own?
Whos helping him and checking the homework?
Hes not failing. YOU ARE
ETA: Most reasonable parents that put an effort toward their kids schooling will go over their homework WITH them (not do it for them) and help check to ensure they are understanding whats going on and help check to make sure the answers are right. It doesnt do anyone good if they come home, think they are doing it right, then go back to school with everything done completely wrong.
So if you arent willing to put forth an effort why should the kid? You are the adult and clearly not setting an example. And by quitting? What kind of message does that send? Im glad you arent my parent.
Send the kid to my house, Ill help him.
He's 17 freaking years old, not 12. He's already getting tutoring and extra help. She's clearly checking in with him on a very regular basis, and he just lies to her. At some point, kids have to take responsibility for the learning process. You can't force-feed knowledge to people.0 -
If my parents felt like my failure was a result of lack of effort and not a learning disability, a really terrible teacher, or some other extenuating circumstance, they would've let me fail and forced me to deal with the consequences.
From what the OP said it doesn't sound like it's a lack of effort. He's getting extra help after class and is also being tutored.0
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