Understanding obesity rather than weight loss
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JECole2013
Posts: 65 Member
I've been doing a lot of reading about the medical approach to obesity, rather than the diet approach to weight loss. It has been eye-opening. I've been dieting in one way or another for 35 years or so and I thought I knew everything there was to know about the subject.
I've been on Atkins, Scarsdale, low-fat, high-protein, low carbs, high carbs, veggie, Sugar-busters, Weight-watchers, Jenny Craig, Nutri-systems, those hormone drops, and on and on .. just to name a few. I've lost some weight with just about all of them.
It wasn't until Gastric Bypass that I really lost weight and truly got my obesity under control.
But, I really didn't understand what is now called a disease ... obesity.
According to the AMA, obesity is a metabolic and hormonal disease that causes weight gain and high BMI ... so far, but there is likely more study to come. And there was apparently a lot of debate about calling it a disease because of a patient's behavior or choice in the matter to become overweight.
Dieting away restricted foods, such as the diets listed above do, isn't the most effective way to treat this disease. In fact, it is best, they say, not to restrict any foods. Our body needs fats, carbs and protein to function well. It also needs that fuel throughout the day, so skipping meals isn't advised either.
But, as I read more about this "disease", I think there is a component missing ... addiction.
Food addictions, and I bet that those almost all fall under the category of sugar addition, I think needs to be part of the equation.
Because, the advice "don't cut out any foods" to loose weight just doesnt seem like good advice anymore in this day and age with so much junk food out there.
We have so much "food" for cheap sale. Obesity treatment and management means facing some hard truths, that those of us with this disease should never say ... drink a soda or eat a bowl of ice cream. Those low nutritious, high sugar foods can a deadly food addition trip.
I read a lot here on MFP that in order to be success at this, we need to "cheat" now and again or allow ourselves a piece of cake from time to time or we are setting ourselves up to fail. I've been pondering this and wonder if it is not the other way around.
A recent study of thousands of people who dieted their way out of obesity and have maintained a normal weight for more than 5 years showed there were several common habits of these successful people, and one was that they never cheated.
I had gastric bypass 14 years ago and I almost never ate sugar for years after that because it would make me physically sick. I passed on birthday cakes, including my own, Christmas goodies, halloween candy and so on year after year. But as my body adjusted to the new digestive system, I began to tolerate sugar and I thought, incorrectly as it turned out, without harm. Over the last year, I was really craving food, almost all the time, and I was adding more calories to my diet as a result ... and before I knew it, 40 some pounds to my body.
Of course I knew I was gaining. I went up two sizes. But, as typical of my behavior when gaining, stayed off the scale.
I struggled at the end of every day to avoid anything sweet, but it got the better of me every night. Then I would crave salt. Then sugar again. I thought I was OK because in the old days, the days before surgery, I would eat a bag of potato chips, and now I ate just a bowl, or a full candy bar, now just a piece, may two or three... ummm, denial.
As I said, I've been thinking and writing a lot about this lately. It is all well and good to tell someone to cut calories, exercise more, add more nutrition, but if you are battling the addition, its feels impossible, hopeless and depressing. Not a recipe for good health.
For me, the appetite suppressant that my doctor prescribed stopped the additions immediately, the very next day I was off sugar, no cravings and eating much less calories. That told me that I wasn't "emotionally" eating or eating out of habit. I was eating because my body/mind was telling me to eat. And trying to rely solely on will-power wasn't working for me.
The very next day, I began food journaling for the first time in years.
I was still operating under the notion that all that "dieting behavior" such as journaling, forcing myself to eat at times that I didn't want to (like breakfast) and reading about food was over whelming.
Today, a month after I began this, I feel that all that "dieting behavior" is important for me in the treatment of my disease.
1. Calorie intact is very hard to gage and for years I thought I was eating the right amount for me but I wasn't. So I must keep track, measure, journal. If I get this wrong, I'm risking my life.
2. Breakfast is important for me so that I load nutrients into my engine. I'm not very hungry in the morning, but it doesn't matter. Before the meds, I didn't want to ruin the only time in the day that I didn't feel hungry with food! Now, that is no longer precious time for me because I don't crave food anymore.
3. I have to make sure all the food I eat, has nutritional value. That isn't easy, but it is easier if I eat real food and not processed. I have been making my own food and freezing them so I don't have to rely on pre made meals, etc.
4. I have to exercise, but I need to ease into it so I don't pull a muscle or push my lazy heart. The goal is to eventually get to every day, 30 minutes.
5. Drink lots and lots of water.
6. Get plenty of good sleep.
And, I will have to do this the rest of my life and since I don't want to be on appetite suppressants for the rest of my life, I need to avoid foods that trigger my addition. That means I don't plan to "cheat" on birthday cake or Christmas cookies n the future. It doesn't seem worth it and I don't think that depriving myself of that will make me fall off the wagon. I don't feel emotionally bad that I can't eat refined sugar any more than I believe a diabetic feels bad about the foods they shouldn't eat. I accept that these are the cards I was dealt. I'm not one of those other people here on MFP who are looking to get buff from their already svelte figures. I mean no disrespect, but their journey isn't mine. I'm here to try to put my medical condition into remission and keep it there for life. Their advice doesn't often apply. So I will leave the advice about cheating and sugar to the folks on a different path and I am going to work to stay away from the stuff and try to get healthy for life.
I've been on Atkins, Scarsdale, low-fat, high-protein, low carbs, high carbs, veggie, Sugar-busters, Weight-watchers, Jenny Craig, Nutri-systems, those hormone drops, and on and on .. just to name a few. I've lost some weight with just about all of them.
It wasn't until Gastric Bypass that I really lost weight and truly got my obesity under control.
But, I really didn't understand what is now called a disease ... obesity.
According to the AMA, obesity is a metabolic and hormonal disease that causes weight gain and high BMI ... so far, but there is likely more study to come. And there was apparently a lot of debate about calling it a disease because of a patient's behavior or choice in the matter to become overweight.
Dieting away restricted foods, such as the diets listed above do, isn't the most effective way to treat this disease. In fact, it is best, they say, not to restrict any foods. Our body needs fats, carbs and protein to function well. It also needs that fuel throughout the day, so skipping meals isn't advised either.
But, as I read more about this "disease", I think there is a component missing ... addiction.
Food addictions, and I bet that those almost all fall under the category of sugar addition, I think needs to be part of the equation.
Because, the advice "don't cut out any foods" to loose weight just doesnt seem like good advice anymore in this day and age with so much junk food out there.
We have so much "food" for cheap sale. Obesity treatment and management means facing some hard truths, that those of us with this disease should never say ... drink a soda or eat a bowl of ice cream. Those low nutritious, high sugar foods can a deadly food addition trip.
I read a lot here on MFP that in order to be success at this, we need to "cheat" now and again or allow ourselves a piece of cake from time to time or we are setting ourselves up to fail. I've been pondering this and wonder if it is not the other way around.
A recent study of thousands of people who dieted their way out of obesity and have maintained a normal weight for more than 5 years showed there were several common habits of these successful people, and one was that they never cheated.
I had gastric bypass 14 years ago and I almost never ate sugar for years after that because it would make me physically sick. I passed on birthday cakes, including my own, Christmas goodies, halloween candy and so on year after year. But as my body adjusted to the new digestive system, I began to tolerate sugar and I thought, incorrectly as it turned out, without harm. Over the last year, I was really craving food, almost all the time, and I was adding more calories to my diet as a result ... and before I knew it, 40 some pounds to my body.
Of course I knew I was gaining. I went up two sizes. But, as typical of my behavior when gaining, stayed off the scale.
I struggled at the end of every day to avoid anything sweet, but it got the better of me every night. Then I would crave salt. Then sugar again. I thought I was OK because in the old days, the days before surgery, I would eat a bag of potato chips, and now I ate just a bowl, or a full candy bar, now just a piece, may two or three... ummm, denial.
As I said, I've been thinking and writing a lot about this lately. It is all well and good to tell someone to cut calories, exercise more, add more nutrition, but if you are battling the addition, its feels impossible, hopeless and depressing. Not a recipe for good health.
For me, the appetite suppressant that my doctor prescribed stopped the additions immediately, the very next day I was off sugar, no cravings and eating much less calories. That told me that I wasn't "emotionally" eating or eating out of habit. I was eating because my body/mind was telling me to eat. And trying to rely solely on will-power wasn't working for me.
The very next day, I began food journaling for the first time in years.
I was still operating under the notion that all that "dieting behavior" such as journaling, forcing myself to eat at times that I didn't want to (like breakfast) and reading about food was over whelming.
Today, a month after I began this, I feel that all that "dieting behavior" is important for me in the treatment of my disease.
1. Calorie intact is very hard to gage and for years I thought I was eating the right amount for me but I wasn't. So I must keep track, measure, journal. If I get this wrong, I'm risking my life.
2. Breakfast is important for me so that I load nutrients into my engine. I'm not very hungry in the morning, but it doesn't matter. Before the meds, I didn't want to ruin the only time in the day that I didn't feel hungry with food! Now, that is no longer precious time for me because I don't crave food anymore.
3. I have to make sure all the food I eat, has nutritional value. That isn't easy, but it is easier if I eat real food and not processed. I have been making my own food and freezing them so I don't have to rely on pre made meals, etc.
4. I have to exercise, but I need to ease into it so I don't pull a muscle or push my lazy heart. The goal is to eventually get to every day, 30 minutes.
5. Drink lots and lots of water.
6. Get plenty of good sleep.
And, I will have to do this the rest of my life and since I don't want to be on appetite suppressants for the rest of my life, I need to avoid foods that trigger my addition. That means I don't plan to "cheat" on birthday cake or Christmas cookies n the future. It doesn't seem worth it and I don't think that depriving myself of that will make me fall off the wagon. I don't feel emotionally bad that I can't eat refined sugar any more than I believe a diabetic feels bad about the foods they shouldn't eat. I accept that these are the cards I was dealt. I'm not one of those other people here on MFP who are looking to get buff from their already svelte figures. I mean no disrespect, but their journey isn't mine. I'm here to try to put my medical condition into remission and keep it there for life. Their advice doesn't often apply. So I will leave the advice about cheating and sugar to the folks on a different path and I am going to work to stay away from the stuff and try to get healthy for life.
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Replies
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Not to be a debbie downer but Obesity is not a disease. The sugar addiction? really? do you eat fruit????? it has sugar.
You are losing weight because you are eating at a deficet...
You could have done that without the appetite suppressants or other interventions
The failure for your attempts from the "diets' you did was because they are restrictive and cut out foods that you apparently liked.
As for the AMA calling Obesity a metabolic and hormonal disease....the actual reason per the AMA is"Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately one in three Americans."
The change will aide in the fight against obesity-related diseases such as type 2 diabetes and heart disease, and could improve funding for obesity drugs, surgery, and counseling.
<snip>
A reason the AMA decided in favor of obesity as a disease is that it will decrease the stigma of obesity that comes from the widespread thought that it is just the outcome of excessive eating and not enough exercise. Doctors say some people do not have complete control of their weight.
I live in Canada and this is what the CMA decided..
The Canadian Medical Association said Wednesday that while it doesn't officially label obesity a disease, it is recognized in the medical community as such.
The CMA suggested physicians and other health professionals work with their patients to reduce obesity through education, proper nutrition and regular exercise
So in reality AMA chose to name it a disease for better funding, so the insurance companies would pay for treatment and even the IRS now has to make treatment a tax deduction.
It's good you are now losing weight and getting healthy but in reality it is about understanding weight loss and how to truely do it, not saying you have a disease that you need to put in remission...that gives all those out there who "need" an out their out...Im sick I can't control it...I have a disease...0 -
Here we go again... Didn't we just have a "food addiction" thread?0
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Unfortunately, it's true that the American medical system will label things--the diagnosis needs to have a name in order for insurance companies to reimburse, and also to prescribe treatment.
I don't deny that there's a disorder.0 -
Naming it a "disease" makes it easier for the medical community to collect money from insurance companies. But let's not make any mistake about it, the problem with the majority of obese people is that they became that way due to over consumption. Much of our society is disconcerned about how they eat and how much till they run into a problem with weight or suffer a consequence from weight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Obesity is a metabolic condition..but also a response to a behavior. The OP lists all the diets she's been on...and that is where the problem is. Yes..diets work. All of em. But if you cant actually live on that diet, long term, forever...you're soon back where you were. The answer is not a diet. Its a lifestyle/mindset change....and consistancy. I know that the day will never come when I can just relax my focus on my food and exercise. And that's ok. Its healthy. It doesn't take over my life, it is enhancing and improving it.0
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Sugar addiction? No.
This brings to mind that scene from half baked when Thurgood goes to rehab. "You're in here for some Sugar? Boo this man!"
Speaking as a former addict, sugar addiction is not a thing. I get sugar cravings, I eat a little and I want more, and this behavior may mimic addiction in some ways but this is not the actual disease of addiction. I see this all the time here and I can't help but think that anyone who would use the term addiction to describe food cravings has never known or been a substance abuser.0 -
Not to be a debbie downer but Obesity is not a disease. The sugar addiction? really? do you eat fruit????? it has sugar.
You are losing weight because you are eating at a deficet...
You could have done that without the appetite suppressants or other interventions
The failure for your attempts from the "diets' you did was because they are restrictive and cut out foods that you apparently liked.
As for the AMA calling Obesity a metabolic and hormonal disease....the actual reason per the AMA is"Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately one in three Americans."
The change will aide in the fight against obesity-related diseases such as type 2 diabetes and heart disease, and could improve funding for obesity drugs, surgery, and counseling.
<snip>
A reason the AMA decided in favor of obesity as a disease is that it will decrease the stigma of obesity that comes from the widespread thought that it is just the outcome of excessive eating and not enough exercise. Doctors say some people do not have complete control of their weight.
I live in Canada and this is what the CMA decided..
The Canadian Medical Association said Wednesday that while it doesn't officially label obesity a disease, it is recognized in the medical community as such.
The CMA suggested physicians and other health professionals work with their patients to reduce obesity through education, proper nutrition and regular exercise
So in reality AMA chose to name it a disease for better funding, so the insurance companies would pay for treatment and even the IRS now has to make treatment a tax deduction.
It's good you are now losing weight and getting healthy but in reality it is about understanding weight loss and how to truely do it, not saying you have a disease that you need to put in remission...that gives all those out there who "need" an out their out...Im sick I can't control it...I have a disease...
+10 -
OP has all the answers! Thanks for the help!0
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I know in there is great controversy over obesity and whether it is a disease or not. Here is what I believe. While obesity in and of itself may not be a disease it is definitely a symptom of some diseases. I believe that for SOME people food is an addiction but as with any other addiction it is a fight that can be fought. We all make decisions regarding what we put into our bodies, whether it's food, alcohol, tobacco, or drugs. Those people have an uphill battle. For the rest of the people, it is a matter of changing their habits and making a conscious decision to live a healthier lifestyle. In the end the why doesn't really matter, it's what you do about it that makes the difference.0
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I was obese. I didn't diet, I changed the way I viewed food. I improved my eating and got off my lazy *kitten*. Now I'm not obese. That's all there is to it.
A quote from another friend who was obese as well:This country has a population that claims there's no time, there's no motivation, they're too tired... and heart disease is claiming them, obesity is claiming them, TELEVISION is claiming them, TECHNOLOGY is claiming them, and most importantly:
COMFORT IS CLAIMING THEM.
Frankly, F*k comfortable. (yes thats a capital F)
Give me sweat and agony in the gym so I don't have to march my old *kitten* into physical therapists office one day so I can pick up my grand-kids.
Give me 5 hours of sleep a night so I can get up and milk every last drop out of the day.
Turn off my TV, unplug the computer, turn off my phone.
I am the dog that tears up your furniture because I didn't get my walk today.
I DENY COMFORT, I EMBRACE THE WILL TO GET - *kitten* - DONE.0 -
Do you have a disease?
Do you have an excuse?
Do you have FED (frequent excuse disease)?0 -
Hmm, why not call it sugar compulsion or something. There are definitely destructive behaviors that people partake in that can't be consider as addictions but more as compulsions. There is no denying there is strong attraction to foods linked with triggers.
I think the problem doesn't lie squarely on the person using the word addiction but the pervasive use of it in the media in ways that are linked to let's say...clinical addiction.
There is also evidence that when a person is overweight and trying to lose the body works against it. Leptin, ghrelin, and all that other gobbledegook. The body is working against it's best interest (depending on perspective) which is similar to disease like behavior.
So...are we arguing semantics or the actual point of the op?0 -
1. Calorie intact is very hard to gage and for years I thought I was eating the right amount for me but I wasn't. So I must keep track, measure, journal. If I get this wrong, I'm risking my life.
2. Breakfast is important for me so that I load nutrients into my engine. I'm not very hungry in the morning, but it doesn't matter. Before the meds, I didn't want to ruin the only time in the day that I didn't feel hungry with food! Now, that is no longer precious time for me because I don't crave food anymore.
3. I have to make sure all the food I eat, has nutritional value. That isn't easy, but it is easier if I eat real food and not processed. I have been making my own food and freezing them so I don't have to rely on pre made meals, etc.
4. I have to exercise, but I need to ease into it so I don't pull a muscle or push my lazy heart. The goal is to eventually get to every day, 30 minutes.
5. Drink lots and lots of water.
6. Get plenty of good sleep.
At the end of the day, her final findings make total sense for everyone.
1. Measure all your food and log everything that goes into your mouth
2. Eat at a pattern that makes sense to you so that you don't feelf hungry. For many of us that includes making sure we eat something in the morning.
3. Maximize your calories. Why have a candy bar if I can get twice as much nutrition and feel fuller from something healthier.
4. Get some exercise!
5. Sleep well!
I think she's right on target!0 -
Not to be a debbie downer but Obesity is not a disease. The sugar addiction? really? do you eat fruit????? it has sugar.
You are losing weight because you are eating at a deficet...
You could have done that without the appetite suppressants or other interventions
The failure for your attempts from the "diets' you did was because they are restrictive and cut out foods that you apparently liked.
As for the AMA calling Obesity a metabolic and hormonal disease....the actual reason per the AMA is"Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately one in three Americans."
The change will aide in the fight against obesity-related diseases such as type 2 diabetes and heart disease, and could improve funding for obesity drugs, surgery, and counseling.
<snip>
A reason the AMA decided in favor of obesity as a disease is that it will decrease the stigma of obesity that comes from the widespread thought that it is just the outcome of excessive eating and not enough exercise. Doctors say some people do not have complete control of their weight.
I live in Canada and this is what the CMA decided..
The Canadian Medical Association said Wednesday that while it doesn't officially label obesity a disease, it is recognized in the medical community as such.
The CMA suggested physicians and other health professionals work with their patients to reduce obesity through education, proper nutrition and regular exercise
So in reality AMA chose to name it a disease for better funding, so the insurance companies would pay for treatment and even the IRS now has to make treatment a tax deduction.
It's good you are now losing weight and getting healthy but in reality it is about understanding weight loss and how to truely do it, not saying you have a disease that you need to put in remission...that gives all those out there who "need" an out their out...Im sick I can't control it...I have a disease...
I am Canadian as well, and I don't believe it is a disease either, but a lifestyle. I was an athlete before I began my Career, and chose a typical lifestyle of work, spouses, and ignoring my own lifestyle of fitness. It was my choice, and so I gained weight, but remained active enough to keep myself healthy enough that my obesity didn't damage my organs, heart, and etc. I went through numerous tests after tests, and never once in my weight gain could the doctors find a medical reason for my obesity. All my blood work, and body was extremely healthy for an 'obese' person. This is why I believe that in Canada we do not see it as a disease, but a lifestyle choice. My doctors and I have had this conversation many times, and it has always come down to diet, because I have always maintained active through walking, hiking, and etc. I just recently changed my diet and decided to avoid harmful foods, and become stricter with moderation, and voila. 28 pounds down. Then I added more fitness again for toning and another 10 down, and added gained muscle. (I previously was doing extreme fitness of Mixed Martial Arts last year for six months straight, but still ate what I wanted and didn't watch my diet. I remained "obese" to the scale, but toned up, but then gained the 18 pounds I lost during that time while not doing the extreme fitness and still eating what I wanted, although the core toned up and became very strong. So, with active conversations with my doctor we decided to take the nutritional life style change approach.) Even when I was an athlete I 'weighed' heavy. I'm a heavy weight, so it will take the medical definition of 'obesity' will take a long time for the scale to say otherwise, and that's fine with me as long as my body looks fit, and that's what has been discussed with my doctor.0 -
It's not merely semantics. What the OP labels a "disease" is, if you read the post, actually describing a very ingrained set of habits. If you spend years and years developing bad eating habits, poor lifestyle choices, and pursue one quick fix to long term habits, you're not likely to find success. That's not a disease, that's human behavior.0
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If you've learned something about yourself that helps you succeed, good for you. That's the idea. Some of the details may not align with what others think, but they won't be living in your body. The general public doesn't distinguish between *addiction* and *habituation*, so addiction tends to be thrown around a lot. Call it what you may, you personally need to avoid sugar. So do. Best of luck to you on your journey and thanks for sharing!0
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I wish you all good health and joy in your journey.
If what I wrote helped someone, then it makes me happy.
Respectfully0 -
Sound like you're allocating a lot of blame to sugar. NEVER having a cookie or birthday cake again is the *right* approach to weight management? Maybe this approach will work for you, but I don't think it's applicable to most other people.
Where did you read that statistic about successful people losing/maintaining for 5 years never cheating? I think there is something incorrect about how you interpreted this statistic. I highly doubt that people who are successful never have a cookie. Can you provide a source for this?
You're trying to be introspective and look at why people are obese and assign blame, but what it boils down to obese people ate more food than they expended long term. It's not about sugar, or white carbs, or processed foods, or saturated fat, or addictive food, or any other bad foods.
I think it might be worthwhile to look at if the 14 years of restriction might have created your problem with controlling sugar, not the other way around.0
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