Need serious help with SUGAR!!!!
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I want to be attacked. But you have to yell "surprise! " first. Or it's no good.0
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]You won't even get me to take you the least bit seriously if I can't make a point (and I posted an abstract about from PubMed that agreed with that point) without everything I said being twisted around, there is such a thing as discussion, instead of "I don't see what that has to do with anything".
FWIW, I thought your post was bang on. But I also think that the topic remains controversial. Not "a joke" as it is treated on these forums sometimes, just controversial.0 -
Ok, but here is my take on this whole experience in this topic today. I posted that I thought sugar might affect your sensors (I guess pathways would have been a better word) like alcohol does, I further extrapolated that maybe that is why alcoholics (at least the ones I know/have known which is unfortunately too many, and have lived with some like a Sister and Ex-Husband) eat sugar on their days off of drinking, this is true no matter how many days it was since they last drank, at least that is my observation.]You won't even get me to take you the least bit seriously if I can't make a point (and I posted an abstract about from PubMed that agreed with that point) without everything I said being twisted around, there is such a thing as discussion, instead of "I don't see what that has to do with anything".
FWIW, I thought your post was bang on. But I also think that the topic remains controversial. Not "a joke" as it is treated on these forums sometimes, just controversial.
Then somebody said (to me) sugar and alcohol have nothing to do with one another, to which I replied the obvious (about fermentation as obviously you could not have alcohol without it). From there, the topic went on a tangent about sugar in alcohol for I don't know how many posts, but I only said that in response as I already explained. I kept trying to bring it back to my original point, no dice, then I started getting frustrated. So, then I checked PubMed because it is a good source of information about studies to see if there was anything along those lines and there was, and I posted it.
Maybe I am just really bad at making a point, but I did have a valid point in the first place, and I guess if I had just ignored the poster who said sugar and alcohol have nothing to do with each other, this all would have turned out differently.0 -
Then somebody said (to me) sugar and alcohol have nothing to do with one another[...]
If you're referring to my post, which wasn't to you, you're absolutely incorrect. I did not even imply that, and it's been explained to you at least 3x already.
At this point it seems like you are simply unable to comprehend what was said.0 -
Yes, but I'm trying to say that gambling is no more a physical addiction than food addiction, you don't snort or inject it, there are no receptors or buildup of tolerance or physical withdrawal. At least the parts of food themselves enter your bloodstream, yet people seem to accept gambling disorders as addictions more readily than food as an addiction for some people. I think it could be because more folks are able to relate to the effects of gambling addiction (losing money, your home, your family...) than food addiction, but I don't know.
If you want the non-scientific answer, this is a site based around people that follow basic calorie counting and IIFYM style approaches to weight loss. It's not a site for overall health, healthy eating, or really any mentality for losing weight other than basic calorie counting and IIFYM. Browse the forums a bit and you'll see what I mean. There's almost a cult-like phenomenon where people will make posts that consist only of general weight loss bullet points that have been repeated millions of times, and yet you'll see dozens of people pile in to say "well said!" and "great post!" as if it's breakthrough research. In short, there's a very clear and one-sided mentality that dominates this forum. As a result, these forums are not a great place to suggest you want to limit your carb intake to lose weight, and if you are suggesting you may even exhibit addiction-like symptoms towards something like sugar? Well, you're fighting an uphill battle, because such a thought clashes with the basic IIFYM and eat whatever you want mentality that pervades this site.
I suppose that's why I said earlier in this thread that it's pointless to argue over whether it's actually a physical addiction or a mental compulsion/disorder/addiction/whatever (e.g., much like gambling is). The more important question is if someone does struggle with overeating on carbs, what's the best solution for that person so that they can achieve a sustainable caloric deficit.
You are exactly, EXACTLY right. And you have injected some sanity in this thread with your replies
I do agree that the true answer for OP is what the best solution is FOR OP, and it's not gonna be the same as me or anyone else here, so the best we can do is offer suggestions and OP will decide (which I noticed happened MANY pages ago in this thread :laugh: ).
What really bothers me is the absolutist statements being made, as if there is only ONE answer for everyone here. Well, there isn't. Sugar addiction is something I have been struggling with since childhood. There are great points made regarding nutrient deficiencies leading to cravings, and taking supplements has really helped me. Exercise has helped a great deal now and in the past as well. But the reality for me is there are foods and drinks I need to stay away from because they have proven over and over to be my undoing, as well as monitoring amounts and sources of sugar I AM ingesting. IIFYM is a great *guideline*, but some folks have their own personal issues to take into account as well, so it isn't right for others to be making blanket statements.
I'm not blaming my weight gain on sugar addiction - it's not my crutch. But this is my personal battle I have to face and think about it every day and constantly, along with IIFYM, exercise, caloric deficits. It's part of MY solution.0 -
:laugh:
Nothing like praisign constructive progress and immediately backsliding into addiction talk.
Admittedly, the persistsent talk about fictional sugar addiction does shed some light on why so many feel they fight a losing battle with a nonexistent enemy.0 -
Wow... I'm gone for a few hours and there are 14 freaken pages!! Ya'll are crazy!
I haven't had a chance to read everything where i left off yesterday and I can't guarantee reading it all today (gotta work) and my computer at home is broken :sad: I am buying a new one tomorrow though.
Thank you all for the friend requests and personal messages :flowerforyou: :smooched:0 -
Show me someone that goes through withdrawal symptoms similar to drug or alcohol addicts and watch them be "detoxed" and then MAYBE i will consider food addiction a real thing.
Why would the symptoms have to similar or as severe? Giving up smoking does not have similar symptoms to a heroin addict giving up heroin, yet few would argue that both were addictions.
Few would argue? Anyone "in the know" would agree that nicotine addiction is more severe than heroin addiction. Nicotine is the most difficult drug to quit. In fact, NIDA used to have a chart on this...
That was more or less my point. They are both addictive, but the reactions are not similar.
I don't really have an opinion on whether one can be addicted to sugar other than I doubt there is sufficient research for anyone to say deifinitively one way or the other.
They have been trying for decades to prove that sugar is addictive and have been unable to do so without intellectual dishonesty. :ohwell:
If they could definitvely say "No, not addictive" why would the studies continue? Although the move is away from saying anything is an "addiction" to saying "dependence".
Because they are after federal funding. The food nazis won't stop, only multiply.0 -
btw alcoholics and drug addicts don't "recover" - they abstain - if they use again they are back to square one
Here's some semantics....
recovery = learning to abstain0 -
I can definitely relate! I am currently on the detox diet, which over the years I have found to be very helpful. I am not eating meat, dairy, wheat, gluten, sugar, caffeine or alcohol. Although it is only really "necessary" to be on it for 28 days, for me it is a blueprint for my regular diet, being a vegan. In the past I have found that this really helps with my sugar cravings, just by eating good, wholesome food. I also find it easier to do my daily run and HIIT routine this way. Some advice I have is to make yourself accountable to someone, tell them! It feels horrible and embarassing, but it is so worth it. Since Sunday when I told my mum about the problems I have, I have lost 4.3lbs! Also, empty your cupboards of anything tempting so that if you get a craving, you're going to have to leave the house to get some sugar. I also find that trying to wait it out for at least half an hour has been doing the trick initially. Hope I helped 0
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It's not an addiction, but habitual. Takes about 21 days of consistent behavior to form a habit. You just need to form a new habit. Set aside what ever treats you like in a measured portion for that day and STICK TO IT. Do it for 21 days and see if you can stick to that habit. But you HAVE to want to do this. Don't go in with the case of the "well-uhs":
"Well uh this happened"
"Well uh I wanted more"
"Well uh I don't think I can do it"
Unless you change the habit, it will continue.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So grab Duhigg's book on Habits. Search Charles Duhigg, read it, figure out your cues, routines, and rewards. Good or bad habits, they can be changed. Just read the book. Next caller...0 -
Ya'll are crazy!
Can you cite any peer reviewed articles to back this up?0 -
I think I too am related to the chocolate lovers! I am going to check out the recommended books, need all the help I can get cutting back on sugar. Some days I go so far over but haven't used up all my calories!0
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The real question in my mind is when someone feels they are addicted to sugary foods, what's the solution? Although, I suspect if there was a good answer to that question, a lot fewer people would be overweight.
For me, the answer was giving it up cold turkey. No cake, no donuts, no candy, no syrup, no desserts or sweet treats of any kind. I was not overweight at the time, but I ate way too much sugar. And I craved it. Once I started eating it I had a hard time stopping.
That was long ago and I really don't remember how long I gave it up, but it was more than a month. Since then, no cravings. It's been decades and I can still eat candy, cake, etc. without wanting to eat ALL the candy or cake.0 -
Show me someone that goes through withdrawal symptoms similar to drug or alcohol addicts and watch them be "detoxed" and then MAYBE i will consider food addiction a real thing.
Why would the symptoms have to similar or as severe? Giving up smoking does not have similar symptoms to a heroin addict giving up heroin, yet few would argue that both were addictions.
Few would argue? Anyone "in the know" would agree that nicotine addiction is more severe than heroin addiction. Nicotine is the most difficult drug to quit. In fact, NIDA used to have a chart on this...
That was more or less my point. They are both addictive, but the reactions are not similar.
I don't really have an opinion on whether one can be addicted to sugar other than I doubt there is sufficient research for anyone to say deifinitively one way or the other.
They have been trying for decades to prove that sugar is addictive and have been unable to do so without intellectual dishonesty. :ohwell:
If they could definitvely say "No, not addictive" why would the studies continue? Although the move is away from saying anything is an "addiction" to saying "dependence".
Because they are after federal funding. The food nazis won't stop, only multiply.
food nazis?? :huh:
Researchers want to be published. To be known. Whatever the funding source, they research something hoping they will be the one to find something no one else has found. If they are studying sugar or food addictions, they are not positive they won't find anything.0 -
Researchers want to be published. To be known. Whatever the funding source, they research something hoping they will be the one to find something no one else has found. If they are studying sugar or food addictions, they are not positive they won't find anything.
They just hope to find something. Many, many discoveries that have brought about major changes were not the intended result or even the subject of the research. That does not mean that studying a possible sugar addiction means they believe there is such a thing. It means someone will pay them to research it, and any research is more likley to get them noticed than none.0 -
Whether sugar is "addictive" is not something you can determine with a single study. Individual studies are going to look at very specific effects of sugar, or certain types of sugar-containing foods. It's really up to panels of experts to review the sum of the available literature and make a determination about it.0
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If you can't control yourself around sugar I would not buy sugary snacks at the grocery store in fear that you will just binge. Swap the sugar out for fruit and treat yourself to dessert once or twice a week. When you treat yourself go out for an ice cream cone or go to a café for a decadent pastry and coffee, but don't bring leftovers to your house.0
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In response to all the sugar addiction comments I want to add something I have read on the subject. When we eat something awesome and sweet like a brownie, we enjoy it. We enjoy it to a point that the brain releases the 'happy feeling' chemicals. So we continue to eat more brownie because it continues to make us feel all warm and fuzzy. The body would greatly prefer happy over sad. I guess this is true about comfort foods in general. We just need to learn that we don't truly need the whole pan of brownies.0
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Actually, now, looking at the list of courses, none of them seem to be about research in any capacity. Maybe epidemiology, sort of, but not really. None of them have anything to do with clinical research, publication, interpretation of results, etc. They're all simply didactic courses about learning facts, not learning anything about the actual process of science.
Rather than critiquing someone's course load, would it be too much to ask to actually quote the passages from the researchers that you think support your position? For what it's worth, I don't see people misrepresenting what the students that performed the study in question said, at least in their press release. For example, from the professor supervising the research:"This correlated well with our behavioral results and lends support to the hypothesis that high-fat/ high sugar foods can be thought of as addictive," said Schroeder.
While I agree the fox news article isn't the best source to cite to, you aren't citing to any source whatsoever. You're simply attacking the person you disagree with and their coursework.
Hahaha exactly. They just LOVE starting drama and picking fights anywhere they find possible. Thanks buddy!
"Jonnythan" or whatever the hell his name is life revolves around attacking me on every single forum possible. It's okay, I've requested he be removed from the site multiple times for not only attacking me, but a number of other individuals who don't agree with his opinions. He simply can't handle people not agreeing with him or not being right for once in his precious life.
And yet I'm still here.
You referred to a Fox News post about a press release about an unpublished study without peer review as "scientific proof." I'm not the only one who saw the absurdity of that.
Sorry I have more important things to do than be a condescending wise guy on MFP forums all day long. I don't have the time to search the internet to get the primary sources just so you can keep quiet and leave me alone.
aren't you the debunked health professional from the ketone thread?
Yes, the "health professional" who has been 110 lbs 15% body fat all her life, but is now 25-28% body fat with 50 lbs to lose. Her dad is a doctor, and she's an undergrad who got a cert as a radiation therapist. And just look at all those science courses she's taken. Her team of doctors all told her to take raspberry ketones.
I want it to be clear that these statements are all virtually verbatim things that she's told us in the past couple of days. Unfortunately the threads are gone, otherwise I'd just link to them.
she also recommended green tea for weight loss..
yes, I saw the posts and will vouch for what you said..
Yep. I saw them too.0 -
But what you've studied doesn't validate that sugar is an addiction. A person who has a Phd in physics may not know anything about nutrition.Zero science background? LOL. That's really funny.
Principles and practice of radiation therapy I, II, III, & IV
Fundamentals of radiologic physics
Patient Care for the radiologic technologist I, II
Medical terminology
Foundations of radiation therapy
Fundamentals of radiation therapy
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Radiation protection
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Mathematics for radiation therapy
Radiation therapy clinical internship I, II, III, IV, V, & VI
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Treatment planning I, II, & III
Clinical radiation oncology I & II
Radiation therapy physics
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Inorganic chem
Organic chem
Biochemistry
Intro to public health
Global & multicultural health
Epidemiology
Infectious diseases
Intro to nutrition
Pathophysiology
Pharmacology
^^^ That's a list of every SCIENCE class I've taken so far in college. So don't ever try to tell me again that I don't have a background in science. Just because I haven't finished my degree yet, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
It's not an addiction, but habitual. Takes about 21 days of consistent behavior to form a habit. You just need to form a new habit. Set aside what ever treats you like in a measured portion for that day and STICK TO IT. Do it for 21 days and see if you can stick to that habit. But you HAVE to want to do this. Don't go in with the case of the "well-uhs":
"Well uh this happened"
"Well uh I wanted more"
"Well uh I don't think I can do it"
Unless you change the habit, it will continue.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This is excellent advice! I need to learn how to ration out chocolate and cookies. Right now i'm cold turkey but this will definitely help when the time comes to add them back in!0 -
Ya'll are crazy!
Can you cite any peer reviewed articles to back this up? 0 -
I know how you crave sugar...I do also. To help me curb the craving, I sprinkle just a wee bit of cinnamon on my tongue. This seems to help.Also, try not to eat sugar free goodies, it makes the craving worse because you don't get that pleasure as you would from the real product. Hope this helps. Judy0
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Excuse me? During the process of fermentation, yeast breaks sugar down into ethanol and carbon dioxide, so it started out as...sugar.
Pretty sure huh? You a recovering alcoholic? You work in rehab? If you have no idea what you are talking about, its a pretty good idea to keep quiet.
Well, my father was an alcoholic, but no.
I don't need to be an alcoholic or work in a rehab clinic to know you're talking crap. No offence.
Alcohol is not sugar, nor a form of sugar, and your body doesn't turn it into sugar.
This is why diabetics have to limit alcohol intake. It raises their blood glucose.0 -
My original post SAID what you just said, are you always like this?
Yes, he is. Welcome to the forums! :flowerforyou:0 -
I am in the same boat! I love sweets and salty too. I have decided to go cold turkey as, like you, if I get started I don't quit until it is all gone. I am starting with chocolate as it is my biggest craving. I know I can do this and so can you!0
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I completely understand where you are coming from.
I have ALWAYS been addicted to sweets/chocolate. I am serious when I say addicted. I truly believe it's an addiction.
I have found that dark chocolate keeps me from eating the whole bag (lol, yes that has happened) It's much richer and I
am satisfied after a couple of pcs.
That has helped curb my cravings. That doesn't mean I am not prone to giving in and eating a pc of chocolate cake. But
it has helped on a day to day basis to reduce the amount I indulge in.0 -
"A cocaine addiction is a physical dependence."
Cocaine is not physically addictive. It is psychologically addictive.
http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/cocaine.htm
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000947.htm
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/cocaine-use-and-its-effects?page=2
http://addictions.about.com/od/cocaine/a/What-To-Expect-From-Cocaine-Withdrawal.htm
It varies somewhat on an individual basis, but it is well-documented that cocaine has a withdrawal syndrome associated with physical dependence.0 -
I believe it's the PERSON who has an addictive personality/tendencies that causes them to be addicted to drugs/alcohol/food etc... Not the substance itself.
Sugar even affects the same "feel-good" brain hormones as street drugs. Nobody would say sugar is the same as heroin, but it can still mess with your brain and body.
Sugar fuels every cell in the brain. When you overload on sugary foods, it may alter the parts of the brain that control how much you eat. In lab studies, rats that binged on sugar had brain changes like those of getting off drugs. In humans, just seeing pictures of milkshakes triggered brain effects like those seen in drug addicts. It was strongest in women whose answers showed they were more hooked on eating.
Can you beat your sugar habit by quitting cold turkey? Some sugar detox plans urge you to avoid all sweets. That means all fruit, dairy, and refined grains. The idea is to purge your system of sugar. Diet changes like this are too drastic to keep up. Changes that you can do only for the short term mean you'll fall back to your old habits.
http://www.webmd.com/diet/ss/slideshow-sugar-addiction0
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