WHO: Governments should regulate fast food to slow obesity
Replies
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So.....is that a reasonable cost/benefit ratio? Is there nothing upon which we, as a nation or a species, could have gotten a bigger bang for the buck? Do you realize that tthe lion's share of government revenues from tobacco levies don't go toward smoking cesation OR tobacco-related health care costs?0
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Seriously, what's the government going to do... give us all rations that meet a caloric limit every day? I think not.
YES. HELL YES.0 -
In. For mistitled post and fear mongering.0
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lol.
There is no such thing as "unbiased". It's your biases that cause you to discount the message you didn't want to hear.
We all have biases. When you can follow the research in spite of your own personal bias... and change your preconceived notions... that's when you're on to something.
Hey I spoke the same party line as you did 18 months ago. Follow the facts. You will be surprised where it leads. Start with the movie Forks Over Knives.
Start with more propaganda? A video from a doctor who is known to simply cherry pick information and ignore studies that don't mesh with his theory, is not substantiation of your nonsense
Point of correction, Dr. Greger had nothing to do with Forks Over Knives.
You are right on party line. Whatever you think is right.
My original point was education. You seem to be reasonably educated to your point of view, and have a set opinion.
And yet you sound like you don't actually know what causes heart disease, the leading cause of death in the U.S. I could be wrong about you, by the way.
This is the problem. There is a huge economic machine behind everyone believing that meat, dairy, and eggs have absolutely nothing to do with heart disease, so these industries fund studies/research that support their point of view, and cloud the causes.
And people easily buy into this because they don't like the message. They don't want to know that bacon and eggs will kill them when they are older. And so it goes.
The original link you posted from his site
But the studies that Greger cites, must be totally on point?
Again please substantiate your nonsense that meat, dairy and eggs will be killing people when they get older. Not a video from a biased site, or propaganda masquerading as a documentary
sorry man, I had to go get lunch.
It's funny you are so convinced of your point of view, sounds like me a couple years ago.
You are really attacking my point of view, strong words I think.
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cvd_ped/summary.htm#chap2
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cvd_ped/summary.htm#chap5
Your education about nutrition is lacking. You have succumbed to the very problem you are decrying. You have a bias. I was you 2 years ago.
just read the first article.
i don't think anyone ever argued that medicine, as a whole, supports consuming milk, eggs and meat. Is that what you're trying to say?
Atherosclerosis leads to coronary artery disease.
Atherosclerosis begins in childhood.
High LDL is a major risk factor.
High LDL is caused by saturated fat in our diets.
What it doesn't say is what are sources of saturated fat.
Do yourself a favor and compare the nutrition values of an ounce of cheddar cheese with 15% fat ground beef with 1 cup of black beans.
Whole plants foods don't have saturated fat.
You ever notice how dietary guidelines always say to limit lean meats dairy and eggs to X amount OR LESS?
You ever notice that the same guidelines say to include X amount of fruits and vegetables OR MORE?
This isn't rocket science to interpolate what is causing our health problems.
My diet that avoids animal products meets the guidelines.0 -
Education is the answer, not legislation. Teach people how to do better and eat better, than they will have the tools they need to do so.0
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There is no such thing as "unbiased". It's your biases that cause you to discount the message you didn't want to hear.
We all have biases. When you can follow the research in spite of your own personal bias... and change your preconceived notions... that's when you're on to something.
Hey I spoke the same party line as you did 18 months ago. Follow the facts. You will be surprised where it leads. Start with the movie Forks Over Knives.
Start with more propaganda? A video from a doctor who is known to simply cherry pick information and ignore studies that don't mesh with his theory, is not substantiation of your nonsense
Point of correction, Dr. Greger had nothing to do with Forks Over Knives.
You are right on party line. Whatever you think is right.
My original point was education. You seem to be reasonably educated to your point of view, and have a set opinion.
And yet you sound like you don't actually know what causes heart disease, the leading cause of death in the U.S. I could be wrong about you, by the way.
This is the problem. There is a huge economic machine behind everyone believing that meat, dairy, and eggs have absolutely nothing to do with heart disease, so these industries fund studies/research that support their point of view, and cloud the causes.
And people easily buy into this because they don't like the message. They don't want to know that bacon and eggs will kill them when they are older. And so it goes.
The original link you posted from his site
But the studies that Greger cites, must be totally on point?
Again please substantiate your nonsense that meat, dairy and eggs will be killing people when they get older. Not a video from a biased site, or propaganda masquerading as a documentary
sorry man, I had to go get lunch.
It's funny you are so convinced of your point of view, sounds like me a couple years ago.
You are really attacking my point of view, strong words I think.
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cvd_ped/summary.htm#chap2
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cvd_ped/summary.htm#chap5
Your education about nutrition is lacking. You have succumbed to the very problem you are decrying. You have a bias. I was you 2 years ago.
just read the first article.
i don't think anyone ever argued that medicine, as a whole, supports consuming milk, eggs and meat. Is that what you're trying to say?
Atherosclerosis leads to coronary artery disease.
Atherosclerosis begins in childhood.
High LDL is a major risk factor.
High LDL is caused by saturated fat in our diets.
What it doesn't say is what are sources of saturated fat.
Do yourself a favor and compare the nutrition values of an ounce of cheddar cheese with 15% fat ground beef with 1 cup of black beans.
Whole plants foods don't have saturated fat.
You ever notice how dietary guidelines always say to limit lean meats dairy and eggs to X amount OR LESS?
You ever notice that the same guidelines say to include X amount of fruits and vegetables OR MORE?
This isn't rocket science to interpolate what is causing our health problems.
My diet that avoids animal products meets the guidelines.
Did you ever notice that there are plenty of healthy people who eat a well-balanced diet that includes plants and animals?
You choose one way, I choose another. It's REALLY that simple.
Did you ever notice that there are overweight rocket scientists? Yeah, nutrition really ISN'T rocket science.0 -
like that would ever happen.... people should just have it every now and then.....0
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Many plant foods have saturated fat, and saturated fat is one of many contributing factors to high LDL.
Stop making sense.
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People have freedom of choice. People know whats in McDonald's meat just like they know poison is in cigarettes and they still choose to partake in those activities. The government cant really stop someone from shooting up heroin if they really want to just like they cant stop someone from eating 5 cheeseburgers.
Regarding meat consumption, its pretty sick that we have fields and fields of wheat for our animals that we are just going to slaughtered but people are starving to death and dying right next to these crops. We basically have imprisoned animals like the Nazis0 -
Good eating habits start at home! Lead by example or get out my way!0
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Kinda makes you wonder why the majority of people that actually have heart attacks have average to low LDL.Many plant foods have saturated fat, and saturated fat is one of many contributing factors to high LDL.
Stop making sense.0 -
People have freedom of choice. People know whats in McDonald's meat just like they know poison is in cigarettes and they still choose to partake in those activities. The government cant really stop someone from shooting up heroin if they really want to just like they cant stop someone from eating 5 cheeseburgers.
Regarding meat consumption, its pretty sick that we have fields and fields of wheat for our animals that we are just going to slaughtered but people are starving to death and dying right next to these crops. We basically have imprisoned animals like the Nazis
So many gifs... Must not succum to temptation...0 -
Because sugar. Or maybe wheat belly.
Kinda makes you wonder why the majority of people that actually have heart attacks have average to low LDL.Many plant foods have saturated fat, and saturated fat is one of many contributing factors to high LDL.
Stop making sense.0 -
You watching youtube again.:happy:
Because sugar. Or maybe wheat belly.
Kinda makes you wonder why the majority of people that actually have heart attacks have average to low LDL.Many plant foods have saturated fat, and saturated fat is one of many contributing factors to high LDL.
Stop making sense.0 -
You watching youtube again.:happy:
Because sugar. Or maybe wheat belly.
Kinda makes you wonder why the majority of people that actually have heart attacks have average to low LDL.Many plant foods have saturated fat, and saturated fat is one of many contributing factors to high LDL.
Stop making sense.
Well, yeah! I'm not a rocket surgeon!0 -
People have freedom of choice. People know whats in McDonald's meat just like they know poison is in cigarettes and they still choose to partake in those activities. The government cant really stop someone from shooting up heroin if they really want to just like they cant stop someone from eating 5 cheeseburgers.
Regarding meat consumption, its pretty sick that we have fields and fields of wheat for our animals that we are just going to slaughtered but people are starving to death and dying right next to these crops. We basically have imprisoned animals like the Nazis
Interestingly, the only ingredient in a McDonald's hamburger patty is ground beef.0 -
Salt and pepper also, but they actually add that during cooking.People have freedom of choice. People know whats in McDonald's meat just like they know poison is in cigarettes and they still choose to partake in those activities. The government cant really stop someone from shooting up heroin if they really want to just like they cant stop someone from eating 5 cheeseburgers.
Regarding meat consumption, its pretty sick that we have fields and fields of wheat for our animals that we are just going to slaughtered but people are starving to death and dying right next to these crops. We basically have imprisoned animals like the Nazis
Interestingly, the only ingredient in a McDonald's hamburger patty is ground beef.0 -
I would have to disagree...Our government is active enough in our personal lives already. Instead of intervening with free enterprise, how about they provide proper funding to teach child about food and health choices from an early age. Also, lets work harder on their lunches...Set the example.0
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Salt and pepper also, but they actually add that during cooking.People have freedom of choice. People know whats in McDonald's meat just like they know poison is in cigarettes and they still choose to partake in those activities. The government cant really stop someone from shooting up heroin if they really want to just like they cant stop someone from eating 5 cheeseburgers.
Regarding meat consumption, its pretty sick that we have fields and fields of wheat for our animals that we are just going to slaughtered but people are starving to death and dying right next to these crops. We basically have imprisoned animals like the Nazis
Interestingly, the only ingredient in a McDonald's hamburger patty is ground beef.
Yeah, they sprinkle some on at the grill. I just meant IN the patty. But yeah.0 -
In to catch up later and for rocket surgery.
(Unrelated note: If you look up "Surgery" on Wikipedia it opens with this:Surgery (from the Greek: χειρουργική cheirourgikē (composed of χείρ, "hand", and ἔργον, "work"), via Latin: chirurgiae, meaning "hand work") is an ancient medical specialty that uses operative manual and instrumental techniques on a patient to investigate and/or treat a pathological condition such as disease or injury, or to help improve bodily function or appearance.
Are the in the future!?!)0 -
somewhere, way back, someone said (basically) "education not legislation"...
I agree with that.
FWIW, I'd like to see something like MFP logging done in classrooms everywhere.
Totally this! But with the goals, measurements, etc. adjusted for children and teens. Tried to get my children to track, just so they could see what they were eating and they had no interest.0 -
I think governments should use education, not regulation, to battle obesity.
THIS.
Also personal accountability. Fast food makes people fat like guns kill people.
I'm all for education. But you can't legislated or enforce personal accountability. So what do you actually do?
Agreed that you can't legislate personal accountability. At least, I don't want to live in a society that tries. But part of the education is creating a culture where good health is valued. My observation--and this is purely anecdotal, no science or studies--is that people learn healthy habits (or not) from their home culture. Those who grew up in homes where eating nutritious meals at regular times together with the family are much more likely to repeat this pattern when they move out and start their own families. Those who grew up in homes where playing outside and sports were valued are more likely to stay active as they grow up. If we can build a culture like that, we will be closer to addressing the root causes of the problems. How to do that? Wow: tall order.0 -
I agree that all of society bears the costs of poor health, much in the way that society bears the health costs of smoking or motorcycle riders w/o helmets. It would seem that the answer is to tax unhealthy activity to give the government the money to pay for the health issues.
Of course the government would just spend the money on other things, so maybe that's not the solution. There could be disincentives in the health care act; smoke cigs and get a smoking related cancer? You'll be made comfortable but you're gonna die? I doubt a society that ducks responsibility at every opportunity will go for that.
So, short of education campaigns I don't see where government is going to solve the problem. And since we're not allowed to openly condemn bad behaviour because of political correctness I don't see what can be done. We have met the enemy and he is us.0 -
Salt and pepper also, but they actually add that during cooking.People have freedom of choice. People know whats in McDonald's meat just like they know poison is in cigarettes and they still choose to partake in those activities. The government cant really stop someone from shooting up heroin if they really want to just like they cant stop someone from eating 5 cheeseburgers.
Regarding meat consumption, its pretty sick that we have fields and fields of wheat for our animals that we are just going to slaughtered but people are starving to death and dying right next to these crops. We basically have imprisoned animals like the Nazis
Interestingly, the only ingredient in a McDonald's hamburger patty is ground beef.
Yeah, they sprinkle some on at the grill. I just meant IN the patty. But yeah.
not when I worked there.0 -
Salt and pepper also, but they actually add that during cooking.People have freedom of choice. People know whats in McDonald's meat just like they know poison is in cigarettes and they still choose to partake in those activities. The government cant really stop someone from shooting up heroin if they really want to just like they cant stop someone from eating 5 cheeseburgers.
Regarding meat consumption, its pretty sick that we have fields and fields of wheat for our animals that we are just going to slaughtered but people are starving to death and dying right next to these crops. We basically have imprisoned animals like the Nazis
Interestingly, the only ingredient in a McDonald's hamburger patty is ground beef.
Yeah, they sprinkle some on at the grill. I just meant IN the patty. But yeah.
not when I worked there.
Not what?0 -
Salt and pepper also, but they actually add that during cooking.People have freedom of choice. People know whats in McDonald's meat just like they know poison is in cigarettes and they still choose to partake in those activities. The government cant really stop someone from shooting up heroin if they really want to just like they cant stop someone from eating 5 cheeseburgers.
Regarding meat consumption, its pretty sick that we have fields and fields of wheat for our animals that we are just going to slaughtered but people are starving to death and dying right next to these crops. We basically have imprisoned animals like the Nazis
Interestingly, the only ingredient in a McDonald's hamburger patty is ground beef.
Yeah, they sprinkle some on at the grill. I just meant IN the patty. But yeah.
not when I worked there.
Not what?
lol sorry johnnythan.... early in the am... we didn't put salt on them when we cooked them!0 -
We make our own choices. Each bite we put in our mouth is a choice. Some people eat fast food everyday and are thin. We don't need government to tell us things are "bad" or "wrong", we need to be accountable for our own choices. Government has way more important things they SHOULD be working on instead of focusing on something we, as people, can do for ourselves and should. We make our own choices. The government has other things to do. Think before you eat!0
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Salt and pepper also, but they actually add that during cooking.People have freedom of choice. People know whats in McDonald's meat just like they know poison is in cigarettes and they still choose to partake in those activities. The government cant really stop someone from shooting up heroin if they really want to just like they cant stop someone from eating 5 cheeseburgers.
Regarding meat consumption, its pretty sick that we have fields and fields of wheat for our animals that we are just going to slaughtered but people are starving to death and dying right next to these crops. We basically have imprisoned animals like the Nazis
Interestingly, the only ingredient in a McDonald's hamburger patty is ground beef.
Yeah, they sprinkle some on at the grill. I just meant IN the patty. But yeah.
not when I worked there.
Not what?
lol sorry johnnythan.... early in the am... we didn't put salt on them when we cooked them!
Oh really? Maybe it's added before they're frozen and shipped though. I thought it was added at cooking time, but I've never worked there :laugh:
Either way, there are no crazy mystery killer chemicals added to the burger patties.0 -
One thing that I think is being missed here is that most people are not capable of knowing what's good for them. That, coupled with misleading practices by big food companies, is what has led to the catastrophic obesity crisis we currently face. In times where the public good is at odds with big business and big money it is the responsibility of big government to step in and impose regulations to help the little guys.0
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We make our own choices. Each bite we put in our mouth is a choice. Some people eat fast food everyday and are thin. We don't need government to tell us things are "bad" or "wrong", we need to be accountable for our own choices. Government has way more important things they SHOULD be working on instead of focusing on something we, as people, can do for ourselves and should. We make our own choices. The government has other things to do. Think before you eat!
I think the government would be silly not to focus on the general health and well being of it's population. People have already shared a litany of reasons why.
That said - regulating fast food is a tricky subject.
I don't think it would cost much to take some basic steps like advertising regulations though. Whether that is limiting the mediums they can use, or the message they convey - seems like a no brainer really.
I think it is absolutely ridiculous to not want the government to at least invest in educating people about weight loss. And this goes farther than putting calories on fast food menus. What does that mean if people don't even understand the concept of calories??
You can see from browsing MFP posts, that a lot of people (me included) are here because we have (had) no clue about nutrition.
I think the major problem, at least for the US, is that bureaucracy makes having an up to date, research based nutrition policy hard to pull off.
The problem in Canada is bureaucracy + we have a leader who doesn't believe in things like...science :frown:0
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