WHO: Governments should regulate fast food to slow obesity
Replies
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Obesity is the biggest SCAM in the USA! if people knew that NOT all calories are created equally we wouldnt have such an obesity epedemic.How do you intend to make them "feel the weight of their decisions" when it's you and me who are paying for them?
Exactly why you get government out of the picture....
Get them out
Let insurance companies evaluate the person and then set the cost of their policy accordingly.
Let their be competition.....
If the insurance company comes to said obese person and say, you know if you lose 50 lbs and keep it off, we will drop your premiums $50 a month.....
There is incentive...and the obese person can make the choice.
That is what happens with auto insurance....
Should not I pay more for auto insurance if I have had multiple accidents, multiple tickets.....
vs. you who have had no accidents or speeding tickets??
So you think that if we get government out of the insurance industry, insurance companies will start charging fat people higher premiums, and that will take care of anything?
Is that your plan? That's what you think?
There are economic issues for this for this scam, there is BIG money to make in this scam, its an illusion! It all started with NIXON when he decided to make food prices more stable and then in the 80s when he food pyramid was made scam all you need to know is the truth and lots of people dont want to hear it.
please elaborate.
and with references, preferably.
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The problem is that all of society bears the cost and burden of people who refuse to take care of their health.
This is where behavior modification should begin and end. Health insurance companies need to incentivize good behavior and deter bad behavior by adjusting premiums (many already do). If your BMI is high, cholesterol is high, you test positive for nicotine or narcotics, etc., your premiums go up (don’t get distracted by the examples I chose and get caught up in arguing the merits of them – just think of deterring unhealthy behavior / condition X generally as determined by the insurance companies’ medical professionals). If you don’t like paying more, change insurance companies or do something about your habits.
they already do this, thank you very much, and also find ways to exlcude those of us with terminal illnesses from coverage.0 -
Exactly why you get government out of the picture....
Get them out
Let insurance companies evaluate the person and then set the cost of their policy accordingly.
Let their be competition.....
If the insurance company comes to said obese person and say, you know if you lose 50 lbs and keep it off, we will drop your premiums $50 a month.....
There is incentive...and the obese person can make the choice.
That is what happens with auto insurance....
Should not I pay more for auto insurance if I have had multiple accidents, multiple tickets.....
vs. you who have had no accidents or speeding tickets??
Health Insurance companies have been doing this for a while with HRA and HSA policies. I work for Anthem and if your BMI is below a certain level you get more money added to your account, or if you lose a certain percentage of your body weight within a year and keep it off they do the same. Some are not always very forthcoming with the information or you have to hunt for it and sign onto their website, answer questions, etc. They do it for non-smokers too.0 -
Obesity is the biggest SCAM in the USA! if people knew that NOT all calories are created equally we wouldnt have such an obesity epedemic.How do you intend to make them "feel the weight of their decisions" when it's you and me who are paying for them?
Exactly why you get government out of the picture....
Get them out
Let insurance companies evaluate the person and then set the cost of their policy accordingly.
Let their be competition.....
If the insurance company comes to said obese person and say, you know if you lose 50 lbs and keep it off, we will drop your premiums $50 a month.....
There is incentive...and the obese person can make the choice.
That is what happens with auto insurance....
Should not I pay more for auto insurance if I have had multiple accidents, multiple tickets.....
vs. you who have had no accidents or speeding tickets??
So you think that if we get government out of the insurance industry, insurance companies will start charging fat people higher premiums, and that will take care of anything?
Is that your plan? That's what you think?
There are economic issues for this for this scam, there is BIG money to make in this scam, its an illusion! It all started with NIXON when he decided to make food prices more stable and then in the 80s when he food pyramid was made scam all you need to know is the truth and lots of people dont want to hear it.
please elaborate.
and with references, preferably.
0 -
Awesome thread...there is so much I want to comment on and don't think I can "quote" all the particular posts.
Government should not intervene except to ensure the safety of the initial product. A Whopper and Fries as lunch is not going to make you gain 10 pounds. Every day, every meal, maybe. Government should ensure that there is not arsenic, etc, in said Whopper. Our government is batting for both teams in this fight considering the heavy subsidies that corn (i.e. high fructose corn syrup) gets in the Farm Bills of the past decades and then to consider legislating against certain types of foods/drinks.
I think the argument that "my healthcare costs are going up" is futile. Healthcare costs will go up because the insurance companies are getting away with it. They have been for years. Hey, government, if you want to regulate something try that first. People are placing the blame on obesity (or fat people=me) because it's easy. I doubt that too many people would say, "well $%&^ you cancer patient, you made my rate go up". Even if people weren't obese, or there wasn't an "obesity epidemic", they would blame it on something else. It's easy money being made for them.
On education and the food in schools, I could go on for a while. I found, when I was teaching (that adventure could be a whole other post), that the biggest problem was not the "crap, unhealthy food" that everyone endlessly goes on about, but was hunger. The kids that I taught were hungry. Plain and simple. How many of you are in good moods when you are hungry? Can you get a lot done? I know when I am hungry, really hungry, I cannot think of much else except when I am going to eat next. Instead of all this snobbish rhetoric about how many fruits and vegetables should be on your plate or kids are too fat, we need to ensure that these children are more to eat then just the school lunch. This is a real problem.
Trying to ensure health or morality through legislation does not work. Anyone hear of prohibition? That was a success. We've made every "bad" drug illegal. There is a huge drug problem.
Someone posted something along the lines of "meh...wth....I like Taco Bell". YES. You do not want to limit my accessibility to crunchy tacos. REVOLUTION.
It's a little creepy to me that government wants to tell what to eat. I've always found the guidelines a little "Fahrenheit 451" - ish. What next? As far as my tax dollars going to "fight" the obesity epidemic, then give us a checklist of things to approve when I pay taxes. I'd check the obesity box before the current decade plus war box, or the ridiculous education/testing box, or the let's do a study on how paint dries box.
OK, I'm stepping off my soap box now. Thanks.0 -
McDonalds was created by very patient terrorists. They're going to make us a poor country by making us all unhealthy and fat. And then they're going to come in and conquer us because we're too lazy to get up and fight back. And our country will have spent too much on medication for diabetes and heart disease to defend ourselves.
As for insurance. Well. I will say that my genetics long ago precluded me from being in a low cost category. Ever. My BMI will never be in that "LOW" category, no matter how hard I try. You know the type. And then a few born with diseases that you just can't get rid of because, well...hey. Sometimes DNA hits you. And even though I eat healthier than the guy sitting next to me that noshes doritos every night, my cholesterol runs high and my insulin levels look like I eat sugar and candy for breakfast. Why you ask? Called genetics. The luck of the draw. So we're punishing those BORN with diseases vs people with things they can control. Wtg world. Not like I can brake early for it like I do when I drive! And that would be why insurance can't screw those with preexisting conditions. Because hey, there's not a lot you can do about some stuff.
ON THE SAME NOTE: People need to educate themselves and do something about things they can control though. I'm a big supporter of self promotion and support. Personal responsibility, you know, has long gone the way of the dodo in this world. It's really time for it to come back.0 -
Cholesterol is as much genetic as anything else. Charge people more for insurance because of their genes?
And what about BMI? Charge athletes more because their BMI is high? Or will you force everyone to submit to body fat testing?
It's not simple to just charge higher-risk people more for health insurance. There's also a great deal of societal resistance to the idea.
I didn’t want to get distracted by arguing about which factors should be chosen and yet here I am doing it! The health insurance companies have a wealth of data and highly paid medical professionals, that will add whatever extenuating controls they want for those that fail.
If you fail the BMI test, allow for a body fat test appeal (that’s what they did when I was in the military for the big boys). Or allow for the insured to show progress in areas with significant genetic influence, i.e., even if your cholesterol is high, you get credit if you maintain or reduce it.
My insurance company gives me a discount for keeping a low BMI, low cholesterol, normal BP and by getting a minimal amount of steps / exercise minutes as measured by a pedometer that automatically synchs to their website. The latter may be upsetting to people; if so, don’t wear it, and pay more money. I have better things to spend my money on, so I wear it. It is entirely the choice of the insured.0 -
As for insurance. Well. I will say that my genetics long ago precluded me from being in a low cost category. Ever. My BMI will never be in that "LOW" category, no matter how hard I try. You know the type.
No, I don't know the type. What's the type?0 -
There is no such thing as "unbiased". It's your biases that cause you to discount the message you didn't want to hear.
We all have biases. When you can follow the research in spite of your own personal bias... and change your preconceived notions... that's when you're on to something.
Hey I spoke the same party line as you did 18 months ago. Follow the facts. You will be surprised where it leads. Start with the movie Forks Over Knives.
Start with more propaganda? A video from a doctor who is known to simply cherry pick information and ignore studies that don't mesh with his theory, is not substantiation of your nonsense
Point of correction, Dr. Greger had nothing to do with Forks Over Knives.
You are right on party line. Whatever you think is right.
My original point was education. You seem to be reasonably educated to your point of view, and have a set opinion.
And yet you sound like you don't actually know what causes heart disease, the leading cause of death in the U.S. I could be wrong about you, by the way.
This is the problem. There is a huge economic machine behind everyone believing that meat, dairy, and eggs have absolutely nothing to do with heart disease, so these industries fund studies/research that support their point of view, and cloud the causes.
And people easily buy into this because they don't like the message. They don't want to know that bacon and eggs will kill them when they are older. And so it goes.
The original link you posted from his site
But the studies that Greger cites, must be totally on point?
Again please substantiate your nonsense that meat, dairy and eggs will be killing people when they get older. Not a video from a biased site, or propaganda masquerading as a documentary
sorry man, I had to go get lunch.
It's funny you are so convinced of your point of view, sounds like me a couple years ago.
You are really attacking my point of view, strong words I think.
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cvd_ped/summary.htm#chap2
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cvd_ped/summary.htm#chap5
Your education about nutrition is lacking. You have succumbed to the very problem you are decrying. You have a bias. I was you 2 years ago.0 -
As combat veteran all I have to say is that the WHO can stay the hell out of the United States. There was such a thing as liberty in this country once.0
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McDonalds was created by very patient terrorists. They're going to make us a poor country by making us all unhealthy and fat. And then they're going to come in and conquer us because we're too lazy to get up and fight back. And our country will have spent too much on medication for diabetes and heart disease to defend ourselves.
As for insurance. Well. I will say that my genetics long ago precluded me from being in a low cost category. Ever. My BMI will never be in that "LOW" category, no matter how hard I try. You know the type. And then a few born with diseases that you just can't get rid of because, well...hey. Sometimes DNA hits you. And even though I eat healthier than the guy sitting next to me that noshes doritos every night, my cholesterol runs high and my insulin levels look like I eat sugar and candy for breakfast. Why you ask? Called genetics. The luck of the draw. So we're punishing those BORN with diseases vs people with things they can control. Wtg world. Not like I can brake early for it like I do when I drive! And that would be why insurance can't screw those with preexisting conditions. Because hey, there's not a lot you can do about some stuff.
ON THE SAME NOTE: People need to educate themselves and do something about things they can control though. I'm a big supporter of self promotion and support. Personal responsibility, you know, has long gone the way of the dodo in this world. It's really time for it to come back.
I would challenge you to try this:
http://youtu.be/KuNFymmIFDw 0 -
As combat veteran all I have to say is that the WHO can stay the hell out of the United States. There was such a thing as liberty in this country once.
did you read the article? The WHO isn't even behind the initiative? The World Health Organization doesn't have any infringement on our rights as citizens of the United States, for gosh sakes.0 -
Awesome thread...there is so much I want to comment on and don't think I can "quote" all the particular posts.
I think the argument that "my healthcare costs are going up" is futile. Healthcare costs will go up because the insurance companies are getting away with it. They have been for years. Hey, government, if you want to regulate something try that first. People are placing the blame on obesity (or fat people=me) because it's easy. I doubt that too many people would say, "well $%&^ you cancer patient, you made my rate go up". Even if people weren't obese, or there wasn't an "obesity epidemic", they would blame it on something else. It's easy money being made for them.
On education and the food in schools, I could go on for a while. I found, when I was teaching (that adventure could be a whole other post), that the biggest problem was not the "crap, unhealthy food" that everyone endlessly goes on about, but was hunger. The kids that I taught were hungry. Plain and simple. How many of you are in good moods when you are hungry? Can you get a lot done? I know when I am hungry, really hungry, I cannot think of much else except when I am going to eat next. Instead of all this snobbish rhetoric about how many fruits and vegetables should be on your plate or kids are too fat, we need to ensure that these children are more to eat then just the school lunch. This is a real problem.
Trying to ensure health or morality through legislation does not work. Anyone hear of prohibition? That was a success. We've made every "bad" drug illegal. There is a huge drug problem.
Someone posted something along the lines of "meh...wth....I like Taco Bell". YES. You do not want to limit my accessibility to crunchy tacos. REVOLUTION.
It's a little creepy to me that government wants to tell what to eat. I've always found the guidelines a little "Fahrenheit 451" - ish. What next? As far as my tax dollars going to "fight" the obesity epidemic, then give us a checklist of things to approve when I pay taxes. I'd check the obesity box before the current decade plus war box, or the ridiculous education/testing box, or the let's do a study on how paint dries box.
OK, I'm stepping off my soap box now. Thanks.
so it is OK for the government to regulate/tell us what insurance to get, but it is not OK for them to tell us what to eat? Interesting notion..
In case you have not noticed, government has been involved in healthcare for about fitty years - Medicaid, Medicare, Mandates, and now that monstrosity called Obamacare - and what have premiums done, gone up...so I don't see how introducing more government is somehow going to help.
you want to bring down healthcare costs introduce competition by letting people buy insurance across state lines, and let people pick the kind of plan that they want, rather then having the government do it for them...0 -
Just an fyi to you guys who have sent me the most WONDERFUL messages. It has nothing to do with this topic. You can Send it all in PMs.
But the McDonald's comment was *sarcasm* *sighs* Wow people totally have lost it lately.
And yes, I personally have nothing against fast food. Or junk food. I just cannot partake.
Oh, and the hateful PMs? I haven't had weight loss surgery.0 -
There is no such thing as "unbiased". It's your biases that cause you to discount the message you didn't want to hear.
We all have biases. When you can follow the research in spite of your own personal bias... and change your preconceived notions... that's when you're on to something.
Hey I spoke the same party line as you did 18 months ago. Follow the facts. You will be surprised where it leads. Start with the movie Forks Over Knives.
Start with more propaganda? A video from a doctor who is known to simply cherry pick information and ignore studies that don't mesh with his theory, is not substantiation of your nonsense
Point of correction, Dr. Greger had nothing to do with Forks Over Knives.
You are right on party line. Whatever you think is right.
My original point was education. You seem to be reasonably educated to your point of view, and have a set opinion.
And yet you sound like you don't actually know what causes heart disease, the leading cause of death in the U.S. I could be wrong about you, by the way.
This is the problem. There is a huge economic machine behind everyone believing that meat, dairy, and eggs have absolutely nothing to do with heart disease, so these industries fund studies/research that support their point of view, and cloud the causes.
And people easily buy into this because they don't like the message. They don't want to know that bacon and eggs will kill them when they are older. And so it goes.
The original link you posted from his site
But the studies that Greger cites, must be totally on point?
Again please substantiate your nonsense that meat, dairy and eggs will be killing people when they get older. Not a video from a biased site, or propaganda masquerading as a documentary
sorry man, I had to go get lunch.
It's funny you are so convinced of your point of view, sounds like me a couple years ago.
You are really attacking my point of view, strong words I think.
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cvd_ped/summary.htm#chap2
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cvd_ped/summary.htm#chap5
Your education about nutrition is lacking. You have succumbed to the very problem you are decrying. You have a bias. I was you 2 years ago.
Um the 2 links you posted did not substantiate your fear mongering, try again0 -
I think people need to just be more accountable and stop making excuses.
That's right, I own up to my Big Mac induced comas so should everyone else! If I can stop at one Big Mac and two chocolate bars so CAN YOU!0 -
Awesome thread...there is so much I want to comment on and don't think I can "quote" all the particular posts.
I think the argument that "my healthcare costs are going up" is futile. Healthcare costs will go up because the insurance companies are getting away with it. They have been for years. Hey, government, if you want to regulate something try that first. People are placing the blame on obesity (or fat people=me) because it's easy. I doubt that too many people would say, "well $%&^ you cancer patient, you made my rate go up". Even if people weren't obese, or there wasn't an "obesity epidemic", they would blame it on something else. It's easy money being made for them.
On education and the food in schools, I could go on for a while. I found, when I was teaching (that adventure could be a whole other post), that the biggest problem was not the "crap, unhealthy food" that everyone endlessly goes on about, but was hunger. The kids that I taught were hungry. Plain and simple. How many of you are in good moods when you are hungry? Can you get a lot done? I know when I am hungry, really hungry, I cannot think of much else except when I am going to eat next. Instead of all this snobbish rhetoric about how many fruits and vegetables should be on your plate or kids are too fat, we need to ensure that these children are more to eat then just the school lunch. This is a real problem.
Trying to ensure health or morality through legislation does not work. Anyone hear of prohibition? That was a success. We've made every "bad" drug illegal. There is a huge drug problem.
Someone posted something along the lines of "meh...wth....I like Taco Bell". YES. You do not want to limit my accessibility to crunchy tacos. REVOLUTION.
It's a little creepy to me that government wants to tell what to eat. I've always found the guidelines a little "Fahrenheit 451" - ish. What next? As far as my tax dollars going to "fight" the obesity epidemic, then give us a checklist of things to approve when I pay taxes. I'd check the obesity box before the current decade plus war box, or the ridiculous education/testing box, or the let's do a study on how paint dries box.
OK, I'm stepping off my soap box now. Thanks.
so it is OK for the government to regulate/tell us what insurance to get, but it is not OK for them to tell us what to eat? Interesting notion..
In case you have not noticed, government has been involved in healthcare for about fitty years - Medicaid, Medicare, Mandates, and now that monstrosity called Obamacare - and what have premiums done, gone up...so I don't see how introducing more government is somehow going to help.
you want to bring down healthcare costs introduce competition by letting people buy insurance across state lines, and let people pick the kind of plan that they want, rather then having the government do it for them...
I didn't know that I implied anything about government telling us what insurance to get. If I did then that wasn't my intention. I think that insurance companies are making boatloads of money. And they are raising rates/costs and blaming it on this or that when mostly they just want to make more money. I think that should be regulated. To be honest, I've never had any choices in picking my insurance. It gets picked by my employer. I pay for that. I've had really, really crappy, expensive insurance and I've had really good less, expensive insurance.0 -
I think people need to just be more accountable and stop making excuses.
That's right, I own up to my Big Mac induced comas so should everyone else! If I can stop at one Big Mac and two chocolate bars so CAN YOU!
Does it...look like this?
*drool*0 -
There is no such thing as "unbiased". It's your biases that cause you to discount the message you didn't want to hear.
We all have biases. When you can follow the research in spite of your own personal bias... and change your preconceived notions... that's when you're on to something.
Hey I spoke the same party line as you did 18 months ago. Follow the facts. You will be surprised where it leads. Start with the movie Forks Over Knives.
Start with more propaganda? A video from a doctor who is known to simply cherry pick information and ignore studies that don't mesh with his theory, is not substantiation of your nonsense
Point of correction, Dr. Greger had nothing to do with Forks Over Knives.
You are right on party line. Whatever you think is right.
My original point was education. You seem to be reasonably educated to your point of view, and have a set opinion.
And yet you sound like you don't actually know what causes heart disease, the leading cause of death in the U.S. I could be wrong about you, by the way.
This is the problem. There is a huge economic machine behind everyone believing that meat, dairy, and eggs have absolutely nothing to do with heart disease, so these industries fund studies/research that support their point of view, and cloud the causes.
And people easily buy into this because they don't like the message. They don't want to know that bacon and eggs will kill them when they are older. And so it goes.
The original link you posted from his site
But the studies that Greger cites, must be totally on point?
Again please substantiate your nonsense that meat, dairy and eggs will be killing people when they get older. Not a video from a biased site, or propaganda masquerading as a documentary
sorry man, I had to go get lunch.
It's funny you are so convinced of your point of view, sounds like me a couple years ago.
You are really attacking my point of view, strong words I think.
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cvd_ped/summary.htm#chap2
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cvd_ped/summary.htm#chap5
Your education about nutrition is lacking. You have succumbed to the very problem you are decrying. You have a bias. I was you 2 years ago.
just read the first article.
i don't think anyone ever argued that medicine, as a whole, supports consuming milk, eggs and meat. Is that what you're trying to say?0 -
damn it jonnythan why did you alert me to this trainwreck?
I am lonely and weak.
I can fix you *eyebrow wriggle*
Rriow.
It's okay, I'm a doctor.
I am NOT a doctor but I'll take a look
0 -
I think people need to just be more accountable and stop making excuses.
That's right, I own up to my Big Mac induced comas so should everyone else! If I can stop at one Big Mac and two chocolate bars so CAN YOU!
Does it...look like this?
*drool*
Mmmm that's right baby.0 -
damn it jonnythan why did you alert me to this trainwreck?
I am lonely and weak.
I can fix you *eyebrow wriggle*
Rriow.
It's okay, I'm a doctor.
I am NOT a doctor but I'll take a look
We can both look at the same time. No cheatsies. On 3.0 -
McDonalds was created by very patient terrorists. They're going to make us a poor country by making us all unhealthy and fat. And then they're going to come in and conquer us because we're too lazy to get up and fight back. And our country will have spent too much on medication for diabetes and heart disease to defend ourselves.
As for insurance. Well. I will say that my genetics long ago precluded me from being in a low cost category. Ever. My BMI will never be in that "LOW" category, no matter how hard I try. You know the type. And then a few born with diseases that you just can't get rid of because, well...hey. Sometimes DNA hits you. And even though I eat healthier than the guy sitting next to me that noshes doritos every night, my cholesterol runs high and my insulin levels look like I eat sugar and candy for breakfast. Why you ask? Called genetics. The luck of the draw. So we're punishing those BORN with diseases vs people with things they can control. Wtg world. Not like I can brake early for it like I do when I drive! And that would be why insurance can't screw those with preexisting conditions. Because hey, there's not a lot you can do about some stuff.
ON THE SAME NOTE: People need to educate themselves and do something about things they can control though. I'm a big supporter of self promotion and support. Personal responsibility, you know, has long gone the way of the dodo in this world. It's really time for it to come back.
I come from a family tree full of obese type 2 diabetics-I've lost one grandfather to it and I'm currently losing my last living grandparent to it right now. My uncles have it and I'm pretty sure my mom has it (she won't get tested). I was told by more than one doctor that I was genetically predisposed to having type 2 diabetes, and my glucose number was indeed in the pre-diabetic range.
However, my new doctor told me that losing the weight could possibly turn things around. I took his advice and I've since lost the weight, the only one in my family for several generations to have done so (besides my sisters), and surprise surprise, I'm no longer considered high risk for diabetes, with my glucose number solidly in the normal range now. I may be genetically predisposed for things like T2, but that's not the deciding factor by any means-I'm proof of that
This forum is full of people who have overcome big odds and have succeeded not only at weight loss, but also better health:)
Eta: just saw your weight loss-that's very inspiring, great job! You're one of the people who is taking control and succeeding, in spite of the odds :flowerforyou:0 -
Just an fyi to you guys who have sent me the most WONDERFUL messages. It has nothing to do with this topic. You can Send it all in PMs.
But the McDonald's comment was *sarcasm* *sighs* Wow people totally have lost it lately.
And yes, I personally have nothing against fast food. Or junk food. I just cannot partake.
Oh, and the hateful PMs? I haven't had weight loss surgery.
Oh honey, have you SEEN some of the opinions people post? Just when you think someone is being sarcastic... um... they AREN'T! :noway: 0 -
False. People should regulate their own damn selves and stop blaming Jack in the Box for their health issues.0
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damn it jonnythan why did you alert me to this trainwreck?
I am lonely and weak.
I can fix you *eyebrow wriggle*
Rriow.
It's okay, I'm a doctor.
I am NOT a doctor but I'll take a look
We can both look at the same time. No cheatsies. On 3.
I just...I don't want to cheat..ok ok 1...2...30 -
This is an obscenity, period. Really, what do you expect from a nanny-state construct like the WHO? Do you truly believe they're more concerned with the health of anonymous millions, or with the perpetuation and growth of their organization AND BUDGET? Me, I'd go with the latter. If you need some governmental agency to make such decisions on your behalf b/c you can't/won't do it on your own, then "man up" all the way. Include your sterilization in the benfits package, too, as you clearly should be culled from the herd for mankind's benefit. If you will trade essential freedom for temporary safety, you deserve neither.............................0
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There is no such thing as "unbiased". It's your biases that cause you to discount the message you didn't want to hear.
We all have biases. When you can follow the research in spite of your own personal bias... and change your preconceived notions... that's when you're on to something.
Hey I spoke the same party line as you did 18 months ago. Follow the facts. You will be surprised where it leads. Start with the movie Forks Over Knives.
Start with more propaganda? A video from a doctor who is known to simply cherry pick information and ignore studies that don't mesh with his theory, is not substantiation of your nonsense
Point of correction, Dr. Greger had nothing to do with Forks Over Knives.
You are right on party line. Whatever you think is right.
My original point was education. You seem to be reasonably educated to your point of view, and have a set opinion.
And yet you sound like you don't actually know what causes heart disease, the leading cause of death in the U.S. I could be wrong about you, by the way.
This is the problem. There is a huge economic machine behind everyone believing that meat, dairy, and eggs have absolutely nothing to do with heart disease, so these industries fund studies/research that support their point of view, and cloud the causes.
And people easily buy into this because they don't like the message. They don't want to know that bacon and eggs will kill them when they are older. And so it goes.
The original link you posted from his site
But the studies that Greger cites, must be totally on point?
Again please substantiate your nonsense that meat, dairy and eggs will be killing people when they get older. Not a video from a biased site, or propaganda masquerading as a documentary
sorry man, I had to go get lunch.
It's funny you are so convinced of your point of view, sounds like me a couple years ago.
You are really attacking my point of view, strong words I think.
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cvd_ped/summary.htm#chap2
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/cvd_ped/summary.htm#chap5
Your education about nutrition is lacking. You have succumbed to the very problem you are decrying. You have a bias. I was you 2 years ago.
just read the first article.
i don't think anyone ever argued that medicine, as a whole, supports consuming milk, eggs and meat. Is that what you're trying to say?
Atherosclerosis leads to coronary artery disease.
Atherosclerosis begins in childhood.
High LDL is a major risk factor.
High LDL is caused by saturated fat in our diets.
What it doesn't say is what are sources of saturated fat.
Do yourself a favor and compare the nutrition values of an ounce of cheddar cheese with 15% fat ground beef with 1 cup of black beans.
Whole plants foods don't have saturated fat.
You ever notice how dietary guidelines always say to limit lean meats dairy and eggs to X amount OR LESS?
You ever notice that the same guidelines say to include X amount of fruits and vegetables OR MORE?
This isn't rocket science to interpolate what is causing our health problems.
My diet that avoids animal products meets the guidelines.0 -
Many plant foods have saturated fat, and saturated fat is one of many contributing factors to high LDL.0
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what defines fast food? I'm certain you can make a stir fry in under 10 mins0
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