WHO: Governments should regulate fast food to slow obesity
Replies
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So MityMax, are you content with your health insurance costs going up and up thanks to the increasing levels of obesity and expensive lifestyle-related diseases? You keep talking about what people should or can do, but not saying anything at all about what people actually do.
It is going up anyway....and has more to do with Obamacare and government intervention than it does with obesity
That's not even an attempt at a response to the question.
Yeah it was......
I don't want my insurance to go up......but it is.
And I am right with the reason why......
I pay as it is now for people who smoke....
Someone posteda graph showing the decline in smokers.....so than why hasn't my insurance went down....
That is how it should work, according to your logic.....
You know I find it ironic, that you are the one on here that got me to rethink my view on foods and actually do some research....and so I do....
And then you come in and do a body shame post on me......
Very ironic0 -
Any time there is talk of fast food on here, I seriously want to have that for lunch.
Can I come with??
Absolutley!
Me and you then hon.0 -
So MityMax, are you content with your health insurance costs going up and up thanks to the increasing levels of obesity and expensive lifestyle-related diseases? You keep talking about what people should or can do, but not saying anything at all about what people actually do.
It is going up anyway....and has more to do with Obamacare and government intervention than it does with obesity
That's not even an attempt at a response to the question.
Yeah it was......
I don't want my insurance to go up......but it is.
And I am right with the reason why......
I pay as it is now for people who smoke....
Someone posteda graph showing the decline in smokers.....so than why hasn't my insurance went down....
That is how it should work, according to your logic.....
You know I find it ironic, that you are the one on here that got me to rethink my view on foods and actually do some research....and so I do....
And then you come in and do a body shame post on me......
Very ironic
No, it wasn't. It was a straight-up denial of the factual premise that lifestyle diseases as a result of obesity cause health care costs to rise for everyone.0 -
No, it wasn't. It was a straight-up denial of the factual premise that lifestyle diseases as a result of obesity cause health care costs to rise for everyone.
But smoking has went down, and there are less smokers, right???
So why hasn't healthcare/insurance costs gone down.....
Yes lifestyle choices will have an effect on cost....
My point is that there will be more cost associated with government involvement and regulations and Obamacare than there will be with obesity rates in this country.0 -
No, it wasn't. It was a straight-up denial of the factual premise that lifestyle diseases as a result of obesity cause health care costs to rise for everyone.
But smoking has went down, and there are less smokers, right???
So why hasn't healthcare/insurance costs gone down.....
Is that a serious question? It can't be, right?
Good lord.0 -
No, it wasn't. It was a straight-up denial of the factual premise that lifestyle diseases as a result of obesity cause health care costs to rise for everyone.
But smoking has went down, and there are less smokers, right???
So why hasn't healthcare/insurance costs gone down.....
Is that a serious question? It can't be, right?
Good lord.
yeah it is.
I mean that is how your logic works right???
Get people to stop smoking, by government programs.....
Smoking goes down, that should lower healthcare costs....
That is what you are saying about obesity....
Get government involved....that should help lower obesity rates....
Which means we pay less......
That has been your logic, as I have seen it.0 -
The problem with not doing anything and letting people decide for themselves is that its costing all of us a lot of money. Healthcare has become very expensive. The lost productivity has a collective toll on the wellbeing of our society. Healthcare is a huge burden that doesn't have to be.
The leading cause of death, worse than all cancers combined, is due to any entirely preventable illness caused by the Western Diet. The cost to our society and economy is huge. There are many societies where heart disease is virtually unheard of.
*sigh*
So we need to take away from the people, more decision making??
Governments should not be allowed to do that.....you are asking for tyranny.....
We don't need more government in this arena....
Let people bear the costs of their choices.....so get government out of healthcare.
Let people choose to live healthy and save money or live poorly and pay to keep themselves alive.
No just education. The problem is that the information is readily available yet most people don't know it. Take the example of Bill Clinton. His Drs. caring for him when he was in office didn't tell him that it was the saturated fat and cholesterol in his diet that was causing his heart disease. He had bypass surgery, and still wasn't told that he needed to drastically cut back on animal food (the source of nearly all saturated fat and cholesterol). Then his bypass failed, and he needed stents.
It wasn't until Dr Dean Ornish wrote him a letter and told him to read Dr Caldwell Essylston's book that someone actually educated him about the cause of his disease and how to prevent it from reoccurring.
My dad has had 2 bypass surgeries over 20 years' time. And it was only last year after watching Forks Over Knives that he actually found out what was causing his disease and that he didn't have to suffer from it; that it was preventable.
How come more people don't know this. It's education. People need to be educated.
Imagine if we eliminated all coronary disease with this education. Imagine what that would do to the economy. (And you could include all adult onset diabetes too because it is the same cause.)
So you are telling me in this day and age, with the Internet at your finger tips, and all the stuff out there....
And all the various commercials on TV and radio.....
That someone cannot educate themselves???
We need government to do this??
Hmmm.....ok
Let me say this then....if that is the case, we are truly one F****d society/race
So question for you Max. Do you know that when you eat meat, dairy and eggs that you are creating the potential for coronary artery disease? Do you know that atherosclerosis starts in childhood, is due to eating meat, dairy and eggs, and progresses throughout our lives? So that as we age this arterial disease leads to strokes, heart disease, and contributes towards diabetes at midlife and later, did you know that?
Heart disease starts in childhood, unless you are/were eating a plant based diet. Did you know that, with the Internet and all?
Please substantiate
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/heart-disease-starts-in-childhood/
Lol, something unbiased please
There is no such thing as "unbiased". It's your biases that cause you to discount the message you didn't want to hear.
We all have biases. When you can follow the research in spite of your own personal bias... and change your preconceived notions... that's when you're on to something.
Hey I spoke the same party line as you did 18 months ago. Follow the facts. You will be surprised where it leads. Start with the movie Forks Over Knives.0 -
I haven't read all the posts, but perhaps EARLY education might be key. Make it part of the school curriculum (in physical education class, maybe?) so kids learn about how to eat healthier/prepare healthy foods, etc. Then in math class, instead of learning how to do calculus, teach kids how to balance budgets and compare prices to shop healthy but cheap. More more useful to them anyway. Then maybe combine that with making fast food more expensive (apply a fat tax? :-D) and produce more affordable, and I think we'd be seeing changes.
:edited for clarification0 -
No, it wasn't. It was a straight-up denial of the factual premise that lifestyle diseases as a result of obesity cause health care costs to rise for everyone.
But smoking has went down, and there are less smokers, right???
So why hasn't healthcare/insurance costs gone down.....
Is that a serious question? It can't be, right?
Good lord.
yeah it is.
I mean that is how your logic works right???
Get people to stop smoking, by government programs.....
Smoking goes down, that should lower healthcare costs....
That is what you are saying about obesity....
Get government involved....that should help lower obesity rates....
Which means we pay less......
That has been your logic, as I have seen it.
No, that's not how my logic works because my logic doesn't run on some nonsense binary single-cause-for-any-event system.
Your logic is, literally, contrary to the rules of logic. More people smoking means more health care costs. Fewer people smoking means lower health care costs. However, fewer people smoking doesn't mean that health care costs actually decrease. There are a million more factors that go into absolute health care costs than how many people smoke.
You can deny the fact that greater obesity rates inflate health care costs all you want. You'll still be wrong.
Higher obesity costs us all money. That is a fact. You are unwilling to admit that fact because if you do it will undermine your entire purpose in this thread, and perhaps even your entire view of government in general.0 -
The problem with not doing anything and letting people decide for themselves is that its costing all of us a lot of money. Healthcare has become very expensive. The lost productivity has a collective toll on the wellbeing of our society. Healthcare is a huge burden that doesn't have to be.
The leading cause of death, worse than all cancers combined, is due to any entirely preventable illness caused by the Western Diet. The cost to our society and economy is huge. There are many societies where heart disease is virtually unheard of.
*sigh*
So we need to take away from the people, more decision making??
Governments should not be allowed to do that.....you are asking for tyranny.....
We don't need more government in this arena....
Let people bear the costs of their choices.....so get government out of healthcare.
Let people choose to live healthy and save money or live poorly and pay to keep themselves alive.
No just education. The problem is that the information is readily available yet most people don't know it. Take the example of Bill Clinton. His Drs. caring for him when he was in office didn't tell him that it was the saturated fat and cholesterol in his diet that was causing his heart disease. He had bypass surgery, and still wasn't told that he needed to drastically cut back on animal food (the source of nearly all saturated fat and cholesterol). Then his bypass failed, and he needed stents.
It wasn't until Dr Dean Ornish wrote him a letter and told him to read Dr Caldwell Essylston's book that someone actually educated him about the cause of his disease and how to prevent it from reoccurring.
My dad has had 2 bypass surgeries over 20 years' time. And it was only last year after watching Forks Over Knives that he actually found out what was causing his disease and that he didn't have to suffer from it; that it was preventable.
How come more people don't know this. It's education. People need to be educated.
Imagine if we eliminated all coronary disease with this education. Imagine what that would do to the economy. (And you could include all adult onset diabetes too because it is the same cause.)
So you are telling me in this day and age, with the Internet at your finger tips, and all the stuff out there....
And all the various commercials on TV and radio.....
That someone cannot educate themselves???
We need government to do this??
Hmmm.....ok
Let me say this then....if that is the case, we are truly one F****d society/race
So question for you Max. Do you know that when you eat meat, dairy and eggs that you are creating the potential for coronary artery disease? Do you know that atherosclerosis starts in childhood, is due to eating meat, dairy and eggs, and progresses throughout our lives? So that as we age this arterial disease leads to strokes, heart disease, and contributes towards diabetes at midlife and later, did you know that?
Heart disease starts in childhood, unless you are/were eating a plant based diet. Did you know that, with the Internet and all?
Please substantiate
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/heart-disease-starts-in-childhood/
Lol, something unbiased please
There is no such thing as "unbiased". It's your biases that cause you to discount the message you didn't want to hear.
We all have biases. When you can follow the research in spite of your own personal bias... and change your preconceived notions... that's when you're on to something.
Hey I spoke the same party line as you did 18 months ago. Follow the facts. You will be surprised where it leads. Start with the movie Forks Over Knives.
Start with more propaganda? A video from a doctor who is known to simply cherry pick information and ignore studies that don't mesh with his theory, is not substantiation of your nonsense0 -
No, it wasn't. It was a straight-up denial of the factual premise that lifestyle diseases as a result of obesity cause health care costs to rise for everyone.
But smoking has went down, and there are less smokers, right???
So why hasn't healthcare/insurance costs gone down.....
Is that a serious question? It can't be, right?
Good lord.
yeah it is.
I mean that is how your logic works right???
Get people to stop smoking, by government programs.....
Smoking goes down, that should lower healthcare costs....
That is what you are saying about obesity....
Get government involved....that should help lower obesity rates....
Which means we pay less......
That has been your logic, as I have seen it.
No, that's not how my logic works because my logic doesn't run on some nonsense binary single-cause-for-any-event system.
Your logic is, literally, contrary to the rules of logic. More people smoking means more health care costs. Fewer people smoking means lower health care costs. However, fewer people smoking doesn't mean that health care costs actually decrease. There are a million more factors that go into absolute health care costs than how many people smoke.
You can deny the fact that greater obesity rates inflate health care costs all you want. You'll still be wrong.
Higher obesity costs us all money. That is a fact. You are unwilling to admit that fact because if you do it will undermine your entire purpose in this thread, and perhaps even your entire view of government in general.
No,
It is just that government invervention will drive the cost even higher than the actual problem will0 -
.
No,
It is just that government invervention will drive the cost even higher than the actual problem will
So your opinion is that there's literally nothing the government can do to fight obesity that will cost less than obesity itself. Even school education programs and limits on advertising to children, for instance, will cost more money than they will save0 -
No,
It is just that government invervention will drive the cost even higher than the actual problem will
So your opinion is that there's literally nothing the government can do to fight obesity that will cost less than obesity itself.
Yep, pretty much0 -
How is our government doing with the War on Drugs
Or the War on Poverty?
And how much money has that cost us??0 -
Its crap..
when ever you ask Big Brother to watch over you. its not a good thing.
People need to protect themselfs...
Should we get rid of the stop signs? Let Smirnoff market a "Vodka for Kids" brand?
We've got a million little rules designed to make the system run more smoothly, and most of them are pretty sensible. I'm not saying we need to outlaw the cheeseburger, but surely there are some practical things that could be done to reverse obesity rates.
Name three. Don't worry, I'll wait.0 -
No,
It is just that government invervention will drive the cost even higher than the actual problem will
So your opinion is that there's literally nothing the government can do to fight obesity that will cost less than obesity itself.
Yep, pretty much
So even school education programs and limits on advertising to children, for instance, will cost more money than they will save.
What particular knowledge do you have to support this position? Do you, say, have experience in large-scale public health programs? Some expertise in federal budgeting? Extensive personal research on evidence-based public health interventions?
Or maybe you're just operating from a base premise of "government intervention is bad" and then building your entire opinion around that?0 -
Maybe.. and I am just throwing this out there we should try and be accountable for what WE eat. The govt. does not hold a gun to your head to eat fast food. It is a choice each of us make. Keep the govt. out and take care of this on your own.. there are enough options that one can eat healthy if they really want to.
Eating fast food is not a choice everyone makes. Way too many children are growing up having no idea what a home cooked meal tastes like or how to prepare one.0 -
I'll second, third and fourth the idea that gov't doesn't need to do anymore regulating/watching/controlling us.0
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So even school education programs and limits on advertising to children, for instance, will cost more money than they will save.
What particular knowledge do you have to support this position? Do you, say, have experience in large-scale public health programs? Some expertise in federal budgeting? Extensive personal research on evidence-based public health interventions?
Or maybe you're just operating from a base premise of "government intervention is bad" and then building your entire opinion around that?
First of all....
What gives government the right to tell a private business how it should conduct business???
You are going down a rabbit hole there.......
Regardless of your other questions.
Private entities should be allowed to operate as they wish, and if they break laws, then they should be brought before a judge....
Not the whims of bureaucrats0 -
.
No,
It is just that government invervention will drive the cost even higher than the actual problem will
So your opinion is that there's literally nothing the government can do to fight obesity that will cost less than obesity itself. Even school education programs and limits on advertising to children, for instance, will cost more money than they will save
You don't think they talk about nutrition in schools already? Sure they do. Doesn't matter when that kid gets home doesn't have an example at home to look at. Change yourself for your children and you will see them make better choices.0 -
Let's stop obesity, cure AIDS, malaria, cancer, heart disease, and stop people from drunk driving and end gun violence. Then the population will explode and everyone will starve to death.
well then we can give out free condoms and abortions ...oh wait, we already do that...0 -
There is no such thing as "unbiased". It's your biases that cause you to discount the message you didn't want to hear.
We all have biases. When you can follow the research in spite of your own personal bias... and change your preconceived notions... that's when you're on to something.
Hey I spoke the same party line as you did 18 months ago. Follow the facts. You will be surprised where it leads. Start with the movie Forks Over Knives.
Start with more propaganda? A video from a doctor who is known to simply cherry pick information and ignore studies that don't mesh with his theory, is not substantiation of your nonsense
Point of correction, Dr. Greger had nothing to do with Forks Over Knives.
You are right on party line. Whatever you think is right.
My original point was education. You seem to be reasonably educated to your point of view, and have a set opinion.
And yet you sound like you don't actually know what causes heart disease, the leading cause of death in the U.S. I could be wrong about you, by the way.
This is the problem. There is a huge economic machine behind everyone believing that meat, dairy, and eggs have absolutely nothing to do with heart disease, so these industries fund studies/research that support their point of view, and cloud the causes.
And people easily buy into this because they don't like the message. They don't want to know that bacon and eggs will kill them when they are older. And so it goes.0 -
The government has never fixed anything, why would this be any different???0
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Obesity... the laziest form of population control.
Leave people alone and let it "roll"
0 -
There is no such thing as "unbiased". It's your biases that cause you to discount the message you didn't want to hear.
We all have biases. When you can follow the research in spite of your own personal bias... and change your preconceived notions... that's when you're on to something.
Hey I spoke the same party line as you did 18 months ago. Follow the facts. You will be surprised where it leads. Start with the movie Forks Over Knives.
Start with more propaganda? A video from a doctor who is known to simply cherry pick information and ignore studies that don't mesh with his theory, is not substantiation of your nonsense
Point of correction, Dr. Greger had nothing to do with Forks Over Knives.
You are right on party line. Whatever you think is right.
My original point was education. You seem to be reasonably educated to your point of view, and have a set opinion.
And yet you sound like you don't actually know what causes heart disease, the leading cause of death in the U.S. I could be wrong about you, by the way.
This is the problem. There is a huge economic machine behind everyone believing that meat, dairy, and eggs have absolutely nothing to do with heart disease, so these industries fund studies/research that support their point of view, and cloud the causes.
And people easily buy into this because they don't like the message. They don't want to know that bacon and eggs will kill them when they are older. And so it goes.
The original link you posted from his site
But the studies that Greger cites, must be totally on point?
Again please substantiate your nonsense that meat, dairy and eggs will be killing people when they get older. Not a video from a biased site, or propaganda masquerading as a documentary0 -
Its crap..
when ever you ask Big Brother to watch over you. its not a good thing.
People need to protect themselfs...
Should we get rid of the stop signs? Let Smirnoff market a "Vodka for Kids" brand?
We've got a million little rules designed to make the system run more smoothly, and most of them are pretty sensible. I'm not saying we need to outlaw the cheeseburger, but surely there are some practical things that could be done to reverse obesity rates.
Name three. Don't worry, I'll wait.
1) Schools. Example: Including effective, practical, evidence-based nutrition and fitness education in schools. Health programs currently existing in schools are incredibly outdated and ineffective, and much more effective alternatives have been demonstrated. They're simply not implemented.
2) Public infrastructure. Example: Remove barriers to and increase acceptability of alternative transportation strategies. Many simple, easy changes (such as better bike lanes and reorganizing and renovating bus/subway systems) have been shown to have significant effects on daily activity levels and health.
3) Advertising. Example: significant restrictions on the foods allowed to be marketed directly to children. There is real evidence that limiting advertising to children decreases consumption of high-calorie foods such as sugary cereals.
There is a ton that governments (from local to federal) can do to actually make an impact on obesity rates.0 -
Man we have thrown a lot of money at education, and we ain't doing so good....just sayin.
Roads and infrastructure.....something setup in our constitution and fine for the government to do.
No problem there for me.
Advertising....hmm....yeah, cause I don't see teens smoking or drinking or doing drugs.....
so that is working so well0 -
“Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.”
― Ron Paul
There is only one kind of freedom and that's individual liberty. Our lives come from our creator and our liberty comes from our creator. It has nothing to do with government granting it.
Ron Paul
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.
Adolf Hitler
Who's to say that we aren't exactly where the government wants us?0 -
Man we have thrown a lot of money at education, and we ain't doing so good....just sayin.
Roads and infrastructure.....something setup in our constitution and fine for the government to do.
No problem there for me.
Advertising....hmm....yeah, cause I don't see teens smoking or drinking or doing drugs.....
so that is working so well
Teens are smoking and drinking a lot less than they used to, and you would have to be incredibly ignorant of the actual history to think that government intervention has had nothing to do with that.0 -
I think governments should use education, not regulation, to battle obesity.
THIS.
Also personal accountability. Fast food makes people fat like guns kill people.0
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