Ketogenic Diet - How many carbs do you eat?

I wish skinny people, would be more sensitive and think twice about giving weight loss advice to fat or obese people. By skinny I mean people that have never been fat or obese in their lives-- being overweight by 10 or 15 lbs. and working your way back to your ideal weight just doesn't put you at a level to begin understanding what people go through to lose weight, let alone understand that most of them have tried multiple diets in which they were told to eat nothing but fruits and vegetables and a moderate amount of protein in various percentage combinations only to lose maybe 20 or 30 lbs. and gain 40+ lbs. back. Let's face it, a Keto diet for the most part is a lifestyle as much as eating gluten free is. You just don't start eating gluten free and as soon as all your ailments are gone, you go back to eating the same foods that got you sick in the first place. The same goes with the Ketogenic diet, we will have to continue eating this way for the rest of our lives. Remember there are different levels of carb allowance based on your carb tolerance. That’s right; most people thinking on going on a ketogenic diet are carbohydrate intolerant. So, telling them to eat more of what got them fat is like telling a gluten intolerant person to eat some gluten only this time with vegetable and expect a different result. So, "skinny people", if you’re not going to answer the question in a supportive manner, move on to the next blog. You should only give conflicting advice if the person was about to make a colossal mistake to try and talk them out of it. Otherwise, know this, most people that are about to try a ketogenic diet is not their first and they are frustrated with all the high carb low-fat diets out there that HAVEN’T worked for them. And maybe they’ve discovered or may suspect they are carb intolerant and want to free themselves of fat once and for all. Also, ketogenic diets are being prescribed for epilepsy and other neurological ailments. So, you could’ve just given bad advice to someone else reading this thread. With that said, about your other ignorant comment… the one about the body becoming acidic and reducing their bone mass, I have a question for you… have you not heard how many people get osteoporosis & atherosclerosis these days and at what age? Those used to be elderly people diseases, but not anymore. You see, even if people eat fruits and vegetables with moderate proteins, they can still develop and acidic state and cause the body to rob the bones AND teeth of calcium, which is the body’s go-to mineral by the way, to alkalize. This isn’t a problem of what we eat per se it’s more of a deficiency of vitamins D3 & K2. In the case of atherosclerosis, is more of a vitamin K2 deficiency as the hardening of the arteries is because vitamin D3 did its job and helped with calcium absorption, but beyond that it is vitamin K2 that directs all calcium to bone and teeth including that which has lodged in joints and arteries. And I’m glad you brought the topic up so I can educate my fellow Ketoers. Since we can enjoy cheese without the guilt in a ketogenic diet, we can eat cheeses like Gouda and Brie which have the highest content of vitamin K2 which would prevent any bone loss. And, vitamin K2 doesn’t have a toxicity level so, EAT UP MY FELLOW KETOERS AND KEEP YOUR BONES! Now, I know that not everyone trying a keto diet is fat or obese, but I just thought the comment was so insensitive and misguiding to others who are trying to get information off this thread.
Now, to answer the question of how much carbs to take… well for starters it should be around 20g to 25g/day for the first two weeks. Then you can increase by either 5 or 10 grams at a time to find your sweet spot. Since you exercise, you can get away with a higher starting point, but to guarantee to enter ketosis quickly I would keep it around 50g or 60g and then adjust from there after being there for at least 2 or 3 weeks. Bottom line is we’re not all created equal, which is why for some people the high carb/low-fat diets work and not for others. And for those of us who fall under the “…and not for others” category, thank God for Keto! One thing I love about this diet is that it’s so customizable.

Thanks for the replies. I do keep my fat intake at 50% so I guess that should be helping. I'd have a hard time eating only 20g of carbs a day. That seems so low to me. My average is 87g, and I'm losing weight.

Only 50% fat? Shouldn't that be higher with keto?

Correct. 75% fat is a better percentage.

she's not IN keto and that's definitely not a bad thing.

Heh. You have obviously never seen the results that come with a keto diet, nor have you done any research on the subject. Keto makes sense, it's a very scientific process. When your body is without carbs to burn for fuel, it begins burning fat instead. Maybe research a subject before you call it crazy?

true, but your still only going to burn fat at the rate at which you need the energy... same as any other diet.

In my experience, it did not allow me to burn fat any faster... or slower for that matter.

guess what? your body prefers to burn protein before it burns fat. so keto dieters enjoy your absolute lack of muscle mass.

Do you have peer-reviewed sources to back up your claims? I've been keto-ing since July, have lost over 30 lbs and as far as I can see, I still have muscle. You don't have to do low-carb, but being abrasive towards others who choose to do so makes you look like a bully and a child.

Do you have peer-reviewed sources to back up your claims? I've been keto-ing since July, have lost over 30 lbs and as far as I can see, I still have muscle.

In general a high protein intake is muscle sparing. http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=7918254 studies diet composition in energy balance and concluded "In conclusion, appetite suppression and fat oxidation were higher on a high-protein diet without than with carbohydrates exchanged for fat. Energy expenditure was not affected by the carbohydrate content of a high-protein diet." in other words the HP; 30, 40 and 30 En% was less satisfying and burned less fat than the HP-0C 30, 0 and 70 En% from protein, carbohydrate and fat version.

You tend to burn what you eat. It's the simplest route.

you need to eat as much carbs as possible, healthy carbs (fruits, veggies, rice pasta, rice) and low fat. Your brain needs carbs, if you try eating low carb your body is going to crave sugar like crazy. Eat High carb and A LOT of food.

you need to eat as much carbs as possible, healthy carbs (fruits, veggies, rice pasta, rice) and low fat. Your brain needs carbs, if you try eating low carb your body is going to crave sugar like crazy. Eat High carb and A LOT of food.

Sorry exact opposite to this advice????

OP - the best advice I can give is to do some independent research away from forums like this where a majority of posters do not understand the relationship between, carbs insulin and adapting your body to burn adipose tissue (body fat) as a primary fuel source.

Good luck.

The body will never use adipose tissue as a primary fuel source, unless your absolutely starving yourself. Most energy (fuel) comes from the food you provide through your diet and in ketosis it's dietary fat. In order to use adipose tissue for energy we must be in a deficit. What ketosis does for people with MetS, IR and the obese is basically improve and control better glucose metabolism and satiety basically, and the benefits of consuming higher protein than the RDA which is more about body composition, bone health, nitrogen balance, weight control, insulin sensitivity, cardiovascular health, reduced inflammation etc. Cheers.

^^^^^ case in point.

Get some independent advice and do your own research.????

One reason why people don't take you seriously.........Cheers.

Thanks for the replies. I do keep my fat intake at 50% so I guess that should be helping. I'd have a hard time eating only 20g of carbs a day. That seems so low to me. My average is 87g, and I'm losing weight.

SO DONT CHANGE WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

sigh...

people are crazy sometimes. if it's working why mess with it?? why restrict or punish yourself when you clearly don't need to?

So eating keto automatically makes us crazy and punishing ourselves? I don't feel like I'm punishing myself whatsoever. In fact, I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with new recipes! I made an epic creamcheese meatloaf a couple of days ago and it is uber delicious!

eating keto is forcing your body into a process it would prefer not to do for long periods of time, and has the risk of falling into ketoacidosis.

why take that risk and why put that nutritional stress on your body when you could... I don't know.... just practice moderation and eat all the foods?

I know some people do keto diets for specific metabolic reasons and that's different, but if you're just doing it so you can eat cream cheese meatloaf... well... you could do that anyway without having to force your body into using backup "in-case-of-emergency" metabolic pathways.

It's like running your house's electricity off a back up generator when the main electricity hasn't even been knocked out in the first place. Would you ever do that?

you need to eat as much carbs as possible, healthy carbs (fruits, veggies, rice pasta, rice) and low fat. Your brain needs carbs, if you try eating low carb your body is going to crave sugar like crazy. Eat High carb and A LOT of food.

Are you being serious or snarky?

From what I read and heard, Ketosis makes the body acidic and you may lose bone density since the body uses minerals from bone to alkalize it.

Ketoacidosis is the acidic state. Not ketosis. As for bone-density: Studies are inconclusive - there are as many that correlate ketogenic diets with loss-of-bone density (correlation is NOT causation) as there are that show no measurable affect whatsoever.

OK so ketones from ketosis are acidic and prolonged excess of ketone bodies can overwhelm normal compensatory mechanisms, leading to acidosis. Why risk your bone density?

Why not try mostly fruits and vegetables if they normally eat mostly carbs? unless they are diabetic. I suppose fats are cheaper than fruits and vegetables.

It depends on the individual. The clinically obese, especially as they get older, are more-prone to insulin-resistance than others. So even without a Dx of diabetes, the obese are often insulin-resistant and NEED to reduce carbohydrate.

Insulin resistance causes high levels of circulating insulin in the blood, which is clinically shown to both 1) cause cravings for carbohydrate and 2) is the hormone responsible for ingested carbohydrate to be stored as fat.

This is why so many obese people do well on a VLCKD (very low-carb ketogenic diet) where others have failed them.

For those that enjoy carbohydrate, usually as the weight comes off, they can gradually increase the carbohydrate consumption and maintain weight loss. Those that go OFF the VLCKD have a tendency to gain it all back. Talk to anyone that used to be 350+ lbs and maintained weight loss - the almost all exclusively stayed low-carb.

They should eat slow digesting carbs with fruits and vegetables and lean proteins and they would lose weight.
I doubt almost all of them are low carb. If they go off the diet they will most likely gain the weight back like you said and they have to eat more carbs eventually or risk dying from acidosis. There are far better alternatives to losing weight.

And by "slow digesting carbs" you mean bacon right? Eat bacon and lose weight? Im IN!

From what I read and heard, Ketosis makes the body acidic and you may lose bone density since the body uses minerals from bone to alkalize it.

Ketoacidosis is the acidic state. Not ketosis. As for bone-density: Studies are inconclusive - there are as many that correlate ketogenic diets with loss-of-bone density (correlation is NOT causation) as there are that show no measurable affect whatsoever.

OK so ketones from ketosis are acidic and prolonged excess of ketone bodies can overwhelm normal compensatory mechanisms, leading to acidosis. Why risk your bone density?

Why not try mostly fruits and vegetables if they normally eat mostly carbs? unless they are diabetic. I suppose fats are cheaper than fruits and vegetables.

It depends on the individual. The clinically obese, especially as they get older, are more-prone to insulin-resistance than others. So even without a Dx of diabetes, the obese are often insulin-resistant and NEED to reduce carbohydrate.

Insulin resistance causes high levels of circulating insulin in the blood, which is clinically shown to both 1) cause cravings for carbohydrate and 2) is the hormone responsible for ingested carbohydrate to be stored as fat.

This is why so many obese people do well on a VLCKD (very low-carb ketogenic diet) where others have failed them.

For those that enjoy carbohydrate, usually as the weight comes off, they can gradually increase the carbohydrate consumption and maintain weight loss. Those that go OFF the VLCKD have a tendency to gain it all back. Talk to anyone that used to be 350+ lbs and maintained weight loss - the almost all exclusively stayed low-carb.

They should eat slow digesting carbs with fruits and vegetables and lean proteins and they would lose weight.
I doubt almost all of them are low carb. If they go off the diet they will most likely gain the weight back like you said and they have to eat more carbs eventually or risk dying from acidosis. There are far better alternatives to losing weight.

You have no idea what dietary ketosis is and should stop talking about it in a public forum. Dietary ketosis does not acidify your body and does not deplete your bones.

Thanks for the replies. I do keep my fat intake at 50% so I guess that should be helping. I'd have a hard time eating only 20g of carbs a day. That seems so low to me. My average is 87g, and I'm losing weight.

SO DONT CHANGE WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

sigh...

people are crazy sometimes. if it's working why mess with it?? why restrict or punish yourself when you clearly don't need to?

So eating keto automatically makes us crazy and punishing ourselves? I don't feel like I'm punishing myself whatsoever. In fact, I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with new recipes! I made an epic creamcheese meatloaf a couple of days ago and it is uber delicious!

eating keto is forcing your body into a process it would prefer not to do for long periods of time, and has the risk of falling into ketoacidosis.

why take that risk and why put that nutritional stress on your body when you could... I don't know.... just practice moderation and eat all the foods?

I know some people do keto diets for specific metabolic reasons and that's different, but if you're just doing it so you can eat cream cheese meatloaf... well... you could do that anyway without having to force your body into using backup "in-case-of-emergency" metabolic pathways.

It's like running your house's electricity off a back up generator when the main electricity hasn't even been knocked out in the first place. Would you ever do that?

Unless I'm missing insulin, I'm not stressing my body out nor am I at risk for ketoacidosis. I feel better eating low carb and the added fat loss is a nice bonus too. Seriously dude, we've made a choice to eat low carb and we like it. Stop being an abrasive *kitten* and trying to stop others from pursuing this way of eating if that's what they want to do. It's really childish.

for sure. you do you and if it works and provides you the type of lifestyle you can sustain for the rest of your life than who am i to question it?

agreed. I just don't think it's a good idea for many novices who see it as a short cut to fast fat loss.

I feel it has become the new 'fad' diet. The trend that no one will even remember in 10 years from now.

Ummmmm.... no. Unless you are really young, you should know that low-carb diets are some of the longest reaching lifestyle changes dating back to the early 1900s when it was first hypothesized that insulin was related to the pancreas rather than the kidney, and before they could treat sugar imbalances with medication.

I feel it has become the new 'fad' diet. The trend that no one will even remember in 10 years from now.

Ummmmm.... no. Unless you are really young, you should know that low-carb diets are some of the longest reaching lifestyle changes dating back to the early 1900s when it was first hypothesized that insulin was related to the pancreas rather than the kidney, and before they could treat sugar imbalances with medication.

I am not against people who have to lower their carb/sugar level due to medical conditions. I actually have PCOS and know a fair bit about how a lower carb diet can help people with the same condition as me. However, people are now using this method to the extreme for weight loss. Healthy people should not be reducing their carb levels to 20g a day and expecting not to see side effects in the future.

Low carb eating has also been around way longer then the 1900's. OUr ancestors ate a high protein/fat diet before the days of agriculture of course. However I don't really want to go back to the days where we died when we were 35.

you need to eat as much carbs as possible, healthy carbs (fruits, veggies, rice pasta, rice) and low fat. Your brain needs carbs, if you try eating low carb your body is going to crave sugar like crazy. Eat High carb and A LOT of food.

This is sarcasm right????