"Metabolic Damage"

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  • j1968qaz
    j1968qaz Posts: 2
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    Hello Everyone,

    I have been following this thread and think there is a lot of great info. I too did the HCG diet, one round in Jan 2010, and I have not recovered from the ill effects. I lost about 15 lbs, but have gained twice as much back. In addition, to having a slowed metabolism, I became hyper sensitive to most carbs, and starchy foods. I will gain from 1-3 lbs over night in water weight, but have to really be strict on carb intake for the next several days to try to get rid of it. It has been a constant battle that has left me much fatter, hopeless, depressed and going in circles constantly. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can fix this? Thank you.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Hello Everyone,

    I have been following this thread and think there is a lot of great info. I too did the HCG diet, one round in Jan 2010, and I have not recovered from the ill effects. I lost about 15 lbs, but have gained twice as much back. In addition, to having a slowed metabolism, I became hyper sensitive to most carbs, and starchy foods. I will gain from 1-3 lbs over night in water weight, but have to really be strict on carb intake for the next several days to try to get rid of it. It has been a constant battle that has left me much fatter, hopeless, depressed and going in circles constantly. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can fix this? Thank you.

    Why would you want to view natural water tied to stored glucose as a negative thing?

    If you are doing exercise that burns carbs enough and for long enough that your body wants to store more to get better at said exercise - why would you prevent that and view it as negative thing.

    That would be like saying the weight gained from drinking your water is bad and you can't weight to pee it out to be more correct.

    That's not hyper sensitive, that's the body doing exactly what it's supposed to do, store carbs in the muscle for later use. Sadly for some viewpoints, that's going to store with water.

    Also, if you gain that much over night, that just proves how depleted you are on carbs normally. That greatly enhances the risk to burning more muscle mass accidentaly.
    Because it also means you are likely under-eating by a decent amount, more than reasonable amount.
  • j1968qaz
    j1968qaz Posts: 2
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    The reason for the concern is I continue to get fatter and fatter. Before HCG, I did not gain 3lbs after eating things like rice or a peice of cake. To be clear, I try not to indulge in sweets too often, because if I did I would probably be 300 plus lbs by now. I am hoping someone else that had the the same issues with hyper carb sensitive after the HCG diet could help me if they were able to get their body back to normal.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    The reason for the concern is I continue to get fatter and fatter. Before HCG, I did not gain 3lbs after eating things like rice or a peice of cake. To be clear, I try not to indulge in sweets too often, because if I did I would probably be 300 plus lbs by now. I am hoping someone else that had the the same issues with hyper carb sensitive after the HCG diet could help me if they were able to get their body back to normal.

    No, eating over your maintenance will make you fatter.

    Gaining 3 lbs overnight as water weight doesn't make you fatter. And that has an upper level of about 3 lbs. You keep gaining slowly after that, then you'll know what it is, and why it's happening.

    Since water is stored in whatever muscles you are training with the carbs, yes indeed, those should swell up.

    Are you aware you would have to eat 250 calorie DAILY over your current maintenance (likely suppressed) to gain 1 lb in 2 weeks.

    Read that again.

    So even if you lets say squashed your maintenance down to 1200, you would have to eat 1450 daily for 2 weeks to actually gain 1 lb of fat.
    And if your were lifting, it wouldn't even be fat.

    That is NOT hyper carb sensitivity. The body storing carbs in available stores is correct.

    Hyper carb sensitivity is when your insulin shoots up higher than it needs to, for longer than it needs to, leaving you with low blood sugar and feeling hungry before it finally drops away.

    Is that what happens to you after you eat carbs with no protein or fat?

    If it does, then for every meal and snack, have protein and fat, and eat carbs last.
    And do the 40/30/30 macro ratios to give more protein.

    If you really want to lessen that effect, then stop training the body to store carbs like that.
    Stop all but minimal cardio, and go lift some weights progressively heavier and heavier.

    That will also help repair true carb sensitivity that involves insulin - not this made up effect of the body doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

    Besides, wouldn't you rather have the carbs stored as energy in the muscles with water, ready for the next workout - rather than totally unneeded and stored as fat?

    So if you keep getting fatter - you are eating over your maintenance.

    You logging everything you stick in your mouth, weighing with scale all foods, measuring all liquids?
    Do you weigh packaged foods and do the math for correct servings eaten, if you eat the whole package?

    No, you put this in a topic under Goal:gaining weight. Was that purposeful or accidental?
  • ChaosMoosie
    ChaosMoosie Posts: 77 Member
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    look in to the Fast Metabolism Diet - I've seen some negative reviews of it (claiming it's super low calorie, etc.) but that is pure hogwash if you follow what the nutritionist who wrote the book says (Haylie Pomroy). I've been on it for 3 weeks and one day as of today, I have lost 12.8 pounds - very respectable, have never been hungry, eat a diet that is open to be read and has been given high marks by critics who KNOW what they're talking about, and I'm happy as a lark with it.

    My metabolism seems to have sped up - I've more energy, feel better and work faster than I've ever done before. Nice feeling. In fact it's made me feel younger than I have in years, and I don't hurt all over like I used to. Nice side effects.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    look in to the Fast Metabolism Diet - I've seen some negative reviews of it (claiming it's super low calorie, etc.) but that is pure hogwash if you follow what the nutritionist who wrote the book says (Haylie Pomroy). I've been on it for 3 weeks and one day as of today, I have lost 12.8 pounds - very respectable, have never been hungry, eat a diet that is open to be read and has been given high marks by critics who KNOW what they're talking about, and I'm happy as a lark with it.

    My metabolism seems to have sped up - I've more energy, feel better and work faster than I've ever done before. Nice feeling. In fact it's made me feel younger than I have in years, and I don't hurt all over like I used to. Nice side effects.

    12.8 lbs of weight, but was was the weight lost in 22 days?
    Water, fat, muscle mass?

    If you think that was all fat, then the following would apply.

    12.8 lbs x 3500 = 44800 deficit created / 22 days = 2036 calorie deficit daily.

    Do you imagine you really sped up your metabolism so much that you could eat at a healthy diet, and still have a deficit of 2000 calories daily, from whatever you think your maintenance was sped up to.

    So if you ate 1200 (you said not low calorie, but the minimum safety for a sedentary woman isn't great for a man), that would assume your maintenance was somehow up at 3200, while normal maintenance was probably around 2000. So 1200 speed up in metabolism to get from 2000 normal to required 3200, in order to create a 2000 calorie deficit daily.

    Ya - didn't happen. You are losing more than fat, sad to say. You will regret that later.

    Now like anyone that starts a diet, you probably lost 3 lbs of water associated with glycogen stores no longer topped off, and you are in constant state of depletion to some degree.
    You can confirm that between 2 days of weighing. Eat 2 bagels as bedtime snacks and class of water, see how much more you weigh in the morning.

    Depending on prior eating habits, merely cutting some sodium could also drop 2 lbs easily.

    So that leaves 7.8 lbs x 3500 / 22 = 1240 deficit daily

    That might be a tad more realistic, but sadly unless your are morbidly obese, your body probably can't support that deficit, and still losing muscle mass.

    Since you are excited by the results, pretty sure nothing will change, so please do the favor of saving this topic post in a blog or on your profile wall, to update when you reach 30 lbs lost.

    I've never seen anyone that had these big losses ever come back and tell a prior thread that everything worked wonderfully with the plan as it was going at the start.
    But I have seen at minimum 4 such come back after some months and weight was stalled and they were skinny fat and still not at goal weight. They still didn't update the topic where they were hopeful and sure, but I knew the usernames because I saved them.

    Hope it works for you. Quick weight loss without worrying about what it is always backfires.
  • jmzz1
    jmzz1 Posts: 670 Member
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    bump
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
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    Fresh off the press
    http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/truth-about-metabolic-damage
  • Leonidas_meets_Spartacus
    Leonidas_meets_Spartacus Posts: 6,198 Member
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    look in to the Fast Metabolism Diet - I've seen some negative reviews of it (claiming it's super low calorie, etc.) but that is pure hogwash if you follow what the nutritionist who wrote the book says (Haylie Pomroy). I've been on it for 3 weeks and one day as of today, I have lost 12.8 pounds - very respectable, have never been hungry, eat a diet that is open to be read and has been given high marks by critics who KNOW what they're talking about, and I'm happy as a lark with it.

    My metabolism seems to have sped up - I've more energy, feel better and work faster than I've ever done before. Nice feeling. In fact it's made me feel younger than I have in years, and I don't hurt all over like I used to. Nice side effects.

    12.8 lbs of weight, but was was the weight lost in 22 days?
    Water, fat, muscle mass?

    If you think that was all fat, then the following would apply.

    12.8 lbs x 3500 = 44800 deficit created / 22 days = 2036 calorie deficit daily.

    Do you imagine you really sped up your metabolism so much that you could eat at a healthy diet, and still have a deficit of 2000 calories daily, from whatever you think your maintenance was sped up to.

    So if you ate 1200 (you said not low calorie, but the minimum safety for a sedentary woman isn't great for a man), that would assume your maintenance was somehow up at 3200, while normal maintenance was probably around 2000. So 1200 speed up in metabolism to get from 2000 normal to required 3200, in order to create a 2000 calorie deficit daily.

    Ya - didn't happen. You are losing more than fat, sad to say. You will regret that later.

    Now like anyone that starts a diet, you probably lost 3 lbs of water associated with glycogen stores no longer topped off, and you are in constant state of depletion to some degree.
    You can confirm that between 2 days of weighing. Eat 2 bagels as bedtime snacks and class of water, see how much more you weigh in the morning.

    Depending on prior eating habits, merely cutting some sodium could also drop 2 lbs easily.

    So that leaves 7.8 lbs x 3500 / 22 = 1240 deficit daily

    That might be a tad more realistic, but sadly unless your are morbidly obese, your body probably can't support that deficit, and still losing muscle mass.

    Since you are excited by the results, pretty sure nothing will change, so please do the favor of saving this topic post in a blog or on your profile wall, to update when you reach 30 lbs lost.

    I've never seen anyone that had these big losses ever come back and tell a prior thread that everything worked wonderfully with the plan as it was going at the start.
    But I have seen at minimum 4 such come back after some months and weight was stalled and they were skinny fat and still not at goal weight. They still didn't update the topic where they were hopeful and sure, but I knew the usernames because I saved them.

    Hope it works for you. Quick weight loss without worrying about what it is always backfires.

    Formulas can be widely inaccurate depending on the individual body. Its better to get your RMR measured. I was burning 200 g of fat every day at rest and lost 3 lbs a week with out any problem (confirmed by an ultrasound body fat % tests). It depends if the person has normal, below normal or faster metabolism.
  • soehlerking
    soehlerking Posts: 589 Member
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    bump for later
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Fresh off the press
    http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/truth-about-metabolic-damage

    bump.

    Even if you don't like some of the terms used, the effects are real and experienced by many even when they should have enough fat as energy supply.
  • oc1timoco
    oc1timoco Posts: 272 Member
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    I learned the hard way myself. I gained back 15 pounds of my 170 pound weight loss due to the dreaded starvation mode. Which I kept myself in for almost 3 years prior to the gain back. When fat cells get damaged from this mode it doesn't allow the correct hormones in to send a signal that your body can burn the excess fat. Fat cells can be repaired so to speak by incorporating a diet high in the good fats. ensuring that 50% of your protein comes from other than meat sources and don't let your blood sugar spike.
  • RHSheetz
    RHSheetz Posts: 268 Member
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    I have "yo-yo" dieted for 25 years and recently completed a alow carb, low calorie, meal replacement diet that helped me lose over 200 lbs. Once I left the diet and tried to hit maintenance while lifting I kept putting on weight. I was about to go back on the plan when I connected with a Trainer who was also a Body Builder. Once we identified that I am Carb Insensitive I started losing, that then slowed down to a halt and we tried a reverse diet and recovery plan. While I do not have a normal metabolism and many never have one. I think we have finally turned the corner and I am able to eat a moderate amount of carbs without gaining and have started a steady loss. Here is a resource that I found on this topic as I was going through the issues: Great information:

    http://www.metaboliceffect.com/
  • RHSheetz
    RHSheetz Posts: 268 Member
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    I learned the hard way myself. I gained back 15 pounds of my 170 pound weight loss due to the dreaded starvation mode. Which I kept myself in for almost 3 years prior to the gain back. When fat cells get damaged from this mode it doesn't allow the correct hormones in to send a signal that your body can burn the excess fat. Fat cells can be repaired so to speak by incorporating a diet high in the good fats. ensuring that 50% of your protein comes from other than meat sources and don't let your blood sugar spike.

    Blood sugar spikes can cause a LOT of issues.
  • annabellj
    annabellj Posts: 1,337 Member
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    bump for later!
  • wonderwoman234
    wonderwoman234 Posts: 551 Member
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    I suggest the folks who claim to hold onto fat because they aren't eating enough read this article, it sums it up nicely

    http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/

    The guy who wrote this article has absolutely NO credentials. He's not a scientist, nutritionist or doctor.

    I am seeing one of the top sports nutritionists in the country on Thursday and I am definitely going to be asking her about Metabolic Damage, starvation mode, etc. I'll post what I learn.
  • salzej01
    salzej01 Posts: 125 Member
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    Marking to read when I have time!
  • wonderwoman234
    wonderwoman234 Posts: 551 Member
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    Fresh off the press
    http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/truth-about-metabolic-damage

    Now this is a great article by someone who HAS credentials....he's an MD. Nice post, awesome abs guy.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    I suggest the folks who claim to hold onto fat because they aren't eating enough read this article, it sums it up nicely

    http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/

    The guy who wrote this article has absolutely NO credentials. He's not a scientist, nutritionist or doctor.

    I am seeing one of the top sports nutritionists in the country on Thursday and I am definitely going to be asking her about Metabolic Damage, starvation mode, etc. I'll post what I learn.

    Again, terms used are causing confusion.

    He actually does discuss the fact you can squash your metabolism lower than it needs to be, adaptive thermogenesis - you read the link given above for another discussion on it.

    Your link he is very specific on what he is addressing by the term "starvation mode" - and when some people think it happens.

    As he points out, there's the extreme it happens because you skipped breakfast, there is also the extreme that it doesn't happen at all.

    What he doesn't discuss much though, is that while you can keep cutting until you start losing weight again, do you really want your body to adapt to the max requiring you to eat so little calories?
    Giving a very narrow margin for error to see success, and causing terrible compliance perhaps, and making maintenance a real dog.

    The link above at least discusses repair or reseting that could help get it back up again.
  • bevtyndall
    bevtyndall Posts: 72 Member
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    bump

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