Broscience FTW

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  • Natmarie73
    Natmarie73 Posts: 287 Member
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    OP why are you arguing with your friend? If she doesn't agree with you and you want to keep her as a friend then let it be. You don't need to "save" her, or "convert" her or even educate her. Just be a friend and when she asks you what you are doing to successfully lose weight tell her in a non-judgemental way and she might even start to accept what you have to tell her.

    You can't force people to believe what you want them to believe so IMO it would be better to avoid any conversations with her about things you disagree on, unless of course you want to get into a verbal stoush and alienate her.

    I'm assuming there are other aspects of her personality that have attracted you to her as a friend so focus on those, and leave the arguing for MFP.

    P.S, I hope she isn't a member of this forum and finds out you are bagging her all over the internet :embarassed:
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
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    OP why are you arguing with your friend? If she doesn't agree with you and you want to keep her as a friend then let it be. You don't need to "save" her, or "convert" her or even educate her. Just be a friend and when she asks you what you are doing to successfully lose weight tell her in a non-judgemental way and she might even start to accept what you have to tell her.

    You can't force people to believe what you want them to believe so IMO it would be better to avoid any conversations with her about things you disagree on, unless of course you want to get into a verbal stoush and alienate her.

    I'm assuming there are other aspects of her personality that have attracted you to her as a friend so focus on those, and leave the arguing for MFP.

    P.S, I hope she isn't a member of this forum and finds out you are bagging her all over the internet :embarassed:

    I think when someone says calorie deficit does not matter and you do need it t lose weight that, that needs to be challenged..
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    OP why are you arguing with your friend? If she doesn't agree with you and you want to keep her as a friend then let it be. You don't need to "save" her, or "convert" her or even educate her. Just be a friend and when she asks you what you are doing to successfully lose weight tell her in a non-judgemental way and she might even start to accept what you have to tell her.

    You can't force people to believe what you want them to believe so IMO it would be better to avoid any conversations with her about things you disagree on, unless of course you want to get into a verbal stoush and alienate her.

    I'm assuming there are other aspects of her personality that have attracted you to her as a friend so focus on those, and leave the arguing for MFP.

    P.S, I hope she isn't a member of this forum and finds out you are bagging her all over the internet :embarassed:

    I think when someone says calorie deficit does not matter and you do need it t lose weight that, that needs to be challenged..

    Indeed. I would challenge my friends on something like this...

    ...and if at the end we still disagree, then we can decide to still be friends...

    ...probably.
  • Natmarie73
    Natmarie73 Posts: 287 Member
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    I think when someone says calorie deficit does not matter and you do need it t lose weight that, that needs to be challenged..

    Why?
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
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    I think when someone says calorie deficit does not matter and you do need it t lose weight that, that needs to be challenged..

    Why?
    Because it's true.
  • ashleyisgreat
    ashleyisgreat Posts: 586 Member
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    I think when someone says calorie deficit does not matter and you do need it t lose weight that, that needs to be challenged..

    Why?

    There are lots of things that come down to personal preference, such as her decision to do a paleo/primal thing. That's cool, and although I wouldn't want to do it myself, I wouldn't bash her for it. But MAN, saying that you can eat at a surplus and still lose weight--that is a pretty egregious error and I can't remain silent on something like that. I value education and knowledge. It's an important aspect in both of our lives. We are both pursuing PhDs and information and knowledge ought to matter to us. It should matter to everyone, actually, but it seems particularly shocking that someone who is devoting their life to higher education could be so adamantly misinformed.
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    Today I got into an argument with a friend about nutrition, which is a mistake because this particular friend is a big believer in broscience nonsense. She often touts myths without knowing much about science or nutrition.

    So today she insisted that you can lose weight while on a surplus as long as you're eating paleo.

    Tell her that if this was true, all the "cavemen" would have starved to death and we wouldn't have evolved.

    I mean, if they're constantly losing weight eating a palaeolithic diet even when in calorie surplus, then they're going to starve to death, poor things. :sad:

    If they ate at a surplus, they gained weight. They didn't get fat because they had to hunt and gather their food before they could eat it. And there would have been times of the year when food was short and they slowly lost weight because they were in a deficit, and times of the year when food would have been more plentiful and they would have eaten at a surplus because they're very very hungry and so regained the weight they lost, which mostly would have been muscle gains due to the amount of exercise they do finding food (though some fat gain as well because fat is very important for surviving the times of the year when there was less food).
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    I think when someone says calorie deficit does not matter and you do need it t lose weight that, that needs to be challenged..

    Why?

    because of the sheer number of people who say "I'm doing everything right but still not losing weight, why?"

    fact is they have a very healthy lifestyle - balanced diet, plenty of exercise, etc.... but they're not losing because they're not in calorie deficit. Result: extreme frustration. Solution: log food, create a sensible deficit, lose weight.
  • Showcase_Brodown
    Showcase_Brodown Posts: 919 Member
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    So do the shape-shifting lizard aliens do a paleo lifestyle, or more of a modern diet? What's their body composition like? For some reason PubMed is drawing a blank on this topic. Probably a conspiracy.
  • astartig
    astartig Posts: 549 Member
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    Wow op, you're friends with my mom..

    drives me NUTS
  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,209 Member
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    But MAN, saying that you can eat at a surplus and still lose weight--that is a pretty egregious error and I can't remain silent on something like that.

    In all fairness to her, my understanding is it's theoretically possible to lose weight in a calorie surplus, since the thermic effect of food (TEF) varies for different foods.

    This study showed that the TEF was higher for a whole food meal than a processed one of equal calories:

    http://www.foodandnutritionresearch.net/index.php/fnr/article/view/5144/5755
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    But MAN, saying that you can eat at a surplus and still lose weight--that is a pretty egregious error and I can't remain silent on something like that.

    In all fairness to her, my understanding is it's theoretically possible to lose weight in a calorie surplus, since the thermic effect of food (TEF) varies for different foods.

    This study showed that the TEF was higher for a whole food meal than a processed one of equal calories:

    http://www.foodandnutritionresearch.net/index.php/fnr/article/view/5144/5755

    See table 2, any potential confounders?
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
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    But MAN, saying that you can eat at a surplus and still lose weight--that is a pretty egregious error and I can't remain silent on something like that.

    In all fairness to her, my understanding is it's theoretically possible to lose weight in a calorie surplus, since the thermic effect of food (TEF) varies for different foods.

    This study showed that the TEF was higher for a whole food meal than a processed one of equal calories:

    http://www.foodandnutritionresearch.net/index.php/fnr/article/view/5144/5755

    Okay but TEF is still part of the calories in/calories out equation, so if TEF is greater that makes you no longer in a surplus.

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