Dieting = Craving BAD foods

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

Indeed. And I need to bring something up, and I want you to understand this isn't a criticism or attack... but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds. I would not include you in the portion of MFP that has demonstrated significant long-term success.

Did you ever think to ask why that was? Did it ever occur to you that I could have signed up a long time ago, but never really participated? And only recently have I re-engaged?

See, folks need to look below the surface and investigate or they can end up with completely erroneous conclusions because they made faulty assumptions.

That's fine. It makes no difference to me why you're in the position you're in. I've made no assumptions or determinations about you or your process.

Really? You said "but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds."

That looks like some pretty big assumptions to me. It assumes that I've been accurately reporting, that I've been active for 5 years, that it's an accurate reflection of my goals for the past 5 years. It also is a determination about my progress/results.

Hmmm....

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

Indeed. And I need to bring something up, and I want you to understand this isn't a criticism or attack... but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds. I would not include you in the portion of MFP that has demonstrated significant long-term success.

Did you ever think to ask why that was? Did it ever occur to you that I could have signed up a long time ago, but never really participated? And only recently have I re-engaged?

See, folks need to look below the surface and investigate or they can end up with completely erroneous conclusions because they made faulty assumptions.

That's fine. It makes no difference to me why you're in the position you're in. I've made no assumptions or determinations about you or your process.

Really? You said "but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds."

That looks like some pretty big assumptions to me. It assumes that I've been accurately reporting, that I've been active for 5 years, that it's an accurate reflection of my goals for the past 5 years. It also is a determination about my progress/results.

Hmmm....

The question becomes, why haven't you been accurately reporting? Is it because it's unsustainable to diet the way you've been recommending? Don't you think it's better to take the advice from someone who has made it sustainable, who has reached and maintained goals for the long term? Why would you preach a method if the method you're advocating has yet to have the desired results for you?

I guess we just have very different experiences. And that's okay.

Indeed. And I need to bring something up, and I want you to understand this isn't a criticism or attack... but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds. I would not include you in the portion of MFP that has demonstrated significant long-term success.

Did you ever think to ask why that was? Did it ever occur to you that I could have signed up a long time ago, but never really participated? And only recently have I re-engaged?

See, folks need to look below the surface and investigate or they can end up with completely erroneous conclusions because they made faulty assumptions.

That's fine. It makes no difference to me why you're in the position you're in. I've made no assumptions or determinations about you or your process.

Really? You said "but you've been here 5 years, have a thousand posts, and have lost 12 of your target 27 pounds."

That looks like some pretty big assumptions to me. It assumes that I've been accurately reporting, that I've been active for 5 years, that it's an accurate reflection of my goals for the past 5 years. It also is a determination about my progress/results.

Hmmm....

Right, and for that reason I don't consider you one of the people I'm talking about when I speak of the subset of MFP that have demonstrated long-term success.

How or why you have failed to demonstrate long-term success is out of the scope of what I'm talking about. It doesn't matter to me. If you want to discuss it, we can talk about it.

But I was talking about the people who have demonstrated long-term success on MFP. I have personally noticed certain trends among those people. You may have noticed different trends, and that's fine.

I have noticed different trends, which is why I'd never presume that my experience was representative of ALL MFP users without actually investigating it in some way. To me just seems like an incredible amount of hubris.

If you're craving a meat and cheese pizza, don't make yourself a spinach and feta one.
That's lame.
Either make a healthy meat and cheese pizza on your whole wheat crust, or buy a lean cuisine personal sized pizza. I think they are around 350 cals.

Does anyone else have the problem that when you are trying your best to eat healthier, make better choices, and move more that it's like your body/mind is fighting you?

I feel like I have NO control over what my body craves and wants. I get tired of telling myself that I can't have pizza, hamburgers, french fries, etc and I give in. My husband says it's because I don't have the willpower or the "want to", but I feel defeated EVERYTIME I make a lifestyle change and I don't stick with it.

I've tried the "food swaps" and while some of them are reasonable and delicious, most of them leave me wanting the real thing. Example: I made Spinach and Feta pizza on whole wheat crust instead of Three Meat pizza. While the taste was delicious, I still wanted meat.. and lots of it!

Let yourself have the weekends. I do. Im making progress despite my splurges on the weekend. I crave fried foods like its nobodys business. But Letting myself have saturday and sunday to eat what I want really helps. And besides, just because you mess up one day doesnt mean you dont have tomorrow. Its an evolution process. Slow and steady wins the race. Remember that!

For someone who usually backs up his positions reasonably well, I've never understood why you insist on arguing that your personal observations of the MFP forums are somehow conclusive of which diets work in the long term. The MFP forum is a tiny community in the grand scheme of things and of the people that use MFP, only a small percentage even post on the forums. Who you personally know that's lost significant weight is almost certainly an even smaller community. In terms of overall success rates, any personally observed patterns in such tiny communities are essentially meaningless.

If you hang out in paleo circles, you'll find plenty of "paleo success stories." That certainly doesn't mean paleo is the end-all be-all diet or the key to long-term success (although I'm sure there are some paleo people following the same faulty logic that believe it is). The same goes for keto circles, where you can find people who have been on keto for 5 or even 10 years and are in phenomenal shape. However, all that means is some people were able to use these diets as tools to improve their health and body fat levels; it says absolutely nothing about the long-term success or failure other people will have on these diets.

There are studies out there on long-term success in weight loss and some have highlighted certain characteristics successful people tend to have. However, none of them suggest a silver bullet when it comes to success and, frankly, all of them are pretty consistent when it comes to painting a bleak picture of long-term success statistics. If IIFYM really is that silver bullet that leads to success, I'm sort of surprised that no one in the medical community has discovered that in these studies.

It'd be one thing to suggest your personal experiences indicate that IIFYM is at least one option for long-term success, as it's been shown to work at least for some people. But suggesting that your limited personal observations and your lack of knowledge about people having long-term success on other diets somehow means that IIFYM in and of itself has a higher chance of long-term success than other diets? You're drawing conclusions the data simply doesn't support. It's akin to saying "all my friends and the guys on the Ford forums drive Fords and rarely have maintenance problems, thus you should buy a Ford if you want a problem-free car."

Try 5:2 diet for two days you have 500 cals the other 5 days eat what you want. Your body starts to change it's cravings itself and knowing you can have whatever the following day isn't as hard as leaving it out forever. In the early days you will go to bed craving something and when you wake up you won't want it. I have lost 2 1/2 stone in a year and believe me have eaten two full size pizzas on a pub night.

I have noticed different trends, which is why I'd never presume that my experience was representative of ALL MFP users without actually investigating it in some way. To me just seems like an incredible amount of hubris.

What trends have you noticed? I'm genuinely curious.

And BTW, I've been very very clear that I'm not speaking of "ALL MFP users." I'm speaking very specifically about a specific subset of MFP users: those who have demonstrated consistent long-term success.

Either way, I wouldn't suspect to know about ALL the MFP users that have demonstrated consistent long-term success.

Neither would I, which is why I didn't make any statements about ALL of them. I spoke about a trend I observed among many of them.

You keep insisting I'm talking about "All" of something. I'm not, and I've reiterated that point repeatedly. I think the only reason you could be consistently failing to understand it is because you have decided not to understand it.

Dude, Jonny you said: "It's not just coincidence that they represent a large portion of the members who have found long-term success" , "If someone compiled numbers, however, I'm fairly confident that you'd see a distinct trend" and "Yes, it is based on my personal observation that a large portion of MFP members who have found long-term success follow an IIFYM style."

In order to know whether they represent a large portion or there is a "distinct trend", you have to have a reference point about what is the whole -- to know whether it's 8% or 80%, you have to have an understanding of the total population or the representation of the trend you're describing.

For someone who usually backs up his positions reasonably well, I've never understood why you insist on arguing that your personal observations of the MFP forums are somehow conclusive of which diets work in the long term. The MFP forum is a tiny community in the grand scheme of things and of the people that use MFP, only a small percentage even post on the forums. Who you personally know that's lost significant weight is almost certainly an even smaller community. In terms of overall success rates, any personally observed patterns in such tiny communities are essentially meaningless.

If you hang out in paleo circles, you'll find plenty of "paleo success stories." That certainly doesn't mean paleo is the end-all be-all diet or the key to long-term success (although I'm sure there are some paleo people following the same faulty logic that believe it is). The same goes for keto circles, where you can find people who have been on keto for 5 or even 10 years and are in phenomenal shape. However, all that means is some people were able to use these diets as tools to improve their health and body fat levels; it says absolutely nothing about the long-term success or failure other people will have on these diets.

There are studies out there on long-term success in weight loss and some have highlighted certain characteristics successful people tend to have. However, none of them suggest a silver bullet when it comes to success and, frankly, all of them are pretty consistent when it comes to painting a bleak picture of long-term success statistics. If IIFYM really is that silver bullet that leads to success, I'm sort of surprised that no one in the medical community has discovered that in these studies.

It'd be one thing to suggest your personal experiences indicate that IIFYM is at least one option for long-term success, as it's been shown to work at least for some people. But suggesting that your limited personal observations and your lack of knowledge about people having long-term success on other diets somehow means that IIFYM in and of itself has a higher chance of long-term success than other diets? You're drawing conclusions the data simply doesn't support. It's akin to saying "all my friends and the guys on the Ford forums drive Fords and rarely have maintenance problems, thus you should buy a Ford if you want a problem-free car."

Thank you.

For someone who usually backs up his positions reasonably well, I've never understood why you insist on arguing that your personal observations of the MFP forums are somehow conclusive of which diets work in the long term. The MFP forum is a tiny community in the grand scheme of things and of the people that use MFP, only a small percentage even post on the forums. Who you personally know that's lost significant weight is almost certainly an even smaller community. In terms of overall success rates, any personally observed patterns in such tiny communities are essentially meaningless.

If you hang out in paleo circles, you'll find plenty of "paleo success stories." That certainly doesn't mean paleo is the end-all be-all diet or the key to long-term success (although I'm sure there are some paleo people following the same faulty logic that believe it is). The same goes for keto circles, where you can find people who have been on keto for 5 or even 10 years and are in phenomenal shape. However, all that means is some people were able to use these diets as tools to improve their health and body fat levels; it says absolutely nothing about the long-term success or failure other people will have on these diets.

There are studies out there on long-term success in weight loss and some have highlighted certain characteristics successful people tend to have. However, none of them suggest a silver bullet when it comes to success and, frankly, all of them are pretty consistent when it comes to painting a bleak picture of long-term success statistics. If IIFYM really is that silver bullet that leads to success, I'm sort of surprised that no one in the medical community has discovered that in these studies.

It'd be one thing to suggest your personal experiences indicate that IIFYM is at least one option for long-term success, as it's been shown to work at least for some people. But suggesting that your limited personal observations and your lack of knowledge about people having long-term success on other diets somehow means that IIFYM in and of itself has a higher chance of long-term success than other diets? You're drawing conclusions the data simply doesn't support. It's akin to saying "all my friends and the guys on the Ford forums drive Fords and rarely have maintenance problems, thus you should buy a Ford if you want a problem-free car."

Great post!

But most people arguing againsy fad diets are arguing against the claim that one has to adhere to a certain philosophy in order to lose weight or be healthy.

That's not been my experience. Most of which I've seen of those arguing against fad diets are arguing it in direct opposition to IIFYM. That somehow IIFYM is the end-all-be-all. Very few that I've seen this with have said, "hey, it's a different but still legitimate path to the same goal." (though some have) Now, granted, my experience with this is limited mostly to Paleo/Primal and keto threads and those may get worse treatment than other plans out there -- south beach, weight watchers, etc.

Many people have come on there and say how it's not necessary and how moderation is best. I agree with that statement as a general rule of it not being necessary, I just disagree with that the idea that it may not be best for some people or isn't a legitimate path to success as well.

For someone who usually backs up his positions reasonably well, I've never understood why you insist on arguing that your personal observations of the MFP forums are somehow conclusive of which diets work in the long term. The MFP forum is a tiny community in the grand scheme of things and of the people that use MFP, only a small percentage even post on the forums. Who you personally know that's lost significant weight is almost certainly an even smaller community. In terms of overall success rates, any personally observed patterns in such tiny communities are essentially meaningless.

If you hang out in paleo circles, you'll find plenty of "paleo success stories." That certainly doesn't mean paleo is the end-all be-all diet or the key to long-term success (although I'm sure there are some paleo people following the same faulty logic that believe it is). The same goes for keto circles, where you can find people who have been on keto for 5 or even 10 years and are in phenomenal shape. However, all that means is some people were able to use these diets as tools to improve their health and body fat levels; it says absolutely nothing about the long-term success or failure other people will have on these diets.

There are studies out there on long-term success in weight loss and some have highlighted certain characteristics successful people tend to have. However, none of them suggest a silver bullet when it comes to success and, frankly, all of them are pretty consistent when it comes to painting a bleak picture of long-term success statistics. If IIFYM really is that silver bullet that leads to success, I'm sort of surprised that no one in the medical community has discovered that in these studies.

It'd be one thing to suggest your personal experiences indicate that IIFYM is at least one option for long-term success, as it's been shown to work at least for some people. But suggesting that your limited personal observations and your lack of knowledge about people having long-term success on other diets somehow means that IIFYM in and of itself has a higher chance of long-term success than other diets? You're drawing conclusions the data simply doesn't support. It's akin to saying "all my friends and the guys on the Ford forums drive Fords and rarely have maintenance problems, thus you should buy a Ford if you want a problem-free car."

Great post!

But most people arguing againsy fad diets are arguing against the claim that one has to adhere to a certain philosophy in order to lose weight or be healthy.

That's not been my experience. Most of which I've seen of those arguing against fad diets are arguing it in direct opposition to IIFYM. That somehow IIFYM is the end-all-be-all. Very few that I've seen this with have said, "hey, it's a different but still legitimate path to the same goal." (though some have) Now, granted, my experience with this is limited mostly to Paleo/Primal and keto threads and those may get worse treatment than other plans out there -- south beach, weight watchers, etc.

Many people have come on there and say how it's not necessary and how moderation is best. I agree with that statement as a general rule of it not being necessary, I just disagree with that the idea that it may not be best for some people or isn't a legitimate path to success as well.

I have often said that the most important part of your eating philosophy is that it is sustainable for you. And when I go into keto/Paleo threads, I just try to set the record straight that one is not necessarily better than the other. "You have to cut carbs to lose weight!" isnt a philosophy as much as it is an ignorant statement without context, so I usually try to provide the context along with my personal feelings. Which is mainly that moderation is ideal.

And the people that cry "Just do IIFYM!!!" without context can be equally annoying.

Agreed. I just personally haven't seen any Paleo/Primal people make those claims in threads. Not saying they don't exist, but I've personally never seen them.

Great tips on this thread so far! I agree with what lots of others said - eat those things that come up as cravings, just in smaller amounts. Deprivation & dieting = not fun. Eat well most of the time and don't feel bad when you indulge a little bit here and there. Just try not to swing from dieting to bingeing and you'll be working towards your goals, no problem.

For someone who usually backs up his positions reasonably well, I've never understood why you insist on arguing that your personal observations of the MFP forums are somehow conclusive of which diets work in the long term. The MFP forum is a tiny community in the grand scheme of things and of the people that use MFP, only a small percentage even post on the forums. Who you personally know that's lost significant weight is almost certainly an even smaller community. In terms of overall success rates, any personally observed patterns in such tiny communities are essentially meaningless.

If you hang out in paleo circles, you'll find plenty of "paleo success stories." That certainly doesn't mean paleo is the end-all be-all diet or the key to long-term success (although I'm sure there are some paleo people following the same faulty logic that believe it is). The same goes for keto circles, where you can find people who have been on keto for 5 or even 10 years and are in phenomenal shape. However, all that means is some people were able to use these diets as tools to improve their health and body fat levels; it says absolutely nothing about the long-term success or failure other people will have on these diets.

There are studies out there on long-term success in weight loss and some have highlighted certain characteristics successful people tend to have. However, none of them suggest a silver bullet when it comes to success and, frankly, all of them are pretty consistent when it comes to painting a bleak picture of long-term success statistics. If IIFYM really is that silver bullet that leads to success, I'm sort of surprised that no one in the medical community has discovered that in these studies.

It'd be one thing to suggest your personal experiences indicate that IIFYM is at least one option for long-term success, as it's been shown to work at least for some people. But suggesting that your limited personal observations and your lack of knowledge about people having long-term success on other diets somehow means that IIFYM in and of itself has a higher chance of long-term success than other diets? You're drawing conclusions the data simply doesn't support. It's akin to saying "all my friends and the guys on the Ford forums drive Fords and rarely have maintenance problems, thus you should buy a Ford if you want a problem-free car."

Great post!

But most people arguing againsy fad diets are arguing against the claim that one has to adhere to a certain philosophy in order to lose weight or be healthy.

That's not been my experience. Most of which I've seen of those arguing against fad diets are arguing it in direct opposition to IIFYM. That somehow IIFYM is the end-all-be-all. Very few that I've seen this with have said, "hey, it's a different but still legitimate path to the same goal." (though some have) Now, granted, my experience with this is limited mostly to Paleo/Primal and keto threads and those may get worse treatment than other plans out there -- south beach, weight watchers, etc.

Many people have come on there and say how it's not necessary and how moderation is best. I agree with that statement as a general rule of it not being necessary, I just disagree with that the idea that it may not be best for some people or isn't a legitimate path to success as well.

I have often said that the most important part of your eating philosophy is that it is sustainable for you. And when I go into keto/Paleo threads, I just try to set the record straight that one is not necessarily better than the other. "You have to cut carbs to lose weight!" isnt a philosophy as much as it is an ignorant statement without context, so I usually try to provide the context along with my personal feelings. Which is mainly that moderation is ideal.

And the people that cry "Just do IIFYM!!!" without context can be equally annoying.

Agreed. I just personally haven't seen any Paleo/Primal people make those claims in threads. Not saying they don't exist, but I've personally never seen them.

I have seen countless instances of Paleo pushers claiming it is how you lose weight and the healthiest.