Fork over Knives
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I find it difficult to understand why people want to change their lives based on films made by people with a domestic animal extinction agenda. It boggles the mind.0
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I don't believe that eating meat will cause cancer.
Prove it. Unbiased science has yet to do so.0 -
You know what else has been proven to cause cancer? Take a look:
Automobiles
Exhaust
Home cleaning products including laundry detergent
Emotional distress / stress
Nail polish remover
Hair coloring chemicals
Colognes and perfumes
Radiation (the same radiation they TREAT cancer with)
Certain Plastic food or water containers
LACK OF EXERCISE / BEING OVERFAT
And the list goes on, and on, and on...
Sorry, I'm not going to live my life trying to avoid things that "have been proven to cause" cancer... If I get it I get it, I'm gonna live my life healthy and happy and stress-free and frankly, I don't care.
Some of these put you at greater risk than others. You can choose to be stupid about it or you can look at the evidence.
Smoking causes cancer - we all know that - but we don't go shouting 'WELL ALL THESE OTHER THINGS DO TO' and ignore it from there because we know effect sizes matter. Extended exposure to hair colouring chemicals (depending on how you dye your hair) probably can cause alterations in cell health causing a minutely increased risk of cancer - it won't increase it much. Being obese and eating high amounts of meat isn't comparable to that because the evidence that these two factors are detrimental to our health is so compelling. Sure, you may be obese and eat five portions of meat every day and never get cancer but if you do get bowel cancer you are far more likely to be obese or/and a meat-eater than fit or/and vegan.0 -
I stop paying attention the minute someone says "X will give you cancer".0
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I don't believe that eating meat will cause cancer.
Prove it. Unbiased science has yet to do so.
Seriously, you want to make THAT claim, you'd better post the link to a publication from a peer reviewed journal to back it up. Don't worry, we'll wait.0 -
Sure, you may be obese and eat five portions of meat every day and never get cancer but if you do get bowel cancer you are far more likely to be obese or/and a meat-eater than fit or/and vegan.
The science please? Not from PCRM or related sources?0 -
I don't believe that eating meat will cause cancer.
Prove it. Unbiased science has yet to do so.
Sorry I have no intention on doing your google search for you but there are some good, peer-reviewed studies looking at lifestyle factors associated with different illness that you can find on google scholar or on PubMed. The China Study is the most well-known but methodologically poor. There are a number of studies out there that look at large samples of people affected by cancer, dementia etc and compare them to healthy population in terms of lifestyle factors. I suggest you do your own literature research and decide for yourself what evidence you want to believe in. I am a scientist and I certainly have made my mind - I don't work in nutrition but I can evaluate the quality or research articles and having done so I don't agree that these studies are biased.
Having a serving of meat every two days probably doesn't increase your risk of these disease on any level whatsoever but eating meat on every meal certainly does.0 -
I'd love to spend the whole day posting you links but I am sure we are all more than capable of finding these papers if we are interested and right now I don't have the time to compensate for your laziness.0
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I'd love to spend the whole day posting you links but I am sure we are all more than capable of finding these papers if we are interested and right now I don't have the time to compensate for your laziness.
*shrugs* I already know what's there. However, your ad hominem attack tells me all I need to know.
For your edification. Please, if you're looking at Forks over Knives for the first time, read a bit more before making life-changing decisions.
http://anthonycolpo.com/forks-over-knives-the-latest-vegan-nonsense-dissected-debunked-and-destroyed/
http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TboCgUmgQYQ0 -
I don't believe that eating meat will cause cancer.
Prove it. Unbiased science has yet to do so.
Sorry I have no intention on doing your google search for you but there are some good, peer-reviewed studies looking at lifestyle factors associated with different illness that you can find on google scholar or on PubMed. The China Study is the most well-known but methodologically poor. There are a number of studies out there that look at large samples of people affected by cancer, dementia etc and compare them to healthy population in terms of lifestyle factors. I suggest you do your own literature research and decide for yourself what evidence you want to believe in. I am a scientist and I certainly have made my mind - I don't work in nutrition but I can evaluate the quality or research articles and having done so I don't agree that these studies are biased.
Having a serving of meat every two days probably doesn't increase your risk of these disease on any level whatsoever but eating meat on every meal certainly does.
#1 Correlation =/= causation
#2 the number of confounding variables in studies like these means that it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to isolate what is actually going on and attempting to extrapolate broad scale dietary advice from them is inadvisable.
#3 You can't produce an article that CONCLUSIVELY demonstrates a link between meat consumption and these health issues because they don't exist. The best they can say is meat consumption along with a list of 20 something other variables all combined together seems to have a slight tendency to increase certain health risks within the population. Sorry, but that's not good enough, because as soon as the do the isolated study that ONLY looks at meat consumption within an otherwise healthy population, oh look, the detrimental health effects disappear. Plenty of people here know how to use google scholar.0 -
I became a vegetarian after watching it. My body functions better not eating meat. I had my gallbladder out 8 years ago and my body just functions way differently. I am not anti-meat and could care less how other people eat. Everyone is different and what works for some doesn't work for all.0
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but these are not scientific peer reviewed journals.
the beauty of science is, if a theory was previously proven wrong, they correct it. unlike.people.very religious about their.diet, they almost resemble the catholic.church in the dark ages.
the same.goes.for.non vegan extremistsI'd love to spend the whole day posting you links but I am sure we are all more than capable of finding these papers if we are interested and right now I don't have the time to compensate for your laziness.
*shrugs* I already know what's there. However, your ad hominem attack tells me all I need to know.
For your edification. Please, if you're looking at Forks over Knives for the first time, read a bit more before making life-changing decisions.
http://anthonycolpo.com/forks-over-knives-the-latest-vegan-nonsense-dissected-debunked-and-destroyed/
http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TboCgUmgQYQ0 -
I don't believe that eating meat will cause cancer.
I think this is the first time that I have seen Neil deGrasse Tyson's quote used to substantiate a claim of non-science. Not a lot of things make me ragey on the internet. This, however, definitely did. Burden of proof is on the claimant, i.e. you, because it is so outlandish that you must have access to sources that we clearly don't.0 -
I don't believe that eating meat will cause cancer.
I think this is the first time that I have seen Neil deGrasse Tyson's quote used to substantiate a claim of non-science. Not a lot of things make me ragey on the internet. This, however, definitely did. Burden of proof is on the claimant, i.e. you, because it is so outlandish that you must have access to sources that we clearly don't.
LOL! I'm with you there, I nearly punched my computer, Neil is a hero of mine and I don't use that term lightly.0 -
If I don't go vegan I'll die, that's the basic premise of the film. Correct?
I'll pass on the propaganda and have a double cheeseburger instead.
+10 -
I watched fork over knives on netflix last night. Anybody else watch it and what are you're thoughts? I'll NEVER be a vegetarian........I would keep meat in my diet but the correct serving size (such as 4, 6, and 8 oz). Now regarding protein, they said 20% of animal based protein which includes dairy based protein in your diet can lead to cancer but not vegetable based protein. This concerns me because the protein sources I'm using is all meat and dairy based (mainly dairy). Also with the addition of eating meat leads to cardiovascular issues since meat has high levels of cholesterol. Again I'll NEVER turn vegan but I hopefully these levels remain low with the serving sizes being correct and not your typical American 1 lb burgers everyday.....
What do you guys think?
I watched Forks Over Knives in one of my nutrition courses and immediately wanted to go vegetarian based on the documentary. Unfortunately, due to insulin resistance and hypoglycemia, I find it very difficult to get the protein I need to keep my blood sugar stable without animal-based protein. I also have Crohn's disease which limits my food choices. I can't eat many veggies without ending up with severe stomach issues. I can't eat many beans either. I'm lactose intolerant- can't handle milk at all but can handle cheese and greek yogurt in SMALL amounts. So getting my protein from other sources would be difficult.
At this point in my life, as much as I wish I could go vegetarian, it's simply not an option for me. I think it's all about the choices you make when it comes to animal-based protein. Grilled chicken or turkey is a better option compared to red meat like steak or ground beef. I eat a lot of chicken but limit the amount of red meat I consume. I eat salmon frequently as well. I do not eat hot dogs at all. I have bacon and sausage occasionally, although I could live without it.
American's over consume animal-based protein. There ARE studies that link animal-based protein to heart disease, diabetes, cancer, high cholesterol, etc. Anyone who wants to argue this simply hasn't done their research and has their head too far up their *kitten*. They don't want to believe that what they eat has the potential to kill them, but science is science. Animal-based protein raise IGF-1 levels which promotes cancer growth. As you get older, you want to slow down the amount of cell growth, not accelerate it.0 -
but these are not scientific peer reviewed journals.
the beauty of science is, if a theory was previously proven wrong, they correct it. unlike.people.very religious about their.diet, they almost resemble the catholic.church in the dark ages.
the same.goes.for.non vegan extremistsI'd love to spend the whole day posting you links but I am sure we are all more than capable of finding these papers if we are interested and right now I don't have the time to compensate for your laziness.
*shrugs* I already know what's there. However, your ad hominem attack tells me all I need to know.
For your edification. Please, if you're looking at Forks over Knives for the first time, read a bit more before making life-changing decisions.
http://anthonycolpo.com/forks-over-knives-the-latest-vegan-nonsense-dissected-debunked-and-destroyed/
http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TboCgUmgQYQ
*shrugs* You'll find that the SOS link is written by a raw foodist who carefully explains her science. Unless, of course, you don't want to be bothered reading it. It wouldn't matter what I posted or what anyone posted, since you're uninterested in anything that might counter your position. (btw, nothing produced by the PCRM or their related members counts as "science," either.)0 -
but these are not scientific peer reviewed journals.
the beauty of science is, if a theory was previously proven wrong, they correct it. unlike.people.very religious about their.diet, they almost resemble the catholic.church in the dark ages.
the same.goes.for.non vegan extremistsI'd love to spend the whole day posting you links but I am sure we are all more than capable of finding these papers if we are interested and right now I don't have the time to compensate for your laziness.
*shrugs* I already know what's there. However, your ad hominem attack tells me all I need to know.
For your edification. Please, if you're looking at Forks over Knives for the first time, read a bit more before making life-changing decisions.
http://anthonycolpo.com/forks-over-knives-the-latest-vegan-nonsense-dissected-debunked-and-destroyed/
http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TboCgUmgQYQ
LOL, non-vegan extremists, so asking for proof of a claim makes someone extremist? Those aren't scholarly articles, but as the person who made the original claim refused to provide scholarly articles in the first place, I fail to see how one gen-pop overview site is more credible than another. There are certainly plenty on both sides of the isle.0 -
Sorry to say this but vegetarians get and die from cancer and heart attacks too...so what difference does it make, you must watch you intake of certain foods no matter what sort of diet you choose.0
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