Fork over Knives

I don't believe that eating meat will cause cancer.

Well the good thing about science is that it's true whether you believe it or not. High meat consumption DOES increase your risk of cancer, heart-disease, dementia, bowel problems, type II diabetes, obesity and so on. You can keep meat in your diet and still be healthy but you can also be a smoker and be healthy. These are statistically possible but why increase your risk? I am not saying 'don't eat meat at all or you'll die' - but I am saying - don't eat meat daily or you significantly increase your risk of developing some of the top health problems today.

Prove it. Unbiased science has yet to do so.

Sorry I have no intention on doing your google search for you but there are some good, peer-reviewed studies looking at lifestyle factors associated with different illness that you can find on google scholar or on PubMed. The China Study is the most well-known but methodologically poor. There are a number of studies out there that look at large samples of people affected by cancer, dementia etc and compare them to healthy population in terms of lifestyle factors. I suggest you do your own literature research and decide for yourself what evidence you want to believe in. I am a scientist and I certainly have made my mind - I don't work in nutrition but I can evaluate the quality or research articles and having done so I don't agree that these studies are biased.


Having a serving of meat every two days probably doesn't increase your risk of these disease on any level whatsoever but eating meat on every meal certainly does.

#1 Correlation =/= causation

#2 the number of confounding variables in studies like these means that it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to isolate what is actually going on and attempting to extrapolate broad scale dietary advice from them is inadvisable.

#3 You can't produce an article that CONCLUSIVELY demonstrates a link between meat consumption and these health issues because they don't exist. The best they can say is meat consumption along with a list of 20 something other variables all combined together seems to have a slight tendency to increase certain health risks within the population. Sorry, but that's not good enough, because as soon as the do the isolated study that ONLY looks at meat consumption within an otherwise healthy population, oh look, the detrimental health effects disappear. Plenty of people here know how to use google scholar.

but these are not scientific peer reviewed journals.

the beauty of science is, if a theory was previously proven wrong, they correct it. unlike.people.very religious about their.diet, they almost resemble the catholic.church in the dark ages.

the same.goes.for.non vegan extremists

I'd love to spend the whole day posting you links but I am sure we are all more than capable of finding these papers if we are interested and right now I don't have the time to compensate for your laziness.

*shrugs* I already know what's there. However, your ad hominem attack tells me all I need to know.

For your edification. Please, if you're looking at Forks over Knives for the first time, read a bit more before making life-changing decisions.

http://anthonycolpo.com/forks-over-knives-the-latest-vegan-nonsense-dissected-debunked-and-destroyed/

http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TboCgUmgQYQ

I don't believe that eating meat will cause cancer.

Well the good thing about science is that it's true whether you believe it or not. High meat consumption DOES increase your risk of cancer, heart-disease, dementia, bowel problems, type II diabetes, obesity and so on. You can keep meat in your diet and still be healthy but you can also be a smoker and be healthy. These are statistically possible but why increase your risk? I am not saying 'don't eat meat at all or you'll die' - but I am saying - don't eat meat daily or you significantly increase your risk of developing some of the top health problems today.

I think this is the first time that I have seen Neil deGrasse Tyson's quote used to substantiate a claim of non-science. Not a lot of things make me ragey on the internet. This, however, definitely did. Burden of proof is on the claimant, i.e. you, because it is so outlandish that you must have access to sources that we clearly don't.

LOL! I'm with you there, I nearly punched my computer, Neil is a hero of mine and I don't use that term lightly.

I watched fork over knives on netflix last night. Anybody else watch it and what are you're thoughts? I'll NEVER be a vegetarian........I would keep meat in my diet but the correct serving size (such as 4, 6, and 8 oz). Now regarding protein, they said 20% of animal based protein which includes dairy based protein in your diet can lead to cancer but not vegetable based protein. This concerns me because the protein sources I'm using is all meat and dairy based (mainly dairy). Also with the addition of eating meat leads to cardiovascular issues since meat has high levels of cholesterol. Again I'll NEVER turn vegan but I hopefully these levels remain low with the serving sizes being correct and not your typical American 1 lb burgers everyday.....

What do you guys think?

I watched Forks Over Knives in one of my nutrition courses and immediately wanted to go vegetarian based on the documentary. Unfortunately, due to insulin resistance and hypoglycemia, I find it very difficult to get the protein I need to keep my blood sugar stable without animal-based protein. I also have Crohn's disease which limits my food choices. I can't eat many veggies without ending up with severe stomach issues. I can't eat many beans either. I'm lactose intolerant- can't handle milk at all but can handle cheese and greek yogurt in SMALL amounts. So getting my protein from other sources would be difficult.

At this point in my life, as much as I wish I could go vegetarian, it's simply not an option for me. I think it's all about the choices you make when it comes to animal-based protein. Grilled chicken or turkey is a better option compared to red meat like steak or ground beef. I eat a lot of chicken but limit the amount of red meat I consume. I eat salmon frequently as well. I do not eat hot dogs at all. I have bacon and sausage occasionally, although I could live without it.

American's over consume animal-based protein. There ARE studies that link animal-based protein to heart disease, diabetes, cancer, high cholesterol, etc. Anyone who wants to argue this simply hasn't done their research and has their head too far up their *kitten*. They don't want to believe that what they eat has the potential to kill them, but science is science. Animal-based protein raise IGF-1 levels which promotes cancer growth. As you get older, you want to slow down the amount of cell growth, not accelerate it.

but these are not scientific peer reviewed journals.

the beauty of science is, if a theory was previously proven wrong, they correct it. unlike.people.very religious about their.diet, they almost resemble the catholic.church in the dark ages.

the same.goes.for.non vegan extremists

I'd love to spend the whole day posting you links but I am sure we are all more than capable of finding these papers if we are interested and right now I don't have the time to compensate for your laziness.

*shrugs* I already know what's there. However, your ad hominem attack tells me all I need to know.

For your edification. Please, if you're looking at Forks over Knives for the first time, read a bit more before making life-changing decisions.

http://anthonycolpo.com/forks-over-knives-the-latest-vegan-nonsense-dissected-debunked-and-destroyed/

http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TboCgUmgQYQ

LOL, non-vegan extremists, so asking for proof of a claim makes someone extremist? Those aren't scholarly articles, but as the person who made the original claim refused to provide scholarly articles in the first place, I fail to see how one gen-pop overview site is more credible than another. There are certainly plenty on both sides of the isle.

LOL, non-vegan extremists, so asking for proof of a claim makes someone extremist? Those aren't scholarly articles, but as the person who made the original claim refused to provide scholarly articles in the first place, I fail to see how one gen-pop overview site is more credible than another. There are certainly plenty on both sides of the isle.

Okay, I get what everyone is saying, but the Raw Foods link is not a gen-pop overview. PLEASE look at it before you discredit it.

LOL, non-vegan extremists, so asking for proof of a claim makes someone extremist? Those aren't scholarly articles, but as the person who made the original claim refused to provide scholarly articles in the first place, I fail to see how one gen-pop overview site is more credible than another. There are certainly plenty on both sides of the isle.

Okay, I get what everyone is saying, but the Raw Foods link is not a gen-pop overview. PLEASE look at it before you discredit it.

I agree with you, just trying to be as fair as possible.

I do not do well without meat. I went both vegetarian and vegan with a very balanced diet. Omnivore works best for my energy levels, muscle gain and athletic performance. The vegetarians/vegans I know are no where near as strong, fast, flexible or energetic as I am. That said, I'm sure there is a vegan/vegetarian out there that can out-do me in all of these things. In general, however, I am not impressed with what I've seen.

I'm not giving up bacon, tacos, hamburgers, and Black Forest ham in case they *might* cause me to get cancer. My parents having had cancer already adds 2 to Save vs. Death.

I agree with forks over knives that we shouldn't be eating meat or dairy that's why I am going vegan.

Zombie thread

Lindaj44 wrote: »

I agree with forks over knives that we shouldn't be eating meat or dairy that's why I am going vegan.

I'm glad you felt strongly enough about your newfound convictions to dig up a two-year-old thread and let everyone know.