Why do people seem to bash "healthy"eating?
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Who does that?? I don't see many people doing that. I see a lot of people say "i don't eat it because XYZ" but not, I don't so no one else should.
I personally think excess added sugar is bad for you. If you want to eat it, more power to you. But whenever I mention that people feel the need to "correct" my thinking and tell me how wrong i am. Or attempt to convince me that nothing is bad, i can eat it in moderation. didn't ask for your opinion on my diet. I know myself and my body. I might suggest it to someone, if they ask. But they do what they want with it.0 -
That's not really it. People can eat whatever they want. The problem comes in when someone eating a specific diet comes in and tells a poster "YOU MUST EAT THIS WAY, YOU CAN'T EAT THAT FOOD, I DON'T EAT IT, THEREFORE NOBODY ELSE SHOULD!" It's a trap that people who adhere to specific exclusionary diets tend to fall into. They eat a certain way, and suddenly insist that it's the ONLY way anyone else can eat. In all honesty, what you eat is 100% personal preference. There's no right or wrong answer. And that's where the "[insert demonized food category here] crowd" goes off the rails.Slowly I am realizing that's it's not so much the diet itself, but the labeling of the diet.. saying you eat healthy, will get no backlash, but when you label it, people come out in mass to "correct" your thinking or to request you explain in detail why you eat that way.
I'm pretty sure most of us on most diets, practice moderation. Some just don't eat certain foods or food types for whatever reason they deem fit. That just doesn't sit well with some people.
You realize the exact same situation plays out with IIFYM criticizing people on "exclusionary" diets for precisely the same reasons (i.e., "IIFYM works for me, therefore it necessarily works best for everyone else!") nearly daily on these forums? It's practically guaranteed that any thread along the lines of "Looking for more Paleo friends" will have someone telling them they're wrong for doing Paleo and why IIFYM is better, some doing so in a nasty fashion (e.g., "See you back here in a few months once you fail your exclusionary diet" and so on). It's the exact same logical fallacy you're saying exclusionary dieters fall victim to - and I agree many do - but they aren't the only ones.
Ultimately I agree though - what you eat is 100% personal preference and anyone thinking they have the "right" answer for someone/everyone else is just delusional.0 -
LOL
I actually use those labels to help find new recipes- which is kind of fun.
Googling easy paleo is a nice way to get simple chicken (or any meat) based dish- or some cool variations.
so that is a big perk- same with veggie stuff- like looking up cool new twists on different food.
Ha! I thought I was the only one. If anyone takes a look at my search history I would be labeled a Paleo low carb low fat vegetarian0 -
I've been going through lots of posts, and I see this very often: "It doesn't matter what you eat, losing weight is a matter of taking in fewer calories than you use" or "If it fits your macros, then all is fine". Isn't losing weight a part of getting healthy (or healthier) for most people? If that assumption is true (and after reading some of these posts, I'm not sure it is), then why does everyone say it is OK to eat all the processed foods that are in the American diet and has lead us, as a nation, to be the fattest industrialized nation on earth? And we know obesity contributes to diabetes, heart disease, stroke....not exactly what I would call healthy.
I'm not advocating not having a treat if you want it (this from someone who had some chocolate ice cream last night). But I don't see how eating fast foods and processed foods in the quantities offered out there can possibly be healthy. And so many people on MFP don't just say it is OK, but seem to encourage their consumption.
Just wondering.....
I didn't read all of the comments here so I'm sure this has already been said to death.
IRL I know a lot of people who approach weight loss from the standpoint of what foods they feel they need to cut out. They either do "challenges" of cutting out one or more foods, find success during the challenge and re-gain the wait after; or they cut out one or more foods altogether only to binge-eat to sickness or exhaustion when there's a one-day free pass which leads guilt and "falling off the wagon."
The problem is that restricting certain foods does not work for a lot of people. Works for some, but I have personally seen more failure than success. And I have done challenges and restrictions only to "fall of the wagon."
I don't think people are bashing so much as discrediting statements like yours bolded above. We're the fattest nation because we eat too much, simple as that. It's not because a food is processed or not processed. Demonizing food leads to those food challenges or restrictions that bring failure to so many people. The newbie comes to MFP and starts reading boards looking for advice, and sees all of these posts about sugar addiction and gluten is bad and don't eat this or that. If those ideas weren't constantly being challenged, the newbie would stop eating ____ to lose weight, binge or relapse, feel guilty about doing so, and wonder why they don't have it in them to "eat healthy" and live an endless cycle of nonsense. Instead, the newbie can say, hey there's a way I can still enjoy the foods I like AND lose weight! Awesome!
One of the women I graduated from college with is repeatedly losing the same 10-20 pounds every 2-6 months; today, she is starting with another one of her stints. This is how it is going to go: 1) Announce on Facebook that she has 10 pounds to lose; 2) Post pictures and/or statuses referencing her eating, which is inevitably baked chicken breasts, salads, other vegetables, etc. 3) Complain about how much she wants BWW or Applebee's or [insert food here] for the next 2-4 weeks while assuring people that it's worth it; 4) Hit goal weight and get admiration from her friends about how great she looks and how she did such a great job sticking with her plan; 5) Check in on Facebook at Red Robin or BWW or Applebee's and how the food there is sooooooo good! Some time will pass and then rinse and repeat. It's almost like clockwork.
She once asked me how I had lost the weight. I responded with calorie counting and running. I never received a response.
I do know that she correlates healthy and "clean" eating with weight loss and eating other things (she doesn't have a term for it, at least not on Facebook) with weight gain because she's in these cycles of losing weight while eating "clean" and gaining it back when she isn't paying attention. It's these kinds of attitudes that I find the "moderation crew" trying to dispute, not that healthy eating is bad.0 -
I like this phrase "Everytime you eat you are either feeding disease or preventing it." I think that's good food for thought. I remind myself of this when I want something processed and relatively unhealthy.
Any excellent point of reference :drinker:
And you called tracking calories prone to developing an unhealthy relationship with food??? IMO, the false dichotomy of this statement is *far* more likely to be damaging than keeping a food log.
(ETA: And I'm still fascinated by how so many of the most vocal proponents of a "clean" eating label have their food diaries private. Why not share an example of your optimal way of eating with everyone else so they can benefit from your example? Oh, and my food diary is still public...like it was when I did a year of eating strict paleo in 2012 (and before and after then when I ate other foods). And yeah, I was recently publicly called out for the 19g of Hershey's syrup in my protein shakes as obviously being damaging to my health by one of the "clean eaters". *shrug*)
I have nothing against keeping a food log. I merely voiced my opinion that long term calorie counting could result in an unhealthy relationship with food. I'm not alone in that viewpoint and I am entitled to my opinion.
My diary is locked because I don't feel a need to justify my food choices nor do I need help with making my food choices. My food diary would be of little interest or help to you or anyone but me. Many of the entries are for home cooked dishes using my own recipes, some with names that give no hint to their ingredients and with nutritional values calculated (software) then entered manually.
You used the word optimal, not I. My diet choice is my choice period and no one's business. It's too bad someone called you out on your food choice. That's the risk you take for making your diary public. Sure shooting someone is going to find some minute point to pick apart based on their narrow minded perspective of how things should be.0 -
Some foods will do both. Some food will do neither. Food for thought - I would suggest it's a really rather silly phrase!I like this phrase "Everytime you eat you are either feeding disease or preventing it." I think that's good food for thought. I remind myself of this when I want something processed and relatively unhealthy.
Again, I never see that.t pressure others to justify why they eat the way they do even if the diet of choice is casually mentioned in passing.
If someone recommends the way they eat as solution to a problem which isn't proven, I will likely ask for evidence.
Unfortunately a lot of people DO think that asking for proof, evidence and so on is "bashing".0 -
Some foods will do both. Some food will do neither. Food for thought - I would suggest it's a really rather silly phrase!I like this phrase "Everytime you eat you are either feeding disease or preventing it." I think that's good food for thought. I remind myself of this when I want something processed and relatively unhealthy.
Again, I never see that.t pressure others to justify why they eat the way they do even if the diet of choice is casually mentioned in passing.
If someone recommends the way they eat as solution to a problem which isn't proven, I will likely ask for evidence.
Unfortunately a lot of people DO think that asking for proof, evidence and so on is "bashing".
I think the reason it's often viewed as bashing is because it comes off as being very confrontational, rather than curious. Why is someone saying that Paleo/clean/low-carb/etc. etc. etc. might be useful/helpful because of either anecdotal evidence ("It worked for me") or because they read or heard something somewhere, it's just a suggestion. No one asks people to justify or prove their suggestions when those suggestions are to work out, or count calories, or IIFYM, or everything in moderation, etc.
If someone was saying this is the ONLY solution, then I'd agree with asking why they think that. If it's just a suggestion or someone mentioning this is what they do, why should they need to provide evidence?
Also, I've NEVER seen anyone on MFP saying you HAVE to eat clean, or Paleo, or any of the "fringe" diets. I have however seen people acting and talking as if moderation, etc. is the only way to go. If you have had bad experiences with someone who's clean/Paleo/etc. then I'm sorry, but to be honest in all of the clean eating threads I've seen lately, I've not seen a single clean eater saying you have to eat this way, or can't eat that, etc.0 -
Also, I've NEVER seen anyone on MFP saying you HAVE to eat clean, or Paleo, or any of the "fringe" diets. I have however seen people acting and talking as if moderation, etc. is the only way to go. If you have had bad experiences with someone who's clean/Paleo/etc. then I'm sorry, but to be honest in all of the clean eating threads I've seen lately, I've not seen a single clean eater saying you have to eat this way, or can't eat that, etc.
A poster in the Subway thread just said if you eat Subway, you will get cancer. Yup, one bite and you get cancer apparently.0 -
Also, I've NEVER seen anyone on MFP saying you HAVE to eat clean, or Paleo, or any of the "fringe" diets. I have however seen people acting and talking as if moderation, etc. is the only way to go. If you have had bad experiences with someone who's clean/Paleo/etc. then I'm sorry, but to be honest in all of the clean eating threads I've seen lately, I've not seen a single clean eater saying you have to eat this way, or can't eat that, etc.
A poster in the Subway thread just said if you eat Subway, you will get cancer. Yup, one bite and you get cancer apparently.
These kinds of posts are fairly common in the MFP forums. That said, they're also usually the exception relative to other more tempered posts. I guess I need to start keeping a list of them as evidence that it happens though...because it's almost impossible to find them by searching and 98% of the threads that really get out of hand (where these kinds of posts are seemingly more common) get mod-nuked and lost forever.0 -
Some foods will do both. Some food will do neither. Food for thought - I would suggest it's a really rather silly phrase!I like this phrase "Everytime you eat you are either feeding disease or preventing it." I think that's good food for thought. I remind myself of this when I want something processed and relatively unhealthy.
Again, I never see that.t pressure others to justify why they eat the way they do even if the diet of choice is casually mentioned in passing.
If someone recommends the way they eat as solution to a problem which isn't proven, I will likely ask for evidence.
Unfortunately a lot of people DO think that asking for proof, evidence and so on is "bashing".
I think the reason it's often viewed as bashing is because it comes off as being very confrontational, rather than curious. Why is someone saying that Paleo/clean/low-carb/etc. etc. etc. might be useful/helpful because of either anecdotal evidence ("It worked for me") or because they read or heard something somewhere, it's just a suggestion. No one asks people to justify or prove their suggestions when those suggestions are to work out, or count calories, or IIFYM, or everything in moderation, etc.
If someone was saying this is the ONLY solution, then I'd agree with asking why they think that. If it's just a suggestion or someone mentioning this is what they do, why should they need to provide evidence?
Also, I've NEVER seen anyone on MFP saying you HAVE to eat clean, or Paleo, or any of the "fringe" diets. I have however seen people acting and talking as if moderation, etc. is the only way to go. If you have had bad experiences with someone who's clean/Paleo/etc. then I'm sorry, but to be honest in all of the clean eating threads I've seen lately, I've not seen a single clean eater saying you have to eat this way, or can't eat that, etc.
Just this afternoon a newer member on a new thread asked about vegetables because she was going to eat clean. I think it only took 4 replies before she was grilled as to why she wanted to eat clean. Honestly, other members don't realize how they come across. One simple question regarding vegetables and already it becomes a defend why you want to eat clean? It is no one's business why she wants to eat clean! The question was about vegetables. Anyway, anyone who mentions anything about eating clean is immediately put on the hot seat. And to make matters worse, if the member who says they eat clean doesn't provide some type of justification, links to why eating clean is better and open their diary things get worse. Honestly, these folks putting those who eat anything other than the SAD need to get a grip!0 -
I like to fit my macros more than clean eating.l I've done both and this makes me happier. But I still eat my fruits, 5-6 servings of veggies and drink my water. I also really watch carbs. I commend people that can cut food out. I know successful ppl that have done it. I have trigger foods I stay away from. But IIFMM works best for me.0
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Not just that, i also look at what works for in the long run. And then again this really is a site that supports clean moderation. WW is the same way. Except they emphasize stay in your points.0
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Just this afternoon a newer member on a new thread asked about vegetables because she was going to eat clean. I think it only took 4 replies before she was grilled as to why she wanted to eat clean. Honestly, other members don't realize how they come across. One simple question regarding vegetables and already it becomes a defend why you want to eat clean? It is no one's business why she wants to eat clean! The question was about vegetables. Anyway, anyone who mentions anything about eating clean is immediately put on the hot seat. And to make matters worse, if the member who says they eat clean doesn't provide some type of justification, links to why eating clean is better and open their diary things get worse. Honestly, these folks putting those who eat anything other than the SAD need to get a grip!
I read and posted in that thread, and I don't think that's a fair representation of it. If that's what's meant by attacks on healthy eating, I'm starting to understand why I don't see it.
Basically, there were numerous posts about how to cook vegetables, how people learned to like them, a few links to threads on not complicating it (I didn't follow the links, but I personally disagree that it's always bad to approach losing weight from the perspective of changing your diet if that's what appeals), and then one post (not 4 in) that asked questions about the eliminating all non healthy foods/sweets and said that it wasn't necessary.
I think there's some overkill on the "you don't have to do that" front sometimes. Lots of times people know that, but feel like they might be more satisfied eating another way. But I haven't yet seen anyone say simply "because I feel better" or "I enjoy this way of eating more" and get pushback. It's usually when someone seems to be struggling. (I agree that the struggles expressed weren't about the sweets issue.)0 -
honestly, I think it is people being defensive. For everyone who says that, there is also someone who is eating clean and is pretty self-righteous about it. It goes both ways.
I left MFP for a while and when I came back, I feel like it got way more negative on the boards. Kinda bums me out0 -
I noticed this as well in the forums.
It's true that weight loss is about calories in/out. I think there's so many people advocating "if it fits your macros, eat it" because there are so many people on here talking about how they completely cut out meat/dairy/carbs/etc. from their diet and they're snacking on celery sticks but their cravings are getting worse by the day. I think we're just trying to get through to these people that you don't have to cut ANYTHING out of your diet. If you want a piece of chocolate, eat it.
I'm naturally eating "healthier" while losing because I would rather eat more food than less, and the "healthy" stuff generally allows me to do that. Yeah, I could eat two 400 calorie donuts for breakfast, but that would leave me hungry the rest of the day with only 700 calories left in my caloric budget. I'd rather have my yummy oatmeal and coffee for 275 calories, be satisfied when I'm done, and still have lunch, my afternoon snack, and dinner to look forward to. I don't have a huge problem with cravings because I "save" my exercise calories for the weekend and allow myself to be more lax on food choices. If I DID have a strong craving during the week, though, I could have a donut and still lose weight, as long as I planned the rest of the day's food to fit into my macros.
It does annoy me when people say things like, "Egg whites? Just eat the whole egg!" or "PB2 is crap, eat the real thing." If I could fit these things into my calories, and I can/do a lot of the time, I would. However, if I'm having a boiled egg for my snack, I don't see anything wrong with using egg whites at lunch and saving a few calories. It's not a huge sacrifice to me. If I didn't like the taste of just egg whites, I'd eat the whole egg and work it into my goal. If I want to use PB2 to add the flavor of peanut butter to my protein shake and use 25 calories instead of 100, then I don't see a problem with that. It's not like I'm never going to eat peanut butter again because it's high in calories. But if I can use a substitute and still enjoy the food, while being able to eat more for the rest of the day, that's what I'm going to do.
There's nothing wrong with eating "healthy," but some people take that to the extreme when it's totally unnecessary.
You seem to have a very balanced healthy approach.
I did notice what you describe in a thread about mayonnaise - a poster started a thread just sharing how happy she was to find low fat mayo and how it has a tenth of the calories of other mayo etc - several posters then started on You can have real mayo, just make it fit! You dont have to deprive yourself of real mayo!, I'll eat real mayo and not low fat crap! etc
Poster wasn't saying everyone must eat low fat mayo or real mayo is bad or anything extreme - was just sharing her happy discovery of how low fat mayo tasted good and was a tenth of the calories.
Some of the responses did seem rather bizarre.0 -
A matter of taste I guess. Perhaps clean vegetables taste good to you. As far as I am concerned nothing beats a medium-rare thick cut of prime rib, a whole rack of baby back ribs or even a greasy, big cheeseburger. But that's just me.0
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edit: whoops.0
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Just this afternoon a newer member on a new thread asked about vegetables because she was going to eat clean. I think it only took 4 replies before she was grilled as to why she wanted to eat clean. Honestly, other members don't realize how they come across. One simple question regarding vegetables and already it becomes a defend why you want to eat clean? It is no one's business why she wants to eat clean! The question was about vegetables. Anyway, anyone who mentions anything about eating clean is immediately put on the hot seat. And to make matters worse, if the member who says they eat clean doesn't provide some type of justification, links to why eating clean is better and open their diary things get worse. Honestly, these folks putting those who eat anything other than the SAD need to get a grip!
Just.... all the time.,.. a newer member asked about a cleanse and were repeatedly told it was a stupid idea.
No one jumped to THEIR defence when people questioned why you'd want to unnecessarily cut out massive amounts of food groups.
If someone asks me *WHY* I'm doing something and I don't have a good answer, I take that as useful information myself - in the health and fitness field, at least as a good reminder that I should do some research on it and find out if it's backed up by scientific evidence or is just some hippy-wannabes trying to peddle their latest conceptions
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And I still go back to my basic question: what makes food "clean" and "dirty?" It's a ridiculously judgmental way of looking at food and can lead to disordered ways of thinking about food. If the bodybuilding set is loaded with EDs (as I've seen people here claim--not my assertion) and they are among the most vocal proponents of eating "clean," isn't there some kind of association between the two? I'm not saying that "clean" eating created the disordered thinking, but is it not possible that 1) yes it did and 2) that people with already disordered thinking about food are attracted to "clean" eating, as well as 3) some people believing that it is an effective and sustainable lifestyle that promotes weight loss and better health?0
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How is this thread still going.
People want to eat healthy food, so what?
To be fair a lot of the threads that cause this type of debate are not posted by people clean eating, there posted by people who take issue with others doing something different.
The other day a thread was posted to flame bait and for the first couple of pages the clean eaters weren't taking the bait - some of the posts on page two were actually asking where all the clean eaters were, because they just wanted to bash them!0 -
Because people keep posting in it?
People want to eat healthy food, so what?
Some people want to claim "their" food choices are specifically "healthy" and others not.
Me, I think that's a narrow minded "unhealthy" concept that isn't congruent with reality.generally.0 -
Counting calories for an extended period of time has the potential of creating an unhealthy relationship with food.Interesting assertion, doctor.
I don't understand the distinction between counting calories to *gain* weight vs counting calories to *lose* weight.
Both are "easy" to do without counting if you don't care about your health and are indifferent about your ultimate body composition. (I've done both at various times in my life without counting, both intentionally and unintentionally.) To lose weight, you just make sure you always feel hungry. To gain weight, you make sure you never feel hungry. Easy.
To do either one "right" and with specific and intentional results, however, requires counting.
Does keeping a household budget for an extended period of time have the potential of creating an unhealthy relationship with money? Does keeping an exercise log for an extended period of time have the potential of creating an unhealthy relationship with exercise? Does keeping important dates on your calendar for an extended period of time have the potential of creating an unhealthy relationship with time management?
Bingo!
Best post in the entire thread and nobody responds, so I felt I had to give you a huge thumbs up.0 -
Some foods will do both. Some food will do neither. Food for thought - I would suggest it's a really rather silly phrase!I like this phrase "Everytime you eat you are either feeding disease or preventing it." I think that's good food for thought. I remind myself of this when I want something processed and relatively unhealthy.
Again, I never see that.t pressure others to justify why they eat the way they do even if the diet of choice is casually mentioned in passing.
If someone recommends the way they eat as solution to a problem which isn't proven, I will likely ask for evidence.
Unfortunately a lot of people DO think that asking for proof, evidence and so on is "bashing".
I think the reason it's often viewed as bashing is because it comes off as being very confrontational, rather than curious. Why is someone saying that Paleo/clean/low-carb/etc. etc. etc. might be useful/helpful because of either anecdotal evidence ("It worked for me") or because they read or heard something somewhere, it's just a suggestion. No one asks people to justify or prove their suggestions when those suggestions are to work out, or count calories, or IIFYM, or everything in moderation, etc.
If someone was saying this is the ONLY solution, then I'd agree with asking why they think that. If it's just a suggestion or someone mentioning this is what they do, why should they need to provide evidence?
Also, I've NEVER seen anyone on MFP saying you HAVE to eat clean, or Paleo, or any of the "fringe" diets. I have however seen people acting and talking as if moderation, etc. is the only way to go. If you have had bad experiences with someone who's clean/Paleo/etc. then I'm sorry, but to be honest in all of the clean eating threads I've seen lately, I've not seen a single clean eater saying you have to eat this way, or can't eat that, etc.
Just this afternoon a newer member on a new thread asked about vegetables because she was going to eat clean. I think it only took 4 replies before she was grilled as to why she wanted to eat clean. Honestly, other members don't realize how they come across. One simple question regarding vegetables and already it becomes a defend why you want to eat clean? It is no one's business why she wants to eat clean! The question was about vegetables. Anyway, anyone who mentions anything about eating clean is immediately put on the hot seat. And to make matters worse, if the member who says they eat clean doesn't provide some type of justification, links to why eating clean is better and open their diary things get worse. Honestly, these folks putting those who eat anything other than the SAD need to get a grip!
Is it possible that you feel a bit out of place because you do not subscribe to the primary purpose of this site, which is calorie counting for as long as you can stomach it? If a new user is asking about clean eating, yes, she will likely get asked why she is doing this. IMO the participants are slacking off if they do not ask this question. It is important to find out if, especially a newer member feels she NEEDS to eat clean to lose weight. And if she does, she can be advised that she indeed doesn't , and simply needs to eat at a caloric deficit. Now whether or not she chooses to take that advise after reviewing her personal situation, as an adult is apt to do, is up to her, but I would have you refer to the dozens of posts right here on this thread about "falling off" and generally low compliance to restrictive diets. If you really think we should simply help her with her specific question and mind our business on everything else, you may be on the wrong site
Reminds me about the smart young lady that was pissed as hell because people wouldn't just shut the heck up and give her advise about eating 400g of protein a day. Multiple people posted to say, uh, that doesn't sound right. Turns out she miscommunicated some details and despite her weight, only needed about half that much. What the heck kind of site would this be if people just doled out advise to potentially misguided people without bothering to set them straight? What quality of information would future members and surfers see when they simply perform searches to learn, with or without posting? Personally, I'd rather have simple, solid information I can search and trust than have ignorance rule the day. And I rely on, if not expect the members on here to make that happen.0 -
Last year, a friend and I decided we'd get highly fit. Between the two of us, she had the more restrictive diet. I'm not sure if she was counting calories but she pretty much eliminated everything except for vegetables and meat and she stuck to this diet like glue for over two months. If my fiance and I came over for dinner, everyone would be eating normally and she would be eating controlled portions out of tupperware containers.
I admit that I teased her about this but never came down hard on her or told her to reconsider the diet.
So to reiterate, this was about a year ago. The other day, I sent her a text jokingly complaining (sort of ha ha) that I had eaten a handful of turkish figs causing my carb count to skyrocket for that day. The message I received back, criticized me for being so meticulous with my nutrition and she pretty much told me I was making a huge deal out of nothing.
It comes down to the kind of person that you are and what you're going through at the time. The sense behind healthy eating tends to be idiosyncratic I find.0 -
Just this afternoon a newer member on a new thread asked about vegetables because she was going to eat clean. I think it only took 4 replies before she was grilled as to why she wanted to eat clean. Honestly, other members don't realize how they come across. One simple question regarding vegetables and already it becomes a defend why you want to eat clean? It is no one's business why she wants to eat clean! The question was about vegetables. Anyway, anyone who mentions anything about eating clean is immediately put on the hot seat. And to make matters worse, if the member who says they eat clean doesn't provide some type of justification, links to why eating clean is better and open their diary things get worse. Honestly, these folks putting those who eat anything other than the SAD need to get a grip!
Why the assumption that the people who were asking her why she eats clean all eat the SAD?
Dichotomous thinking is faulty logic and leads to long drawn-out threads like these.
Dichotomous thinking = putting people (or things) into one of two categories, generally two extremes... people in this debate get polarised into "IIFYM/junk food warriors/people who eat nothing but junk" and "clean eaters/healthy eaters/people who systematically avoid all junk food" - your assumption that anyone who's questioning someone who says they eats clean must be eating the standard American diet is the result of such dichotomous thinking. And it's bad logic.... just because someone advises people that they can enjoy some "junk" food so long as they stick to their macro and calorie goals, it does not mean they themselves eat huge amounts of junk food, or that they're advising others to eat huge amounts of junk food....just that they can eat it if it fits in their calorie/macro goals.
It's interesting that the clean eaters who exercise dichotomous thinking with regards to people who advise others they don't have to give up all "junk" food, also have dichotomous thinking about food, i.e. classifying food into "healthy" and "junk" and striving to get all their diet from the "healthy" category and abstain from the "junk" category............ but foods don't fit into two extremes like this...... food generally falls on a continuum from extremely nutritious to empty calories. And most of the food that's classified as "Junk" doesn't actually fall at the empty calories end of the scale either... burgers are very nutritious - they contain protein, fats, carbohydrates, vitamins and minerals. The problem is that they're easy to overeat on and they don't contain much fibre. A diet consisting of only burgers is going to be unbalanced, and therefore unhealthy. But if you're getting fibre from other sources and a wider range of vitamins and minerals from other sources, then including a burger in your diet, while also watching your calories, is not unhealthy. Even foods that are genuinely empty calories (meaning they give you calories and sugar but nothing else, e.g. boiled sweets, gummy bears) - nothing wrong with having a few every now and then if the rest of your diet includes all the nutrition your body needs and you log the calories.
People don't fit neatly into categories. The diet of someone who does IIFYM properly is probably no different than someone who eats 80/20 clean or even 90/10 clean. And re the assumption about the SAD - a lot of people on this site are not even American... I eat a combination of Arabic, British, American and Indian food... that might be considered to be typically British but it's not typically American. And my diet contains plenty of protein, moderate amounts of fat and carbs, plenty of vitamins and minerals (I try to get my 7 servings of fruit and veg a day - as advised by the British health authorities) and also plenty of fibre. And I drink lots of water. So if I'm going to go to KFC or Dairy Queen or get Lebanese or Iranian takeaway once a week or once a fortnight, then I'll see that as a boost to my protein intake and a reason to be careful with fats and carbs for the rest of the day. I call it IIFYM, someone else will call how I eat 80/20 clean. Point is I'm happy and healthy and my way of eating is sustainable. And I get to eat DQ chocolate chunk frozen yoghurt every couple of weeks or so. and also that people don't fit neatly into categories regarding how they eat.
Most of what is perceived by the OP and other people on this thread as "bashing healthy eating" is actually an attempt to counteract dichotomous thinking, i.e. getting people to realise that a healthy diet is about balance and that it's possible to be healthy and lose weight and eat foods classified as "junk" by some, and that there's no reason to deprive yourself as long as you're careful about fitting it into your macro and calorie goals.0 -
Some foods will do both. Some food will do neither. Food for thought - I would suggest it's a really rather silly phrase!I like this phrase "Everytime you eat you are either feeding disease or preventing it." I think that's good food for thought. I remind myself of this when I want something processed and relatively unhealthy.
Again, I never see that.t pressure others to justify why they eat the way they do even if the diet of choice is casually mentioned in passing.
If someone recommends the way they eat as solution to a problem which isn't proven, I will likely ask for evidence.
Unfortunately a lot of people DO think that asking for proof, evidence and so on is "bashing".
I think the reason it's often viewed as bashing is because it comes off as being very confrontational, rather than curious. Why is someone saying that Paleo/clean/low-carb/etc. etc. etc. might be useful/helpful because of either anecdotal evidence ("It worked for me") or because they read or heard something somewhere, it's just a suggestion. No one asks people to justify or prove their suggestions when those suggestions are to work out, or count calories, or IIFYM, or everything in moderation, etc.
If someone was saying this is the ONLY solution, then I'd agree with asking why they think that. If it's just a suggestion or someone mentioning this is what they do, why should they need to provide evidence?
Also, I've NEVER seen anyone on MFP saying you HAVE to eat clean, or Paleo, or any of the "fringe" diets. I have however seen people acting and talking as if moderation, etc. is the only way to go. If you have had bad experiences with someone who's clean/Paleo/etc. then I'm sorry, but to be honest in all of the clean eating threads I've seen lately, I've not seen a single clean eater saying you have to eat this way, or can't eat that, etc.
Just this afternoon a newer member on a new thread asked about vegetables because she was going to eat clean. I think it only took 4 replies before she was grilled as to why she wanted to eat clean. Honestly, other members don't realize how they come across. One simple question regarding vegetables and already it becomes a defend why you want to eat clean? It is no one's business why she wants to eat clean! The question was about vegetables. Anyway, anyone who mentions anything about eating clean is immediately put on the hot seat. And to make matters worse, if the member who says they eat clean doesn't provide some type of justification, links to why eating clean is better and open their diary things get worse. Honestly, these folks putting those who eat anything other than the SAD need to get a grip!
Is it possible that you feel a bit out of place because you do not subscribe to the primary purpose of this site, which is calorie counting for as long as you can stomach it? If a new user is asking about clean eating, yes, she will likely get asked why she is doing this. IMO the participants are slacking off if they do not ask this question. It is important to find out if, especially a newer member feels she NEEDS to eat clean to lose weight. And if she does, she can be advised that she indeed doesn't , and simply needs to eat at a caloric deficit. Now whether or not she chooses to take that advise after reviewing her personal situation, as an adult is apt to do, is up to her, but I would have you refer to the dozens of posts right here on this thread about "falling off" and generally low compliance to restrictive diets. If you really think we should simply help her with her specific question and mind our business on everything else, you may be on the wrong site
BUT, she wasn't asking about clean eating or how to eat clean or even asking for advice on clean eating. She was asking about vegetables. The fact others had to grill her on clean eating because she wants ways to work vegetables into her diet does not fit into what you are suggesting. This type of thing happens over and over.0 -
How is this thread still going.
People want to eat healthy food, so what?
To be fair a lot of the threads that cause this type of debate are not posted by people clean eating, there posted by people who take issue with others doing something different.
The other day a thread was posted to flame bait and for the first couple of pages the clean eaters weren't taking the bait - some of the posts on page two were actually asking where all the clean eaters were, because they just wanted to bash them!
^^^^^THIS0 -
Because people keep posting in it?People want to eat healthy food, so what?
Some people want to claim "their" food choices are specifically "healthy" and others not.
Me, I think that's a narrow minded "unhealthy" concept that isn't congruent with reality.generally.
Maybe you are the one with the unhealthy obsession with the word.
Just because one food is healthy it doesn't mean that food that are not healthy are unhealthy.
Maybe people need to be less literal with their interpretation of words.0 -
Because it's okay to eat the "processed" foods that are in the American diet, and that is not what makes "us" fat. Over eating is what makes people fat. "Healthy" eating is bashed because it has become, or perhaps always was, a way for self-righteous people to go around brow-beating and nagging all their friends - often friends who are healthier and thinner than they are.0
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And I still go back to my basic question: what makes food "clean" and "dirty?" It's a ridiculously judgmental way of looking at food and can lead to disordered ways of thinking about food. If the bodybuilding set is loaded with EDs (as I've seen people here claim--not my assertion) and they are among the most vocal proponents of eating "clean," isn't there some kind of association between the two? I'm not saying that "clean" eating created the disordered thinking, but is it not possible that 1) yes it did and 2) that people with already disordered thinking about food are attracted to "clean" eating, as well as 3) some people believing that it is an effective and sustainable lifestyle that promotes weight loss and better health?
Dropping food on the floor makes it dirty 0
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