Your food is no cleaner than mine

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  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,268 Member
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    It's not false, I'm saying I've never seen one - I've yet in my life to meet (online or in real life) an elitest clean eater

    This cannot be true. You are on the MFP boards. You can't possibly not have come across that.

    I personally have been on the receiving end of the jabs and actually name calling from a clean eater...

    Why because I eat fruit loops...yup...fruit loops...

    Then there is the rampant distain shown for those of us with AMG Chocolate in our diary...or prepackaged dinners etc.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    It's not false, I'm saying I've never seen one - I've yet in my life to meet (online or in real life) an elitest clean eater

    This cannot be true. You are on the MFP boards. You can't possibly not have come across that.

    I personally have been on the receiving end of the jabs and actually name calling from a clean eater...

    Why because I eat fruit loops...yup...fruit loops...

    Then there is the rampant distain shown for those of us with AMG Chocolate in our diary...or prepackaged dinners etc.

    I was once food-diary-shamed for having 13g of hershey's syrup in my protein drinks by a clean-eating disciple...that I was damaging my health (among other claims where he was completely oblivious to the concept of context and dose). That's just the most recent example of many.

    And yet, I keep my food diary open...while it seems that so many of the loudest clean-eating zealots keep theirs locked up. Interesting, no?
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,268 Member
    Options
    It's not false, I'm saying I've never seen one - I've yet in my life to meet (online or in real life) an elitest clean eater

    This cannot be true. You are on the MFP boards. You can't possibly not have come across that.

    I personally have been on the receiving end of the jabs and actually name calling from a clean eater...

    Why because I eat fruit loops...yup...fruit loops...

    Then there is the rampant distain shown for those of us with AMG Chocolate in our diary...or prepackaged dinners etc.

    I was once food-diary-shamed for having 13g of hershey's syrup in my protein drinks by a clean-eating disciple...that I was damaging my health (among other claims where he was completely oblivious to the concept of context and dose). That's just the most recent example of many.

    And yet, I keep my food diary open...while it seems that so many of the loudest clean-eating zealots keep theirs locked up. Interesting, no?

    ditto here, it will remain open...for those who are considering "clean eating" so that they can see what you can do with just counting calories, watching macros and having treats everyday.
  • _Terrapin_
    _Terrapin_ Posts: 4,301 Member
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    okay let's be honest, 12 grams of Hershey syrup is acceptable, 13.....Good Lord....what were you thinking? Seriously, this thread has bounced all around. I appreciated the OP's comments, well done, top notch and I'd recommend a Fresca but is it clean?
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    It's not false, I'm saying I've never seen one - I've yet in my life to meet (online or in real life) an elitest clean eater

    This cannot be true. You are on the MFP boards. You can't possibly not have come across that.

    I personally have been on the receiving end of the jabs and actually name calling from a clean eater...

    Why because I eat fruit loops...yup...fruit loops...

    Then there is the rampant distain shown for those of us with AMG Chocolate in our diary...or prepackaged dinners etc.

    Lol. I remember that post it was a month or so back.

    To be fair the person who posted that did originally do it by mistake because she thought you were one of the posters that were hijacking her thread.

    I believe she did apologise when her mistake was pointed out. agreed it was uncalled for but she was getting it from all sides.
  • Ang108
    Ang108 Posts: 1,711 Member
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    It's not false, I'm saying I've never seen one - I've yet in my life to meet (online or in real life) an elitest clean eater

    This cannot be true. You are on the MFP boards. You can't possibly not have come across that.

    I personally have been on the receiving end of the jabs and actually name calling from a clean eater...

    Why because I eat fruit loops...yup...fruit loops...

    Then there is the rampant distain shown for those of us with AMG Chocolate in our diary...or prepackaged dinners etc.

    I was once food-diary-shamed for having 13g of hershey's syrup in my protein drinks by a clean-eating disciple...that I was damaging my health (among other claims where he was completely oblivious to the concept of context and dose). That's just the most recent example of many.

    And yet, I keep my food diary open...while it seems that so many of the loudest clean-eating zealots keep theirs locked up. Interesting, no?

    Most of us who have been around for a bit have had certain experiences. I got a very nasty PM from a woman after I confessed that never in my more than 60 years have a eaten a store bought pizza, or one from any kind of restaurant. The woman did not know me, but implied that by eating pizza I could get a sex life among other things. I thought about it and a couple of weeks later bought a slice at a Sam's club.......well, I still don't like pizza and I still have no sex life....lol.
    I also keep my diary open and have been put down; " Baby, your IF whole foods diet is **** ". I have never said that I eat whole foods only ( I usually call it a natural food based diet ) and have never told anyone what they ate was wrong unless I was specifically asked ( as in " Look at my diary and tell me how to get more protein " ) and would never foist the same diet I eat on anyone. I also don't want to be told that what I need is a decent cheat meal with a hamburger and a lot of bacon.
    People usually eat a diet that was formed by the culture they live(d) in and by personal food experiences and the preferences that developed from those and that means that we are not all the same.
    I agree with you some of the loudest clean-eating people keep their diary closed....but you know what ? So do some of the most loud mouthed dirty eaters.....some people on either side of the spectrum just like to stir the pot.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    It's not false, I'm saying I've never seen one - I've yet in my life to meet (online or in real life) an elitest clean eater

    This cannot be true. You are on the MFP boards. You can't possibly not have come across that.

    I personally have been on the receiving end of the jabs and actually name calling from a clean eater...

    Why because I eat fruit loops...yup...fruit loops...

    Then there is the rampant distain shown for those of us with AMG Chocolate in our diary...or prepackaged dinners etc.

    I was once food-diary-shamed for having 13g of hershey's syrup in my protein drinks by a clean-eating disciple...that I was damaging my health (among other claims where he was completely oblivious to the concept of context and dose). That's just the most recent example of many.

    And yet, I keep my food diary open...while it seems that so many of the loudest clean-eating zealots keep theirs locked up. Interesting, no?

    Most of us who have been around for a bit have had certain experiences. I got a very nasty PM from a woman after I confessed that never in my more than 60 years have a eaten a store bought pizza, or one from any kind of restaurant. The woman did not know me, but implied that by eating pizza I could get a sex life among other things. I thought about it and a couple of weeks later bought a slice at a Sam's club.......well, I still don't like pizza and I still have no sex life....lol.
    I also keep my diary open and have been put down; " Baby, your IF whole foods diet is **** ". I have never said that I eat whole foods only ( I usually call it a natural food based diet ) and have never told anyone what they ate was wrong unless I was specifically asked ( as in " Look at my diary and tell me how to get more protein " ) and would never foist the same diet I eat on anyone. I also don't want to be told that what I need is a decent cheat meal with a hamburger and a lot of bacon.
    People usually eat a diet that was formed by the culture they live(d) in and by personal food experiences and the preferences that developed from those and that means that we are not all the same.
    I agree with you some of the loudest clean-eating people keep their diary closed....but you know what ? So do some of the most loud mouthed dirty eaters.....some people on either side of the spectrum just like to stir the pot.

    I disagree that it is not decidedly lopsided from the several times I've checked so many of the threads where it was easy to determine which side of the argument someone was on. I suppose it could be selection bias (despite checking each poster) or I just had bad/nonrepresentative samples each time, but I'm convinced it's a solid conclusion.
  • darkangel45422
    darkangel45422 Posts: 234 Member
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    It's not false, I'm saying I've never seen one - I've yet in my life to meet (online or in real life) an elitest clean eater

    This cannot be true. You are on the MFP boards. You can't possibly not have come across that.

    I personally have been on the receiving end of the jabs and actually name calling from a clean eater...

    Why because I eat fruit loops...yup...fruit loops...

    Then there is the rampant distain shown for those of us with AMG Chocolate in our diary...or prepackaged dinners etc.

    I was once food-diary-shamed for having 13g of hershey's syrup in my protein drinks by a clean-eating disciple...that I was damaging my health (among other claims where he was completely oblivious to the concept of context and dose). That's just the most recent example of many.

    And yet, I keep my food diary open...while it seems that so many of the loudest clean-eating zealots keep theirs locked up. Interesting, no?

    Most of us who have been around for a bit have had certain experiences. I got a very nasty PM from a woman after I confessed that never in my more than 60 years have a eaten a store bought pizza, or one from any kind of restaurant. The woman did not know me, but implied that by eating pizza I could get a sex life among other things. I thought about it and a couple of weeks later bought a slice at a Sam's club.......well, I still don't like pizza and I still have no sex life....lol.
    I also keep my diary open and have been put down; " Baby, your IF whole foods diet is **** ". I have never said that I eat whole foods only ( I usually call it a natural food based diet ) and have never told anyone what they ate was wrong unless I was specifically asked ( as in " Look at my diary and tell me how to get more protein " ) and would never foist the same diet I eat on anyone. I also don't want to be told that what I need is a decent cheat meal with a hamburger and a lot of bacon.
    People usually eat a diet that was formed by the culture they live(d) in and by personal food experiences and the preferences that developed from those and that means that we are not all the same.
    I agree with you some of the loudest clean-eating people keep their diary closed....but you know what ? So do some of the most loud mouthed dirty eaters.....some people on either side of the spectrum just like to stir the pot.

    I disagree that it is not decidedly lopsided from the several times I've checked so many of the threads where it was easy to determine which side of the argument someone was on. I suppose it could be selection bias (despite checking each poster) or I just had bad/nonrepresentative samples each time, but I'm convinced it's a solid conclusion.

    Well I know for myself that after having my diary and weight loss progress bashed by oppositional people, I chose to avoid that kind of confrontation by simply closing my diary off from public viewing. I don't come on to MFP to be told by IIFYMers or moderation eaters or what have you that my views on food must be wrong because I have eaten a box of Smarties or because I haven't lost a lot of weight yet (god forbid someone have views on food but only be starting out on their serious weight loss journey....).

    MFP is decidedly pro moderation/IIFYM and against clean eating or Paleo, etc. which means that more often it will be the clean eaters, Paleo eaters, etc. that get bashed simply because there's fewer of them and more of the moderates, etc., so there'll likely be more bashers from the other side which means clean eaters and Paleo eaters, etc. will probably get attacked more often. Which probably means more will choose as I did to avoid being personally attacked by closing their diary and getting rid of their weight loss tickers.


    I've never once made fun of someone for their weight loss success or lack thereof, but I have been made fun of for mine. It's incredibly demeaning, insulting and unhelpful in a community that's supposed to be supportive, so I chose to avoid it - I don't need that kind of shaming from people who are against food shaming but apparently actively support people shaming.
  • redtreediary
    redtreediary Posts: 69 Member
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    I enjoy this notion that if I think "clean" is arbitrarily defined, so that it can maximally used in a primarily moral dimension, it must follow that I brag about the eating of marshmallows and chocolate covered lab rats or what have you.

    When it's mostly just me jeering at the use of unclear language.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    My food diary was also open when I was paleo for all of calendar 2012...and I have been called out for my food diary far more frequently during the times I was *not* paleo. Weird, huh?

    Perhaps I'm just a special snowflake in that regard.
  • Rage_Phish
    Rage_Phish Posts: 1,507 Member
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    It's weird how the majority of "clean eater" threads are by people comaining about clean eating.
  • VoodooSyxx
    VoodooSyxx Posts: 297
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    It's weird how the majority of "clean eater" threads are by people comaining about clean eating.

    I think the word you're looking for is typical.
  • thatismesammyg
    thatismesammyg Posts: 71 Member
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    What makes "I eat clean" more self-righteous than "Have some self control and willpower and eat in moderation?"

    Why is it not food shaming to acknowledge that some foods are 80 foods and some are 20 foods?

    MFP is a world where shaming is the norm. You're shamed if you say you eat clean. You're shamed if you do cardio. You're shamed if you don't lift heavy. You're shamed if you avoid pizza, ice cream, coffee etc. It's ****ing *** backwards.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    What makes "I eat clean" more self-righteous than "Have some self control and willpower and eat in moderation"

    Since I think I'm the one who used the term self-righteous, I'll answer that IMO it's not. If someone makes the call, based on their understanding of themselves that they can't, or can't enjoyably, eat something in moderation that's a perfectly reasonable decision, and that someone else doesn't feel the need to do so is obviously a bad reason to put anyone down or proclaim superiority. Also, if someone just decides they don't want to eat a particular type of food, that's their business. It's too bad when people buy into these superstitious notions that if they eat something bad the diet won't work, which seems a not uncommon idea of new posters and might explain the desire for eating plans, but people can quite reasonably decide that for the most part they don't want to waste calories on certain food or that it makes them feel bad or whatever. I expect most do.

    But that doesn't make the term clean eating any more helpful.
  • Confuzzled4ever
    Confuzzled4ever Posts: 2,860 Member
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    Why not just call it food? I don't label my food, other than to say, "breakfast," "lunch," "dinner," "dessert," or "snack."

    Balance is definitely relative to lifestyle, just as "yummy" food or "gross" food is relative to taste buds.

    Because we label everything. Everything. Dinner is a label. Its what humans do to make sense of the world around them. Its how we know what we are looking at or for. Its how we decide on one thing versus another.




    Dinner is a label for the food I eat during dinner time. There is no connotation to it.

    It is still a label. Any connotation you apply to a label is your issue with the label. If what you eat matters not and labels are not important, why even label it dinner, why not just say my 3rd meal consisted of, or i ate XYZ after work? You do so, so people know you are talking abut the meal you eat later in the day, its easier, shorter and quicker. If i object to the label dinner for whatever reason i make up, it's my issue right? Same premise. I say i eat clean because its shorter and easier then explaining my diet in detail. Most rationally thinking people understand that means i cook at home using fresh raw whole food and don't buy premade foods or foods that have a lot of additives. My exact diet is not important. Just like what you eat for dinner isn't irrelevant to the phrase "i eat dinner at 6 everyday". But if asked you will explain it in more details.(I had this food for dinner. I do not eat xyz in my diet) And then if you happen to be on MFP, your choices get labeled as wrong and people demand you defend and explain them and then push their preferred method of diet on you. If it turns out in 20 years that added sugar really isn't unhealthy for you at all, then I am still not harming myself by avoiding it. Its still means i eat more healthier foods (like fresh veggies and fruit) and makes it easier to reach my goals.

    The connotation is the difference. "Clean" has a plethora of connotation. "Dinner" has none at all.

    Only because you assign it one... that was my point. You may replace the label dinner, with any label of your choosing that will help you understand my point..

    Everyone assigns it a connotation, some differing more than others. Your point is moot.

    which makes this entire conversation moot. I don't assign it a bad connotation. Just like i don't assign paleo or primal or WW etc a bad connotation. I don't agree with a bunch of those diets, but I don't view it as those people saying "i am superior to you because I eat chosen diet". If you do *that's your problem* not the person describing their diet.

    I'm not going to sit here and type out a paragraph describing my diet, because it might offend you, when saying "i eat clean" does the same thing in 3 little words.

    No, of course you don't. How silly. You are missing the point so much that you can't even get your own argument straight.

    You assign it a "good" connotation, as in, "It's good to eat clean." I say, "Just call it dinner. Everybody has to eat."

    hahaha yes.. because that makes sense.. "what kind of diet do you follow?" "i eat"

    So then good. You can stop saying IIFYM, I can stop saying clean, paleo, vegetarian etc can stop saying that. We all just eat.

    The problem being.. that says nothing to help people figure out what works for them .. and as what we are discussing ad nauseum here... .. people need labels. So now we are back to the beginning..

    oh and yes... I do.. as in it is good for me. Clean eating is good for me. It's the diet that makes me feel the best. And I will say that. I don't care if you agree. If it's not good for you, then good for you. I don't get all bent because you label your diet iifym or vegetarian or paleo or whatever..
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    What makes "I eat clean" more self-righteous than "Have some self control and willpower and eat in moderation"

    Since I think I'm the one who used the term self-righteous, I'll answer that IMO it's not. If someone makes the call, based on their understanding of themselves that they can't, or can't enjoyably, eat something in moderation that's a perfectly reasonable decision, and that someone else doesn't feel the need to do so is obviously a bad reason to put anyone down or proclaim superiority. Also, if someone just decides they don't want to eat a particular type of food, that's their business. It's too bad when people buy into these superstitious notions that if they eat something bad the diet won't work, which seems a not uncommon idea of new posters and might explain the desire for eating plans, but people can quite reasonably decide that for the most part they don't want to waste calories on certain food or that it makes them feel bad or whatever. I expect most do.

    But that doesn't make the term clean eating any more helpful.

    We all buy into something!

    Your diary isn't open, but I guess you perhaps log your food - well if so I'm afraid you've bought into calorie counting.

    Something I haven't personally bought into, but I understand for many people it's a restrictive tool to help them loss weight and that's fine.

    On the flip side some people choice to abstain from certain trigger foods or foods they believe are a less nutritionally healthy choice than other foods and they use that particular tool for their weight loss.

    If both work, which there is conclusive proof that they do, then why be against it.

    Froggy's not better, just different!
  • Jestinia
    Jestinia Posts: 1,153 Member
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    I just want to know why caffeine isn't clean. I pour hot water over ground up bits of vegetation. I drink it. What is the problem!

    *Clutches coffee mug close and glares at clean eaters*
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    I just want to know why caffeine isn't clean. I pour hot water over ground up bits of vegetation. I drink it. What is the problem!

    *Clutches coffee mug close and glares at clean eaters*

    Maybe it's not all coffee, just Kopi Lowak!
  • Jestinia
    Jestinia Posts: 1,153 Member
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    I just want to know why caffeine isn't clean. I pour hot water over ground up bits of vegetation. I drink it. What is the problem!

    *Clutches coffee mug close and glares at clean eaters*

    Maybe it's not all coffee, just Kopi Lowak!

    Ah yes, the beverage that proves rich people don't get rich by being frugal and having common sense or good taste!
  • jmv7117
    jmv7117 Posts: 891 Member
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    It's not false, I'm saying I've never seen one - I've yet in my life to meet (online or in real life) an elitest clean eater

    This cannot be true. You are on the MFP boards. You can't possibly not have come across that.

    I personally have been on the receiving end of the jabs and actually name calling from a clean eater...

    Why because I eat fruit loops...yup...fruit loops...

    Then there is the rampant distain shown for those of us with AMG Chocolate in our diary...or prepackaged dinners etc.

    I was once food-diary-shamed for having 13g of hershey's syrup in my protein drinks by a clean-eating disciple...that I was damaging my health (among other claims where he was completely oblivious to the concept of context and dose). That's just the most recent example of many.

    And yet, I keep my food diary open...while it seems that so many of the loudest clean-eating zealots keep theirs locked up. Interesting, no?

    Most of us who have been around for a bit have had certain experiences. I got a very nasty PM from a woman after I confessed that never in my more than 60 years have a eaten a store bought pizza, or one from any kind of restaurant. The woman did not know me, but implied that by eating pizza I could get a sex life among other things. I thought about it and a couple of weeks later bought a slice at a Sam's club.......well, I still don't like pizza and I still have no sex life....lol.
    I also keep my diary open and have been put down; " Baby, your IF whole foods diet is **** ". I have never said that I eat whole foods only ( I usually call it a natural food based diet ) and have never told anyone what they ate was wrong unless I was specifically asked ( as in " Look at my diary and tell me how to get more protein " ) and would never foist the same diet I eat on anyone. I also don't want to be told that what I need is a decent cheat meal with a hamburger and a lot of bacon.
    People usually eat a diet that was formed by the culture they live(d) in and by personal food experiences and the preferences that developed from those and that means that we are not all the same.
    I agree with you some of the loudest clean-eating people keep their diary closed....but you know what ? So do some of the most loud mouthed dirty eaters.....some people on either side of the spectrum just like to stir the pot.

    I disagree that it is not decidedly lopsided from the several times I've checked so many of the threads where it was easy to determine which side of the argument someone was on. I suppose it could be selection bias (despite checking each poster) or I just had bad/nonrepresentative samples each time, but I'm convinced it's a solid conclusion.

    The choice to keep their diary closed remains solely with the member. There are a multitude of reasons why a member would keep their diary closed and in some cases it would be best if they did for the sake of their own progress. If they are asking for help with their food choices or asking why they aren't losing, perhaps opening the diary briefly would help others in their replies BUT in many cases it just opens that person up to unnecessary criticism. I personally don't need the negativity others would bring over any entry in my diary and I really don't feel it is anyone's business what I eat since I'm not asking for help with my food choices and I have lost the weight I wanted to plus some. I also do not feel it is proper for other to shame or pressure those who choose to keep their food diaries private. You do you, I will do me!

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