Can overtraining + skipping leg day increase my bench press?
LiftAllThePizzas
Posts: 17,857 Member
TLDR, it appears so:
A little background: it's been about 500 days since I started lifting, and while some of my lifts have continued to make progress, everything involving my arms/shoulders peaked 4 months in and has been at a standstill since. I had benched 175, one time, one day in April 2013, and never again came close. In fact, even this spring when I was testing 1rm I still only got up to 160 and failed with 165.
Meanwhile my squats and deads were making crazy progress. Now I realize that everyone can make more progress on those than upper body stuff, but my numbers were still ridiculous. Take the average person with the same squat as me, and their bench will be like an extra 100 lbs beyond mine.
I had tried last summer to add more volume with accessories and such, but it resulted in overtraining so I backed off the volume again.
But recently I was reconsidering this and I had a couple of hypotheses:
1- if I overtrain with more volume, my CNS will adapt and become capable of more volume without becoming overtrained anymore.
2- my legs are hogging all the resources, so if I skip leg day maybe my upper body can make more progress.
3- After making upper body progress, once I resume leg stuff, I can keep those gains.
To test these, I changed my routine. I took out all of my squats/deadlifts/leg/back stuff, and added a bunch of upper body accessory work. I also went from 3 days a week to 6 days a week.
I haven't been able to measure a difference in CNS/recovery yet, but as far as the lifts, the graph speaks for itself. I had peaked early on and was stuck at about a 160 lb bench press forever. As soon as I started this new plan, my bench increased every day and leveled at about 190. It appears that I've hit another wall, which was to be expected, but what I didn't expect was to be able to add 30 lbs to my bench within a matter of days.
The next phase of this experiment will be seeing if I can keep those gains once I start doing leg stuff again.
A little background: it's been about 500 days since I started lifting, and while some of my lifts have continued to make progress, everything involving my arms/shoulders peaked 4 months in and has been at a standstill since. I had benched 175, one time, one day in April 2013, and never again came close. In fact, even this spring when I was testing 1rm I still only got up to 160 and failed with 165.
Meanwhile my squats and deads were making crazy progress. Now I realize that everyone can make more progress on those than upper body stuff, but my numbers were still ridiculous. Take the average person with the same squat as me, and their bench will be like an extra 100 lbs beyond mine.
I had tried last summer to add more volume with accessories and such, but it resulted in overtraining so I backed off the volume again.
But recently I was reconsidering this and I had a couple of hypotheses:
1- if I overtrain with more volume, my CNS will adapt and become capable of more volume without becoming overtrained anymore.
2- my legs are hogging all the resources, so if I skip leg day maybe my upper body can make more progress.
3- After making upper body progress, once I resume leg stuff, I can keep those gains.
To test these, I changed my routine. I took out all of my squats/deadlifts/leg/back stuff, and added a bunch of upper body accessory work. I also went from 3 days a week to 6 days a week.
I haven't been able to measure a difference in CNS/recovery yet, but as far as the lifts, the graph speaks for itself. I had peaked early on and was stuck at about a 160 lb bench press forever. As soon as I started this new plan, my bench increased every day and leveled at about 190. It appears that I've hit another wall, which was to be expected, but what I didn't expect was to be able to add 30 lbs to my bench within a matter of days.
The next phase of this experiment will be seeing if I can keep those gains once I start doing leg stuff again.
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Replies
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is there an actual question??
LOL I would die if I skipped leg day for more than a day.
more swquatz is the answer to ALL of life's questions.
Therefor the answer to is "skipping leg day going to increase my bench?"-
No- because more squatz is always the answer.0 -
If you neglect to train your legs all of your lifts will go down; bench press included, due to the hormonal influx experienced after a maximal compound exercise is performed. Bench presses are rarely heavy enough to induce this phenomena and you would therefore lose quite a bit of endogenous hormones. Furthermore, the bench press is a full body movement. If you allow your lower body and trunk to become weaker then your bench press will follow suit.
OP, please don't turn into one of those guys who bench all the time and have skinny legs! lol0 -
Don't skip legs or deads, they are compound moves and build overall strength. Try Dumbbell bench presses to build shoulder/arm strength to increase your bench.--- Oh the answer to over-training & skipping legs is Nope! Cut back on your cardio if you are doing a lot, it will hamper your strength gains.0
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If I was only allowed to do one exercise to maintain muscle/strength, it would be squats. Nothing works the entire body like squats. Although I do like DL as well.
i just read a study that showed that guys who worked out ONLY doing squats, also increased how much they could curl.
Like others said...leg day is the end all of weight lifting. Thou shall do squats.
Strive for a balanced approach, but don't neglect legs.0 -
After the prior year resulted in a 15 lb decrease in my bench, it was worth trying out something different. I don't intend to stop doing lower body stuff for any significant length of time. (I love squats and deadlifts.) But having stopped for just a couple of weeks has allowed me to add 30 lbs to my bench press.0
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I'm sorry but did you say SKIP leg day? Seriously?0
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Or maybe it helped you pass that mental block. I've had people tell me they fail at such and such a weight, then I secretly add 10lbs to their bench, and they bench it. All of a sudden, they keep progressing.After the prior year resulted in a 15 lb decrease in my bench, it was worth trying out something different. I don't intend to stop doing lower body stuff for any significant length of time. (I love squats and deadlifts.) But having stopped for just a couple of weeks has allowed me to add 30 lbs to my bench press.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I just noticed that on your graph it shows that your 1rm bench press is less than 200lbs. If this is the case then there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for you to mess with your programming.0
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Or maybe it helped you pass that mental block. I've had people tell me they fail at such and such a weight, then I secretly add 10lbs to their bench, and they bench it. All of a sudden, they keep progressing.
Yup! Your brain plays as big of a role, if not bigger, as your muscles in strength training.0 -
Yep, this is the first time that I've ever benched more than 1.0 BW. And meanwhile my 1rm squat is almost 360. And this is at 185 lbs BW. I'm trying to get my upper body to be more like my legs.I just noticed that on your graph it shows that your 1rm bench press is less than 200lbs. If this is the case then there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for you to mess with your programming.0 -
If you're following one of the beginner programs that prescribe squats every lifting day, and you're maximizing effort on the squats, this can impact effort levels and improvement on other compound lifts.
If you're doing legs one day/week, that's probably not particularly related to stalling on bench.0 -
Here is the same data with my squats alongside it. I don't think I'm in danger of my legs falling behind.
It will be very interesting to see what this graph does when I start squats/deadlifts again.:bigsmile:0 -
Soooooooo what I'm seeing is you actually plateaued on a lift- and then deloaded the lift and then had success.
Sounds like anybody who is past newb gains and is now in the grind of straight up fighting for that extra 5 pounds on the bar. It comes and goes. It's normal.
And I suspect there was negligible impact from the amount of squats.
If you are pressing whole body bench- then you should be using your legs- so having stronger legs will never hurt your bench.0 -
This theory could possibly get you the 'team no-legs-day' broscientist of the year award.
On a side note Id hypothesize that by increasing your training frequency, youre not necessarily automatically overtraining (+ this has been a short term experiment).0 -
I agree that this type of thing can happen, but in this case, I had been convinced the whole time that I was capable of more than what actually happened.Or maybe it helped you pass that mental block. I've had people tell me they fail at such and such a weight, then I secretly add 10lbs to their bench, and they bench it. All of a sudden, they keep progressing.
Yup! Your brain plays as big of a role, if not bigger, as your muscles in strength training.0 -
You're thinking in terms of cns recovery and general overtraining when you should be worried about overuse injuries. Specifically, you're going to wreck your shoulders. Just like if you squatted everyday you'd wreck your hips.
Bonus note: Tendons and ligaments progress at a much slower rate than muscles. Just because your muscles have gotten stronger at a fast rate doesn't mean the rest of your body is ready to handle increased intensity+volume at the same speed0 -
in, with hope.0
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Wait, you want to take out ALL back work and just bench? You don't know how the bench actually works, nor do you understand how opposing muscles work and the need for them to be balanced.0
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I can offer no help because my bench sucks balls, but I think the graph is lovely.
(oh, and don't skip leg day)0 -
Or maybe it helped you pass that mental block. I've had people tell me they fail at such and such a weight, then I secretly add 10lbs to their bench, and they bench it. All of a sudden, they keep progressing.After the prior year resulted in a 15 lb decrease in my bench, it was worth trying out something different. I don't intend to stop doing lower body stuff for any significant length of time. (I love squats and deadlifts.) But having stopped for just a couple of weeks has allowed me to add 30 lbs to my bench press.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
There is also research that the color red has been shown to increase testosterone in males. IN for Underoos.
https://howespharmacy.com/article.php?id=676512
Additionally, counting appears to be psychological as well. Counting past 10 the mind starts going "wow this is too many"; while if you start back at one it doesnt "seem so bad".
So maybe you just believe you are getting stronger because you skip leg day? Never underestimate the power of the mind.0 -
I like this very much Mr. Pizza - - when people lay out facts and use that to model systems.
Rather than the other way around.0 -
everyone knows you cant spell legendary without leg day
but srs OP, train full body or you will look unproportionate, and legs are probably the most important to work since you use then every day. its not as often you need to put the muscles used for bench into play unless you have a job that requires you to push heavy things around, or play a sport that requires it (being on the line in football would be the only thing i can think of and even that is mostly tri's)0 -
I've been training for almost 3 years now. I feel the pain of the non-progressing bench. My best lifts at 220 are 475 squats, 540 deadlift and 255 bench. I've had to claw and scrape for every 5 lbs on the bench. One thing I realize is that bench responds differently than squat or deadlift. For me, volume definitely helps, along with accessories.
You should, however, continue with some kind of leg and back training, even if it is deemphasized. Do just enough to maintain while focusing on bench. And don't worry about over-training. You aren't over-training. You are under-recovering. Over-training usually happens to elite athletes who, even when they recover from the workout, still are losing strength and capacity.0 -
There is nothing more comical than seeing a guy who is super huge on top but has spindly legs.0
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There is nothing more comical than seeing a guy who is super huge on top but has spindly legs.
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The HST program I'm using involves frequent deloading as well as strategic deconditioning. (SD = not lifting at all for two weeks after each 6 weeks of progressive lifting.) I'd been through several cycles, and also over 2 months off completely to recover from hernia surgery, so if a deload was all it took, it would have happened last year, or when I started back after surgery.Soooooooo what I'm seeing is you actually plateaued on a lift- and then deloaded the lift and then had success.
Sounds like anybody who is past newb gains and is now in the grind of straight up fighting for that extra 5 pounds on the bar. It comes and goes. It's normal.
And I suspect there was negligible impact from the amount of squats.
If you are pressing whole body bench- then you should be using your legs- so having stronger legs will never hurt your bench.0 -
After the prior year resulted in a 15 lb decrease in my bench, it was worth trying out something different. I don't intend to stop doing lower body stuff for any significant length of time. (I love squats and deadlifts.) But having stopped for just a couple of weeks has allowed me to add 30 lbs to my bench press.
Don't you know? If you even hypothesize about skipping (or even reducing) leg day, you're essentially saying that you intend to never do another leg exercise as long as you live. Obviously, this is blasphemous to anyone who believes they are in mortal danger to skipping even a single squat session.
I hope you learned your lesson here.
PS: I believe this had more to do with your deload "surgery recovery" than cutting out leg day, but am not agitated at the mere mention of the possibility that your theory is correct.0 -
I like this very much Mr. Pizza - - when people lay out facts and use that to model systems.
Rather than the other way around.
Yeah, but did you see the part where he mentioned skipping leg day???
To suggest doing that even for a short while is grounds for losing his bro card...
...because leg day.
(I should know. I lost my bro card recently because I couldn't squat *or* deadlift for two months while recovering from a piriformis issue. I was resigned to only leg extensions as a miserable replacement. Oh, sure, some would argue that injuries are "different"...but the brociety didn't see it that way.)0 -
The HST program I'm using involves frequent deloading as well as strategic deconditioning. (SD = not lifting at all for two weeks after each 6 weeks of progressive lifting.) I'd been through several cycles, and also over 2 months off completely to recover from hernia surgery, so if a deload was all it took, it would have happened last year, or when I started back after surgery.Soooooooo what I'm seeing is you actually plateaued on a lift- and then deloaded the lift and then had success.
Sounds like anybody who is past newb gains and is now in the grind of straight up fighting for that extra 5 pounds on the bar. It comes and goes. It's normal.
And I suspect there was negligible impact from the amount of squats.
If you are pressing whole body bench- then you should be using your legs- so having stronger legs will never hurt your bench.
it did happen after your deload after surgery- it just didn't happen when you wanted/expected it to.
they are very rigorous and vehement about the society- never EVER cross them.Oh, sure, some would argue that injuries are "different"...but the brociety didn't see it that way.)0
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