Female weight training - bulking but no fat loss?! HELP

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  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
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    From a BB.com thread today.......


    "You can but it's CNS adaption. Strength gain via muscle gain generally happens after CNS adaption is over and there is a surplus of calories to actually BUILD muscle"



    Exactly this, creating muscle requires a lot of energy, approx twice the energy it contains so it's extremely unlikely your body will waste all that energy in a deficit as it will already be doing what it can to preserve energy.

    For a total beginner you usually have a period of 6 weeks of pure CNS adaptions and reconstruction/reconfiguration of the muscles (assuming not much lifting has been done before) you can see some size increase by muscle atrophy recovery,increased glycogen stores/water content, inflammation etc. but it's unlikely you will build muscle and near impossible if you are in a deficit unless you are a genetic freak (there are indications of some but it's incredibly rare) and it will still be a minute amount.

    People need to realize building muscle is a difficult process, it's incredibly slow even while bulking when everything is working at optimal levels and there is a excess of energy going around.
    When it is that difficult/slow under optimal conditions just imagine how much worse/impossible it is when you are in a deficit, hormones dropping, recovery going down the drain, strength/endurance loss as glycogen stores start emptying,inflammation increasing, psychological responses to the deficit reducing your energy/ability to push further than before to conserve energy and again no surplus energy to waste on creating new energy consuming muscle tissue that has a high energy cost to create.

    I am aware I would need to increase my calorie and protein consumption massively to build a lot of muscle, I understand that. I'm not saying I'm huge.

    Ok so by the sounds of it I mean I have "gained strength". But there is definitely a visible difference in bicep, shoulder and back muscle, to the point that several of my friends have commented. This is why I am concerned, muscle, strength, whatever it is - it's starting to look masculine and I am worrying about that continuing haha!

    Also as a side note, as I am in a deficit and have been for over a month... any idea why am I not losing any weight or inches?

    Um..what do you mean build a lot of muscle. Most natural male bodybuilders would be lucky to add on 6-10lbs of muscles a year. Seeing as building/gaining muscle as a woman is super hard....I'm not sure you understand about bulking and such.

    Here are some links I suggest reading in regards to muscle and weight loss.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

    http://body-improvements.com/2013/09/04/can-you-build-muscle-and-lose-fat-at-the-same-time/

    http://body-improvements.com/2012/08/22/qa-how-can-i-go-about-building-some-muscle/

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html

    ETA: Also, you may be noticing muscles, etc as you lose the body fat. This doesn't mean muscles are gaining in size. And strength =/= size of muscle.

    And unless you are a guy, it's not "masculine."

    If you don't want to continue leaning out, then gain back the body fat.
  • wilsoje74
    wilsoje74 Posts: 1,720 Member
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    its probably water.

    youre not building muscle.

    keep it up...dont stop lifting, and you will see/feel the difference.

    Well I definitely am building muscle as I am using a 50%-100% weight increase on resistance machines compared the maximum I could do about a month ago. I am also tracking my "progress" photographically with snaptrack, I can definitely see my shoulders and back are more muscular. I'm all for toning up, and obviously I'm not exactly hench, I just don't want to get muscly but keep my fat haha. But yeah hopefully if I stick at it, I'll start shifting some body fat :smile:
    You can't build muscle eating that little. The muscle needs calories to develop. You can't build muscle on a deficit and you wouldn't build much in 3 weeks.
  • cmeiron
    cmeiron Posts: 1,599 Member
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    Oh this thread.

    First of all, muscles aren't "masculine". You can see definition in your arms because you actually are losing fat. You aren't seeing the scale move because water weight. Seconds, as other have pointed out, it takes a lot to build muscle if you are female. Like a lot of time and effort that you could not have done in 3 weeks.

    Are you measuring yourself?

    All that stuff in bold up there.
  • Galatea_Stone
    Galatea_Stone Posts: 2,037 Member
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    1) It's water retention, plain and simple. It's "the pump" so to speak. You haven't built any muscle.

    In three weeks, it is also very likely you've lost much in the way of fat, even it you're eating at a deficit.

    2) If you aren't weighing and measuring absolutely everything, and if you're snacking, even on healthy foods, you're eating more than you think. Possibly a lot more than you think.
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
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    You're retaining water. Not building a lot of muscle on 1200-1400 calories. It usually goes down in about 4 weeks so be patient.
  • frood
    frood Posts: 295 Member
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    I would like to know the secret of getting big muscles in 3 weeks. It took me a year and a half to get these deltoids!
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    its probably water.

    youre not building muscle.

    keep it up...dont stop lifting, and you will see/feel the difference.

    Well I definitely am building muscle as I am using a 50%-100% weight increase on resistance machines compared the maximum I could do about a month ago. I am also tracking my "progress" photographically with snaptrack, I can definitely see my shoulders and back are more muscular. I'm all for toning up, and obviously I'm not exactly hench, I just don't want to get muscly but keep my fat haha. But yeah hopefully if I stick at it, I'll start shifting some body fat :smile:

    Strength gains do not equate to muscle mass gains. If you are eating 1200-1400 calories a day and lifting weights you are retaining water in your muscles both for repair and for storage of glycogen but you are not gaining muscle mass. You can easily put on 5 pounds of water weight from weight training.

    You can gain significant increases in strength just by training your CNS through repetitive motion. Much like if you practice throwing a baseball you will eventually be able to throw it much faster and much more accurately than before without having to have gained muscle.

    The apparent gain in size and firmness of your muscles with training again is due to water retention. The retained water makes your muscles swell so they look considerably bigger and feel considerably harder, but there is no extra tissue there.

    As other posters have said that initial swelling will subside in a month or two. You aren't bulking. Saying that you are gaining muscle because your muscle looks bigger is like someone whose face has swollen up because they fell down stairs saying that they are worried that they have put a lot of fat on in their face. Your muscles are swollen, not bigger.
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
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    For what it's worth, you'll earn zero goodwill here by calling muscle masculine. Actually scratch that. Negative goodwill.
  • whitebalance
    whitebalance Posts: 1,654 Member
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    Ok so by the sounds of it I mean I have "gained strength". But there is definitely a visible difference in bicep, shoulder and back muscle, to the point that several of my friends have commented. This is why I am concerned, muscle, strength, whatever it is - it's starting to look masculine and I am worrying about that continuing haha!
    When you push your muscles beyond what they're conditioned for (i.e., progressive overload, in strength training terms), they become inflamed and swell up -- not unlike your body's reaction to a sprain or strain, although obviously not as severe. Your body sends more resources to the muscles to heal and repair them. This is what people are talking about on this thread when they say "it's just water."

    That swelling is temporary -- again, similar to a sprain or strain. If you were to stop strength training for a week or so, the swelling would begin to go down and you would look less "muscly," to use your earlier term. It's not "building muscle." It's just that what's there is inflamed.
    Also as a side note, as I am in a deficit and have been for over a month... any idea why am I not losing any weight or inches?
    Usually this indicates that you're not really in a deficit -- that either your intake is underestimated or your output is overestimated. I can't speak to your specific circumstances, but can tell you that if I were eating 1200-1400 calories a day and lifting heavy weights for an hour and a half a day plus doing an hour of cardio, six days a week, I wouldn't have the energy to move my fingers across a keyboard. So that's what I'd look at first -- accuracy in logging, including "cheat days" and any other anomalies.

    Since you're going to say next that of course you're logging everything 100% accurately, I'll also mention that the "water" mentioned above does in fact weigh something. The swelling mentioned above could easily be masking a month's worth of actual weight loss.
  • whitebalance
    whitebalance Posts: 1,654 Member
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    For what it's worth, you'll earn zero goodwill here by calling muscle masculine. Actually scratch that. Negative goodwill.
    Also, this. And calling it "bulky" will usually draw some ridicule too.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    For what it's worth, you'll earn zero goodwill here by calling muscle masculine. Actually scratch that. Negative goodwill.
    Also, this. And calling it "bulky" will usually draw some ridicule too.

    Honestly I think the most insulting thing about it is just this notion that somehow putting on muscle is so easy that you can just do it by accident without wanting to do it at all.

    No, really, no. Even for a man eating at a caloric surplus in the prime of his life doing an intensive hypertrophy routine of constant weight lifting they will not put on a measurable amount of muscle in 3 weeks. Muscle gain is slow and hard won even in the optimum circumstances.
  • psych101
    psych101 Posts: 1,842 Member
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    You're retaining water. Not building a lot of muscle on 1200-1400 calories. It usually goes down in about 4 weeks so be patient.

    Yup this ^^ Wait for the whoosh...

    There's a ton of great advice on information on this thread :)
  • lrmall01
    lrmall01 Posts: 377 Member
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    I am starting to build masculine shoulders, arms and thighs which is not a look I was going for!

    Can you maybe send me your workout routine? I'm having difficulty accomplishing this as a 35 year old male so perhaps you can help me out since it is so easy for you to bulk up! :smile:
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    I am starting to build masculine shoulders, arms and thighs which is not a look I was going for!

    Can you maybe send me your workout routine? I'm having difficulty accomplishing this as a 35 year old male so perhaps you can help me out since it is so easy for you to bulk up! :smile:

    Seriously. 3 months of heavy lifting and zero muscle gain here. At a caloric deficit so wasn't expecting to build muscle though.
  • little_gemm
    little_gemm Posts: 11 Member
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    For what it's worth, you'll earn zero goodwill here by calling muscle masculine. Actually scratch that. Negative goodwill.
    Also, this. And calling it "bulky" will usually draw some ridicule too.

    I wasn't directly calling muscle masculine. I was specifically referring to MY body and proportions, no need to take it personally. I'm all for strengthening my muscles, hence why I'm doing weight training in the first place, my main problem is that I'm not losing fat to go with it yet so feel a bit 'puffy'. But as everyone has explained, it'll just be water. But thank you for your negative goodwill :)
  • little_gemm
    little_gemm Posts: 11 Member
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    Ok thanks guys, a lot of good information here (and a few sarcastic/ passive aggressive comments). I didn't really understand the difference between gaining strength and muscle, and therefore I guess kind of explained the situation wrong. But good to know this puffy feeling is just water/swelling. I'll continue with my training and hopefully I'll start losing some fat soon.
  • obum88
    obum88 Posts: 262 Member
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    Inches?
    Are you mentally prepared to look like you weight 120 but keep seeing 134 on the scale?
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
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    For what it's worth, you'll earn zero goodwill here by calling muscle masculine. Actually scratch that. Negative goodwill.
    Also, this. And calling it "bulky" will usually draw some ridicule too.

    Honestly I think the most insulting thing about it is just this notion that somehow putting on muscle is so easy that you can just do it by accident without wanting to do it at all.

    No, really, no. Even for a man eating at a caloric surplus in the prime of his life doing an intensive hypertrophy routine of constant weight lifting they will not put on a measurable amount of muscle in 3 weeks. Muscle gain is slow and hard won even in the optimum circumstances.

    Yeah but I can excuse that as simple ignorance.
  • lrmall01
    lrmall01 Posts: 377 Member
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    my main problem is that I'm not losing fat to go with it yet so feel a bit 'puffy'.

    How are you measuring your fat loss?

    Perhaps you aren't building as much muscle as you think and you are actually losing some fat that has been hiding the muscles you already have.
  • Rogiefreida
    Rogiefreida Posts: 567 Member
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    Ok so by the sounds of it I mean I have "gained strength". But there is definitely a visible difference in bicep, shoulder and back muscle, to the point that several of my friends have commented. This is why I am concerned, muscle, strength, whatever it is - it's starting to look masculine and I am worrying about that continuing haha!
    When you push your muscles beyond what they're conditioned for (i.e., progressive overload, in strength training terms), they become inflamed and swell up -- not unlike your body's reaction to a sprain or strain, although obviously not as severe. Your body sends more resources to the muscles to heal and repair them. This is what people are talking about on this thread when they say "it's just water."

    That swelling is temporary -- again, similar to a sprain or strain. If you were to stop strength training for a week or so, the swelling would begin to go down and you would look less "muscly," to use your earlier term. It's not "building muscle." It's just that what's there is inflamed.
    Also as a side note, as I am in a deficit and have been for over a month... any idea why am I not losing any weight or inches?
    Usually this indicates that you're not really in a deficit -- that either your intake is underestimated or your output is overestimated. I can't speak to your specific circumstances, but can tell you that if I were eating 1200-1400 calories a day and lifting heavy weights for an hour and a half a day plus doing an hour of cardio, six days a week, I wouldn't have the energy to move my fingers across a keyboard. So that's what I'd look at first -- accuracy in logging, including "cheat days" and any other anomalies.

    Since you're going to say next that of course you're logging everything 100% accurately, I'll also mention that the "water" mentioned above does in fact weigh something. The swelling mentioned above could easily be masking a month's worth of actual weight loss.

    QFT. I was at a deficit eating 1700 calories a day and lifting 4-5 days a week plus a couple cardio sessions plus my job and taking care of my injured husband and I could barely keep my eyes open. You are probably eating more than you think you are.

    Use a food scale, measure everything. I was in the same place and thought for sure that I didn't need to weigh everything because I was good at eyeballing it, but my weight stayed the same for a loooong time. When I started weighing and measuring everything, I started losing. It works.

    And in the event that you are measuring EVERYTHING, then it is water. Grow some patience, it's not a race and if you don't have much to lose, it's a very tedious process. Being over by just a few calories everyday (i.e. not logging accurately) will add up to no weight loss.

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