Calories in vs. calories out?

jmangini · May 2014

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

labradorlvr · May 2014

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.

:

Acg67 · May 2014

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

LOL

1. Has no bearing on your initial question and how to you know every single diet of every single competitor?
2. Someone doesn't understand the energy balance equation.
3. What makes one an expert? And again has no bearing on your initial question
4. See PSMF
5. Yes you could eat any of those things and lose weight
6. Yes

Silly questions are silly

Shropshire1959 · May 2014

Hey, they are not silly questions ...good on ya for asking but prepare to be mauled by the local Junta who seem to think that it as easy as In .vs. Out.

I don't know the answer either but I'm I'm not binkered enough to think that it's as simple as some around here think.

Keep Thinking and Keep and Open Mind.

haleema93 · May 2014

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

i'm not an expert on any of these matters but personally i think as long as you reduce your portion sizes and dont go over your daily calorie allowance you'd be fine. Its healthier to make sure you're eating fruit and veg and protein as well as all the other important food groups. everyones body is different..
once you reduce your portion sizes people realise they can get more for their calories eating the right food, hence most people change their diets and food consumption.
But some good questions there

i've often thought about some of the questions myself.

jmangini · May 2014

Hey, they are not silly questions ...good on ya for asking but prepare to be mauled by the local Junta who seem to think that it as easy as In .vs. Out.

I don't know the answer either but I'm I'm not binkered enough to think that it's as simple as some around here think.

Keep Thinking and Keep and Open Mind.

Thanks for your support, and Yes I totally expected an onslaught of negative angry responses as usual. lol. There are a lot of people on here who love to bash and debate. I'm used to it now. It really bothered initially, as I thought this community would be more supportive. I don't understand why all these experts are on this site. If they know everything about everything, then they probably have better use of their time.

Acg67 · May 2014

Hey, they are not silly questions ...good on ya for asking but prepare to be mauled by the local Junta who seem to think that it as easy as In .vs. Out.

I don't know the answer either but I'm I'm not binkered enough to think that it's as simple as some around here think.

Keep Thinking and Keep and Open Mind.

Examples of silliness

Talking in absolutes

"why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? "

"If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? "

"And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? "

Shropshire1959 · May 2014

Hey, they are not silly questions ...good on ya for asking but prepare to be mauled by the local Junta who seem to think that it as easy as In .vs. Out.

I don't know the answer either but I'm I'm not binkered enough to think that it's as simple as some around here think.

Keep Thinking and Keep and Open Mind.

Thanks for your support, and Yes I totally expected an onslaught of negative angry responses as usual. lol. There are a lot of people on here who love to bash and debate. I'm used to it now. It really bothered initially, as I thought this community would be more supportive. I don't understand why all these experts are on this site. If they know everything about everything, then they probably have better use of their time.

shyfranklinstein · May 2014

Are we just beating a dead horse now?

jasonmh630 · May 2014

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.

:

May not be eating enough... Are you eating your exercise calories back?

Serah87 · May 2014

There are a lot of people on here who love to bash and debate.

And you are one of them. JS!!! :bigsmile:

SideSteel · May 2014

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

Macronutrients matter for body composition purposes. Micronutrients effect health. And mostly, because satiety, preference, and gym performance are significantly important variables and these will all be impacted by food selection.

None of this changes the fact that calories are fundamentally responsible for changes in weight.

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

Too many questions to address here but suffice it to say that none of this changes the fact that energy balance is fundamentally responsible for changes in weight. Hormonal issues can effect energy balance.

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

See my response to question 1 as this is basically addressed.

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

Once again see question 1. You're presenting scenarios that don't remotely resemble real life dieting scenarios. There's a grey area that most people land in.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excluding-the-middle.html

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

Meal frequency doesn't have a significant effect on metabolism.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/meal-frequency-and-energy-balance-research-review.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

Will it work for what?

SteveyBrule · May 2014

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.

:

May not be eating enough... Are you eating your exercise calories back?

No such thing as starvation hindering weight loss.

Faye_Anderson · May 2014

Thanks for your support, and Yes I totally expected an onslaught of negative angry responses as usual. lol. There are a lot of people on here who love to bash and debate. I'm used to it now. It really bothered initially, as I thought this community would be more supportive. I don't understand why all these experts are on this site. If they know everything about everything, then they probably have better use of their time.

This is a very supportive community and most of these people are "experts"as they have been here a long time and took the time to find out what works, proved it works with their results and then have to face post upon post about how calories aren't equal, we must eat clean, all the special snowflakes for whom science doesn't apply.
The only responses that are ever negative or angry usually come from an OP when they've got good, helpful replies that disagree with the initial post :flowerforyou:

SteveyBrule · May 2014

Hey homie, I'm with you. I think the disparity comes from what you opt to lose. The reason we don't see bodybuilders cutting on a diet of 3x100 calorie bags of cookies is that their body is then more likely to consume muscle for energy.

The reason I cut calories AND eat healthy is your body, assuming a completely homogenous diet of nutrients, will opt for eating muscle to give you energy, it's a great source of that. The goal with eating clean/healthy is to mitigate what your body chooses to use for energy. If you give it healthy fats and lots of protein, it'll burn that plus your body fat for energy and ideally preserve muscle.

cwolfman13 · May 2014

In the hierarchy of things that are important to weight loss, calories in/calories out is numero uno...anything else is secondary. I personally put a premium on nutrition as well, but that's me and I'm doing this largely for my healthy and overall well being, not just to lose weight.

In RE to getting a competition physique, etc...I wouldn't really know but I would assume at that point, other factors would come into play...but c'mon...most people here are just trying to get to a healthy weight and BF%, not necessarily a competition body. Most people here aren't competitive athletes are attempting to become competitive athletes...when you really start delving into nutrient timing, and quality of nutrients, I think it makes a huge difference for performance, etc...but the average fat *kitten* like I was who just wants to lose some weight...CI/CO works just fine and is pretty damned simple.

omma_to_3 · May 2014

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

Macronutrients matter for body composition purposes. Micronutrients effect health. And mostly, because satiety, preference, and gym performance are significantly important variables and these will all be impacted by food selection.

None of this changes the fact that calories are fundamentally responsible for changes in weight.

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

Too many questions to address here but suffice it to say that none of this changes the fact that energy balance is fundamentally responsible for changes in weight. Hormonal issues can effect energy balance.

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

See my response to question 1 as this is basically addressed.

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

Once again see question 1. You're presenting scenarios that don't remotely resemble real life dieting scenarios. There's a grey area that most people land in.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excluding-the-middle.html

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

Meal frequency doesn't have a significant effect on metabolism.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/meal-frequency-and-energy-balance-research-review.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

Will it work for what?

QFT :-) Hormones affect your metabolism which changes the energy equation.

prettygirlstorm1 · May 2014

Wish I was brave enough to experiment with this theory. I would rather have a McDonald;s cheeseburger that to have a baked chicken breast or a bag of chips and dip than steamed vegetables. Loved the post!!!

jasonmh630 · May 2014

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.

:

May not be eating enough... Are you eating your exercise calories back?

No such thing as starvation hindering weight loss.

Thank you, doctor...

Maybe not, but If she's not eating even a portion of her exercise calories back, then THAT could be causing road blocks. If she's on a 1200 cal/day diet and burns +/- 500 cals, then her net total is too low.

tennisdude2004 · May 2014

Bump

SteveyBrule · May 2014

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.

:

May not be eating enough... Are you eating your exercise calories back?

No such thing as starvation hindering weight loss.

Thank you, doctor.

You're welcome. I bill out at $86/word, but you'll have the invoice shortly.

But seriously, when you starve your body burns calories and you lose weight. That's it. No such thing as not eating and maintaining weight. You could eat 900 calories/day and exercise and lose weight. Your body won't stop doing it.

jasonmh630 · May 2014

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.

:

May not be eating enough... Are you eating your exercise calories back?

No such thing as starvation hindering weight loss.

Thank you, doctor.

You're welcome. I bill out at $86/word, but you'll have the invoice shortly.

But seriously, when you starve your body burns calories and you lose weight. That's it. No such thing as not eating and maintaining weight.

Well done, sir. It's always nice to see sarcasm matched with sarcasm.

ken_m · May 2014

hello i am here to introduce myself my name is ken and i enjoy ecxercise!

lets discuss calories ok?

3dogsrunning · May 2014

In the hierarchy of things that are important to weight loss, calories in/calories out is numero uno...anything else is secondary. I personally put a premium on nutrition as well, but that's me and I'm doing this largely for my healthy and overall well being, not just to lose weight.

In RE to getting a competition physique, etc...I wouldn't really know but I would assume at that point, other factors would come into play...but c'mon...most people here are just trying to get to a healthy weight and BF%, not necessarily a competition body. Most people here aren't competitive athletes are attempting to become competitive athletes...when you really start delving into nutrient timing, and quality of nutrients, I think it makes a huge difference for performance, etc...but the average fat *kitten* like I was who just wants to lose some weight...CI/CO works just fine and is pretty damned simple.

This pretty much sums it up. In any CICO topic, most people will make the distinction between "losing weight" and "health". When we get down to simply losing weight, CICO is primary, anything else is secondary.
That doesn't mean it is the ONLY consideration.

You will find on any CICO thread that most people who agree that CICO rules for weight loss will also point out that for health, body composition, fitness, etc., that there is more to consider.

As for the bodybuilder question, it comes down to the same thing, while CICO rules, they are still concerned with body composition and focus on macros as well. That, and well, being satiated. 1500 calories of red meat, chips and cake won't hit your macros or keep you full very long. Bodybuilders are already lean, and it is harder to cut fat when you are lean. You have fewer calories to play with and a smaller margin of error to maintain a deficit. It is extremely difficult to get enough protein, fat and carbs when you have a small calorie goal so you have to make choices.
Not to mention - health isn't always the number one concern for those competing. In most sports, you are in peak condition at competition time (hopefully). For many bodybuilders, the opposite is true. They may be lean but they aren't always the pinacle of health and wellness

And meal timing is irrelevent.

mustgetmuscles1 · May 2014

E=mc2

bkenn2001 · May 2014

I followed the in and out rules pretty religiously for the first twenty pounds but then realized that the type of food has a huge impact on how fast you lose weight. Since calories are a unit of measure, cake calories and carrot calories could be interpreted as equal. As far as measurement goes, they basically are. However eating 1600 calories a day of delicious triple-layer cake with the occasional strawberry will have a totally different effect than eating 1600 calories a day of sensible healthy foods. Both volume wise and nutrition wise, no one will debate that eating cake every day, or for that matter eating nothing but oatmeal, will have the same effect on your overall fitness levels or the same effect on your weight. I have to agree that the kinds of foods you eat to gain your calories is equally as important as what you do to burn them. I think the strict in then out interpretation is too broad unless qualified by what those calories consist of. If I were a betting man, I would lay my money that the strict interpretation of calories in, calories out can be somewhat misleading if calories in consists of foods that provide no nutritional value, minimal to no fiber yet have a calorie count attached.

sarafischbach9 · May 2014

Personally, I have never had any problems losing weight on just a calorie deficit. Even on small deficits I've been able to lose. I think if you are weighing in everyday, its hard to see the trend of weight loss unless you're one of those people that charts your daily weight on a spreadsheet and then you see the general trend going down. The only time I have seen stalls in my weight loss has been related to my monthly cycles, about the third week in ( one week before TOM ) and then the weight drops off and weight loss resumes. I think hormones can play a role, but I'm not sure exactly to what extent.

I would say I averaged around 1400-1600 while losing weight this time around and was steadily losing weight. Just on a deficit. I eat in moderation; the only real thing I have cut out is fast food and restaurant eating. I think by eating out less ( eating out has a lot of calories ) has really helped me and will help me maintain.

I think everything is important ( nutrition, calorie deficit, macronutrients, hormones, etc etc ) when assessing weight loss/maintenance/weight gain. Weight is calories in verses calories out, but there are many factors that still influence your body. If you are not losing weight on 1200 calories, check to see if you are even eating enough for your activities, or maybe you are not weighing and measuring accurately. Someone eating 1200 calories and not seeing any results may also just be impatient; sometimes it takes a while for things to kick in, or they are retaining water for some reason. Not just one thing or the other; it's a big gray area and I know how much people hate the gray and ambiguous.

prattiger65 · May 2014

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

Macronutrients matter for body composition purposes. Micronutrients effect health. And mostly, because satiety, preference, and gym performance are significantly important variables and these will all be impacted by food selection.

None of this changes the fact that calories are fundamentally responsible for changes in weight.

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

Too many questions to address here but suffice it to say that none of this changes the fact that energy balance is fundamentally responsible for changes in weight. Hormonal issues can effect energy balance.

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

See my response to question 1 as this is basically addressed.

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

Once again see question 1. You're presenting scenarios that don't remotely resemble real life dieting scenarios. There's a grey area that most people land in.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excluding-the-middle.html

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

Meal frequency doesn't have a significant effect on metabolism.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/meal-frequency-and-energy-balance-research-review.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

Will it work for what?

This cant be repeated enough. Game, set, match.

trekkie_bbs · May 2014

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

In my personal opinion that is based on what I have seen in myself yes it is as simple as calories in vs out.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

Some foods cause water retention, gas, bloating. Being any of those will seriously hinder your abs from showing. In my opinion eating a balanced diet or as close as you can makes you more healthy. If you are going to work your rear off to lose the weight then why would you not try and be more healthy? Just my 2¢.

Just look on the net you will see that some runners are now getting heart disease because they ate what they wanted vs what was healthy. In my opinion however this does not take into effect the heart beating to hard, the environment, and most importantly the persons genetics.

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

Hormones do play a huge role and so does your mental state, health, stress level, activity level, and so much more in my personal opinion. No 2 people are alike so you will never have 1 plan that works for 100% of everyone.

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

You can. I have lost 70 pounds eating at McDonalds. Many others have done the same thing. I felt like crap and was constantly bloated. My health was not bad but I didn't feel good either.

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

Protein rich diets work for some. For others they can be deadly. Again just my 2¢ but why would you want to only eat protein? Common since says you need a reasonably balanced diet. Vegans need protein for health reasons and meat eaters need vegetable matter for health reasons.

Although I am against the Atkins Diet plan for many reasons, some of them do lose weight and become successful at it. So it does work but so does starving yourself to an inch of your life. Just doesn't seam sustainable when you look at it that way does it? Again that is just my opinion and I do NOT endorse doing anything silly like that.

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

Eating throughout the day is AWESOME! You feel better, you don't really get starved and it's a method to help people control binge eating in my opinion. Not everyone is the same so what works for one person may totally fail for another. That is why there are so many different diets out there.

I have lost weight on McDonalds cheeseburgers. For me I felt bad. I didn't have the energy and felt soar in my joints. Was that because of McDonalds or because I didn't have the proper nutrition? No idea. But with a more rounded diet that I enjoy now I feel GREAT! and have lost another 50 pounds (30 of them were from my original 70)

I also take vitamins to help me stay feeling better, to give me more energy, and because I'm almost 40. Do they help or are they just crap? For me they help in my personal opinion. I feel better, I have energy, and I look better than I have ever looked. Do I have proof they are helping me? No. Is this my opinion ONLY? yes.

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

Yes. Many people do this. I think it's a bad idea for so many reasons ranging from unpleasant dreams, gas, having to run to the bathroom, insomnia from too much sugar, and other personal reasons that for me this would be horrible. I eat my last meal at least 4 hours before bead. For me this works out the best. Would I ever tell someone to never eat before bed? No. But I would warn them that I caution against it only because from my own experience it's not a smart thing to do.

In my personal opinion working all day with low insulin levels can become dangerous to the point of fainting. Not everyone is perfectly healthy and eating this way in my opinion is just not smart.

I can NOT reiterate enough that these statements are my personal opinion. I am NOT a Doctor, Nutritionist, or anyone with a background in medicine. I am however experienced with several of these situations and draw my conclusions from what I have read that may be wrong, to personal trial and error that worked for me in my mental state.

To put my opinion in prospective if you do not agree with it that is fine and nothing is wrong with that. It is nothing more than my personal opinion so use it at your own risk.

GothyFaery · May 2014

Throwing my two cents in. Calories in vs. calories out works for weight loss. For body comp it's a lot more comlicated. Strictly for weight loss or weight gain, calories in vs calories out works every time (provided there are no medical problems).

eimaj5575 · May 2014

All I know is my experience..... I ate french fries, drank beer, ate anything I wanted but cut portions and stayed in my calorie goal. I lost all my weight doing so. Now I have lost the weight, but I am not tone. I suspect that i need to change my diet to be healtier along with my cardio/ lifting routine to obtain a toner look. So calories in vs calories out YES i DID lose my weight. Calories in vs calories out NO i did NOT get a fit tone body.

Calories in vs. calories out?

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