NEWSFLASH: McDonald’s existed back when I was a kid

Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.

Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.

Yeah, actually, that is the argument though. Companies are in business to make money for their shareholders, period. Providing what the customer wants is the best way to do that. Unfortunately for your argument, consumers want McDonalds. If they didn't, the company wouldn't be in business. That's the way it works.

And what's this about consumer rights? Consumers have a right to want what they want. They have a right to buy what kind of food they want. I don't see a violation of rights here at all....

Don't worry though. You have rights too. You can choose not to eat at McDs. There now...problem solved.

Why? I can choose to have their salad with their calorie-counted dressing.

Look, these are large companies that sell cheap food. Many people at cheap food, many of those people don't know a lot about nutrition. The reason we know McDonald's is bad for us is not because they told us out of love, it's because consumer rights groups worked hard and people watched documentaries about what is in their food. Back when Supersize Me was made, they did not display their nutritional information, for example.

Companies change when their consumers demand it. It's not that hard to understand.

Yes, you can choose that.

Yes, companies change when the majority of their customers demand it.

No, the majority of McDs customers are NOT demanding this change.

Thus, McDs doesn't feel compelled to change.

You're right. It is easy to understand.

Actually... many people at McD's are. That's why you see so many changes, such as... salads... heck, mcd's out here were selling steamed broccoli for a while. Strange bright green supersize broccoli, but that's par for the course.

Ok. So then what's your point? They are meeting their consumers needs. Customers still want burgers and fries, and they provide that, too. What more do you want from them? A complete overhaul of the menu? Customers will need to demand it in mass and that's not happening at the moment.

Do you want more consumers to rise up and demand the change?

I'm saying that personal responsibility is an easy thing to say, but people who have more of a social consciousness also try to look out for people who don't have access to the same information as them and also try to demand better options for everyone. It doesn't hurt the company to make stuff that is better for consumers. They will sell any crap if people don't stand up for themselves and each other.

Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.

Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.

Yeah, actually, that is the argument though. Companies are in business to make money for their shareholders, period. Providing what the customer wants is the best way to do that. Unfortunately for your argument, consumers want McDonalds. If they didn't, the company wouldn't be in business. That's the way it works.

And what's this about consumer rights? Consumers have a right to want what they want. They have a right to buy what kind of food they want. I don't see a violation of rights here at all....

Don't worry though. You have rights too. You can choose not to eat at McDs. There now...problem solved.

Why? I can choose to have their salad with their calorie-counted dressing.

Look, these are large companies that sell cheap food. Many people at cheap food, many of those people don't know a lot about nutrition. The reason we know McDonald's is bad for us is not because they told us out of love, it's because consumer rights groups worked hard and people watched documentaries about what is in their food. Back when Supersize Me was made, they did not display their nutritional information, for example.

Companies change when their consumers demand it. It's not that hard to understand.

Yes, you can choose that.

Yes, companies change when the majority of their customers demand it.

No, the majority of McDs customers are NOT demanding this change.

Thus, McDs doesn't feel compelled to change.

You're right. It is easy to understand.

Actually... many people at McD's are. That's why you see so many changes, such as... salads... heck, mcd's out here were selling steamed broccoli for a while. Strange bright green supersize broccoli, but that's par for the course.

Ok. So then what's your point? They are meeting their consumers needs. Customers still want burgers and fries, and they provide that, too. What more do you want from them? A complete overhaul of the menu? Customers will need to demand it in mass and that's not happening at the moment.

Do you want more consumers to rise up and demand the change?

I'm saying that personal responsibility is an easy thing to say, but people who have more of a social consciousness also try to look out for people who don't have access to the same information as them and also try to demand better options for everyone. It doesn't hurt the company to make stuff that is better for consumers. They will sell any crap if people don't stand up for themselves and each other.

I am a big believer that if everyone minded their OWN business, the world would be an amazingly happy place.

And because this is too awesome not to share

OMGS! Thank you! That was definitely, too awesome not to share. Lol

For the "McDonald's is EVIL crowd":

You do realize that if you went to a small corner mom-and-pop restaurant and ordered burgers and fries....you'd still be eating the same amount of calories right that you'd get at McD's right? You do realize you'd still get fat if you did that every day right?

I would like you to frame this argument replacing McDonald's with the faces of those Southern Moms and Pops that serve fried porkbellies, chitlins, ribs, corncobs soaked in transfat "butter."

Go and get your protest face on and "occupy" the street corners in front of those restaurants. Call them evil. Thought not. It's just a lot easier to "occupy" evil, faceless companies.

Nobody is saying any of that though.

... I mean, you are I guess, but you're trying to say other people are saying those things and nobody is. Nobody has called for a boycott of McDonalds, even, except the people who say that it's unhealthy so just don't eat there instead of asking them to change.

Okay, maybe you're not calling for a boycott; but you're certainly holding McD's to a higher standard than your average mom and pops as evidenced by what you posted earlier....

"Companies have some responsibility to consumers. For example, they can't poison you. The next step is to ask them not to serve ridiculously processed crap to people. No, people don't have to eat it, but removing responsibility from the company is ridiculous. Or, to put it another way, Republican."

Or were you including every locally owned restaurant as part of your argument when you say "companies?"

That's an interesting angle.

Locally owned restaurants should obviously not serve crap either, but then that's for that local community to focus on, learn about and lobby together.

McDonalds is a global issue, so the global community reacts to it.

Again ... no. The choice to eat fast food or not is personal. The choice to drink large or small beverages is personal. The portion size I buy is a personal choice as well.

The only reason why you know that is IN the food, the only reason you know the information you can use to educate yourself, is because people more socially conscious than you have been working hard to make McDonalds more accountable to the consumer.

You can eat whatever you want. You have more of a choice because people are spreading information.

To put it simply, how do you get the information you use to base your personal choices from? Why does McDonalds give a lot more information and serve more salads now?

Educating myself is a personal responsibility. Congratulations, you're now arguing with yourself as well.

Salads were on the McDonalds menu before you were born ... yet they still account for less than 3% of sales. Fish appeared on their menu in 1962. Your definition of "now" is as misguided as your rants.

I think maybe you don't enjoy critically looking at problems. Which is fine, but McDonalds is part of the cheap fast food that is making people obese - it's unhealthy food that is cheap. They do have some duty towards their customers not to feed them crap. Yes, McDonalds existed when you were a kid. People became more and more obese during your lifetime so far.

Your comments about the Occupy Wall Street movements are similar.

It's possible to lose weight, but there's no known cure for conservatism/libertarianism/whatever it is that stops you seeing things in context. As Stephen Colbert pointed out, "Reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Nobody forces you to eat fast food. Just saying

Your view is simplistic. Making everything expensive isn't the answer. Making nutritious food affordable is the solution food activists want. Yes, it's your choice. But a poor family doesn't have many choices. They should be able to afford enough fresh food to feed their family and meet their nutritional needs. But that's not the way it is. Mac & Cheese, processed soups, rice, potatoes, etc. are their options. Carbs & Starches. Nary a green to be seen because it's expensive. Fast food falls into the realm of cheap, processed food. Most calorie for your buck.

Now of course, that is a very broad generalization about government programs and has nothing to do with McDonald's. I feel bad for McDonald's. They are the go-to scapegoat for the "big bad fast food monsters". No one demonizes Taco Bell or Subway like they do McDonald's.
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McDonalds doesn't get hurt feelings or even lose money by making healthier products.

Do you work in the finance department at McDs?

Well that would be an interesting twist!

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say...NO.

Which means you probably haven't run a cost benefit analysis on each individual healthier item sold at McDs, cross checked by state (if we are being pretty general, otherwise each store) and country? And, then you probably also haven't run a cost benefit analysis of integrating the healthier items in the meal choices providing that's what consumers even want. Per the latter point, this is debatable considering the fact that McDs has struggled to sell it's healthier products...

And I'm going to out there on a limb and say you haven't a cost benefit analysis of a total menu overhaul....

Considering you haven't done all this, I'm pretty sure you can't confidently say that McDs doesn't stand to lose money by making healthier products.

You're making a completely speculative argument in favour of McDs profits, and you're willing to make those assumptions because you want to even avoid risk to McDs profits, on the basis that McDs profits are more important than the human beings who eat their food.

What a strange argument.

Well, it's sure as heck a lot better than making a naive and unsupported claim that the company doesn't lose money on its healthy products. Just because I pointed out that you have no basis for knowing what they do and do not make money from, doesn't make it a strange argument. It's not even an argument, I'm merely pointing out that you can't really use that point because you don't really know...

And, yes, I believe that it's important for companies to be profitable. It's important to the employees, it's important to the tax payers and it's important to the shareholders.

I am pretty confident that McD's has crunched every number that there is to crunch against the forecasted demand for certain products. If they can't make it work because the demand isn't there, that's not their problem.

I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!! When I ate fast food, it was a choice. I gained weight and it was totally my choice. However, I also had/have the resources to make better choices. It's not just about education - it's about taking a hungry kid and making them feel full - and McD's and other fast food giants who provide calorie laden foods at a cheap price point take advantage (not necessarily intentionally) of that fact. there are kids who might get two meals a day during the school year and if my kid is hungry, i'm not so concerned with nutrition as quieting a hungry belly so my kid can sleep. i have worked for years with these families...it isn't always about 'choice' and 'responsibility.' what i am talking about has nothing to do with people on MFP who have time and resources to devote to health. i'm talking about people who we work with to grow community gardens and teach them to prepare fresh food because they don't know how because they have never had it and live in food deserts of the 'inner city' without access to produce besides the overripe bananas at the gas station, but can find as much fast food as your heart desires within a quarter mile of home, but the grocery is over 5 miles away and they have no car. the issue is bigger than just 'you choose or you don't choose.' maybe you, but not everyone.

McDonald's existed when I was a kid, too. We went twice a year.

My mother had the time to grow her own vegetable garden, she spent hours in the kitchen chopping, mixing, cooking. She had been taught how to cook by her mother and she knew every short cut (and way to stretch a buck) possible.

Many women work outside the home now.They are up at 6 a.m., pick up the kids from daycare or afterschool, drive them home, face an evening of making dinner, doing laundry, supervising homework (which could just be a matter of letting the kids sit at the dining room table while they work.)

Stopping at McDonald's on the way home means that there is one less task, which means there is time for the endless number of tasks that most women have.

Now of course, that is a very broad generalization about government programs and has nothing to do with McDonald's. I feel bad for McDonald's. They are the go-to scapegoat for the "big bad fast food monsters". No one demonizes Taco Bell or Subway like they do McDonald's.
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McDonalds doesn't get hurt feelings or even lose money by making healthier products.

Do you work in the finance department at McDs?

Well that would be an interesting twist!

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say...NO.

Which means you probably haven't run a cost benefit analysis on each individual healthier item sold at McDs, cross checked by state (if we are being pretty general, otherwise each store) and country? And, then you probably also haven't run a cost benefit analysis of integrating the healthier items in the meal choices providing that's what consumers even want. Per the latter point, this is debatable considering the fact that McDs has struggled to sell it's healthier products...

And I'm going to out there on a limb and say you haven't a cost benefit analysis of a total menu overhaul....

Considering you haven't done all this, I'm pretty sure you can't confidently say that McDs doesn't stand to lose money by making healthier products.

You're making a completely speculative argument in favour of McDs profits, and you're willing to make those assumptions because you want to even avoid risk to McDs profits, on the basis that McDs profits are more important than the human beings who eat their food.

What a strange argument.

Well, it's sure as heck a lot better than making a naive and unsupported claim that the company doesn't lose money on its healthy products. Just because I pointed out that you have no basis for knowing what they do and do not make money from, doesn't make it a strange argument. It's not even an argument, I'm merely pointing out that you can't really use that point because you don't really know...

And, yes, I believe that it's important for companies to be profitable. It's important to the employees, it's important to the tax payers and it's important to the shareholders.

I am pretty confident that McD's has crunched every number that there is to crunch against the forecasted demand for certain products. If they can't make it work because the demand isn't there, that's not their problem.

Your attitude towards consumers is duly noted.

Reforming McDonalds instead of doing what you told me to do if I didn't like it, which was to stay away, actually preserves more jobs. If people want to eat healthy and can eat healthier there, then they will go there.

Frankly, we've had this argument before. on page 9.