Extra calories on lifting days?
Replies
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I didn't look deep into OP's background but just saying it's possible under certain circumstances. Maybe not for OP but in the right circumstances it is.
That would really depend on the time frame. If the time frame is a number of years, it's do-able. If they're talking about doing it in a couple of months it's not. Also what if OP is a growing teenager? We don't know that from their post but if they are they could put on 15 pounds just by growing a few inches taller.
She said don't expect to put on 15 lbs of muscle [without putting on some fat].
A teenager that needs to do cardio to keep with their kids and has yard work? I suppose it's possible, but highly unlikely.
ETA: And whose profile says they are a 30yr old male.
It's an exception and not the rule- and nothing about the OP indicated he was that exception.0 -
Jorocka, you know a lot of people who use the word "clean" along with the words "food" or "diet" or even "Bulk" aren't talking about calories. They're talking about quality of the food. Gummie bears are great, so is pizza and beer. But the kind that's loaded with unnatural preservatives, dyes, HFCS are not. Just a heads up, it's technically semantics, but I've noticed this a lot in threads that you post in, (I'm not trying to say that the OP is using it one way or another) but I thought I'd finally give you a heads up. I eat "clean" and when i say that I mean that I eat organic produce, grass fed beef, free range chicken and eggs etc. I also drink beer, eat chocolate, pizza, pasta, even :gasp: candy from time to time
But it's still "clean" food.
Have a good Friday and an ever better weekend!0 -
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OP didn’t give a time frame for the 15 lbs. If he does it slow he can do it without getting fat.I feel like you're trying to argue semantics just for the sake of arguing. You and I both know recomp is horribly slow and inefficient and bulking will come with fat gains outside of a few exceptions. It's not a good idea to perpetuate the thought that you can gain a great deal of muscle without gaining some fat. I'ts a reality- if you want to gain appreciable muscle- you're going to need to fuel and eat at a surplus- and that will come with fat gains.
Fair enough but I didn’t have enough info about his age to say it’s IMPOSSIBLE.
You're right- if he is a teen- he is going to have great gains with minimal fat. But the reality is muscle growth is hard and requires fat gain with few exceptions. But he's not. so stop picking.
I don’t believe in clean or dirty foods either. I share the same definition as you on what a clean bulk is. YOU said a clean bulk was a waste of time. This I don’t agree on. I do it every year.
as far as the clean thing- first of all I don't believe in clean/dirty food. Therefor I do not ascribe those adjectives to bulking or cutting... and traditionally
Clean bulk =/= eating chicken and broccoli none stop and "clean".
it means this:
Clean bulk = min/moderate surplus trying to maximize muscle with minimal muscle gains.
dirty bulk = huge surplus- little to no regard to fat gains. Most people rarely go this route.
We already established part of a clean bulk is going over your macros. You’re contradicting yourself.
Specifically why do I think its' a waste? because calories are king- get your macros close and just fill out your day to hit calories. Perfect macros mean absolutely diddley if you don't go over maintenance.
I don’t care what one eats for food but the macros and calories matter. There’s a big difference from going 500 over maintainance than 2000 over maintainance. I don’t have attitude I just don’t agree with what you’re saying and know tons of people who successfully clean bulk.gummy bears- pb and j- milk- pizza- sushi with oodles of rice- ice cream- bagels- cheese- what ever it takes to round out your day and not leave you feeling like you can't eat for the next three weeks.
Calorie dense- low volume foods are great for bulking.
I'm not wrong- could I have been more clear? sure- but I'm not wrong. You're arguing just to argue- it's the end of the week on a Friday- no need for attitude. Want to round out my day without an internet fight- just a waste of time and doesn't help anyone- just want to get my lifts on and do some running and throw back some beersies.0 -
Okay- I see the disconnect.
I was reading OP's post as clean- meaning- that whole"pure unprocessed" only chicken veggies- no "processed" high calorie dense types food.
So that was what I was specifically referring to.
YES to your post... that- clean in the traditional sense of small- moderate calorie bulk is good.
I apologize for the misread between the OP's post- and your post. I was still thinking he was talking "clean" as in the new fad clean.
no- I'm all about moderate suplus bulks. I'm a chick- if I tried dirty bulking I'd be a whale in 2 months flat LMAO.0 -
Jorocka, you know a lot of people who use the word "clean" along with the words "food" or "diet" or even "Bulk" aren't talking about calories. They're talking about quality of the food. Gummie bears are great, so is pizza and beer. But the kind that's loaded with unnatural preservatives, dyes, HFCS are not. Just a heads up, it's technically semantics, but I've noticed this a lot in threads that you post in, (I'm not trying to say that the OP is using it one way or another) but I thought I'd finally give you a heads up. I eat "clean" and when i say that I mean that I eat organic produce, grass fed beef, free range chicken and eggs etc. I also drink beer, eat chocolate, pizza, pasta, even :gasp: candy from time to time But it's still "clean" food.
Have a good Friday and an ever better weekend!
the kind loaded with preservatives and dyes are fine. I eat them all the time. It's not dirty. It's fine.
There are two types of clean- and we often get people in here saying they want to clean bulk on nothing but veggies and chicken breasts and it's not practical.
Clean in bulking is different than clean as in processed.
The original post sculli was saying he didn't agree on- I actually agree with him- yes- a traditional small calorie clean bulk is valid and fine.0 -
No the "kind" loaded with dyes and preservatives are not "fine". Seriously go look it up. Eat it all you want, but don't pretend it's healthy.
Nevermind, I'm starting to see that your the type of person who thinks that as long as your not fat your heathy. Cancer sucks, but don't take my word for it, you'll find out I for yourself sooner or later0 -
Ahhhh friends?Okay- I see the disconnect.
I was reading OP's post as clean- meaning- that whole"pure unprocessed" only chicken veggies- no "processed" high calorie dense types food.
So that was what I was specifically referring to.
YES to your post... that- clean in the traditional sense of small- moderate calorie bulk is good.
I apologize for the misread between the OP's post- and your post. I was still thinking he was talking "clean" as in the new fad clean.
no- I'm all about moderate suplus bulks. I'm a chick- if I tried dirty bulking I'd be a whale in 2 months flat LMAO.0 -
No.0
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Ahhhh friends?Okay- I see the disconnect.
I was reading OP's post as clean- meaning- that whole"pure unprocessed" only chicken veggies- no "processed" high calorie dense types food.
So that was what I was specifically referring to.
YES to your post... that- clean in the traditional sense of small- moderate calorie bulk is good.
I apologize for the misread between the OP's post- and your post. I was still thinking he was talking "clean" as in the new fad clean.
no- I'm all about moderate suplus bulks. I'm a chick- if I tried dirty bulking I'd be a whale in 2 months flat LMAO.
:drinker:0 -
No the "kind" loaded with dyes and preservatives are not "fine". Seriously go look it up. Eat it all you want, but don't pretend it's healthy.
Nevermind, I'm starting to see that your the type of person who thinks that as long as your not fat your heathy. Cancer sucks, but don't take my word for it, you'll find out I for yourself sooner or later
I actually don't pretend anything is healthy- it's all just food. Food is fuel.
I don't go out of my way to suck highly processed stuff down- but I don't avoid it like I'm scared of it.
ah- you're one of those enjoy your cancer people- good to know!!!0 -
Nevermind, I'm starting to see that your the type of person who thinks that as long as your not fat your heathy. Cancer sucks, but don't take my word for it, you'll find out I for yourself sooner or later
Dude, wtf is wrong with you?
Did I just see you wish cancer upon someone?
Christ, she's talking about clean and dirty in terms of calorie surplus. It's a common way to describe bulks. Get a f&£ing clue.0 -
No the "kind" loaded with dyes and preservatives are not "fine". Seriously go look it up. Eat it all you want, but don't pretend it's healthy.
Nevermind, I'm starting to see that your the type of person who thinks that as long as your not fat your heathy. Cancer sucks, but don't take my word for it, you'll find out I for yourself sooner or later
I've no advice to add for the OP, it's all been covered. Good sound advice from Jo and others, as always.
Just came on to add, Chris-Pierce: Disgusting response to a respected MFP member. Not sure about others, but I found that offensive and foolish (at best).0 -
meh- it's okay. I have thick skin... unless the cancer eats it from the inside out you know
we can leave it at foolish- I've made my fair share of blunders- so I'm okay. let's just have some beer and oreo.s
wait. no.
it's coffee and oreos. (yes- I may have had that for breakfast!!!)
pizza and beer 0 -
=D
Pizza and diet coke for me - not enough cutting cals left for beer
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I'm not an expert in bulking, but another site you might find useful is http://scoobysworkshop.com/bulking-up-and-gaining-muscle/.0
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lol MOAR RUNNING!!=D
Pizza and diet coke for me - not enough cutting cals left for beer
(bah- no way!!!)0 -
No the "kind" loaded with dyes and preservatives are not "fine". Seriously go look it up. Eat it all you want, but don't pretend it's healthy.
Nevermind, I'm starting to see that your the type of person who thinks that as long as your not fat your heathy. Cancer sucks, but don't take my word for it, you'll find out I for yourself sooner or later
Which particular dye or preservative do you believe is cancerous?0 -
Why are you running if you are bulking?
I'm running just to maintain cardio fitness so I can keep up with my kids.
my cardiovascular fitness improved from doing heavy squats and no other cardio at all.
the squats must be with a heavy enough weight that it leaves you as out of breath as HIIT type sprinting would... it taxes the cardiovascular system in the same way (i.e. building up a huge oxygen debt, then the cardiovascular system works overtime to get oxygen to the muscles to get rid of all the lactic acid after you stop exercising)
if you're bulking, this is what you want to be doing. If you're a beginner, you'll be doing heavy squats 3x a week (full body workout 3x a week is optimal for beginners) - if you're a more advanced lifter and so are not squatting so often (or doing any other heavy lift that has the same effect on the cardiovascular system), then maybe HIIT workouts for the cardio fitness are necessary a couple of times a week max.0 -
I eat "clean" and when i say that I mean that I eat organic produce, grass fed beef, free range chicken and eggs etc. I also drink beer, eat chocolate, pizza, pasta, even :gasp: candy from time to time But it's still "clean" food.
Definition of Clean Eating #40800 -
Don't run if you're bulking! If you do make it one or two days a week. If you're trying to get cardio in, do squats and crunches at a quick speed and it'll have the same effect.0
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It's perfectly possible to bulk and play a sport or engage in an activity that requires cv/endurance.
You have to scale up your calories accordingly and make sure that the non-lifting activity doesn't eat into your recovery too much, but it can be done.
Is the optimal way to bulk? Probably not. Can it be done? Yes
You'll hear a lot of lifters say things like "I don't do cardio", but then, when pressed, admit they play some basketball on a tuesday with their buddies or they like to have a game of 5-a-side or touch football. Or they like to surf. Or they really like to get out into the hills hiking at a weekend. Or their thursday night Krav Maga class is kick-*kitten*. But they don't consider any of that "cardio"...
It's all labels. Get on a well structured program that has progression, volume and recovery built in. Structure your non-lifting activities so they don't compete/conflict with the lifting. Then factor all your activity and eat more than you burn. Simple. Didn't gain enough? Eat more. Gained too much? Eat less.0 -
No the "kind" loaded with dyes and preservatives are not "fine". Seriously go look it up. Eat it all you want, but don't pretend it's healthy.
Nevermind, I'm starting to see that your the type of person who thinks that as long as your not fat your heathy. Cancer sucks, but don't take my word for it, you'll find out I for yourself sooner or later
I actually don't pretend anything is healthy- it's all just food. Food is fuel.
I don't go out of my way to suck highly processed stuff down- but I don't avoid it like I'm scared of it.
ah- you're one of those enjoy your cancer people- good to know!!!
You are a silly girl JOrocka. Too bad we can't be friends.
I do like your fan club though, they're hilarious.0 -
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Thought you recognized me? I'm not sure what you're implying. I'm new to mfp, just a few months now.0
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Why are you running if you are bulking?
I'm running just to maintain cardio fitness so I can keep up with my kids.
my cardiovascular fitness improved from doing heavy squats and no other cardio at all.
the squats must be with a heavy enough weight that it leaves you as out of breath as HIIT type sprinting would... it taxes the cardiovascular system in the same way (i.e. building up a huge oxygen debt, then the cardiovascular system works overtime to get oxygen to the muscles to get rid of all the lactic acid after you stop exercising)
if you're bulking, this is what you want to be doing. If you're a beginner, you'll be doing heavy squats 3x a week (full body workout 3x a week is optimal for beginners) - if you're a more advanced lifter and so are not squatting so often (or doing any other heavy lift that has the same effect on the cardiovascular system), then maybe HIIT workouts for the cardio fitness are necessary a couple of times a week max.
I am squatting 3x a week MWF with up to 1.5x my bodyweight and adding 5 lbs each week. Lately, I've been doing light squats on Thursday included in a complex if I don't run. I like the Bear or Cosgrove's Evil 8. Tuesday has been my track workout of 6-8x400m.0 -
Lifting for strength is priority over running for me now.
If you are lifting for strength, check out Strong Lifts 5x5
http://stronglifts.com/5x5/0 -
How do you know OP can't add 15 lbs of muscle? Do you know his / her age, background or anything about them? Why do you think clean bulking is a waste of time? I disagree with that totally except for brand new beginner lifters who are very skinny. I would only recommend a 'dirty' bulk for teens or very skinny newbs.well. number one thing.
get it out of your head you're going to add 15 pounds of muscle and no fat. It's just not going to happen.
secondly
running and trying to bulk is hard. You're mostly just adding extra food to your diet when it can be difficult to get it all in just from lifting.
three- clean bulking is practically a waste of time.
four- what's your maintenance level for calories?
typically for men you're looking at a 4-500 calorie surplus on top of maintenance calories.
If you do TDEE_ you not eat back.
If you do MFP way- then you eat back- if you are losing- only eat bcak 50-75% of your workout calories- if you are bulking- eat back all of them... if not more.
remember as you gain- the surplus must also go up... I jumped from 2500- to 3000 over siz months and honestly should have been eating closer to 3500 if not more.
I feel like you're trying to argue semantics just for the sake of arguing. You and I both know recomp is horribly slow and inefficient and bulking will come with fat gains outside of a few exceptions. It's not a good idea to perpetuate the thought that you can gain a great deal of muscle without gaining some fat. I'ts a reality- if you want to gain appreciable muscle- you're going to need to fuel and eat at a surplus- and that will come with fat gains.
You're right- if he is a teen- he is going to have great gains with minimal fat. But the reality is muscle growth is hard and requires fat gain with few exceptions. But he's not. so stop picking.
as far as the clean thing- first of all I don't believe in clean/dirty food. Therefor I do not ascribe those adjectives to bulking or cutting... and traditionally
Clean bulk =/= eating chicken and broccoli none stop and "clean".
it means this:
Clean bulk = min/moderate surplus trying to maximize muscle with minimal muscle gains.
dirty bulk = huge surplus- little to no regard to fat gains. Most people rarely go this route.
Specifically why do I think its' a waste? because calories are king- get your macros close and just fill out your day to hit calories. Perfect macros mean absolutely diddley if you don't go over maintenance.
gummy bears- pb and j- milk- pizza- sushi with oodles of rice- ice cream- bagels- cheese- what ever it takes to round out your day and not leave you feeling like you can't eat for the next three weeks.
Calorie dense- low volume foods are great for bulking.
I'm not wrong- could I have been more clear? sure- but I'm not wrong. You're arguing just to argue- it's the end of the week on a Friday- no need for attitude. Want to round out my day without an internet fight- just a waste of time and doesn't help anyone- just want to get my lifts on and do some running and throw back some beersies.
Sorry I caused the confusion/arguement. I made up my screen name because I want to bulk while trying to clean up my diet a bit. There's no way I will eat totally "clean" because I love pizza, beer, ice cream, etc. just as much as the next person. My goal is to eat about 3500 calories a day while eating more protein and less carbs than I have been.0 -
Lifting for strength is priority over running for me now.
If you are lifting for strength, check out Strong Lifts 5x5
http://stronglifts.com/5x5/
I did StrongLifts 5x5 for over 6 months when I started lifting. Then I tried 5/3/1 for a few months and a 12 week free personalized plan from a trainer. Now I'm following the Texas Method.0 -
I haven't run the TM, but it requires a fair bit of recovery, doesn't it? The only way you'll know is to run it and see.
Make sure you eat enough, sleep enough, get enough water, eliminate other stressors from your life and place your non-lifting activities strategically in your schedule so they don't compete with a) your life and b) your lifting.
Gotta look at the whole puzzle - not a single piece.
Good luck!0
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