Cyclist v Motorist
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It seems to me that, since over 90% of all accidents and traffic fatalities are caused by automobile drivers, it is CARS that shouldn't be on the road.
Interesting point.
Here are the statistics for the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/244137/ras50001.xls0 -
Motorists, cyclists, and all people in general just need to stop being self-important *kitten*. The end.0
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As a cyclist myself, I don't think bikes should be on the road, they rarely obey the rules of the road. They use crosswalks when the light is red and don't even stop for stop signs most of the time. They break all these rules and then complain when a car cuts them off because they are "vehicles". If you can't drive the speed limit or there is no dedicated bike lane, they shouldn't be on the road.
It seems to me that, since over 90% of all accidents and traffic fatalities are caused by automobile drivers, it is CARS that shouldn't be on the road.
True but I'm willing to bet most of the accidents and traffic fatalities involving bikes are caused by pretentious cyclist thinking they own the road...0 -
Today I saw a cyclist tear down a hill and attempt to take a corner at full speed while towing a child trailer.
I feel sorry for the kid for having such a *kitten* for a parent, after the poor little sod did a barrel roll on the tarmac, which took the bike over too.0 -
Honestly, I think this thread has pretty much motivated me to start recording my rides so when I do one day get run over by some careless oaf I can either sue their pants off or at least have plenty of evidence for their vehicular manslaughter case.0
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As a cyclist myself, I don't think bikes should be on the road, they rarely obey the rules of the road. They use crosswalks when the light is red and don't even stop for stop signs most of the time. They break all these rules and then complain when a car cuts them off because they are "vehicles". If you can't drive the speed limit or there is no dedicated bike lane, they shouldn't be on the road.
It seems to me that, since over 90% of all accidents and traffic fatalities are caused by automobile drivers, it is CARS that shouldn't be on the road.
I would really like to see the US shift gears into more bike lanes and more public transportation. I loved living in cities where I didn't have to drive, and would happily commute the 12 miles each way everyday via bike if I didn't think I'd get killed. Given the incredibly high fatality rate, let alone the comments in this thread, I think it's more than clear that there are too many aggressive and/or lousy drivers out there.
For me its got nothing to do with aggeession or abilty! Its about cyclists riding on already dangerous roads when there are places designed for them to ride. Its also horrible to see 30 or of them on that same road riding 3 abreast. If you get put in the ditch so be it.... I'm not going head on with another car because cyclist want to ride on a road that barely holds two cars!!0 -
As a cyclist myself, I don't think bikes should be on the road, they rarely obey the rules of the road. They use crosswalks when the light is red and don't even stop for stop signs most of the time. They break all these rules and then complain when a car cuts them off because they are "vehicles". If you can't drive the speed limit or there is no dedicated bike lane, they shouldn't be on the road.
It seems to me that, since over 90% of all accidents and traffic fatalities are caused by automobile drivers, it is CARS that shouldn't be on the road.
I would really like to see the US shift gears into more bike lanes and more public transportation. I loved living in cities where I didn't have to drive, and would happily commute the 12 miles each way everyday via bike if I didn't think I'd get killed. Given the incredibly high fatality rate, let alone the comments in this thread, I think it's more than clear that there are too many aggressive and/or lousy drivers out there.
For me its got nothing to do with aggeession or abilty! Its about cyclists riding on already dangerous roads when there are places designed for them to ride. Its also horrible to see 30 or of them on that same road riding 3 abreast. If you get put in the ditch so be it.... I'm not going head on with another car because cyclist want to ride on a road that barely holds two cars!!
Why do you think the car has the right of way over a cyclist? ... never mind 30 of them riding 3 abreast.0 -
As a cyclist myself, I don't think bikes should be on the road, they rarely obey the rules of the road. They use crosswalks when the light is red and don't even stop for stop signs most of the time. They break all these rules and then complain when a car cuts them off because they are "vehicles". If you can't drive the speed limit or there is no dedicated bike lane, they shouldn't be on the road.
It seems to me that, since over 90% of all accidents and traffic fatalities are caused by automobile drivers, it is CARS that shouldn't be on the road.
True but I'm willing to bet most of the accidents and traffic fatalities involving bikes are caused by pretentious cyclist thinking they own the road...
Based upon what though? Actual data or beliefs which may not be based in fact at all?
I guess it is frustrating for cyclists (most of whom probably spend just as much time being motorists or pedestrians) to be tarnished in this way. It seems no different than when I was heavily involved in weight lifting in my 20s and that was deemed to be a pursuit only for shallow, testosterone fuelled meatheads despite me being an introvert or when I was growing up as an Asian lad in London that my preferred career choice was obviously corner shop owner...0 -
There are some bitter folks in this thread. LOL. Sad really.0
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I never see any solution to this argument. Yes, legally you have to treat a bicycle the same as a car. But if a car jumps up onto the sidewalk scattering pedestrians it makes the nightly news. Bikes do it on a regular basis. They're different beasts, treating them the same is nice in theory, terrible in practice.
Here's how you make a cyclist understand. Imagine if pedestrians were given rights to lanes same as cyclists were. You're riding your bike, there's someone in front of you walking. You're not allowed within 40 feet of them, you can only pass if there are no vehicles coming in the other lanes, etc. etc. How would you feel?
Well I spend most of my time not as a driver or cyclist, but as a pedestrian. And I can tell you there's no one ruder or less considerate than someone on a bike. Cars stay on roads, pedestrians stay on sidewalks, everyone has to pay attention to crosswalks and signals. Except the majority of people I see on bikes. They ignore traffic laws and cause many incidents and near incidents. And then complain in loud voices when they lose the fight of car vs. bicycle.
So I don't see any solution to this problem. Mostly what I see are a lot of rude people on bikes complaining about their rights being violated while ignoring everyone elses.
It's actually Illegal for bikes to ride on the sidewalk here (motorcycles,scooters and cars also) exception is smaller children. I give cyclists riding on the sidewalk **** regularly (and I cycle frequently - never on a sidewalk, I'll get off and walk it if need be)
That being said in cities there needs to be a much more concerted effort to improve bike lane systems, i hate riding along in a bike land and just having it end and become parking for instance. I don't care if all roads have them but FFS I should be able to get across the core of the city and to a destination without insane difficulty. I pay property taxes (a lot of them for a teeny tiny lot with less services that the people paying less taxes in the suburbs) I also pay road taxes through my car.0 -
There are some bitter folks in this thread. LOL. Sad really.
I know right?
When gas hits $10 a gallon eventually I bet a lot more folks are going to "see the wisdom" of sharing the road.0 -
My $.02:
As a motorcyclist (biker), I understand I have to follow the same laws as a car or truck. I do NOT weave, lane split, travel on shoulders, etc... I respect cyclists and understand they have a right to be on the road and be treated safely while doing so as they are considered equal to a motorized vehicle under the law (most laws in USA I guess).
What I have a problem with cyclists are the jerks. The ones who ride through red lights, cross intersections diagonally, or go impossibly slow on roads with 45+MPH limits. All at the same time riding in such a manner that's makes it really hard to safely pass them.
Like what jorocka said, the bad apples make the rest of them (who are probably law abiding and safe/respectful riders) look bad. Just like us law abiding bikers. Ultimately segovm hit the nail on the head. The USA infrastructure was not built for cyclists, sadly. Most people don't use sidewalks in the USA. It would make sense to allow cyclists use them but I understand why state and local governments don't, they are concerned about pedestrians' safety.
Personally I think cycling in the street around cars, trucks, and semi's flying by is crazy. It's bad enough on a motorcycle.0 -
Is that the Mcdonald's bike? Cos I'm loving it0 -
Went out for a ride today and had a car cut across the front of me. I made a gesture and he stopped, I jumped of my bike and we had a little exchange of words. My point is why do some car drivers believe that bikes should not be on the road or should be that close to the side that they ride in the drainage channel? I drive a Renault Grand Espace, a big 7 seater and make sure I am well out of the way of any cyclist I need to over take. So what if I have to wait 10, 20, 30 seconds, it's no big deal.
Please can I ask any non cyclist reading to please give us cyclist room on the roads, we have a much right to use the road as you do. :happy:
I agree you do have your rights to the road but I think you all need to choose your roads much more wisely. Around where I live we have almost no shoulder and very deep drainage ditches. It leaves no room for anyone to get around a cyclist. On the other side of this coin there are plenty of roads with "BIKE LANES" that should be utilized. There are also many paved trails that are ment for cyclists to ride safely. Why should motorist feel like we have to give you space on dangerous roads when there are plenty of places designated for you to ride. To be quite honest Im not going to risk my safety so you can ride in already dangerous spots. Sorry if you don't want to hear that but that is how I feel. When I ride my bike I put it on my rack and drive to a safe place to ride. I think the rest of the cyclists can do the same.
Mate I see only one thing wrong with what you say. What about those of us whose nearest cycle path is 20+ miles away? I live in a little country town in the Cotswolds. Miles form a cycle trail or cycle path, do you suggest I give up something I enjoy doing to keep fit or do I waste money on fuel taking my bike to a cycle trail/path?0 -
I've been cycling off and on for 40 years, and the arguments haven't changed in all that time. There is no question that there are thoughtless drivers, thoughtless cyclists, and thoughtless pedestrians. The only universal solution is the Golden Rule and, well, we're still working on that as a species.
There is one qualitative difference, however, between the motorist and cyclists side of the story. While motorists commit millions of thoughtless acts (I'm talking in general, not just towards cyclists), cause hundreds of thousands of accidents and kill tens of thousands of people each year, no one would ever suggest that they "don't belong on the roads". Yet, every selfish or irresponsible act is used by many drivers as "evidence" that cyclists should be excluded.
I don't believe in comparative justification-i.e. it's ok for me to be a jerk because other people are jerks. Cyclists have a legal right to the road and that also comes with responsibilities. Too often, cyclists feel justified in acting like jerks (esp in mass rides) because of the constant abuse and threats they receive from motorists. I understand the impulse, but it still doesn't make it right. In my experience, too many cyclists don't understand the principles of safe bicycle riding on the roads, nor do they fully understand traffic laws and how they apply to them. However, the same is true for many/most drivers, so, again, the faults of cyclists don't justify assault or taking them off the road, any more than the tens of infractions and poor driving habits I see every day on the way to work justify excluding all cars (except for maybe SUVs, but that's another topic ;-) And some doofus weaving in and out of traffic listening to a iPod is no different from someone weaving all over the highway texting on a phone. The problem is with the behavior, not the mode of transportation.
If you are that impatient of a driver that a delay of a couple of seconds or minutes while working around a cyclist bothers you that much, then you need psychological help, not more laws to exclude cyclists.
Just like not everyone in a car is the same type of driver, not everyone on a bike is the same type of cyclist. A guy who is out training on some back roads is a lot different than some kamikaze bike messenger in the middle of the Chicago Loop.
My general rule of thumb in mixed settings, is that the person at the lower risk should defer whenever possible to the person at higher risk. Someone in a car has immense power compared to a cyclist and should act accordingly. These fantasies that people express about "running them off the road" are just another example of the peculiar pathology that overtakes some individuals once they get behind a wheel. On mixed-use recreational paths, cyclists have an obligation to defer to pedestrians, kids, dogs, etc. Yes, I know pedestrians can be selfish and irresponsible as well, but they are going 2-3 mph--the person on wheels going 10-20 mph has an obligation to work around them. Don't like it? Go out at 6 am when no one else is there. Don't go to a lakefront path at noon on a sunny Sunday afternoon and get pissed because you can't do your triathlon training.
A little common sense and a lot of tolerance go a long way--I know that's idealistic to say, but it's still the only real solution.0 -
Actual data or beliefs which may not be based in fact at all?
Plenty of data is kept in the US on an annual basis regarding bicyclist and pedestrian deaths, injuries, etc... .
Here's a link to the 2012 data: http://www.pedbikeinfo.org/data/factsheet_crash.cfm
"In 2012, 4,743 pedestrians and 726 bicyclists were killed in crashes with motor vehicles (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Traffic Safety Facts)."
About 79,000 injuries to pedestrians, and 49,000 to cyclists in addition to the deaths.
Maybe it's the pesky pedestrians that shouldn't be on the roads. ;-)
Not to worry, I'm only joking. There are more pedestrians than there are cyclists out at any given time, so that certainly accounts for the higher numbers....0 -
It's not irony either.
Just stop.
Aww diddums...
lmao you can tell your a brit lol0 -
Is that the Mcdonald's bike? Cos I'm loving it
Of course it's not practical.
However, here is a great design and safety device that students came up with for a Biomimicry Student Design Challenge. Mouse inspired whiskers can instantly give a bike more space in the lane to help cars avoid them. It's a really cool design (check out the pictures and read about the design), lightweight, and has promise...
http://www.fastcoexist.com/3031576/these-mouse-inspired-whiskers-give-cyclists-a-temporary-bike-lane
MouseWhiskers 0 -
I even have to deal with a lot of bike races here too and I hate them. Even though they affect the local communities we are never told when they are going on. How hard is it to post to the community Facebook pages or post something at the Post Office a week before the event happens. I would change my schedule to avoid driving when a race is happening because I am so afraid that I could hit someone on a bike.
To be fair thats not the fault of the cyclist taking part in the race it's the fault of the organisers.
I completely agree with both points I've quoted here. It's off topic, but this reminded me of a bike race that went on in our small community a few weeks ago. My boys play baseball and they were having a fundraiser BBQ on the same day as the race (because the organizers of the race didn't alert the community at large). One of the cyclists was out of control angry because he paid $50+ for the race and wasn't given food from the baseball fundraiser free of charge. All of the boys were in their full on baseball uniforms, so there was zero doubt that their function had nothing to do with the race. Funny...but not.0 -
Not to keep hitting the nail on the head over and over but the truth is that the problem is not in the drivers or the riders but in the government's failure to adapt the infrastructure to safely support both.
^This^0
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