Two + Months in, not a pound gone

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  • pensierobello
    pensierobello Posts: 285 Member
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    OP at this point I am beginning to wonder why you won't open your diary? Multiple people have requested it in order to help you. I'm not trying to be accusatory but what is your reasoning for not wanting to?
    I'm aware that looks suspicous and I have been lurking around for a while so I expected that. The reason I haven't is because I have a fantastic nutritionist who I meet with every two weeks. We go over my diary every time.
    What does you going over your diary with your nutritionist have to do with opening it for us to see as well?

    If your nutritionist is so fantastic, you would have lost some weight by now. Open your diary and let the people see!
  • goddesskristie
    goddesskristie Posts: 11
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    I really second getting tested for insulin resistance. Re-check your thyroid levels. Also, kudos to you for sticking to it. I can't imagine being in your situation, it must be so frustrating. I'm really proud of you for sticking with it despite the lack of progress. Hang in there, ok?:)

    Thank you for the encouragement. I know everyone has their struggles, this is one of mine and I just want to figure it out!

    No hashi's no PCOS here. According to my Doc and an absolute barrage of tests (including a lipid profile, EKG, and Framingham score of 1 in addition to all the other tests I have mentioned), everything was either exceptional (lipid profile, framingham score) or well within normal ranges.

    Thanks again for all the responses. I am really impressed with the community here.

    Off to see my trainer!
  • bizgirl26
    bizgirl26 Posts: 1,808 Member
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    [/quote]

    If your nutritionist is so fantastic, you would have lost some weight by now. Open your diary and let the people see!
    [/quote]

    ^This^
  • paulawatkins1974
    paulawatkins1974 Posts: 720 Member
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    There are caveats to CICO which some people have a hard time acknowledging. Whether it's a difference in biochemistry that we don't fully understand or difficulty in calculating the CO part of the equation, I'm not sure. But the TYPE of calories will make a big difference for SOME people. For example, people with insulin resistance will lose more weight with the same amount of calories if less of their calories come from carbs because of the abnormal glucose metabolism issue with insulin resistance. They've done studies on this (for those that insist on seeing it, I'll look for it to be posted with an edit). So, for people with such issues, how they create the deficit makes a HUGE difference in their actual weight loss.

    First, are you weighing everything you eat with a food scale so you're sure of your actual intake? If you're not doing this, I highly recommend doing this first to get an accurate picture of the CI part of the equation. This is probably the most common error most people make -- grossly underestimating their calories eaten. And, as others have pointed out, measuring spoons/cups aren't as accurate as weight for solids. Please do this first.

    Second, if you're already weighing your food and confident in your intake, then you need to go to the doctor again and get things checked. I know you said you were fine, but I was told I was fine for over 10 years by 4 different doctors until I really researched issues myself, understood what tests needed to be done and what they meant. Then, bingo, I finally got the correct diagnosis and treatment --- and not only felt 1000x better, but also finally started losing weight like a "normal" person.

    From my journey, I'm familiar with thyroid issues and insulin resistance. Do you know if you've had the following tests done for them and what their numbers were:

    Thyroid -- Free T3, Free T4, TSH, both antibodies (TPO and Tg)
    Insulin resistance -- A1C

    Over 40% of US adults have insulin resistance in pre-diabetic or diabetic levels (2/3 of the pre-diabetic folks are undiagnosed) -- and that makes it very hard to lose weight and very easy to gain weight without the proper diet, and possibly medication. That's a LOT of people. 8% or so of the population have a thyroid disorder, 2/3 of which are undiagnosed.
    I'd be interested to see about the insulin resistance study. It seems that for me, My weighloss slows quite a bit when I am eating alot of junk food. Even if it fits my Calorie goal. I'm not sure if its water retention due to the sodium or I'm just tracking it totally wrong. I don't think my body works any different than anybody else: cals in<cals out. But something happens there for sure.
    ETA: I just have to assume it's improper logging because it's hard to properly log a burger from a mom and pop fast food joint.
  • dmenchac
    dmenchac Posts: 447 Member
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    OP at this point I am beginning to wonder why you won't open your diary? Multiple people have requested it in order to help you. I'm not trying to be accusatory but what is your reasoning for not wanting to?
    I'm aware that looks suspicous and I have been lurking around for a while so I expected that. The reason I haven't is because I have a fantastic nutritionist who I meet with every two weeks. We go over my diary every time.

    She must be incredible. I can't imagine having a nutritionalist that lets me double my caloric intake and NOT gain any weight!!!!!!

    But in all seriousness, we all know where the problem is; its your eating and its absurdly obvious.

    Open up the diary.
  • pinkshiningstar
    pinkshiningstar Posts: 140 Member
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    OP at this point I am beginning to wonder why you won't open your diary? Multiple people have requested it in order to help you. I'm not trying to be accusatory but what is your reasoning for not wanting to?
    I'm aware that looks suspicous and I have been lurking around for a while so I expected that. The reason I haven't is because I have a fantastic nutritionist who I meet with every two weeks. We go over my diary every time.
    What does you going over your diary with your nutritionist have to do with opening it for us to see as well?

    Perhaps she's embarrassed by the things she eats (she mentioned eating out). If that's the case, I don't think anyone is really here to judge. People want to help, and the very first step is peeking at your log. You may have a nutritionist, but here you have THOUSANDS of people who have been in your shoes. I'm sorry, but I'll pick the latter 99% of the time.

    We've all eaten things we likely shouldn't. Better believe I logged the bacon cheeseburger I had the other night along with TWO Mike's Hard Lemonades. I logged it, and I enjoyed it. No shame in that. I've moved on.

    I leave you with this: Good Luck. :smile:
  • kethry70
    kethry70 Posts: 404 Member
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    I don't want to be rude, but I have a lot of friends, women, in your exact situation who have Hashi's or PCOS.
    It is not as simple as cals in, cals out for them.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the incidence of PCOS and Hashimoto's does not support the number of people on MFP who claim to have these disorders. Again, I could be wrong but it seems like every time I turn around someone else is posting about how they can't lose weight because they have PCOS. If a physician diagnoses it, fine, but if not... it's just an excuse.

    You are wrong. A tremendous number of people have PCOS- it is actually the single most common cause of female IF. It just used to be horribly misunderstood and under diagnosed because so few doctors even knew about it. Most women with PCOS have in fact had a battery of tests (IR, testosterone levels, thyroid etc) and many of us have had ultrasounds to confirm the typical string of pearls cysts on our ovaries. And I've never met a single soul who claimed to have PCOS without a doctor's confirmation
  • history_grrrl
    history_grrrl Posts: 212 Member
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    I do not eat back any calories. She gives me a total caloric intake to eat every day and that's what I eat regardless of what I burn.

    Isn't this an obvious impediment to losing weight, based on MFP's model?
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
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    Perhaps she's embarrassed by the things she eats (she mentioned eating out). If that's the case, I don't think anyone is really here to judge. People want to help, and the very first step is peeking at your log. You may have a nutritionist, but here you have THOUSANDS of people who have been in your shoes. I'm sorry, but I'll pick the latter 99% of the time.

    We've all eaten things we likely shouldn't. Better believe I logged the bacon cheeseburger I had the other night along with TWO Mike's Hard Lemonades. I logged it, and I enjoyed it. No shame in that. I've moved on.

    I leave you with this: Good Luck. :smile:
    There aren't any foods you should't eat. If you track it and it falls within your goals it's fine to eat. Really the only time a food should be completely avoided is if you don't enjoy eating it or you have an intolerance/allergy to it. Other then that eat what you like. If you are constantly going over your goals however, then that is an issue.
  • kethry70
    kethry70 Posts: 404 Member
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    I do not eat back any calories. She gives me a total caloric intake to eat every day and that's what I eat regardless of what I burn.

    Isn't this an obvious impediment to losing weight, based on MFP's model?

    No. Lots of people set their cal goals from their TDEE and then just log exercise as 1 calorie
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
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    I do not eat back any calories. She gives me a total caloric intake to eat every day and that's what I eat regardless of what I burn.

    Isn't this an obvious impediment to losing weight, based on MFP's model?
    No it's not. People who don't track exercise calories simply base intake on their TDEE which accounts for your exercise. Plenty of us do it that way. I lost all my weight never calculating or eating back exercise calories.
  • loriemn
    loriemn Posts: 292 Member
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    "My nutritionist has me eating 50% carbs 30% fat and 20% protein. If I don't watch it closely it ends up at 40-45-15. " this seems really off to me,,does it to anyone else? 50% carbs is a ton of carbs! and where are they coming from? veggies, brown rice or white bread and pasta? I know its about calories in and out but this seems way off to me,,I do probably 60% protien,20% fat and 20% carbs,,this is where I feel my best.And not to be rude,but as some have asked,how does one get to be 186Lbs overweight if only eating 1300 cal a day as you stated? I think you need to revamp everything and start over from scratch,try a new approach because this one isnt working.
  • LoneWolf_70
    LoneWolf_70 Posts: 1,151 Member
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    its obv shes either embarrased by her diary or doesnt actually log. So, im moving on.
  • tryett
    tryett Posts: 530 Member
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    I lost weight on both pregnancies while consuming much higher calories then I normally do. My Dr said it was the only time my metabolism functioned properly. I had gestational diabeties and am PCOS (it isn't as rare as one might think). I was on a low carb (diabetic diet) and this time do not max the carbs the nutritionist set for me. If it was 50 percent like yours I wouldn't lose weight either. Your protein is kindof low also.
  • aledba
    aledba Posts: 564 Member
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    .
  • kethry70
    kethry70 Posts: 404 Member
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    its obv shes either embarrased by her diary or doesnt actually log. So, im moving on.

    Me, too. (except I couldn't keep myself from one last ditch effort)

    OP- noone defies the rules of physics. Even people with metabolic disorders (like me) can lose weight if we figure out our personal Calories in calories out. You said you have a medically tested BMR. Given how overweight you are starting, I would start there. Set ,your calorie goal to your BMR, WEIGH and log everything, and give it a few weeks. And I know we are used to assuming experts are actually experts but they are all human. So, if you do that religiously and still see no progress in 4 weeks, I would recommend going for second and third opinions on all your tests and looking for a new nutritionist
  • roverlass64
    roverlass64 Posts: 2
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    My husband and I have been struggling with weight for some time now. When I first started on fitness pal, the thing that got me was all the little things you don't think about. Like the taste test of the food you are preparing, or the half teaspoon of honey that goes in your teas, the amount of dressing that goes in a salad, ketchup and mustard and such. What do you do for a living? Some jobs counter efforts to keep track of our food! Are you a stay at home mom, that tests all the food for her toddler? Somewhere there is more going in that is being used up. I figured I was running on about 2500 calories when I started. The first time I honestly recorded everything I was shocked to see over 3400 calories in my count! My downfall are coffee flavors and salad dressings, because I don't like the flavor of artificial sweeteners, I won't have "skinny" coffees or fat free/sugar free dressings, but I found that a little goes a long way! Chin up, you will figure it out and succeed in the end!
  • lindsey1979
    lindsey1979 Posts: 2,395 Member
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    There are caveats to CICO which some people have a hard time acknowledging. Whether it's a difference in biochemistry that we don't fully understand or difficulty in calculating the CO part of the equation, I'm not sure. But the TYPE of calories will make a big difference for SOME people. For example, people with insulin resistance will lose more weight with the same amount of calories if less of their calories come from carbs because of the abnormal glucose metabolism issue with insulin resistance. They've done studies on this (for those that insist on seeing it, I'll look for it to be posted with an edit). So, for people with such issues, how they create the deficit makes a HUGE difference in their actual weight loss.

    First, are you weighing everything you eat with a food scale so you're sure of your actual intake? If you're not doing this, I highly recommend doing this first to get an accurate picture of the CI part of the equation. This is probably the most common error most people make -- grossly underestimating their calories eaten. And, as others have pointed out, measuring spoons/cups aren't as accurate as weight for solids. Please do this first.

    Second, if you're already weighing your food and confident in your intake, then you need to go to the doctor again and get things checked. I know you said you were fine, but I was told I was fine for over 10 years by 4 different doctors until I really researched issues myself, understood what tests needed to be done and what they meant. Then, bingo, I finally got the correct diagnosis and treatment --- and not only felt 1000x better, but also finally started losing weight like a "normal" person.

    From my journey, I'm familiar with thyroid issues and insulin resistance. Do you know if you've had the following tests done for them and what their numbers were:

    Thyroid -- Free T3, Free T4, TSH, both antibodies (TPO and Tg)
    Insulin resistance -- A1C

    Over 40% of US adults have insulin resistance in pre-diabetic or diabetic levels (2/3 of the pre-diabetic folks are undiagnosed) -- and that makes it very hard to lose weight and very easy to gain weight without the proper diet, and possibly medication. That's a LOT of people. 8% or so of the population have a thyroid disorder, 2/3 of which are undiagnosed.

    I do use measuring cups for some things. I will be weighing more and eating out less to ensure more accurate calculations in the future ( thanks for the tips!).

    I have had all of those tests done except A1c. They did a fasting glucose and it was fine. All of those tests (plus cortisol, and some other hormones) all came back normal.

    I will talk to my nutritionist about insulin resistance and see what she thinks about changing my macros.
    Thank you for the response!

    Especially on the thyroid, I'd strongly recommend you look into what is "normal". There is a lot of differing opinions on it and adjustments in normal years. For example, previously you had to have a TSH over 5 to be considered hypo, now it's 3 and there is talk of lowering it into the 2s.

    If you don't have any hypothyroid symptoms, then it's probably not an issue. But if you do -- difficulty losing weight, fatigue, dry skin/hair, brittle nails, constipation, intolerance to or feeling cold often (especially in the hands and feet), etc. -- then I'd really look into that further. Some people can be "within range" and still have horrible symptoms -- especially those with Hashi's as its an autoimmune disorder whose severity changes. For me personally, I don't get the symptom alleviation until I'm in the top 1/3 of the normal range for free T4 and free T3. If I'm low or even low-normal, I still have a lot of the symptoms.

    I don't mean to harp on this, but it's just what I learned from my path. I'd seen 2 GPs and 2 endos previously and 3 of them ONLY tested TSH and 1 did TSH plus free T3 and free T4. None of them had ever done any antibody tests -- which is how Hashi's is diagnosed most frequently (and Hashi's is the MOST common thyroid disorder). Because of you have the antibodies, it's virtually impossible to know how many of them are binding up the Free T3 and Free T4 -- could be 10% or could be 80%. People with Hashi's (unless it's very advanced and most of your natural thyroid function is impaired) can have normal TSH, high TSH, or low TSH -- so it's not a very useful test for early stage Hashi's, even though you still have tons of the hypo symptoms.

    That's just why I ask about all of those tests in particular. It wasn't until I finally sought out an out-of-network specialist and paid out of pocket for the extra tests that I finally got the proper diagnosis. And it infuriated me that I first suspected and sought out medical help more than 10 years prior -- and NONE of them did even the basic antibody tests. I've found that a lot of doctors, even endos (unless they specialize in thyroid or metabolism issues), really don't know much of anything beyond the TSH test.
  • WalkingAlong
    WalkingAlong Posts: 4,926 Member
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    BodyMedia products aren't always accurate. It's basically a Fitbit that pretends to extract intelligent info from your arm skin. But if you had an RMR test and it matched, maybe yours is. Or maybe both are inaccurate.

    I don't blame the OP for not opening her diary. In my opinion, she'll get 2-3 wise remarks and 2-3 dozen others telling her it's her sodium or water intake or frozen dinners or meal timing or macros.

    The two other things that stick in my craw are (1) the nutritionist seems under-informed (as usual) and (2) 1300 calories being what you eat when you eat when unrestricted sounds like measurement error, because that is not much for someone of size.

    But maybe you really do just have a huge range of adaptive thermogenesis and can maintain on 1300 or 2300. But your BMF should at least notice a big change in NEAT between the two levels. Did your BodyMedia calorie burn levels shoot up when you doubled your intake?
  • lindsey1979
    lindsey1979 Posts: 2,395 Member
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    For those interested in the study I mentioned, here it is: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2005.79/full

    The gist is that two sets of women were given two different isocaloric diets (calculated 400 daily deficit) -- they both had the same amount of protein (20%) but one had 60% carbs and 20% fat (the low fat diet) and one had 40% carbs and 40% fat (the high fat diet). Half of the women were insulin sensitive and half were insulin resistant.

    For the insulin sensitive women, those on the low fat (LF) diet lost nearly twice as much weight as their high fat (HF) counterparts -- 13.5% of their initial body weight versus 6.8%. For the insulin resistant women, it was nearly the exact opposite. Those on the HF diet lost 13.4% and those on the LF lost 8.5%. The differences in losses could not be accounted for in differences in resting metabolic rate, activity level, or intake.

    That to me shows very clearly that it's not just about sheer caloric amount. That how one creates their caloric deficit can produce vastly different results based on their own circumstances.

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