You already have all the weight you need to squat

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  • darrensurrey
    darrensurrey Posts: 3,942 Member
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    I'm a big fan of bodyweight exercises. Currently, I'm working on holding a front lever for more than a second and holding a human flag for more than a second. Also training one hand chin ups and planches.

    I do end up resorting to weights for leg work, though. Pistol squats are undoubtedly impressive but they're a lot more about balance and flexibility rather than strength. (Obviously, you need to balance to some extent in back squats compared to, say, leg presses.)

    Shrimp squats are easier from a balance viewpoint - or just do pistols holding a door frame to remove the balance/flexibility element. Then it becomes a lot easier.

    As a "workout", it's fine but it depends on your goals. If your goals are improved balance, flexibility and burning fat then why not. If it's about strength, then being able to do loads of pistols won't really improve your 1RM back squat much (I say much because it may make your ankles more flexible for ATG squatting). I'll check my strongman competitor contact to see if he bothers with pistol squats if you want. ;)
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    Once you get to the stage where you can crank out 5+ pistols, no problemo, then your only option is to add some weight (in which case your bodyweight isn't all you need) or do something like the jumping pistol squat. Which is admittedly more challenging, but is really becoming a plyometric exercise: more for developing power on a certain pre-existing strength base. Which is great, but not going to get you significantly stronger beyond a certain point.

    Having seen the likes of Steve Cotter pistol for reps with heavy double kb's, there's a progression you can push beyond what most people will ever be capable of. But it'll never reach the level of strength you can achieve with a loaded barbell - that's just a fact.
  • rybo
    rybo Posts: 5,424 Member
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    While I have lifted both ways in the past, I'm pretty much just a BW guy now. For the average person with no aspirations of being a power lifter, body weight progressions taught correctly is really all one would ever need. Some people enjoy tossing around iron & there's nothing wrong with that. But the excuse of not being able to get big & strong because you can't get to a gym is invalid.
  • SuperSexyDork
    SuperSexyDork Posts: 1,669 Member
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    Once you get to the stage where you can crank out 5+ pistols, no problemo, then your only option is to add some weight (in which case your bodyweight isn't all you need) or do something like the jumping pistol squat. Which is admittedly more challenging, but is really becoming a plyometric exercise: more for developing power on a certain pre-existing strength base. Which is great, but not going to get you significantly stronger beyond a certain point.

    Having seen the likes of Steve Cotter pistol for reps with heavy double kb's, there's a progression you can push beyond what most people will ever be capable of. But it'll never reach the level of strength you can achieve with a loaded barbell - that's just a fact.

    This hit the nail on the head for me.

    Also, I lift competitively. So, no, body weight will never be enough for me.
  • George_Baileys_Ghost
    George_Baileys_Ghost Posts: 1,524 Member
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    Bodyweight exercises are great, but it's important to remember that you still need to figure out a way to progress an exercise to continue building strength.

    For example, squats. You can start off with wall squats, progress to bodyweight and then start progressing to variations that make it harder/improve your strength. Like skater squats, bodyweight bulgarian squats, pistol squats, etc.

    Or push ups - going from halfs to full push ups and then doing variations like wide push ups, close/diamond push ups, one-arms, spider crawls, supermans, divebombers, etc.

    ^This

    Variation and progression is key, but yeah, you can absolutely get a massive workout and make solid progress with body weight work. I love lifting, but I went through the first level of YAYOG and it was awesome.
  • yogicarl
    yogicarl Posts: 1,260 Member
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    Once you get to the stage where you can crank out 5+ pistols, no problemo, then your only option is to add some weight (in which case your bodyweight isn't all you need) or do something like the jumping pistol squat. Which is admittedly more challenging, but is really becoming a plyometric exercise: more for developing power on a certain pre-existing strength base. Which is great, but not going to get you significantly stronger beyond a certain point.

    Having seen the likes of Steve Cotter pistol for reps with heavy double kb's, there's a progression you can push beyond what most people will ever be capable of. But it'll never reach the level of strength you can achieve with a loaded barbell - that's just a fact.

    This hit the nail on the head for me.

    Also, I lift competitively. So, no, body weight will never be enough for me.

    I think for the vast majority of folks in daily life, 3 sets of 5+ pistols each side is more than enough leg strength for any individual in any situation.

    Of course, if you want to specialise in lifting weights and/or lifting competitively then you will of course need to lift.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    Once you get to the stage where you can crank out 5+ pistols, no problemo, then your only option is to add some weight (in which case your bodyweight isn't all you need) or do something like the jumping pistol squat. Which is admittedly more challenging, but is really becoming a plyometric exercise: more for developing power on a certain pre-existing strength base. Which is great, but not going to get you significantly stronger beyond a certain point.

    Having seen the likes of Steve Cotter pistol for reps with heavy double kb's, there's a progression you can push beyond what most people will ever be capable of. But it'll never reach the level of strength you can achieve with a loaded barbell - that's just a fact.

    me thinks this is correct.

    It's might convient to do BB squats- the weight is easy to adjust and add.

    The thing is though if you're goal is to workout- and have a better life- bodyweight progression squats are almost better- because they force balance- AND strength.

    If you're only goal is to get damn strong just for the sake of getting damn strong- then the barbell is the way to go.

    I love body weight progressions- but it's not suitable for my goals right now- so I don't do them- but they are wonderful and a fantastic option for a lot of people.
  • Galatea_Stone
    Galatea_Stone Posts: 2,037 Member
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    OP, this is great to post.

    Bodyweight exercises can be easier or they can be more difficult than lifting. I'm willing to throw myself on the sword for the purposes of this discussion. I go to the gym, and I lift heavy. I can squat deep with a respectable amount of weight on my shoulders (my body weight) and can do 100 non-weighted squats without much effort, but pistol squats are a *****, and some days I can't even do one. I'm working on it, though. Also, I feel it after I do push-ups, but I don't get DOMS much after bench press or rows or tricep work. I've been trying, but I still can't do a respectable pull-up even though my overhead press and lat pulldowns are progressing.

    They're different, and people really should consider doing bodyweight work along with any weights program.
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,268 Member
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    bodyweight exercises are great...as long as you progress in them.

    There are a lot of people who 1) don't want to lift weights 2) can't afford to 3) can't due to injury etc 4) other things

    and doing resistence training and or bodyweight is the way to go and you do get a good workout.

    I've been heavy squatting for 10months...not sure I could do a pistol squat...will have to try it.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    I love body weight progressions- but it's not suitable for my goals right now- so I don't do them- but they are wonderful and a fantastic option for a lot of people.

    Also, this^

    There are some bodyweight progressions that most people who consider themselves strong under a barbell just can't do. Because they rely on strength to bw ratio.

    Some upper body bodyweight moves are unbelievable (and you have to be unbelievably strong in relation to your bw to do them). But loaded leg strength work (and I include kb, db, sandbag, barbell in this) is hard to beat.
  • MadDogManor
    MadDogManor Posts: 1,452 Member
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    Thanks for the info, OP. I'm working night shift now, and I'm doing things like lunges and leg raises at 4 am to help keep me awake! Maybe I can incorporate some of these exercises to have a more productive 3rd shift workout
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    I hate all this fake body weight vs. weight lifting mock debate.

    All squats are body weight squats. Some of them include additional tools, such as kettleballs or barbells. I'd argue that a lot of people would be best served by learning perfect form before they start adding load, but there is no reason to not to use heavy weights when you are ready. There are also a number of ways to increase the load by using progressive body weight exercises. What you choose to do depends on your goals. There is no "right" and "wrong" here.

    And all the people I know who are serious about lifting do not dismiss body weight exercises and variations.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    bodyweight exercises are great...as long as you progress in them.

    There are a lot of people who 1) don't want to lift weights 2) can't afford to 3) can't due to injury etc 4) other things

    and doing resistence training and or bodyweight is the way to go and you do get a good workout.

    I've been heavy squatting for 10months...not sure I could do a pistol squat...will have to try it.

    The Convict Conditioning program has an awesome progression for this. I've just stopped falling on my *kitten* with one leg slightly raised.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    Once you get to the stage where you can crank out 5+ pistols, no problemo, then your only option is to add some weight (in which case your bodyweight isn't all you need) or do something like the jumping pistol squat. Which is admittedly more challenging, but is really becoming a plyometric exercise: more for developing power on a certain pre-existing strength base. Which is great, but not going to get you significantly stronger beyond a certain point.

    Having seen the likes of Steve Cotter pistol for reps with heavy double kb's, there's a progression you can push beyond what most people will ever be capable of. But it'll never reach the level of strength you can achieve with a loaded barbell - that's just a fact.

    I :heart: jimmmer.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    BTW - there are a couple of forums for bodyweight exercises. This is the one that seems to be most active, so I've been posting my progress there regularly:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/166-bodyweight-training
  • busywaterbending
    busywaterbending Posts: 844 Member
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    I am all for body weight exercises! I truly believe that if you can't do a body weight squat, one legged squat, pistol squat, etc. then you are not ready for weight.

    full range of motion is where it's at! and pullups, pushaways, dips, handstands, love!!! Without full range of motion leg work women will develop thighs instead of glutes. I personally hate it when your *kitten* is smaller than your thighs.

    my typical leg workout is 100 reps of 7 variations of different squats/lunges before I even hit the leg press machine or grab a barbell. Guessing it's a woman thing. And yes, I can pistol. Must be the kung fu training I had. And add those jumps ladies! Best way to gain a shelf!
  • JTick
    JTick Posts: 2,131 Member
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    I agree that a lot can be achieved by bodyweight alone, although I do think eventually you'll exhaust the ways to contort your body to raise the difficulty. I guess at that point, it would be a matter of deciding to maintain fitness or start looking at weights.

    For me, I lack the flexibility to achieve some of the bodyweight exercises, particularly squats. I can't do a pistol squat. The strength is there, the flexibility is not. So I'll squat 200 pounds in a normal stance instead. :wink:
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
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    The majority of my strength training is bodyweight, based off of the Start Bodyweight basic routine. I like it because I can do it anywhere with very little equipment. Plus I just like its simplicity. Pistol squats, full pull ups, and handstand pushups are a long way off for me so I'm not really concerned with running out of progressions at this point.
  • yogicarl
    yogicarl Posts: 1,260 Member
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    I'm personally confident I will never exhaust ways to contort my body to raise the difficulty. Also being able to handle my own bodyweight while balancing on one foot is more in line with the yoga style I am strength training for.

    More upper leg girth - even muscle mass - would not help me to progress in my main activity; it would actually hold me back even if my legs were significantly stronger by doing squats.

    Its a case of training with specific goals in mind and picking the right tool for the job.

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