Hunting vs. Endangered Hunting

You assume I wear leather and fur.. And I dont.

I also assume you wear makeup, which you do.
Do you have any kind of pest control in your dwelling?
Do you work with only non-carnivorious exotic animals?

You assume I wear leather and fur.. And I dont.

I also assume you wear makeup, which you do.
Do you have any kind of pest control in your dwelling?
Do you work with only non-carnivorious exotic animals?

I do wear makeup and I only purchase from brands who do not have animal products in their products nor do they do animal testing. I live in an apartment, so I cannot control what they decide to do for pest control. I've seen zero pests here but my grandmother experienced a mouse infestation and instead of using traps and poisons, we used peppermint oil. Problem solved. I haven't specified which animals I'd like to work with yet as well.. I don't know. I wouldn't be opposed to working with carnivores because that is natural to them. They need to hunt and eat meat to survive. Humans don't.

You assume I wear leather and fur.. And I dont.

I also assume you wear makeup, which you do.
Do you have any kind of pest control in your dwelling?
Do you work with only non-carnivorious exotic animals?

I do wear makeup and I only purchase from brands who do not have animal products in their products nor do they do animal testing. I live in an apartment, so I cannot control what they decide to do for pest control. I've seen zero pests here but my grandmother experienced a mouse infestation and instead of using traps and poisons, we used peppermint oil. Problem solved. I haven't specified which animals I'd like to work with yet as well.. I don't know. I wouldn't be opposed to working with carnivores because that is natural to them. They need to hunt and eat meat to survive. Humans don't.

So, if you work with lions, you would have no problem feeding them meat that was donated by some hunter?
I think it is pretty easy to stand on a soap box and look down on those who do things differently then you do.
I personally think anyone who would intentionally contribute to the confinment of exotic animals should be required to live with the animals for a solid year, in the enclosure.
Anyone who would intentionally work with exotic animals are contributing to the horrible practice of removing the freedom from these wonderful beasts.

Your point? If you live in an area where you can only subsist on the food you grow and the animals you hunt I'm not going to judge you. What's the other option? Starvation? No. The point being that a majority of us on this forum do NOT live in an area like that. It is entirely possible to have a diet that does not consist of meat, dairy or eggs. The problem is people get it in their mind that they cannot live without those things and it's simply not true. You know who can really not live without milk? A calf. You're a grown man... You'll be fine, lol.

The Most Dangerous Game, now that's some exotic hunting

You assume I wear leather and fur.. And I dont.

Nocturnelle1990: You seem to have a strong opinion about being vegan.

Good for you being a vegan...I couldn't do it. Maybe if I was starving I could, but certainly not by choice. But it is your choice and your right to do so.

One of my recreational activities is managing my 120 acre farm. The farm has 25 acres dedicated to native prairie plants. As a matter of fact, we recently burned the field (you have to burn it every year or two or the invasive weeds take over) and the coneflowers are just spectacular right now. Prairie plants do not provide much food for deer, turkey, rabbits, etc, but they provide outstanding cover. Around this field I have alfalfa, clover, and will have soybeans, turnips, and a number of other food plots. The chanterelle mushrooms just sprouted last weekend. They are better than morel mushrooms! I work closely with the conservation department and several other state agencies to help me manage the farm, timber, and the wildlife better. I do all of this to manage the wildlife for hunting deer, turkey, squirrel, dove, ducks, and geese with my two sons, some family members, and friends. I also have 4 lakes on this property that I fish.

My question for you is ... Does this make me a vile person too?

Also, the girl who said she would eat bacon even if the pig "asked" her not to... You are an absolutely vile human.

No, she is not a vile person. She is actually a very nice, smart, funny and educated young lady. And just FYI, on a good day, if you lick her, she actually TASTES like bacon....♥

Hi, I adore you<3

Also, the girl who said she would eat bacon even if the pig "asked" her not to... You are an absolutely vile human.

So how much time do you spend in the field actively researching on conservation and ecological sustainability? Or educating the public about responsible animal and environmental management?

Quite a bit since I have a degree in animal science and working my way to veterinary school so I can work with exotic animals making sure they are getting the best treatment and enrichment possible.

Specifically what kind of exotics are you looking to work with?

Also I never said I was going to work in a zoo??? I don't know where you're getting your assumptions from but you're incorrect. There are other ways to work with these creatures that does NOT involve them being exploited.

So.. exotics in the wild?
exotic carnivores in the wild?
and you have a "no kill" policy?
Well... good luck with that.

I have hunted my whole life. I have raise my children as hunters. I work in the hunting industry...and my profile pic was not changed for this thread just to be clear.

I hunt for trophies! Everything I kill is considered a trophy to me. Hunting is not an easy sport that is why its a trophy...not because it hangs on the wall. I eat what I kill. I provide for others with what I kill. I hunt for conservation and provide food. I do not judge this girl for her choice of hunting. People who hunt in Africa in most cases cannot take the meat but have to surrender it to provide food for villages in the area. As for me personally...I try not to hunt anything that can hunt me back...its safer that way.

any kind of hunting is pretty pathetic and disgusting

my dad is a hunter so I grew up with it and have been around it my entire life

zero respect for it

So bears and mountain lions and wolves are disgusting? We're predators too, we're just the most highly intelligent and have developed technological tools for hunting, since we don't have claws and can't run as fast as alot of our prey. Why do you think we developed canine teeth hmm? Hunting isn't disgusting or cruel, it just IS (as in it's a fact of life, get used to it).

These exact reasons are why humans are not carnivores or omnivores. We do not have claws. Our canines are pathetic and in fact, all herbivores have them as well. We cannot run at great speeds like predators can. Our jaws do not open wide like a predator when we eat, nor do we tend to bite and swallow like them. We mash and grind out teeth like herbivores. We also have to cook and season our meat. When was the last time you saw a lion roast a gazelle over an open flame with some lawrys season salt? Also, when we eat meat it is acidic - our body needs to balance this out and it does so by leaching calcium phosphate from our bones. The only reason humans ever ate meat was because during drought or in times where we could not find fruit or vegetables we turned to scavenging. There is literally no reason to consume meat, dairy or eggs anymore other then our own selfish reasoning. I'm sorry but a life should not have to die just for my taste buds.

Wolves, lions, cats, birds of prey all hunt out of survival. We do not need to do so anymore, regardless of what our ancestors did.. It does not apply to us anymore.

sorry but you are wrong about many of the above points.

1. humans are omnivores, so are all great apes in fact. Even gorillas (despite what vegan propaganda tells you).

2. humans lack many adaptations of herbivores, for example we only have one stomach and our gut is too short. Of all the great apes, the one that eats the highest percentage of plant food, the gorilla, has a much longer gut than us. Human teeth are not like herbivore teeth... human teeth are similar to the teeth of other primates, but with reduced canine teeth, and most primates are omnivores. In fact there's a rule of thumb in primates that the more animal protein eaten the larger the brain (relative to body size). that holds true throughout the human genus. Herbivorous primates have very small brains for body size.

3. the very first stone tools, used by australopithecines (bipedal apes with similar brain size to chimpanzees) were used butcher up animal carcasses, in particular to extract bone marrow and brains. They were not the first hominins to eat meat, just the first to use stone tools to extract brains and marrow. This extra source of energy gave them a significant evolutionary advantage, and they were the direct ancestors of humans - i.e. the availability of the high protein high fat brains and bone marrow gave them the energy to be able to sustain larger brains. And throughout human evolution, the evolution of brain size happened alongside the evolution of more and more sophisticated hunting weapons and larger and larger animals being hunted. more meat = bigger brains. bigger brains = better at catching animals = more meat

4. chimpanzees and bonobos, our closest extant relatives in the animal kingdom, co-operatively hunt small mammals, including monkeys. It's therefore highly likely that the common ancestor of chimps bonobos and humans did as well, and that what we see in the fossil record in the immediate ancestors to humans, is an increase in meat eating, in particular the ability to extract the essential fatty acid rich parts of the animal, which then gave them the raw materials to grow bigger brains

5. the reduction of the canine teeth in hominins (which is evident in human ancestors dating back millions of years and precedes the increase in brain size and the australopithecines who first used stone tools already had tiny canines) is to do with a reduction in male to male aggression. In primates, the canine teeth are usually bigger in males and used to fight other males and even just for displaying to other males (these primate species will open their mouths wide to display canine teeth as an act of aggression) - it's not an adaptation for eating meat. The loss of it in hominins relates to a reduction in male to male aggression which relates to an increase in co-operation and food sharing, which are hallmarks of human societies. Bipedalism evolved at the same time, thought to be advantageous for carrying food back to base camp. Bipedalism and reduction in canine size pretty much co-evolved. And both had already evolved in Australopithecus before humans existed.

6. There is so much evidence for meat eating in the human fossil record. For example, every species of human has been found alongside animal bones that have stone tool cut marks on them, i.e. the animals were butchered with stone tools. Over time, the complexity of the stone tools, the complexity of the hunting weapons, the size of the animals and the size of the humans' brains increased, and they all increased together. It was a kind of positive feedback loop. More meat = bigger brains. Bigger brains = better at hunting. Better at hunting = more meat. Note: all human species were omnivorous, that means they ate vegetable foods as well.

7. Chimps and bonobos don't have claws or other specific adaptations for hunting meat - they have brains and can use tools (one subspecies of common chimp has been observed spearing bush babies on sticks and eating them - i.e. the use of a very basic hunting weapon).......... humans' adaptation for hunting is our brains and our hands and our ability to make stone tools.

8. the large temporalis muscle of apes acts as a contstraint on brain size, i.e. the brain size is limited because the skull is surrounded by this huge muscle - that's most evident in gorillas (who eat the most plant food) - this muscle is used to grind up vegetation. Some australopithecine species had this, e.g. australopithecus boisei (who is not an ancestor of humans) - some australopithecines took the evolutionary route of eating a lot of plant food, like gorillas, and they evolved bigger and bigger jaws and teeth, and bigger temporalis muscles - just like gorillas. Note: they were not herbivores, they ate insects too, just like gorillas. The ancestors of humans showed a big reduction in the size of the temporalis muscle, which meant brain size was no longer constrained, but it also weakened human jaws... these ancestors with small temporalis muscles could survive with smaller teeth and jaws because they ate meat, which is much softer than the kinds of plants eaten by gorillas and australopithecus boisei (molecular analysis shows what kinds of plants they ate).... again, without eating meat, these australopithecines would never have evolved bigger brains, and it's that evolutionary trajectory - bigger brains, smaller teeth, more meat eating, use of stone tools to extract the brains and bone marrow from carcases.... that set australopithecines on the route to evolving into humans. We're not just omnivores... we would never have evolved without consuming this additional animal fat and protein. As for australopithecus boisei with its huge teeth and jaws... it went extinct.

9: re cooked meat... lower palaeolithic humans ate raw meat. middle palaeolithic humans had controlled use of fire (that's one of the defining characteristics of the middle palaeolithic era) and they cooked food. modern humans can digest raw meat, cooking simply protects against pathogens and parasites. If you're certain about the food hygiene in the whole chain from farm to your plate, you can eat raw meat. It's not a good idea because it's very hard to be certain of the food hygiene of everyone who's handled the animal before you. But restaurants do serve up steak tartare and sushi... and lots of people eat rare beef steak (i.e. still raw in the middle) - some meats like pork and chicken can't be eaten raw but only because of the prevalence of certain pathogens and parasites in them that it's not worth the risk.

---

I have respect for people who are vegetarian or vegan for ethical reasons, but seriously you should stick to science and not believe the twisted vegan propaganda version of human evolution that would have you believe humans are supposed to be herbivores. They're not. Humans are omnivores. And you have to go way way back in primate evolution to find a herbivore ancestor... Humans are omnivores and humans evolved from omnivores. The whole "we don't have the adaptations that carnivores have" is nothing but a strawman argument... because carnivores are very different from omnivores, just like omnivores are very different from herbivores.... lots of herbivores have 4 stomachs, for example. Primates just have one.

any kind of hunting is pretty pathetic and disgusting

my dad is a hunter so I grew up with it and have been around it my entire life

zero respect for it

So bears and mountain lions and wolves are disgusting? We're predators too, we're just the most highly intelligent and have developed technological tools for hunting, since we don't have claws and can't run as fast as alot of our prey. Why do you think we developed canine teeth hmm? Hunting isn't disgusting or cruel, it just IS (as in it's a fact of life, get used to it).

These exact reasons are why humans are not carnivores or omnivores. We do not have claws. Our canines are pathetic and in fact, all herbivores have them as well. We cannot run at great speeds like predators can. Our jaws do not open wide like a predator when we eat, nor do we tend to bite and swallow like them. We mash and grind out teeth like herbivores. We also have to cook and season our meat. When was the last time you saw a lion roast a gazelle over an open flame with some lawrys season salt? Also, when we eat meat it is acidic - our body needs to balance this out and it does so by leaching calcium phosphate from our bones. The only reason humans ever ate meat was because during drought or in times where we could not find fruit or vegetables we turned to scavenging. There is literally no reason to consume meat, dairy or eggs anymore other then our own selfish reasoning. I'm sorry but a life should not have to die just for my taste buds.

Wolves, lions, cats, birds of prey all hunt out of survival. We do not need to do so anymore, regardless of what our ancestors did.. It does not apply to us anymore.

sorry but you are wrong about many of the above points.

1. humans are omnivores, so are all great apes in fact. Even gorillas (despite what vegan propaganda tells you).

2. humans lack many adaptations of herbivores, for example we only have one stomach and our gut is too short. Of all the great apes, the one that eats the highest percentage of plant food, the gorilla, has a much longer gut than us. Human teeth are not like herbivore teeth... human teeth are similar to the teeth of other primates, but with reduced canine teeth, and most primates are omnivores. In fact there's a rule of thumb in primates that the more animal protein eaten the larger the brain (relative to body size). that holds true throughout the human genus. Herbivorous primates have very small brains for body size.

3. the very first stone tools, used by australopithecines (bipedal apes with similar brain size to chimpanzees) were used butcher up animal carcasses, in particular to extract bone marrow and brains. They were not the first hominins to eat meat, just the first to use stone tools to extract brains and marrow. This extra source of energy gave them a significant evolutionary advantage, and they were the direct ancestors of humans - i.e. the availability of the high protein high fat brains and bone marrow gave them the energy to be able to sustain larger brains. And throughout human evolution, the evolution of brain size happened alongside the evolution of more and more sophisticated hunting weapons and larger and larger animals being hunted. more meat = bigger brains. bigger brains = better at catching animals

4. chimpanzees and bonobos, our closest extant relatives in the animal kingdom, co-operatively hunt small mammals, including monkeys. It's therefore highly likely that the common ancestor of chimps bonobos and humans did as well, and that what we see in the fossil record in the immediate ancestors to humans, is an increase in meat eating, in particular the ability to extract the essential fatty acid rich parts of the animal, which then gave them the raw materials to grow bigger brains

5. the reduction of the canine teeth in hominins (which is evident in human ancestors dating back millions of years and precedes the increase in brain size and the australopithecines who first used stone tools already had tiny canines) is to do with a reduction in male to male aggression. In primates, the canine teeth are usually bigger in males and used to fight other males and even just for displaying to other males (these primate species will open their mouths wide to display canine teeth as an act of aggression) - it's not an adaptation for eating meat. The loss of it in hominins relates to a reduction in male to male aggression which relates to an increase in co-operation and food sharing, which are hallmarks of human societies. Bipedalism evolved at the same time, thought to be advantageous for carrying food back to base camp. Bipedalism and reduction in canine size pretty much co-evolved. And both had already evolved in Australopithecus before humans existed.

6. There is so much evidence for meat eating in the human fossil record. For example, every species of human has been found alongside animal bones that have stone tool cut marks on them, i.e. the animals were butchered with stone tools. Over time, the complexity of the stone tools, the complexity of the hunting weapons, the size of the animals and the size of the humans' brains increased, and they all increased together. It was a kind of positive feedback loop. More meat = bigger brains. Bigger brains = better at hunting. Better at hunting = more meat. Note: all human species were omnivorous, that means they ate vegetable foods as well.

7. Chimps and bonobos don't have claws or other specific adaptations for hunting meat - they have brains and can use tools (one species of chimp has been observed spearing bush babies on sticks and eating them - i.e. the use of a very basic hunting weapon).......... humans' adaptation for hunting is our brains and our hands and our ability to make stone tools.

8. the large temporalis muscle of apes acts as a contstraint on brain size, i.e. the brain size is limited because the skull is surrounded by this huge muscle - that's most evident in gorillas (who eat the most plant food) - this muscle is used to grind up vegetation. Some australopithecine species had this, e.g. australopithecus boisei (who is not an ancestor of humans) - some australopithecines took the evolutionary route of eating a lot of plant food, like gorillas, and they evolved bigger and bigger jaws and teeth, and bigger temporalis muscles - just like gorillas. Note: they were not herbivores, they ate insects too, just like gorillas. The ancestors of humans showed a big reduction in the size of the temporalis muscle, which meant brain size was no longer constrained, but it also weakened human jaws... these ancestors with small temporalis muscles could survive with smaller teeth and jaws because they ate meat, which is much softer than the kinds of plants eaten by gorillas and australopithecus boisei (molecular analysis shows what kinds of plants they ate).... again, without eating meat, these australopithecines would never have evolved bigger brains, and it's that evolutionary trajectory - bigger brains, smaller teeth, more meat eating, use of stone tools to extract the brains and bone marrow from carcases.... that set australopithecines on the route to evolving into humans. We're not just omnivores... we would never have evolved without consuming this additional animal fat and protein. As for australopithecus boisei with its huge teeth and jaws... it went extinct.

9: re cooked meat... lower palaeolithic humans ate raw meat. middle palaeolithic humans had controlled use of fire (that's one of the defining characteristics of the middle palaeolithic era) and they cooked food. modern humans can digest raw meat, cooking simply protects against pathogens and parasites. If you're certain about the food hygiene in the whole chain from farm to your plate, you can eat raw meat. It's not a good idea because it's very hard to be certain of the food hygiene of everyone who's handled the animal before you. But restaurants do serve up steak tartare and sushi... and lots of people eat rare beef steak (i.e. still raw in the middle) - some meats like pork and chicken can't be eaten raw but only because of the prevalence of certain pathogens and parasites in them that it's not worth the risk.

---

I have respect for people who are vegetarian or vegan for ethical reasons, but seriously you should stick to science and not believe the twisted vegan propaganda version of human evolution that would have you believe humans are supposed to be herbivores. They're not. Humans are omnivores. And you have to go way way back in primate evolution to find a herbivore ancestor... Humans are omnivores and humans evolved from omnivores. The whole "we don't have the adaptations that carnivores have" is nothing but a strawman argument... because carnivores are very different from omnivores, just like omnivores are very different from herbivores.... lots of herbivores have 4 stomachs, for example. Primates just have one.

Yay! You're back! I don't *do* the human evolution stuff, but I love it when you do!

i really want a buffalo burger wrapped in Bacon. I hunt, and do it respectfully as well as fish. I love the environment but I wouldnt kill anything that is endangered.

If someone doesn't like it its ok thats their opinion io respect it as you should respect mine as we do in a civilized world.

Yes we have a bad deer population. due to lack of predators. like it or not we have to control them. i dont mind the state police shooting Bambi skull off as target practice that they do once a year to feed the homeless and prevent cars from hitting them

I also fish. Are there people against that? I am not asking to be a tird but curious. i release the fish though

I get the hunting thing...not for me, but if you want to hunt go for it. I don't, however, get hunting a White Rhino and suggesting that it somehow helps the very limited population of them left. Ask any African (my in-laws are from Kenya and I have been several times) what they think about "a great program and procedure that helps the White Rhino population through conservation" and I assure you it won't go over well. I don't understand hunting something for sport that is so rare.

I get the hunting thing...not for me, but if you want to hunt go for it. I don't, however, get hunting a White Rhino and suggesting that it somehow helps the very limited population of them left. Ask any African (my in-laws are from Kenya and I have been several times) what they think about "a great program and procedure that helps the White Rhino population through conservation" and I assure you it won't go over well. I don't understand hunting something for sport that is so rare.

I agree. Maybe if they could put value on them that doesn't require the animal to be dead than maybe there would be a population boom and the same goes for elephants.