Because Fat-Shaming is Sooo Cool
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If i'm going for one of the Seven Deadly ones, I'm in for sloth.Fat people are immoral.
Gluttony is a sin.
Fornication/Lust or go home.0 -
You know, for a site where "because science" get said often as a mantra, it's surprising how little people know about the scientific research surrounding obesity that isn't about losing weight but why people become overweight or obese in the first place.
There are genetic factors to it, just like being gay. The genetic contribution to your body weight is the same as that of your height, which is 70%.
Ever met the kid who complained about not being able to gain weight- the skinny awkward teenager who wanted to bulk up? Ever met the girl who no matter how hard she tried and how stringent her diet she couldn't lose weight?
Wanna know why? Because science.
Does an obesogenic environment contribute to obesity? Definitely yes. Do our dietary behaviors impact our weight? Obviously yes. But they aren't the sole reason for one's body weight.
And I won't even touch on the role that socio-economic status plays in obesity trends.
The idea that weight is all personal choice is garbage. I would like to see the scientific papers that prove that it is.
Of course there are genetic factors to gaining weight. Any animal species on the planet that didn't have this would have died out long ago. But that's where we diverge in our thinking. Our obesity is 100% a byproduct of our current society*. The human population has never had access to the quantity and quality of high calorie food options. For hundreds of thousands of years, it has been in our hard wiring to take advantage of food surpluses in preparation for times of shortage. The individuals that did so in the past were the ones that survived those times of famine (due to stored energy reserves) and the ones that didn't, died of starvation and didn't pass on their genetics. The main difference is that we don't experience shortages anymore (relatively speaking of course). We all have to work against that survival evolutionary trait. That said, I do not blame society for an individual's weight since we are also animals with the unusual ability to be self aware beyond instinct.
It is a personal choice. I chose to not pay attention to my eating and allow my natural drive to eat what's available to be in charge. Then I made the personal choice to pay attention and limit myself, thereby working against that natural drive and LOSING weight even when food is easily available. That was my personal choice.
*assuming populations in the world that have readily available/cheap food supplies
Yes, yes. We all know that. I think they teach it in high school bio. It's by no means a shocking idea that evolutionarily speaking we want to create energy stores.
But how does that translate into it being 100% a personal choice? Do you really believe our minds and our bodies are completely separate? That's incredibly foolish. And I'm speaking about DIFFERENT genetics. Yes, everyone's body wants to retain fat for survival, but different people have different genetic makeups that impact the ways in which energy is stored, our hunger hormones, and many other factors that contribute to our body weight.
Also, you don't really choose to have the time, money, and education to provide yourself a healthy diet, do you? Because I'm pretty sure that comes from being upper or middle class.0 -
...
- cake > pie
...
Ummmmm...
Whatever...more for me.
eta: kudos for saying the most controversial thing in this thread.
lol Well played.0 -
x2Fat acceptance is probably one of the most damaging things to health and fitness. It tells people that fat is normal and acceptable and not a very obvious sign that they need to change their habits. Fat isn't healthy, at all. It's a symptom of eating disorders, health problems, or other issues. This would be like "rash acceptance" or something. Fat is a sign of a problem. Do not embrace it and encourage it.0 -
Nobody should be "shamed" for being fat. But, I do agree with her. Being fat is unhealthy and unattractive. This coming from me... 100+ pounds overweight.0
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There are genetic factors to it, just like being gay. The genetic contribution to your body weight is the same as that of your height, which is 70%
Source for this please?
When I was really bored the other day, I calculated roughly how many hours exercise I had done over the last 5 years.... I don't remember how many it was but it was a lot, hundreds probably thousands of hours of intense exercise.
You want to tell me the reason I'm in shape and all the overweight people are overweight is mostly genetics?
I'm calling bs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1759548
I got this on the first page of a google search. I'd have to look through my notes and computer folders for more papers because the coursework I did on the physiology of obesity was a couple years ago in undergrad. But it's pretty well established within the scientific community. The 70'% number I got from my professor, who is well regarded within the field of physiological examination of obesity. The number stuck with me but I forget her sources. Probably in a powerpoint somewhere.
No. I'm not telling you that. I'm sure you've exercised a lot. Thanks for sharing? Good boy? I'm saying that our set weight that we are predisposed to being is mostly genetically determined. What we do with our bodies impacts that weight, but it is easier for some to do than others. If you read my post you would see that I specifically said that behavior impacted weight. I think that's pretty obvious.0 -
There are genetic factors to it, just like being gay. The genetic contribution to your body weight is the same as that of your height, which is 70%
Source for this please?
When I was really bored the other day, I calculated roughly how many hours exercise I had done over the last 5 years.... I don't remember how many it was but it was a lot, hundreds probably thousands of hours of intense exercise.
You want to tell me the reason I'm in shape and all the overweight people are overweight is mostly genetics?
I'm calling bs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1759548
I got this on the first page of a google search. I'd have to look through my notes and computer folders for more papers because the coursework I did on the physiology of obesity was a couple years ago in undergrad. But it's pretty well established within the scientific community. The 70'% number I got from my professor, who is well regarded within the field of physiological examination of obesity. The number stuck with me but I forget her sources. Probably in a powerpoint somewhere.
No. I'm not telling you that. I'm sure you've exercised a lot. Thanks for sharing? Good boy? I'm saying that our set weight that we are predisposed to being is mostly genetically determined. What we do with our bodies impacts that weight, but it is easier for some to do than others. If you read my post you would see that I specifically said that behavior impacted weight. I think that's pretty obvious.
Interesting abstract. Since I can't see the whole thing, do you know what were the genetic 'set points' of the twins listed? Also, do you have anything newer than 1991?0 -
I take it no one here is aware that "The Daily Mail" is affectionately nicknamed "The Daily Fail"?
^^^^ this!
Also OP... you complain about her shaming fatties then post a picture of her and basically make fun of her for how she looks.... isn't this a little hypocritical? Wouldn't it be better to just totally rise above shaming people over how they look? She's a pretty attractive person actually.... make fun of her opinions by all means, and the fact she's a Daily Fail journalist, but your point about not shaming fat people gets kind of lost when you turn right around and make unkind comments about her appearance.
Lol. I didn't make fun of her looks in any way. I include the picture that was in her article, I said she considers herself to be attractive but I didn't make any fun about her looks.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1759548
I got this on the first page of a google search. I'd have to look through my notes and computer folders for more papers because the coursework I did on the physiology of obesity was a couple years ago in undergrad. But it's pretty well established within the scientific community. The 70'% number I got from my professor, who is well regarded within the field of physiological examination of obesity. The number stuck with me but I forget her sources. Probably in a powerpoint somewhere.
No. I'm not telling you that. I'm sure you've exercised a lot. Thanks for sharing? Good boy? I'm saying that our set weight that we are predisposed to being is mostly genetically determined. What we do with our bodies impacts that weight, but it is easier for some to do than others. If you read my post you would see that I specifically said that behavior impacted weight. I think that's pretty obvious.
Interesting abstract. Since I can't see the whole thing, do you know what were the genetic 'set points' of the twins listed? Also, do you have anything newer than 1991?
I'm in grad school so I have access to a lot of the online libraries and journals that the papers are in, but most I would have to send to someone in PDF form. I don't have time to read through the article as I'm being bad as it is trying to multitask with this and finish something at work. But the fact that it was published in 1991 should tell you something. The scientific study of genetic components of weight has been going on since the 80's I believe, maybe earlier. It's well established that genetics do play a role. But with American individualism and "fatphobia" people love to blame individuals for their weight. Also, newer doesn't always mean better when it comes to sources.0 -
I struggle with this issue. I am 100% behind the truth that what a person looks like, be it their size, color, dress, whatever, should not determine their worth in society, and that just because you're overweight doesn't mean you suddenly have to start dressing in garbage bags and being ashamed of yourself.
But.
As someone who has been overweight, and who, through hard work, got myself out of that place, I'm troubled by what I see as a dangerous normalizing of being fat. It's hard to even articulate, because no, I don't think you're a bad person if you're overweight, and of course there are a host of reasons why people have weight issues and I get the mental side of it because like I said, I've been in that head space for a long time. But...sigh...I don't know, I just don't like the idea of obesity being seen as a normal thing that's okay. We don't celebrate anorexic people for loving themselves despite destroying their bodies with starvation. I think that the intent is good -- love yourself, no matter what -- but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't, in the same breath, be encouraging people to throw over bad habits, to treat these bodies that they love with enough respect to feed them well, move them often, and keep them healthy.
Does that make sense? I don't even usually talk about this because it's such a fine line. No, it's not cool to shame other people for the way they look, but, I'm sorry, it's not super cool to be fat, either. Not because of shallow reasons like looks -- because it's unhealthy, it's bad for you, it causes all kinds of health problems and early death, it's bad for your kids, and it's bad for skyrocketing health care costs. We should be telling people to love themselves enough to get healthy, not telling them it's okey-dokey that all they want to do is sit on the couch and eat junk food all day. That's not loving yourself, that's abusing your body.
YOU are not your HABITS. YOU are a wonderful, amazing human being with lots to offer the world, but your health habits are not okay and they need to change, for your own benefit, not mine, not the people on the street who think you should look a certain way -- for you. You are the one who is suffering or who will suffer the physical consequences of ignoring your own health.
I get very passionate about this because as a former fat-kid, I know how ****ty and hard it is to change a lifetime's worth of habits. I used to hate exercise. It's still not my favorite thing. Ice cream and candy are still my favorite foods. But I did the hard work to make the changes and if my lazy, hungry *kitten* can do it then I know it can be done, not by becoming a gym rat but by making small changes over time and making my health and well-being a priority.
I feel like the downside of the acceptance movement is making people feel like it's cool to not exercise -- not marathon running, but even going for a bike ride, doing anything, as if only crazy health nuts do that kind of stuff and screw them, I love myself so much that I'm going to let myself be comfortable here on the couch. Making people feel like it's cooler and more loving of yourself to just order that dessert, dangit, and ignore the fact that it's probably not the healthiest choice, because don't fat-shame yourself, eat whatever you want, right? No, dude, that's the opposite of loving yourself. That's lying to yourself about reality and choosing to stay unhealthy.
Again, I think the underlying message about self-love is absolutely spot on, but the trends that I see that message encouraging bother me.
All that said, this article was super offensive and over the line. She had some valid points hidden in there, but all the "fatty"-ing and the overall tone just made her sound like the skinny ***** in school that everyone hates, not coming from the "concerned" place she claimed to be.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1759548
I got this on the first page of a google search. I'd have to look through my notes and computer folders for more papers because the coursework I did on the physiology of obesity was a couple years ago in undergrad. But it's pretty well established within the scientific community. The 70'% number I got from my professor, who is well regarded within the field of physiological examination of obesity. The number stuck with me but I forget her sources. Probably in a powerpoint somewhere.
No. I'm not telling you that. I'm sure you've exercised a lot. Thanks for sharing? Good boy? I'm saying that our set weight that we are predisposed to being is mostly genetically determined. What we do with our bodies impacts that weight, but it is easier for some to do than others. If you read my post you would see that I specifically said that behavior impacted weight. I think that's pretty obvious.
Interesting abstract. Since I can't see the whole thing, do you know what were the genetic 'set points' of the twins listed? Also, do you have anything newer than 1991?
I'm in grad school so I have access to a lot of the online libraries and journals that the papers are in, but most I would have to send to someone in PDF form. I don't have time to read through the article as I'm being bad as it is trying to multitask with this and finish something at work. But the fact that it was published in 1991 should tell you something. The scientific study of genetic components of weight has been going on since the 80's I believe, maybe earlier. It's well established that genetics do play a role. But with American individualism and "fatphobia" people love to blame individuals for their weight. Also, newer doesn't always mean better when it comes to sources.
So your answer to both my questions is 'no'?0 -
You know, for a site where "because science" get said often as a mantra, it's surprising how little people know about the scientific research surrounding obesity that isn't about losing weight but why people become overweight or obese in the first place.
There are genetic factors to it, just like being gay. The genetic contribution to your body weight is the same as that of your height, which is 70%.
Ever met the kid who complained about not being able to gain weight- the skinny awkward teenager who wanted to bulk up? Ever met the girl who no matter how hard she tried and how stringent her diet she couldn't lose weight?
Wanna know why? Because science.
Does an obesogenic environment contribute to obesity? Definitely yes. Do our dietary behaviors impact our weight? Obviously yes. But they aren't the sole reason for one's body weight.
And I won't even touch on the role that socio-economic status plays in obesity trends.
The idea that weight is all personal choice is garbage. I would like to see the scientific papers that prove that it is.
What you put in your mouth is not a personal choice?
Yes, there are genetic factors. There are genetic factors for lots of things, some of them life threatening and no treatment is available. Obesity is very treatable by the person suffering from it. All they have to do is take responsibility for what they put in their mouths.
It's simple, not easy maybe, but very, very simple.
Would I ever shame an obese person? No. Nor would I shame someone for what their face looks like.0 -
I found that as soon as I started liking myself, and caring about myself I was finally able to start making positive changes. All the years I went through bullying throughout school for being fat, I hated myself, but I never changed. As soon as I started feeling like I was worth something, I started to take control of my weight. Fat shaming doesn't work. I'm so tired of all those people who think it's okay to hate fat people because "they can change". Unless you've been morbidly obese/obese and then became healthy you can't say it's an easy fix, because you haven't experienced it. I don't see anything wrong in teaching others a healthy way of living, but some people need help, and some people aren't ready to change yet. You can help people with their weight without being an *** about it.
+1
It is SO much about loving ourselves enough to be ready to change. Shaming yourself or others never works, it only makes the problem worse.0 -
It's not her fault. She's probably some menopausal sinewy old witch whose Husband left her for a larger woman. I feel sorry for women like her. She just needs a good ****ing and a hamburger and she'll be okay. Kale and ****ishness can only sustain hatred for so long.
You do know that you just put yourself on the exact same level as the author of that article, right?0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1759548
I got this on the first page of a google search. I'd have to look through my notes and computer folders for more papers because the coursework I did on the physiology of obesity was a couple years ago in undergrad. But it's pretty well established within the scientific community. The 70'% number I got from my professor, who is well regarded within the field of physiological examination of obesity. The number stuck with me but I forget her sources. Probably in a powerpoint somewhere.
No. I'm not telling you that. I'm sure you've exercised a lot. Thanks for sharing? Good boy? I'm saying that our set weight that we are predisposed to being is mostly genetically determined. What we do with our bodies impacts that weight, but it is easier for some to do than others. If you read my post you would see that I specifically said that behavior impacted weight. I think that's pretty obvious.
Interesting abstract. Since I can't see the whole thing, do you know what were the genetic 'set points' of the twins listed? Also, do you have anything newer than 1991?
I'm in grad school so I have access to a lot of the online libraries and journals that the papers are in, but most I would have to send to someone in PDF form. I don't have time to read through the article as I'm being bad as it is trying to multitask with this and finish something at work. But the fact that it was published in 1991 should tell you something. The scientific study of genetic components of weight has been going on since the 80's I believe, maybe earlier. It's well established that genetics do play a role. But with American individualism and "fatphobia" people love to blame individuals for their weight. Also, newer doesn't always mean better when it comes to sources.
So your answer to both my questions is 'no'?
No, my answer to your question is do your own ****ing google search. It's really not that difficult, sweetheart. I hear 4 year olds can do it now, what with kids and technology.
Maybe, if you're feeling sassy, try PubMed!
No need to get angry. A couple of no's would have been sufficient.0 -
Personally, I don't understand why people think that flinging around insults is a motivator. I mean, sure, some people can get angry and use that anger towards working out. But most people aren't motivated that way.
If a kid was struggling with reading, you wouldn't scream at him that he is a worthless, illiterate. You would take time to encourage him and help educate him.
This. Where I, personally, feel the problem comes in, and what I believe the author, in her own snarky awful way, was getting at, was that it's socially acceptable to point out that a child, for example, has a problem with reading and needs help. Yet to suggest that an overweight person has a problem and needs help is automatically shouted down as fat-shaming and not letting that person love themselves as they are. But I agree with you, it needs to come from love, from people who are close to you. Not from random strangers who are offended by someone's size. Get over yourself, random stranger.0 -
You know, for a site where "because science" get said often as a mantra, it's surprising how little people know about the scientific research surrounding obesity that isn't about losing weight but why people become overweight or obese in the first place.
There are genetic factors to it, just like being gay. The genetic contribution to your body weight is the same as that of your height, which is 70%.
Ever met the kid who complained about not being able to gain weight- the skinny awkward teenager who wanted to bulk up? Ever met the girl who no matter how hard she tried and how stringent her diet she couldn't lose weight?
Wanna know why? Because science.
Does an obesogenic environment contribute to obesity? Definitely yes. Do our dietary behaviors impact our weight? Obviously yes. But they aren't the sole reason for one's body weight.
And I won't even touch on the role that socio-economic status plays in obesity trends.
The idea that weight is all personal choice is garbage. I would like to see the scientific papers that prove that it is.
I've met a ton of fatties that blame their genes, society, fast food chains, busy lives etc, all while they chow down on a big mac.
Show me a person who eats healthy and exercises regularly but is fat because of their "genetics".0 -
These topics always give me a headache.
You shouldn't be a jerk to people based on their looks be it fat, thin, race or your perception of their attractiveness.
Name calling is bad.
Personally, I will not accept that my extra weight is or was okay (health wise). I did not and do not base my self worth on my weight but I definitely feel better now that I've lost and kept off 40 lbs. Maybe that makes me a bad person within the 'fat acceptance' community because if I feel better now about my current weight, that means I felt worse about myself when I was clinically obese. I understand the idea that you shouldn't hate yourself for being overweight or obese and that you should be able to be a happy person (I was happy despite my weight but not as happy as I am now) but it's the word 'acceptance' that always rubs me wrong.
In all the ways I've ever seen the word acceptance used (except for the title of this movement) it means you've accepted something about yourself (or anyone and anything) that you can't change.You have to accept unchangeable things because the ONLY other alternative is to be miserable. But you can change your weight and fitness level. Maybe if it used a different word, the concept of being able to be a happy person despite your weight might not cause such controversy. It casts an automatic idea to the public at large that those within the acceptance community then have to clarify (as has been done in every thread of this type that I've run across). TLDR: the movement shot itself in the foot with it's poorly chosen, inflammatory name
I heart this response.0 -
x2Fat acceptance is probably one of the most damaging things to health and fitness. It tells people that fat is normal and acceptable and not a very obvious sign that they need to change their habits. Fat isn't healthy, at all. It's a symptom of eating disorders, health problems, or other issues. This would be like "rash acceptance" or something. Fat is a sign of a problem. Do not embrace it and encourage it.
yeah because someone who feels 100% happy . confident and proud with/in their fat body is sooo wrong
we should make sure they know how wrong they are at every chance we get. make sure they know just how disgusting their bodies and happiness with their bodies is
lets pretend to be concerned about their health too just to you know look like healthy perfect condescending saints
lets just make sure all them fatties constantly know they need to change themselves to be okay
good idea so good so nice so cool0 -
We all want to be love and accepted for who we are; fat, thin, gay, straight, short, tall, etc. Shaming in any way is not OK. I strive for LOVE and acceptance, however....... I don't want to encourage "fat" For the main reason that it is not healthy. We live in the fattest nation in the world, and we are dying because we are FAT and that is not OK. I don't want to pass this issue down to my children. I know several people that have the "fat" gene, that have learned to out-smart it. I do believe genetics plays a role in our "predisposition" to be fat, but we CAN change that. I have seen it many times. How many people do we know that have had gastric surgery, lose weight and then gain in all back.. It is a heck of a risk to take, if you don't modify behaviors. This site if full of people with the "fat gene." How many times have we read profiles that start out saying, "I was fat my entire life" And by exercising and diet, they lost the weight. It can be done. We have to set boundaries and limits on our calories, and THE KINDS OF FOODS WE CHOOSE to fuel our bodies with. If others don't choose to do this, and are overweight, it is their issue, I won't be rude to them, I know the burden they are shouldering, but they also have to live with the consequences of their choices (just like the rest of us.) I do think we need to change, and it starts within ourselves.
My two cents.0
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