Body Pump vs Lifting. Help!

I'm not sure what this shows. It doesn't seem to mention BodyPump. Les Mills has a lot of different class types.

They're all basically similar...

OP said:

My question is, will Body Pump be enough to sustain/ tick box the 'strength training/conditioning' element?

which implies there is some interest in strength training.

I reviewed the abstract you wrote and here's my thoughts. It is definitely positive, but based on my training experience and education, those women were previously untrained. A 33% improvement in their Squat 1RM in just 12-weeks is not possible for somebody that is active is very unlikely at least for 90% of the population.

I didn't have the copyright symbol before, so I was able to find others...

PHYSIOLOGICAL AND NEUROMUSCULAR PROFILE DURING A BODYPUMP SESSION: ACUTE RESPONSES DURING A HIGH-RESISTANCE TRAINING SESSION.

The article presents the results of a study which investigated the effect of a high-repetition physical fitness training session with light weights. An overview of the type of workout being studied, which typically involves a class full of participants and a program of music, is presented. It was found that this type of exercise was able to improve strength in the legs of previously untrained women.

Physiological and neuromuscular profile during a bodypump session: acute responses during a high-resistance training session.

The main purposes of this study were 1) to describe and to compare blood lactate ([La]), heart rate (HR), and electromyographic (EMG) parameters during high-repetition training sessions (HRTSs), 2) to analyze the influence of physical fitness levels in these parameters, and, 3) to analyze the relationship between metabolic ([La]) and neuromuscular (EMG) responses during the HRTS. Fifteen healthy untrained women (21.7 +/- 2.1 years) performed an HRTS called Bodypump for 1 hour, which incorporated the use of variable free weights and high repetitions in a group setting. This session involved 10 music selections (M1-M10) containing resistive exercises for different muscle groups. After music selections 2 (M2), 4 (M4), 6 (M6), 7 (M7), and 9 (M9), [La], HR, and EMG (vastus medialis [VM], vastus lateralis [VL], iliocostalis lumborum [IC], and longissimus thoracis <) were determined. The [La] (M2, 4.00 +/- 1.45 mM; M7, 5.02 +/- 1.73 mM) and HR (M2, 153.64 +/- 18.89 bpm; M7, 16.14 +/- 20.14 bpm) obtained at M2 and M7 were similar but were significantly higher than the other moments of the session. However, EMG (root mean square [RMS]) at M2 (VL, VM, and LT) was lower than at M7. There was no significant correlation of strength and aerobic physical fitness with [La], RMS. In the same way, there was no significant correlation of [La] with RMS at M2 and M7. On the basis of our data, we can conclude that metabolic, cardiovascular, and EMG variables present different and independent behavior during an HRTS. Accordingly, for neuromuscular conditions during HRTS, it seems to be enough to induce improvement in the muscular strength of inferior limbs in untrained subjects.

It's just the point. Anything 'girlie' or not low rep/high weight is demonized here. BP is not cardio and it's a great option for someone with the OP's goals.

Low rep is terrific. It's a great choice. It's not the only thing with any value.

I'm not demonizing BP by any means, I just get tired of seeing false claims pushed around here. BP has some strength benefit but it's not strength training it is aerobic. True strength training is completely different. If the OP likes it, then she should do it, nothing wrong with that. But let's call it what it is...

Being well versed in instruction and FIRST HAND observation of how classes are run (vs a scholarly article that may have observed 1-2 classes) I think my opinion is quite accurate.

Agree, especially when the scholarly article is taken out of context or the test population is not fully understood.

you're reading to much emotion into it- when we are just pointing out what it ISN"T. and what it IS.

^

which in this case weren't even about strength?

Umm... this is what she wrote..

My question is, will Body Pump be enough to sustain/ tick box the strength training/conditioning' element?

Niner has 16 years of experience... his opinion is worth something.

I'm more focused on becoming leaner and more toned rather than anything else (ie getting stronger)

I was referring to that part.

I'm not discounting Niner's opinion. I agree with 99% of what he says. But it's an opinion, not the final word. :flowerforyou:

I'm more focused on becoming leaner and more toned rather than anything else (ie getting stronger)

I was referring to that part.

I'm not discounting Niner's opinion. I agree with 99% of what he says. But it's an opinion, not the final word. :flowerforyou:

Well then maybe she's not clear on her actual goals or has multiple. It might be opinion, but the opinion of somebody with an education and 16 years experience in training that also includes instructing the class in question should weigh heavier and be considered.

It has to be an Olympic bar to be strength training? Come on, you guys. You're playing with me now.

No, not at all. Barbell training is just one of the more effects tools in a good strength training plan.

All the ones I've been to, that's what we did for probably 75% of the class-- lift barbells. :huh:

those things that are 8 feet long and weigh 45 pounds?

really? you used those in body pump?

It has to be an Olympic bar to be strength training? Come on, you guys. You're playing with me now.

The shortest I recall is a 5 ft bar..even so..you were using those in body pump? :huh: Never heard of that before. Even if you were referring to the EZ Bar I'd still be questioning this.


ETA: Looked it up and there seems to be a barbell used in some sort of class but I really am wary about this. How are they loading it on their backs? Wouldn't it be unsafe to do this in a class environment in case someone has to bail out? (Even though it looked light, it'd still be a safety thing I'd worry about).

(From their site):

A TYPICAL CLASS

Improve your strength - but you are saying OP doesn't want that so this would still put Body Pump out

Perform 70-100 repetitions per body part totaling up to 800 repetitions in a single workout - Again, as others have said, definitely leans more to endurance training rather than strength training regardless of weight being included into the equation.

Improve your general fitness - well..that's true for a lot of exercises you could attempt

Shape and tone your muscles - errr...but it's more based on endurance, not hypertrophy. It probably is "true" in the sense of depending on noob gains and increasing the deficit for weight loss.

Protect your bones and joints from injury - I'd be iffy on that. I could see how any exercise would increase mobility and such, but trying to go so high in your reps as they want you while attempting to increase weight for strength training would actually be harmful to my thinking...which is why you'd either have to just lean more towards a strength routine or rely on this program for more cardio.

Get into shape fast - :huh:

Watching their "move" videos. I found their form questionable and there would easily come a point in where you wouldn't be able to safely make the load heavier.

http://w3.lesmills.com/westcoast/en/classes/bodypump/learn-the-moves/

All the ones I've been to, that's what we did for probably 75% of the class-- lift barbells. :huh:

those things that are 8 feet long and weigh 45 pounds?

really? you used those in body pump?

It has to be an Olympic bar to be strength training? Come on, you guys. You're playing with me now.

no- that wasn't my thought- I just was mostly thinking what bar were you using in body pump- the only ones I've seen are the one foam ones that come pre-weighted- like 2-5,7.5-10, 12, 15 and I think at most 25. I know technically a barbell can be as short as 4 feet- I have just never seen any classes utlize anythign that's ACTUALLY a barbell that's designed to have weight added/removed- only the pre-weighted ones.

And again- it's not a bad thing- it's just... it's not a barbell- I was mostly just more confused.

Body Pump is hardly cardio .... if you think it is, you are doing it wrong.

Cardio is spin class ... there is a huge difference between the two.

I have seen good changes from Body Pump.

and we are back to the top.
yes yes it is... it's significantly more in the "cardio" camp- than the strength camp.

If you think strength training is body pump- you're doing strength training wrong.

"good changes" from something doesn't make it something it's not.

I did the body pump class at my gym once, but it did use a very light (I think it was plastic and maybe weighed 5 lbs) bar, and plastic weights of various sizes. They run those classes in the basketball court at my gym and there's a stack of these bars, collars and a couple of racks of the weights for them.

Heh, the actual, licensed version of BodyPump uses non-pre-loaded barbells and plates.

So I guess my kettlebells are pure cardio, too, huh? :happy:

Depends on how you are using them (rep/weight wise) and your progression with them.

I think part of the problem is in the terms below. I think some are saying if it's aerobic, it doesn't count as strength/resistance?

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Health_Letter/2008/September/Glossary-of-exercise-terms

Aerobic vs. anaerobic exercise

Exercise falls into two general categories: aerobic and anaerobic. Aerobic exercise is muscle movement that uses oxygen to burn both carbohydrates and fats to produce energy, while anaerobic exercise is muscle movement that does not require oxygen and only burns carbohydrates to produce energy.

In practice, aerobic exercise means activities such as walking, bicycling or swimming that temporarily increase your heart rate and respiration. Aerobic exercise (also known as cardiovascular exercise) builds your endurance.

Anaerobic exercise typically means activities such as weightlifting and push-ups and sit-ups, which builds muscle and physical strength through short bursts of strenuous activity. An ideal exercise program should include both aerobic and anaerobic exercise.

Endurance training vs. strength (or resistance) training

These terms correlate with aerobic and anaerobic exercise -- aerobic exercise builds endurance and anaerobic exercise builds strength. Since strength training often involves using muscles to work against the force of weights, it’s also known as resistance training. Strength training boosts the amount of muscle in your body by making your muscles work harder than they’re used to.

Another important difference is that endurance training should be done on most days, but strength training should be performed only two or three times a week, in order to give your muscles time to recover.

---

Googling around for more info for my own benefit on anaerobic vs. aerobic I ran across this study below. Weird that people study BodyPump. I wonder if Les Mills funds the studies or something.

http://www.fpjournal.org.br/painel/arquivos/1972-6_Bodypump_Rev2_2003_Ingles.pdf

Conclusion: Body pump provides a low stimulus to improve aerobic capacity and should not be used as the only
method of cardiovascular exercise. It also produces a signifi cant caloric expenditure and may also provide other fi tness benefi ts such as muscular body mass increase and maintenance of body composition.

For the record, I don't do this style (well, rarely) and am taking nothing 'to heart'. It's slow at work and it's an interesting topic.

And it's good to show that half the people that give advice on something didn't even know what it is.

Have a nice weekend. :drinker:

I don't know exactly what heroine is but I know it's bad for me.

I'm sure the dealer would tell you that's it fine for your health though.