An argument with a person in shape = no way to win
Replies
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Eh, to each their own. I know what works for me and I hate it when people try to micromanage my diet. It honestly wasn't even worth arguing with this person, I have family that is like this too.0
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So here's the thing, I did everything the exact opposite of what he says. I not only lost all the weight but have kept it off for over 7 years now. A calorie is a calorie, it can't tell time
I figure that as long as someone is eating healthy and creating the deficit needed to lose weight who cares when they eat. Weight loss is not hard but over thinking it will certainly make it that way!
Thank you for this! Seriously, this is what I was thinking.0 -
He has no clue what is will be like when his metabolism slow's in a few years!! I'd like to see how much he know's then!!0
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I go to the gym for an hour and a half and this thread degrades into pseudoscience and utter nonsense. Rather then reply to all the derp comments that were made I'll simply summerize...
Thank you. Concisely put.0 -
I have lost weight, but I am not to my full potential yet. I have many people who are LARGER than me preach how to get it done. Of course, they fall right for gimmicks and "quick fix" tools.
I have basically just learnt to keep my methods to myself. I will reveal them when I complete my weight loss of 100 lbs. Often people discredit what I am doing even though I am physical proof of an effective method. I dont care what other people do to lose weight, I dont care if they hear me or not.0 -
I would have turned the tables on him and challenge him to eat 3000 calories a day during the times he clainms eating would be fine and see if he gains weight.
LOL, good one!0 -
I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)
I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.
I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.
You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.
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I personally don't agree that a calorie is calorie- 3000 calories of veggies will be better for you then 3000 calories in candy. So no!, a calorie isn't a calorie. You also made mention that everyone is different... very true everyone is different which more so supports the fact that a calorie is not calorie. 100 calories in carbs has a different effect/reaction on your body than 100 calories of protein same goes with fats... again a calorie isn't a calorie! ....
Nice strawman....0 -
OP: Some fights just aren't worth having. Sometimes there are "more optimal" ways of doing things, but if what you are doing is working there's not much sense in fighting about it with people that don't have to live with the consequences of the choices.
Incredibly smart statement. 0 -
What is rabbit food? Fresh fruits and veggies?
If you wanted to argue with me that a calorie is a calorie, then I would take issue as well. Since I don't think it is. And yes, I have studied this and know a little ( a lot) about biochemistry. In general, yes, you should consume less calories than you expend. But not all calories are created equal. If you consume 100 calories from protein, only 80-70 calories actually hit your liver. If you eat 100 calories from fat or carbs, 85-95 calories will enter the liver to be metabolized. The more calories that enter the liver equals more fat cells.
Nearly 100% of calories from fructose enters the liver! while only 20% of calories from glucose enters the liver.
A calorie is not a calorie.
Calories in vs calories out... Yes. But depending on where you get your calories it may or may not work out very well for you.
And as a scientist, you should know that a unit of measurement is what it is. Ergo, a calorie IS a calorie.
However, the point that you make can be condensed thus: The body is not a bomb calorimiter.
100% of your food intake is not utilised as energy, either kinetic or stored as fat - the efficiency of your body in utilising food is known as FCR (feed conversion ratio) which will vary depending on the nutrient composition of the food and the animal ingesting it.
Therefore, what works for one person will not always work for another, and its probably best just to do what works for you.0 -
Faaaaaahkem.0
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You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Yep. Until you've actually done it, it's just blowing smoke.
That's the reality.0 -
When I have lost weight, I have just got on with it and kept quiet until someone says something. Then I tell them what I have been doing. In my experience, until then you are just the poor sap in the corner who knows nothing because you don't have the evidence. There are a million people out there with an opinion on what you should be doing, and there is more than 1 way of skinning a cat. If it works for you (and MFP clearly does work for you), then GREAT!! Revenge is a dish best served cold!!!0
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This is why I avoid talking about health and fitness at work. The myths are too embedded in people's minds.
^Dude, seriously
It's the first rule of fitclub...
And what's the second rule?
Ha! Have Brad Pitts body before... life.0 -
My boss believes every broscience theory and medical conspiracy that comes down the pike. My department has a "party" for everyone's birthday and as my boss doles out the dessert, she lectures on the evil of sugars and processed food, all while indulging as much or more than the rest of us. Often during these gatherings, my coworkers get into discussions about food and exercise that make me grit my teeth, but I don't say one word. It's just not worth it. The one time I spoke up is when a discussion started about how only table sugar affects diabetics. That was just too ignorant to let pass.
As for myself, I haven't eliminated one thing from my diet. I truly eat what I want. I just eat a little less and have added exercise back into my life. I don't care what anyone else does. I'm losing weight and my health markers are excellent. In the time that I've lost 20 pounds, my boss has lost nothing and continues to bounce from fad to fad. Not my problem.0 -
a calorie is a calorie no matter what time you eat it, you could not eat all day long then eat all of your calories in one big meal right before you go to bed and still lose the exact same amount of weight.0
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Not true.Nutrient timing and or eating breakfast is largely irrelevant for most people especially if your goal is simple weight loss/muscle retention
In my blog post on 10JUN14 I discussed some studies about weight loss, including these which support the idea that eating a large breakfast and small dinner (most calories by noon) causes people to lose more weight (and improve other health markers more) than the usual American eating habit of a tiny breakfast & large dinner.
"Breakfast is associated with lower body weight ... "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24898236
This study compared eating a small breakfast, medium lunch, and large dinner, [200, 500, 700 cal]
with eating a large breakfast, medium lunch, and small dinner [700, 500, 200 cal].
"The [large breakfast] group showed greater weight loss and waist circumference reduction ... fasting glucose, insulin [&] triglycerides ... decreased significantly to a greater extent in the [large breakfast] group."
In addition, hunger was less and satiety was greater.
Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23512957
Full text:
http://genetics.doctorsonly.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Jakubowicz-at-al-Obesity-2013-oby20460.pdf
"subjects assigned to high caloric intake during breakfast lost significantly more weight than those assigned to high caloric intake during the dinner"
Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24467926
Full text: http://www.tradewindsports.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Nutrient-Timing-and-Obesity-2014.pdf
"data suggest that a low-calorie Mediterranean diet with a higher amount of calories in the first part of the day could establish a greater reduction in fat mass and improved insulin sensitivity than a typical daily diet."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24809437
O.M.G. - I just did an audio transcript for someone who tries to bill himself as a financial advisor of sorts, as well as a parenting expert... all the while his main source of income is food stamps & tax refunds, his family is on medicaid for "healthcare", etc.I don't take financial advice from poor people, either
Oh, and he's caused at least 8 children that I know of, despite his wife having a couple heart conditions (so each pregnancy & delivery risks her life). That doesn't make him a parenting expert, it makes him a "creating babies" expert.
Irony.He has no clue what is will be like when his metabolism slow's in a few years!! I'd like to see how much he know's then
(Maybe he'll know basic English & the proper use of the apostrophe? Maybe he already does?)
Again, you're mixing your arguments.a calorie is a calorie no matter what time you eat it, you could not eat all day long then eat all of your calories in one big meal right before you go to bed and still lose the exact same amount of weight
Yes, an inch is an inch and a calorie is a calorie.
And no, you can't do the "OMAD" eating disorder diet and be healthy.0 -
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.
Yes and it was with my mom who isn't even thin. :indifferent: She still insists that I'm wrong and sometimes implies I must be a freak of nature. I hear all sorts of things that aren't true from her, but she is stubborn. Eventually she might come around, who knows.0 -
I don't know the science behind it as I am not an expert, but I was told that certain food types take more energy to burn, so if you were to eat 1000 calories of protein your body would have to work harder to digest the proteins than if you ate 1000 calories of carbs. When I was dieting last year (before I fell of the wagon) I found using this idea helped me loose weight and I felt a lot better.0
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When I encounter people like that I just agree to disagree, they do what works for them, I do what works for me, I don't need to be right 0
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Seriously though.
99% of people don't really care.
People who do care already have a strong opinion on it. Nothing you say will have any impact on that.
At the end of the day, what does it matter what other people think about it? If someone thinks that unicorn poop is their secret weapon in getting and staying thin, what effect really does that have on your life?
Places like mfp exist for this kind of thing. Collect together a like-minded band of nutters who share your vision (also known as a FL) and then get to work and lose some weight. Don't bore people ****less in reallife. Because, and I can't stress this enough, nobody really gives a ****.0 -
I haven't read all the replies, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating what you've already been told.I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)
I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.
I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.
You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.
There might be no way of winning this argument today but you could do exactly as he asked. Keep doing what you know to work; continue the fantastic progress you're making. It's not an instant win but you can do it whilst achieving your goals and perhaps he'll learn something in the process.0 -
Use it to fuel your motivation and lose weight bro, then say I told you so
Win situation buddy0 -
I recent had a similar argument with my husband he said I could never have a six pack/ low BF% because genetics and my age are against me. He said all the female members of my family are overweight and no matter what I did I couldn't change that. I tried to point out that the majority of my family eat very badly and take no exercise but he wouldn't listen he said I was fighting a losing battle. The only thing to be done is prove him wrong so now I am on a mission to prove him wrong, I like a challenge.0
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You have to find an appropriate punishment for him though
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Opinions are like *kitten*. Everyone's got one, and no one wants to look at the other guy's.
If I've learned anything in the 50+ years I've been above ground, is that there is always some bogeyman food or behavior and some ultra righteous food or behavior, both of which eventually turn out to be no better and no worse than any typical food or behavior.
Just stick with what works for you and move on.0 -
Not true.Nutrient timing and or eating breakfast is largely irrelevant for most people especially if your goal is simple weight loss/muscle retention
In my blog post on 10JUN14 I discussed some studies about weight loss, including these which support the idea that eating a large breakfast and small dinner (most calories by noon) causes people to lose more weight (and improve other health markers more) than the usual American eating habit of a tiny breakfast & large dinner.
"Breakfast is associated with lower body weight ... "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24898236
This study compared eating a small breakfast, medium lunch, and large dinner, [200, 500, 700 cal]
with eating a large breakfast, medium lunch, and small dinner [700, 500, 200 cal].
"The [large breakfast] group showed greater weight loss and waist circumference reduction ... fasting glucose, insulin [&] triglycerides ... decreased significantly to a greater extent in the [large breakfast] group."
In addition, hunger was less and satiety was greater.
Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23512957
Full text:
http://genetics.doctorsonly.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Jakubowicz-at-al-Obesity-2013-oby20460.pdf
"subjects assigned to high caloric intake during breakfast lost significantly more weight than those assigned to high caloric intake during the dinner"
Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24467926
Full text: http://www.tradewindsports.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Nutrient-Timing-and-Obesity-2014.pdf
"data suggest that a low-calorie Mediterranean diet with a higher amount of calories in the first part of the day could establish a greater reduction in fat mass and improved insulin sensitivity than a typical daily diet."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24809437
O.M.G. - I just did an audio transcript for someone who tries to bill himself as a financial advisor of sorts, as well as a parenting expert... all the while his main source of income is food stamps & tax refunds, his family is on medicaid for "healthcare", etc.I don't take financial advice from poor people, either
Oh, and he's caused at least 8 children that I know of, despite his wife having a couple heart conditions (so each pregnancy & delivery risks her life). That doesn't make him a parenting expert, it makes him a "creating babies" expert.
Irony.He has no clue what is will be like when his metabolism slow's in a few years!! I'd like to see how much he know's then
(Maybe he'll know basic English & the proper use of the apostrophe? Maybe he already does?)
Again, you're mixing your arguments.a calorie is a calorie no matter what time you eat it, you could not eat all day long then eat all of your calories in one big meal right before you go to bed and still lose the exact same amount of weight
Yes, an inch is an inch and a calorie is a calorie.
And no, you can't do the "OMAD" eating disorder diet and be healthy.
I looked at that study and I really can't see how they made sure the people were compliant to the given diet apart from asking them "Hey, you didn't eat anything we didn't tell you to, right?" I'm not even overweight and if I were to be given a 200 calorie breakfast I would be hungry as hell for a good while.
What I'm trying to say is that the non-compliance within that group was probably a lot higher than the participants admitted.
Which would also explain that they started to gain weight again at the end which should be pretty much impossible on a 1400 calorie diet like they were supposed to eat.0 -
OP I dont really care if you were right or not - and neither does your co worker.
You are right - it is an unwinnable argument - not because you are fat and he is thin - but because nobody except you actually cares about it.
Learn from this - let other peoples incorrect opinions drift over your head, smile, nod and move on.
Do not get involved in "prove who is right' conversations
Mind you, if you make sweeping statement like "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you", you might find people arguing with you.0 -
Gonna be hard to find since it's months old and we get about a dozen threads about the same topics weekly.
But in the end, since you will always get a little less calories than are in the food, then for weight loss it really doesn't matter. Take the numbers that are on the package and you're guaranteed to get less than that, no matter what they're made up of. Although I have to say I would be surprised if the numbers from the FDA weren't normalized to account for that if it can actually be as low as 20% in fructose.
They don't.
Its one of the reasons why "people who eat more fiber lose more weight" is actually true. Fiber is largely undigested and goes straight out your body, but its still counted as a carb with 4 calories /gram. If you are eating 30 grams of fiber / day, about 120 calories you consumed are actually negligible.
I was reading a news story about some doctors who were studying this. I really hope they do not alter food labels. Figuring out how many calories to eat/day is already a headache. Can you imagine how much it would change if suddenly the calories labeled were only the calories our bodies digest and don't waste?0 -
Mind you, if you make sweeping statement like "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you", you might find people arguing with you.
From the "sweet tooth's" in the crowd, no doubt.0
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