Re-Thinking Protein

There have been study after study that have found that the protein requirements for athletes are far lower than what broscience tells you.

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7550257

And yet, we keep hearing that we need to stuff ourselves with protein, that we need at least 1g per lb. of lean body mass, etc. And it's just not true.

This is just straight science, but people hate science.

I eat meat. Only because I (a) like it and (b) it's easier than trying to get my protein requirements from all plant-based sources. But I have used the lower protein guidelines the past year, and it's fact. The science backs it up, and so does the anecdotal evidence.

You need about half the protein that you think you do. And you'll still build muscle just fine.

The author's mistake, IMO, is his flippant disregard for science, and not linking to studies to back up his claims. The article is lame. His point is not. But I understand people wanting to shoot the message because the messenger is a dork and phrased the message poorly.

Maybe it's because I have a background in trying to apply the scientific method to problems and finding a systematic answer instead of relying on anecdote but I thought it was a rather disappointing article. It really lacked any meat and potatoes (pun intended).

The summary is basically, meat as a source of protein is engrained as a result of marketing by all these evil corporations. I won't site any research to back this up. I'll give some anecdotal evidence that it works (i.e. I am convinced it works for me). Here are a handful of other successful athletes who practice a vegan diet as well.

An obese guy could have just as easily wrote an article that says, I have 50+ pounds to lose, I don't exercise and I eat in a manner that the evil medical establishment and diet industry would describe as crap. I do not have heart disease or other ailments and I personally believe I am alive today and thriving as a result of my lifestyle. Others argue that I am diluted because it is so engrained in their minds from the propaganda of these big businesses. Here are a handful of other perfectly healthy couch potatoes as further evidence that you should live like I do.

The point I wanted to make is that you can lead a strong healthy life-style without meat and without the excessively high amounts of protein that the meat producers want you to believe you need. His article was anecdotal...it never professed to be scholarly. It was based upon his own personal experience... and if you clicked on the links you would see success stories by all types of people and athletes, not just ultra-runners. His approach was not inflammatory or aggressive. In fact, I liked the fact that he recognized this issue between meat-eaters and plant-eaters has taken on the same incendiary characteristics as politics and religion. Although, I find this topic to actually be worthwhile as opposed to the other two,

I was not interested in stirring up arguments, but to me, the ability and willingness to explore alternatives to what is passed off as "gospel truth" by the food industry can be a healthy, wealthy and wise exercise.

Edited for grammar and skipped words.

Did we read the same article?

Despite the “butter is back” hysteria that recently graced the cover of TIME magazine, the best medical science establishes beyond reproach that both casein and whey contribute materially to degenerative disease. A family of proteins found in milk, casein has been linked to the onset of a variety of diseases, including cancer. And whey is nothing more than a highly processed, low-grade discard of cheese production — another diabolical stroke of genius courtesy of the dairy industry that created a zillion-dollar business out of stuff previously tossed in the garbage.

Claiming whey and casein contribute to degenerative disease isn't inflammatory? Casein is linked to the onset of cancer? Whey is the result of the greedy diabolical dairy industry? And not one citation to support these claims?

Scientific evidence aside, let's just use some common knowledge on this one. We've all heard the nursery rhyme "Little Miss Muffet" who was eating, that's right, curds and whey. That rhyme has been around for well over a century - consuming whey is nothing new. The form in which we consume it may have changed, as manner of consumption for some foods has changed over time, but it's not like no one ever heard of whey before people started putting it in tubs in health food stores. Claiming that it's some big corporate conspiracy is just tinfoil-hattery at its finest.

There have been study after study that have found that the protein requirements for athletes are far lower than what broscience tells you.

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7550257

And yet, we keep hearing that we need to stuff ourselves with protein, that we need at least 1g per lb. of lean body mass, etc. And it's just not true.

This is just straight science, but people hate science.

I eat meat. Only because I (a) like it and (b) it's easier than trying to get my protein requirements from all plant-based sources. But I have used the lower protein guidelines the past year, and it's fact. The science backs it up, and so does the anecdotal evidence.

You need about half the protein that you think you do. And you'll still build muscle just fine.

The author's mistake, IMO, is his flippant disregard for science, and not linking to studies to back up his claims. The article is lame. His point is not. But I understand people wanting to shoot the message because the messenger is a dork and phrased the message poorly.

I do agree that many people overconsume protein, but you should re-read that article you're citing. They're talking about g/lb of body mass; you're talking about g/lb of LBM. Those are different units. 0.82g/lb of body weight probably works out to 1g/lb of LBM, if not more, so they aren't really dispelling the statement you're suggesting they are. Alan Aragon's recommendation of ~1g / lb of your goal weight is inline with this advice as well. For anyone educated on the subject, they don't need half of what they think they need for optimal results; they need what they think they need.

If you want the scientific studies, read Eat to Live.

The last vegan-evangelist thread I recall seemed to involve people proclaiming about how we aren't baby cows, and yet now I'm supposed to not worry about protein because cows don't? So confusing.

Also, my cat is on a high protein, low carb diet. So when I start eating like a cow, should he? I'm assuming no.

1kg of chicken per day crew checking in

Who are these vegan strength athletes you speak of? The only guy I've heard of is Frank medrano and I wouldn't call bar calisthenics an actual strength sport (compared to say powerlifting/strongman/oly lifting)

NEVER trust an article without research stating something like this...

With respect to athletes, to my knowledge no scientific study has ever shown that consumption of protein beyond the RDA-advised minimum (10 percent of daily calories) stimulates additional muscle growth or expedites physiological repair induced by exercise stress.

when you can find a meta analysis of many studies which directly refute the above claim such as...

http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-10-53.pdf

which clearly shows an advantage to additional protein when training...

Where do cows get their protein? From the plants they eat. It stands to reason the same can be true for humans. It is a matter of preference, imho. As I stated, I lived as a raw vegan for over a year. It wasn't the protein I missed so much, it was the cooked foods. The meat just slipped back in but I'm thinking seriously of going back to vegan, vegetarian or pescatarian. I felt better physically and emotionally when I did not eat meat.

My boss has several beautiful Arabian horses that predominantly eat grass and yet they're incredibly muscular and lean, and I'd generally consider them pretty shredded. However, if I go out and eat nothing but grass, I would simply die. Just because animals eat a certain way doesn't mean that you can eat that way and expect the same results, and if that's your reason for going vegan, you really should rethink your plan.

ROFL umm no, that isn't my reason for thinking of returning to the vegan lifestyle. Like I said, I felt better when I did not eat meat. And yes, you CAN get all the protein you need from a plant based diet. I didn't say I was going to go out and eat grass lol. I said that it stands to reason that if animals can get their protein from a plant based diet then so could humans.

There are so many people on these forums who are simply looking to nit pick. It is so sad to me that someone can't post an article without opening a whole can of stinky worms. Can't we all just get along??? lol

Get along with people who lack basic reasoning skills? I think not.