Why you SHOULDN'T count calories
Replies
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I do not agree. It is not my job to look for anything. When I read the book a few years ago, I wanted to know more and did additional research and not only read up on it but used how I felt to come to a conclusion. I was actually seeing a neurologist for brain fog and memory loss and wondering why my world was crumpling. I did the research for myself and my own individual case. If you want to know whether or not something is for you.. you should take what the poster says and run with it. That's what I would do. If I saw a forum post and you felt strongly about something that I'm unsure of, I would go digging for more answers elsewhere. If you provide your source, good for you.. but I'd also like to find some info on it else where and read up on the differing opinions on the topic and then formulate my own conclusion. I don't ask you to do the work for me. Only if you want to. :happy:
So I think a key point that you may be missing here, is that what you do when you see something that interests you is this, according to your statement above: you do additional research on it and read up on it and use how you feel to come to a conclusion. Now where you choose to accept your additional research from, may not be the most scientifically sound sources, if you are reading books on Amazon which are obviously targeting a particular group to convey a message and ultimately make a profit. But still, kudos to you for your efforts to do some additional research about what you read online before taking something at face value. There is a whole other group of people though, many of the casual forum readers, who DO NOT even go as far as you have to do additional research. Those people, take things they read online from casual internet posters as the gospel truth. They would read your story and your results, which is anecdotal evidence at best, and say, "this woman got rid of her brain fog because she cut out diet soda, so she's right, aspartame is bad for us, I can't ever drink a diet soda again"
The people who are questioning you, asking for the scientific studies from peer reviewed sources, are not asking you that because they need to do more research and they want you to do their homework for them. They've already done that. What they are trying to do is point out to the casual readers, that you don't have scientific studies to back up your claims, only anecdotal evidence, in the hopes that the casual reader DOES follow through and read the studies and realize that there is no scientific proof that Aspartame or other artificial sweeteners are harmful to your health. While you may see that as cyber bullying, I see that as being very helpful in trying to educate others by pointing out the logical fallacy in your reasoning.
OK, I see your point. That's unfortunate then, if folks don't look into things for themselves. I've learned that the hard way. Even our doctors do it. "Scientific proof" is all well and good if it hasn't been tampered with. I believe a poster shouted out that I was into conspiracy theories, but if I am so be it because I don't think they are the end all be all. It's also on how you feel. Here's a personal experience. I took the Gardasil shot. Within a few days after my final shot, I felt pain all over my body. I was then shortly diagnosed with neuropathy (nerve damage). Gardasil refuses to say this is one of the side effects. If you say you are suffering from anything other than temporary pain at the injection site and feeling faint shortly after the shot, your symptoms have nothing to do with the drug, but it's funny how they claimed there were no reports of neuropathy with this drug but you find it all over the internet and I'm one of them. Because of my personal situation with this.. I do value people's personal experiences over these so called clinical studies that may be leaving out variables to failing to mention certain things. After all, with these case studies they are also relying on how people feel over all. Why not just go straight to the source. The people. So, yes.. I got some of my brain back after eliminating diet soda. If you want to eliminate it due to that reason alone, you may or not be doing yourself a favor, but will it harm you to take it away.. certainly not! OK that was my last response. I just didn't want to ignore your post.0 -
I think most people can get away with not counting calories if they stick to whole, unprocessed foods, especially if those foods are primarily plant based. I don't say that because I think you can get away with eating 6,000 calories of spinach daily and not gain weight. I say it because by sticking to unprocessed food, you're just not going to want to eat as much. Your calories will be limited by lack of desire for more of the same old boring stuff.
I managed to gain weigh on whole foods. (I'm a long-time proponent of whole foods because I like to cook and have annoying foodie tendencies, not for weight loss purposes, although it does make it easier when one wants to convert to a lower calorie diet.) This is the problem with the "clean" or "whole foods" thing--or what I used to think of as "natural" (not that I was any more consistent in what that meant than anyone here). I don't see why plenty of fattier cuts of meat or, say, butter or blue cheese or olive oil wouldn't be "clean" under the usual definitions, and veggies and potatoes roasted with a whole chicken are both delicious and not particularly low cal, and plenty of other cuts of meat (again) far higher calorie. And then one gets into the debate about homemade desserts, which I suppose may not be "clean," under the definitions of some, but it's not entirely clear why not.
For the record I ate plenty of vegetables even when I was getting fat eating "clean" foods, which IME plenty of "clean" proponents here don't actually do, since the definition revolves around not eating stuff, not getting a good balanced diet.
Being "processed" does not make a food not nutrient dense or problematic from a weight loss standpoint or bad for you. (I again point to the most common processed foods I eat--greek yogurt and cottage cheese.) If what people dislike are processed foods that also happen to be high in calories and have high sugar or salt contents (people seem to like to claim that "processed" foods are fatty, salty, and sugary, but my Fage 0% plain isn't, but for the lactose, of course), maybe they should be more specific and explain why, say, homemade potato chips with lots of salt are somehow exempted from the condemnation.
Now, could I have eaten whole foods exclusively without gaining weight (or even losing it)? Sure, but I could also eat the way I do now (including some diet soda, yogurt, AND chocolate) and lose. The way my mind works I just find it easier and more entertaining to count, and part of that is making sure my diet is overall balanced and that I don't undereat. I probably don't eat much differently than if I wasn't counting, though. And again, eating a healthy diet needs to be about much more than excluding foods that people happen to demonize.0 -
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My husband doesn't count calories. He's never been overweight, either. He doesn't eat "clean" or whatever. He eats what he wants, when he wants and until he doesn't want any more. Sometimes that means one bite of a candy bar, another time it might mean large portion seconds for a meal.
He's not a special food-processing machine... he just eats at maintenance level and always has.
I have no idea what any of this has to do with the title.
I guess every body is different and some lucky, I started counting calories and I see a huge difference. Its like when I go to the store mentally I am putting together a meal that is within my calorie range, I have never done this before.
GO SAINTS!!! The fumble, yikes. Laissez les bons temps rouler!!0 -
It's probably the most studied food additive. But that won't sway the true believers and wellness coaches.
Aspartame is fine in doses well under the ADI.
Agreed.
Sadly you can't fight faith with facts...0 -
You did not politely and genuinely want to learn from her source, you wanted blood. Stop kidding around.
Of course people genuinely want to learn. The poster continuously refuses to show proof to back up her claims. Why is that so hard for you to understand?0 -
If you would like proof and it's burning you inside, it's your job to dig.
Not exactly. The burden of proof is on the person or persons making the wild claims, which in this case is you... sorry.0 -
Gurl, we need to be makin that paper.Ahh this thread delivered.
My favourite post:Let's be real honest here, the folks who begged for links wanted to see her fall. You did not politely and genuinely want to learn from her source, you wanted blood. Stop kidding around. If she provided you with a link, you would have told her that she doesn't have a credible source. How are you so sure that you're source is providing the full truth? They're probably funded by diet soda companies and sugar-free gum companies attempting to prove it's OK and will not kill you right away.
I always love it when people take the phrase "please provide reputable evidence for your claims" as a sign of bullying (LOL call me when you've actually been bullied).
Guess what, if you can't prove your claims in some way, they're useless, a fart in the breeze.
Also, how can I get on the payroll of Big Sugar Free Gum Company? I chew a lot of that stuff. Mama needs her fix.
This is us ^^^
....and Big Gum will be all like:
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It's not rocket science. If you aren't going to count calories don't eat a lot of calorie dense foods. It's easier to do if you eat a lot of vegetables and some good protein sources. Everybody has to make everything so complex0
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I think counting calories is something I personally need to do, until downloading mfp I had no idea how many calories I was having. Last week I counted them (not focusing on eating healthy) and even on a day that I didn't think I was eating that bad, I was consuming way over what I should be. It was definitely an eye opener for me. I can't imagine counting them forever though, but definitely will be doing it til I get the hang of what and how much I should be eating daily. :happy:0
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Ahh this thread delivered.
My favourite post:Let's be real honest here, the folks who begged for links wanted to see her fall. You did not politely and genuinely want to learn from her source, you wanted blood. Stop kidding around. If she provided you with a link, you would have told her that she doesn't have a credible source. How are you so sure that you're source is providing the full truth? They're probably funded by diet soda companies and sugar-free gum companies attempting to prove it's OK and will not kill you right away.
I always love it when people take the phrase "please provide reputable evidence for your claims" as a sign of bullying (LOL call me when you've actually been bullied).
Guess what, if you can't prove your claims in some way, they're useless, a fart in the breeze.
Also, how can I get on the payroll of Big Sugar Free Gum Company? I chew a lot of that stuff. Mama needs her fix.
I was bullied A LOT in college then.0 -
OMG I was just about to make a post about how I just started counting calories. My old way of dieting was leaving me very hungry and also not as energized. When I started counting calories which was today, I became more energized and fuller because the food I was eating was within my calorie intake. I have 2670 calories to intake and I have only eaten up to 1610 and still feel great.
As for bad foods with good calories rate is not good to eat because of the added ingredients that are in them which make them hard to burn off.0 -
not ciggerettes lol natural plants
durrr
Do you grow them and process them yourself? Cigarettes started out as "natural plants" Natural doesn't mean healthy, either.0 -
I decided to pull these two quickly because some of you guys are big babies. I should be sleeping or getting ready for work tomorrow and here I am pulling case studies regarding aspartame. You know what, drink diet soda until your heart is content. I feel bad for humanity. So, heartless and I'm actually disgusted with this thread to be quite honest. :brokenheart: Please do, though... drink away.. :drinker:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684524
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25142179
I'm not going to read anymore of these. Most of these damn studies don't even include humans. Just freaking use yourself as an example or your peers. I find that much better sometimes. Eliminate it from your diet.. and then re-introduce sometime in the future. If you feel like crap immediately or sometime in the near future, it's bad. If you're fine, then go right ahead and enjoy. It's your body, not mine.0 -
I decided to pull these two quickly because some of you guys are big babies. I should be sleeping or getting ready for work tomorrow and here I am pulling case studies regarding aspartame. You know what, drink diet soda until your heart is content. I feel bad for humanity. So, heartless and I'm actually disgusted with this thread to be quite honest. :brokenheart: Please do, though... drink away.. :drinker:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684524
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25142179
I'm not going to read anymore of these. Most of these damn studies don't even include humans. Just freaking use yourself as an example or your peers. I find that much better sometimes. Eliminate it from your diet.. and then re-introduce sometime in the future. If you feel like crap immediately or sometime in the near future, it's bad. If you're fine, then go right ahead and enjoy. It's your body, not mine.
So you are complaining about people supposedly"bullying" people because they ask for studies then you turn around and call people babies and heartless for just wanting peer reviewed studies to learn where others are coming from or just wanting facts rather than relying on possible myths/fear mongering statements? I see. Your method of holding discussions that contain dissenting opinions is....interesting....0 -
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I decided to pull these two quickly because some of you guys are big babies. I should be sleeping or getting ready for work tomorrow and here I am pulling case studies regarding aspartame. You know what, drink diet soda until your heart is content. I feel bad for humanity. So, heartless and I'm actually disgusted with this thread to be quite honest. :brokenheart: Please do, though... drink away.. :drinker:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684524
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25142179
I'm not going to read anymore of these. Most of these damn studies don't even include humans. Just freaking use yourself as an example or your peers. I find that much better sometimes. Eliminate it from your diet.. and then re-introduce sometime in the future. If you feel like crap immediately or sometime in the near future, it's bad. If you're fine, then go right ahead and enjoy. It's your body, not mine.
So you are complaining about people supposedly"bullying" people because they ask for studies then you turn around and call people babies for wanting facts/peer reviewed studies? I see. Your method of holding discussions that contain dissenting opinions is....interesting....
Ha! You folks are so predictable! How did I know you would try to attack me some other way after I've provided you with research supporting my claim?! If you paid attention to the thread you would have noticed that I did not initially call it bullying. One of your counterparts mentioned it to be like bullying first! I piggy-backed off of that. Mentioning the way in which you solicited the research. Not the mere fact that you asked. Then jumping on my back to provide something. You so easily forget that the "bullying" referred to wasn't against me. A number of you asked this one girl for research that you knew she did not have. It only took one person to ask, but everyone wanted to jump in to make her feel stupid. TAKE THE RESEARCH AND GO! Don't attempt to attack me. It's very childish.0 -
I decided to pull these two quickly because some of you guys are big babies. I should be sleeping or getting ready for work tomorrow and here I am pulling case studies regarding aspartame. You know what, drink diet soda until your heart is content. I feel bad for humanity. So, heartless and I'm actually disgusted with this thread to be quite honest. :brokenheart: Please do, though... drink away.. :drinker:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684524
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25142179
I'm not going to read anymore of these. Most of these damn studies don't even include humans. Just freaking use yourself as an example or your peers. I find that much better sometimes. Eliminate it from your diet.. and then re-introduce sometime in the future. If you feel like crap immediately or sometime in the near future, it's bad. If you're fine, then go right ahead and enjoy. It's your body, not mine.
So you are complaining about people supposedly"bullying" people because they ask for studies then you turn around and call people babies for wanting facts/peer reviewed studies? I see. Your method of holding discussions that contain dissenting opinions is....interesting....
Ha! You folks are so predictable! How did I know you would try to attack me some other way after I've provided you with research supporting my claim?! If you paid attention to the thread you would have noticed that I did not initially call it bullying. One of your counterparts mentioned it to be like bullying first! I piggy-backed off of that. Mentioning the way in which you solicited the research. Not the mere fact that you asked. Then jumping on my back to provide something. You so easily forget that the "bullying" referred to wasn't against me. A number of you asked this one girl for research that you knew she did not have. It only took one person to ask, but everyone wanted to jump in to make her feel stupid. TAKE THE RESEARCH AND GO! Don't attempt to attack me. It's very childish.
You call people names, I point that out and yet I'm the one attacking.
Well. Okay then. Again..interesting.0 -
Lmao
i dont smoke lmao wtfi dont have a file of my research on hand at all times to help out people who get but hurt when you say something as common sense as 'putting harmful chemicals in your body is harmful' lmao. So if this concept upsets you then you are certainly free to ignore it if your interested then do your own research as well iv certainly done mine, 0cal chemicals lose to healthy calories everytime. No one can force you to be healthy but no need to get all but hurt
I haven't seen a single person here that is "but hurt" but you. They are only pointing out that there is zero scientific findings to back up your supposed research. That's why they asked for sources (and don't list Dr. Oz or you'll just get laughed out of the place). They are also pointing out that as someone who is denouncing "harmful chemicals" so much, you are a rather big hypocrite for smoking. I'm pretty sure drinking diet sodas don't give you cancer, but what do I know? I'm just another "but hurt" forum user (that doesn't actually drink diet sodas because they taste awful - give me Coke original any day!).
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I remember trying to lose weight by solely eating "clean foods". I stayed fat, lol.
It's really all about intake and output.
I agree with this completely. I even gained weight eating healthier - for a bit - until I started watching my calories. It's especially tough for a short woman to keep track of calories and make sure everything counts. It's so easy to have just a tad too much.0 -
Hmmm, I drink diet soda daily and I don't have any of those symptoms. ..guess I must be a special snowflake huh lollol people are very defensive of their diet sodas lmao no ones taking them away just pointing out how unhealthy they are you are still free to drink them calm your hormones
Please back this statement up with peer reviewed evidence.
Links...
What's wrong with you people?! Read a health book, please! I'm randomly jumping in here to stop the slaughter of the person who mentioned that diet soda is bad. My explanation will come from memory of books I have read that have, yes, cited their sources. Why is a cup of regular coke better than diet coke? It's better because it does not contain harmful sugar substitutes that is in it's zero calorie counterpart. Example of a harmful sugar substitute, you ask? Sure! ASPARTAME.
Aspartame is bad for you and don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise and hell yes, it is bad for you in any quantity. I don't even chew the bull sugar-free gum anymore and guess what?! Less gas, bloating, brain fog, diarrhea and all gone by eliminating gum with sorbitol and aspartame. How much you drink or chew will just slow down or speed up the "harmful" process. Aspartame, like MSG (everyone is afraid of MSG but not aspartame I see), is an exotoxin. Exotoxins cause degenerative effects on the brain and nervous system. It's effects are cumulative. You may feel fine at first, but will then notice neurological issues such as headaches, brain fog and early signs of dementia. Do you really want to suffer through that (if you aren't already) just because you want to save a few cals. How about don't drink it at all.. or save it for a special occasion to indulge in junk. Hey, we're human.. we like junk sometimes.. just throw away the "diet junk."
For the person who mentioned diet stuff is bad, it is helpful to know why before mentioning it on a controversial thread such as this one because there are jerks out there that will try to stomp on you and make you feel stupid. By yelling show a link blah blah blah.. they are trying to bury you. Just try to know at least some of the facts first. Diet soda is harmful towards your overall health.. I don't see how exactly it may hinder weight loss though. Just because you lose weight though, doesn't mean it's healthy.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1308408-why-aspartame-isn-t-scary
The reason people ask for links is to prove what you're spewing
hasn't been proven. Can you provide one of the sources, I mean it is pertinent to the conversation.mentioned that diet soda is bad. My explanation will
One of my favorite books is the Truth About Beauty by Kat James. She cites all of her sources in that book (which include case studies not articles written by people with no credibility). It's a great read and you are free to purchase on amazon, if you like. There are also a ton of other books out there.
Aside from that, put down the diet soda for some time and stop chewing sugar free gum and watch the magic. It's all about how YOUR body responds to things. Again, I dropped the gum containing sorbitol and aspartame and I have not had the scary brain fog symptoms, gas, bloating and diarrhea. Try it and see.0 -
Make it raaaaaiiiiin
Gurl, we need to be makin that paper.Ahh this thread delivered.
My favourite post:Let's be real honest here, the folks who begged for links wanted to see her fall. You did not politely and genuinely want to learn from her source, you wanted blood. Stop kidding around. If she provided you with a link, you would have told her that she doesn't have a credible source. How are you so sure that you're source is providing the full truth? They're probably funded by diet soda companies and sugar-free gum companies attempting to prove it's OK and will not kill you right away.
I always love it when people take the phrase "please provide reputable evidence for your claims" as a sign of bullying (LOL call me when you've actually been bullied).
Guess what, if you can't prove your claims in some way, they're useless, a fart in the breeze.
Also, how can I get on the payroll of Big Sugar Free Gum Company? I chew a lot of that stuff. Mama needs her fix.
This is us ^^^
....and Big Gum will be all like:0 -
You can gain weight eating "healthy" foods just as easily as "unhealthy" foods.
This^^0 -
It is true you can lose weight eating anything, whether its fruits or donuts, as long as you use more calories than you take in. But weight is not what people want to lose, it's fat. Excess carbs and sugers will be stored as fat and without proper protein intake you will be losing muscle not fat. In turn the number on the scale will go down but you will actually be in worse shape than you started.0
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I'll take the chocolate bar, thanks.
This
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i havent read the entire thread so i'm not sure if someone already mentioned sumo wrestlers. those guys only eat healthy clean food too0
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i havent read the entire thread so i'm not sure if someone already mentioned sumo wrestlers. those guys only eat healthy clean food too
And according to the United Nations Statistics Division, as of 2005 they had a life expectancy over 10 years shorter than the average Japanese and are more susceptible to diabetes, high blood pressure and heart failure.0 -
I think some people have a really unrealistic view of what 'healthy' is and it means something different to all of us. I believed I was eating good wholesome homecooking and it was mostly good for me... even after I ate the third/fourth/fifth plate :noway:
Whilst the free spirit idea of just winging it is fine for some, the others might need a bit of hard evidence to see what is going wrong in their diets and why they have creeped up in weight over the years and calorie counting is great for accountability if your approaching it with honesty.0 -
It is true you can lose weight eating anything, whether its fruits or donuts, as long as you use more calories than you take in. But weight is not what people want to lose, it's fat. Excess carbs and sugers will be stored as fat and without proper protein intake you will be losing muscle not fat. In turn the number on the scale will go down but you will actually be in worse shape than you started.
This takes the cake for biggest load of crap I've read all night.
I must be a freaking mutant then.
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There's a hugely popular book called "The Wheat Belly Diet." It cites tons of sources that claim that wheat (and other sources of gluten) is bad for you, toxic even.What's wrong with you people?! Read a health book, please! I'm randomly jumping in here to stop the slaughter of the person who mentioned that diet soda is bad. My explanation will come from memory of books I have read that have, yes, cited their sources. Why is a cup of regular coke better than diet coke? It's better because it does not contain harmful sugar substitutes that is in it's zero calorie counterpart. Example of a harmful sugar substitute, you ask? Sure! ASPARTAME.
Aspartame is bad for you and don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise and hell yes, it is bad for you in any quantity. I don't even chew the bull sugar-free gum anymore and guess what?! Less gas, bloating, brain fog, diarrhea and all gone by eliminating gum with sorbitol and aspartame. How much you drink or chew will just slow down or speed up the "harmful" process. Aspartame,
One of my favorite books is the Truth About Beauty by Kat James. She cites all of her sources in that book (which include case studies not articles written by people with no credibility). It's a great read and you are free to purchase on amazon, if you like. There are also a ton of other books out there.
Aside from that, put down the diet soda for some time and stop chewing sugar free gum and watch the magic. It's all about how YOUR body responds to things. Again, I dropped the gum containing sorbitol and aspartame and I have not had the scary brain fog symptoms, gas, bloating and diarrhea. Try it and see.
When I eat gluten, I have an awful reaction. I gain ten pounds of bloat overnight, I get sores in my mouth and on my skin, I get headaches and gas and my already severe pain gets worse and my joints throb and I get awful heartburn and my crap smells worse than bad - toxic, even.
Obviously, I feel better when I don't eat it.
My husband, on the other hand, has none of those symptoms. Most people I know don't.
There are also a crap ton of studies and longstanding scientific evidence that show that a diet rich in whole grains (Gasp! Wheat!) lowers cholesterol, aids digestion, and has a myriad of other health benefits.
In other words, just because someone who wanted to get people to stop eating gluten found some research that they molded to suit their own opinions, and just because *I* feel better when I avoid it, doesn't mean that it's actually toxic. There is significantly more evidence (and significantly more people) that show that gluten is safe for the general population.
Aspartame, sucralose, whatever is the same. If you get sick from consuming it, don't do it. There are many more people who don't get sick from it, and there is more evidence that says it's generally safe than evidence to the contrary.0
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